UQ-Ochsner 2022 Cohort

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caterwaiter

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Hey everyone! Applications are open for the UQ-Ochsner program to start in 2022!

In the event anyone has spoken with their admissions team: do we know if courses that satisfy their 2 new prerequisites can be in progress? Or do they need to be completed on transcripts in order to be considered? Thanks in advance!

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The UQ-O page on the university’s website say you have to have them completed by the time of enrollment, so if they’re in progress, I think syllabi or proof of enrollment would suffice!
 
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Hi everyone! I was considering applying to this program as well, but I was wondering about the gpa requirements. I have a 2.99 gpa due to some health and family struggles in college, but with an upward trend. Would they even consider me? I'm thinking about taking the mcat in either march or april, so I don't have those scores yet.
 
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Hi everyone! I was considering applying to this program as well, but I was wondering about the gpa requirements. I have a 2.99 gpa due to some health and family struggles in college, but with an upward trend. Would they even consider me? I'm thinking about taking the mcat in either march or april, so I don't have those scores yet.

hey i'd email uq admissions
 
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Just commenting to stay in the loop! Finished my initial app this last week, waiting to hear back for the official application.
 
Hi everyone! I was considering applying to this program as well, but I was wondering about the gpa requirements. I have a 2.99 gpa due to some health and family struggles in college, but with an upward trend. Would they even consider me? I'm thinking about taking the mcat in either march or april, so I don't have those scores yet.
I think once you've passed the minimum mark, which I believe is about 2.67, you will be fine. You will be ranked simply based on your overall GPA, MCAT, and interview scores.
 
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Just commenting to stay in the loop! Finished my initial app this last week, waiting to hear back for the official application.
So is this initial application just a citizenship/degree/GPA/MCAT screen before they send you another app for your personal statement/activities?
 
So is this initial application just a citizenship/degree/GPA/MCAT screen before they send you another app for your personal statement/activities?
Yup, but because there is no secondary app, you are offered an II if you meet requirements.
 
Hi everyone! I was considering applying to this program as well, but I was wondering about the gpa requirements. I have a 2.99 gpa due to some health and family struggles in college, but with an upward trend. Would they even consider me? I'm thinking about taking the mcat in either march or april, so I don't have those scores yet.
My undergraduate GPA was 2.79 and I was admitted this year (I was initially wait listed). I did a postbac but that was not factored into my GPA. I also got a 521 on the MCAT which I think helped offset my GPA so try to do as well as you can on that.

They're unlikely to care about upward trend/family issues because admissions are conducted by UQ and, like most Australian medical schools, they evaluate a set of discrete factors in isolation (GPA, MCAT, interview score) and make admissions decisions based on those factors alone. But as long as you meet the hurdle of a credit average (which is usually defined as 2.7/4) you might end up with a low GPA "score" but could make up for it with higher scores on the MCAT and interview criteria.

So is this initial application just a citizenship/degree/GPA/MCAT screen before they send you another app for your personal statement/activities?

With a couple exceptions, Australian medical schools don't care about your activities and won't ask for a personal statement. Just make sure you get your official transcripts over to the admissions team and follow up on them since they tend to be a bit slow and getting everything complete early does seem to give an advantage.
 
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Does anyone know how/if they weigh withdrawals? I have a 3.9 GPA and a decent MCAT (510), but I also have 2 Ws.
 
Does anyone know how/if they weigh withdrawals? I have a 3.9 GPA and a decent MCAT (510), but I also have 2 Ws.
With those stats assuming you've got all ECs and prereqs you're good for US schools both MD and DO if you apply correctly. Is there a specific reason you want to go to this program? It is a great opportunity to study in another country but there are other ways to get that experience without also being labelled as an IMG. It's worth it for some people definitely, but generally speaking if you can get into a US school then that's the better option.

But to answer your question, even if they counted Ws as 0/4 for the purpose of calculating your GPA you would still have a very competitive GPA for this program. The average GPA for 2019 was 3.39 and while things are becoming more competitive, you still don't need an amazing GPA to get in! If you do fine in the interview and meet all of their admissions criteria including the two new prerequisites then you shouldn't have a problem getting in.
 
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Yup, but because there is no secondary app, you are offered an II if you meet requirements.
No kidding? Wow! I was under the impression that I would do an official application after this initial "screening" of sorts.
 
Based on an email conversation with their Admissions department, prerequisites can be in progress as long as you can provide an unofficial transcript with your initial application. They're also able to add documents to your application via email if you have more transcripts than the application allows.
 
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Last year they went out at the beginning of March, not sure if there are going to be any changes for this year.
 
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Ok. I’m not here to tell anyone what to do but just spreading a word of caution about these so-called Aussie medical schools. As a foreign medical student in Australia you serve only one purpose and that’s to subside the local Aussie Med. Students by taking out exuberant loans for a weak degree that you may or may not get. These scummy Aussie deans will take you for everything you got and then some. They will have no qualms whatsoever about intentionally failing you to squeeze you for all the money you got and if you can’t pay they will wash their hands of you in the most grotesque manner. The worst one of these deans is a guy named Geoff Mccoll who runs the UQ/Oschner program. This is a true story.

once again the choice is yours, it’s your life but the only thing I can tell you is if you have close to $1 million and around 5 or 6 years to dedicate to a useless Aussie medical degree then be my guest. If you will rely on government loans to finance your degree then don’t cry when the hammer comes down hard on you.
 
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Ok. I’m not here to tell anyone what to do but just spreading a word of caution about these so-called Aussie medical schools. As a foreign medical student in Australia you serve only one purpose and that’s to subside the local Aussie Med. Students by taking out exuberant loans for a weak degree that you may or may not get. These scummy Aussie deans will take you for everything you got and then some. They will have no qualms whatsoever about intentionally failing you to squeeze you for all the money you got and if you can’t pay they will wash their hands of you in the most grotesque manner. The worst one of these deans is a guy named Geoff Mccoll who runs the UQ/Oschner program. This is a true story

once again the choice is yours, it’s your life but the only thing I can tell you is if you have close to $1 million and around 5 or 6 years to dedicate to a useless Aussie medical degree then be my guest. If you will rely on government loans to finance your degree then don’t cry when the hammer comes down hard on you.
Thanks for the post, we'd also appreciate if you can bring your personal experiences to attention
 
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Fair enough, I can't comment on your experiences (although I would push back a bit on normal medical schools having set preclinical subjects; in the US, more and more medical schools have started to follow a systems-based curriculum rather than using a traditional physiology before pathology approach).

But Ochsner students complete their 3rd and 4th years in the US. The Ochsner clinical school is led by Prof. Amedee, Dean Mccoll is responsible for the 2 preclinical years at UQ. Attrition rate is similar to US-based schools, with the vast majority of students matching successfully to residencies in the US. Again, I don't want to diminish what you have gone through, but I don't think your concerns are relevant to this program in particular.
 
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Match rate and locations are all available online: Match rates and locations

Match rate for 2020 was 95.4%. For context, average USMD match rate in 2020 was 93.9%, and average US IMG match rate was 61.1% (NRMP Main Residency Match Report Shows Record-Highs in Registrants, Positions - The Match, National Resident Matching Program)

Regarding attrition, average for US MD (https://www.aamc.org/system/files/r...tesandattritionratesofu.s.medicalstudents.pdf) looks to be around 1-4%. The UQO website currently doesn't list attrition rate at least as far as I can tell, but according to this post (UQ Ochsner vs. DO Schools.), post #10, in 2018 the website listed overall attrition at 2%.

Again, I can't comment on your experience at UMelb, but the issues you encountered occurred during your clinical years. The clinical years for the UQ Ochsner program take place in the US. I understand you want to share your story and the Australia subforum is the right place, but this is the wrong thread to post it in.
 
@OZ road kill, I read your blog, osce evals and letters. I'm sorry for your experience and I while I don't necessarily agree with all of your points, I do believe some of your interpersonal treatment was grossly unfair. With that being said, your story is a profound call to attention about the imperfect nature of higher education. I managed to find this case SHAFIQ v. OCHSNER HEALTH | Civil Action No. 18-8666. | 20190315c89 | Leagle.com where a student was dismissed following delaying the USMLE and not passing, attending to a classmate's metal breakdown before a clerkship final and not passing, and questionable evals and not passing. Stories like yours cast a light into the seemingly uncaring nature of medical education should you fall out of its good graces. Unfortunately dismissals and attrition are an unspoken taboo in med school that very few speak up about. But, in my opinion, a school's response to the underlying problems leading to dismissals matter more than the number of students who don't make the cut. Unsurprisingly, UQ-Ochsner has since implemented a sit-to-progress rule with step 1 prep time and resources included in their curriculum, began to offer basic mental health training before orientation (which I am waiting to take because it filled up fast), and included a Medical Student Support Team (MSST) to help with matters including "Mental health support, strategies and resources & Navigating University policies and procedures and liaising with the Faculty." Even now with the pandemic, the UQ staff has been very forthright informing the incoming offshore students may have to delay semester 2 in 2022 if borders remain closed.

As for the match statistics, I reached out to a recent graduate and received the following response:
Good evening canquito,

Congrats on being accepted to UQ-Ochsner! It's a great program. In terms of you questions, see below.


For the Class for 2019 match, an outstanding 90% match rate was achieved. In the “Where We Matched” announcement we counted 7 students placed in Australian and 78 out of 87 applicants in US residencies. Assuming Australian placements and US applicants do not overlap, we counted 94 total applicants, yet 121 students participated in the 2018 White Coat ceremony.

As a recent UQ-Ochsner graduate, could you please share your insight into the difference between White Coat participants and total placed students or applicants?
Some students participate in the white coat ceremony but might participate in the MPH or PhD program. Some students switch to the domestic Australian cohort to stay in Australia for all 4 years (not recommended if you ever want to practice in US). Others may fail a rotation or two, therefore delaying graduation. Finally, some students decide to push off entering the match for a year for various reasons (ie haven't completed all STEPS in time, work on research to buff resume, or need time off after medical school before going straight into residency). So the number of students in the White Coat Ceremony and entering the match typically don't correlate. I will say that the most recent class is a larger discrepancy than we typically see. My class had 108 at White Coat Ceremony. Of those 108, 85 entered match and 6 got residencies in Australia. A handfull didn't finish STEPs in time so didn't enter match. And a handful did masters or PhD programs. The rest likely had academic issues preventing them from graduating on time.
Additionally, does the match announcement include SOAP placements?
Match announcement does include SOAP placements. The SOAP process takes place during Match Week. You find out IF you match Monday. Those that don't enter SOAP and scramble for a spot throughout the week. You find out WHERE you match Friday.

Hope this provides some clarity.

2019 Grad

Internal Medicine Resident
Ochsner Medical Center
 
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@OZ road kill, I read your blog, osce evals and letters. I'm sorry for your experience and I while I don't necessarily agree with all of your points, I do believe some of your interpersonal treatment was grossly unfair. With that being said, your story is a profound call to attention about the imperfect nature of higher education. I managed to find this case SHAFIQ v. OCHSNER HEALTH | Civil Action No. 18-8666. | 20190315c89 | Leagle.com where a student was dismissed following delaying the USMLE and not passing, attending to a classmate's metal breakdown before a clerkship final and not passing, and questionable evals and not passing. Stories like yours cast a light into the seemingly uncaring nature of medical education should you fall out of its good graces. Unfortunately dismissals and attrition are an unspoken taboo in med school that very few speak up about. But, in my opinion, a school's response to the underlying problems leading to dismissals matter more than the number of students who don't make the cut. Unsurprisingly, UQ-Ochsner has since implemented a sit-to-progress rule with step 1 prep time and resources included in their curriculum, began to offer basic mental health training before orientation (which I am waiting to take because it filled up fast), and included a Medical Student Support Team (MSST) to help with matters including "Mental health support, strategies and resources & Navigating University policies and procedures and liaising with the Faculty." Even now with the pandemic, the UQ staff has been very forthright informing the incoming offshore students may have to delay semester 2 in 2022 if borders remain closed.

As for the match statistics, I reached out to a recent graduate and received the following response:
Dear Sir,
I’m not here to generalize about attrition rates or Medical School culture nor can I comment on the lawsuit that you mentioned in your post as I don’t know what happened there. However, the UQ/Oschner program did hire Geoff McColl as their dean fully knowing how this individual operates. I have definitively shown that this guy failed students intentionally. I have provided exam papers that clearly illustrate this and when I took all this proof to Melbourne university administrators I was threatened with a two year incarceration term. If you are personally ok with this behavior then there is nothing left to discuss. I’m glad that you weren’t one of his victims and wish you the best of luck in your clinical career. Some of were not as fortunate.
 
Ok. I’m not here to tell anyone what to do but just spreading a word of caution about these so-called Aussie medical schools. As a foreign medical student in Australia you serve only one purpose and that’s to subside the local Aussie Med. Students by taking out exuberant loans for a weak degree that you may or may not get. These scummy Aussie deans will take you for everything you got and then some. They will have no qualms whatsoever about intentionally failing you to squeeze you for all the money you got and if you can’t pay they will wash their hands of you in the most grotesque manner. The worst one of these deans is a guy named Geoff Mccoll who runs the UQ/Oschner program. This is a true story.

once again the choice is yours, it’s your life but the only thing I can tell you is if you have close to $1 million and around 5 or 6 years to dedicate to a useless Aussie medical degree then be my guest. If you will rely on government loans to finance your degree then don’t cry when the hammer comes down hard on you.
Going back to your original post, I find some of your choice of words inaccurate: "so-called Aussie med schools" "weak degree" "useless Aussie medical degree". A better way of putting your advice to prospective Ochsner students is,

"Ochsner has a proven track record of matching students stateside, but there are inherent risks to being a full fee-paying international student. My story sheds light on what can happen if you fall out of the good graces of the medical education system, as @canquito puts it. Your experience will differ from mine since you'll be attending Ochsner, not Unimelb, but please, proceed with caution."
 
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We certainly allow disagreeing viewpoints to be expressed, however we have removed several posts for being unnecessarily combative and resorting to personal insults. Please keep the discussion civil.

Furthermore, several links to an outside website have been removed.
 
Hi-- word of advice regarding the above: UQ/Ochsner ~allegedly~ (I say this so that my posts don't get deleted) monitors forums such as SDN and reddit and does what they can to make sure that the information about the program posted on the internet is favourable. I urge anyone considering this program to not trust everything you read. Unfortunately the faculty has a history of throwing students under the bus, and the program's match rates don't reflect the quality of the curriculum but rather the fact that Ochsner does everything they can to get rid of students who they think won't get a great Step 1 score. Examples:

  • Last year at the beginning of the pandemic they explicitly told students in Australia that they could go home and continue remotely until they were able to get back into Aus, and that the school would do everything they could to support those students. Result: A bunch of students left. A few months later, the faculty did a complete 180 on their stance and told these students they would need to delay progression an entire year because they could not attend 4 hospital sessions in person for a 2 credit class that UQ decided would be mandatory.
  • Around 20% of the second year students failed the CBSE (a practice exam for Step 1 given months before the real exam) and have been not only refused entry to 3rd year rotations, but have had their step registration permits cancelled meaning they need to wait another year before being eligible to sit step. The faculty has cancelled their enrollment and student loans leaving them with no source of income during a pandemic and has been ignoring their calls and emails for the last month. They did this last year as well.
 
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We certainly allow disagreeing viewpoints to be expressed, however we have removed several posts for being unnecessarily combative and resorting to personal insults. Please keep the discussion civil.

Furthermore, several links to an outside website have been removed.
Dear Spurs fan,
While I do appreciate your candor and clear explanation about your attempts to keep this forum civil and I do take that on board I also have to say that I will not stop advocating for marginalized American students(which include women, persons of color and the LGBTQ+ Community) who are most vulnerable to the kind of systemic racism and sexism which is still prevalent in Australian higher education. As a person with a disability I’ve seen this all too much of this during my time down there and have seen the damage that this patriarchal system inflicts. I would really appreciate if you would join me in this.
 
Hi-- word of advice regarding the above: UQ/Ochsner ~allegedly~ (I say this so that my posts don't get deleted) monitors forums such as SDN and reddit and does what they can to make sure that the information about the program posted on the internet is favourable. I urge anyone considering this program to not trust everything you read. Unfortunately the faculty has a history of throwing students under the bus, and the program's match rates don't reflect the quality of the curriculum but rather the fact that Ochsner does everything they can to get rid of students who they think won't get a great Step 1 score. Examples:

  • Last year at the beginning of the pandemic they explicitly told students in Australia that they could go home and continue remotely until they were able to get back into Aus, and that the school would do everything they could to support those students. Result: A bunch of students left. A few months later, the faculty did a complete 180 on their stance and told these students they would need to delay progression an entire year because they could not attend 4 hospital sessions in person for a 2 credit class that UQ decided would be mandatory.
  • Around 20% of the second year students failed the CBSE (a practice exam for Step 1 given months before the real exam) and have been not only refused entry to 3rd year rotations, but have had their step registration permits cancelled meaning they need to wait another year before being eligible to sit step. The faculty has cancelled their enrollment and student loans leaving them with no source of income during a pandemic and has been ignoring their calls and emails for the last month. They did this last year as well.
I had heard about the first one, and yeah definitely a really crappy situation. I don't think anyone could have foreseen how things turned out, but still not taking responsibility for advice given is not good at all.

The second I hadn't heard about. If 20% of the class is delayed every year that's a pretty big issue. Maybe it will be less of an issue moving forward since step 1 will be p/f but still that's bad.
 
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Going back to your original post, I find some of your choice of words inaccurate: "so-called Aussie med schools" "weak degree" "useless Aussie medical degree". A better way of putting your advice to prospective Ochsner students is,

"Ochsner has a proven track record of matching students stateside, but there are inherent risks to being a full fee-paying international student. My story sheds light on what can happen if you fall out of the good graces of the medical education system, as @canquito puts it. Your experience will differ from mine since you'll be attending Ochsner, not Unimelb, but please, proceed with caution."
The moderators are deleting my responses so there is no point in engaging any of you satisfied “students” anymore.
 
This is my last reply with respect to your misfortune as to not derail the thread any further.

Based on your account, Dr. McColl's response sounded inappropriate only when the discussion of procuring an extra 100k in loans was trivialized. Saying that his behavior made him look "high on something" does not advance your plight because it leads me to think (not that you care what my opinion is) you are prone to misconstrue words. For example noting that he referred to your stutter as an "attribute" when it was noted in the dysphagia OSCE eval. I truly am sorry for all you went through, but merely saying someone "failed students intentionally" does not mean this is in fact the case or absolves you of your performance.

Based on the OSCE evaluations I agree with you that some points were deducted far too stringently (for example, palpating with radial pulse instead of using the cuff + stethoscope). And while it is understandable to forget details when carrying out the expected steps in OSCEs, you fail to mention glaring issues such as failing to recognize a potentially fatal hypertensive crisis (185 systolic!) despite using a better measuring technique (I'll get back to this later), and you emphasize receiving minimum discretionary scoring partly due to being provided the incorrect vacutainer tubes when the criteria for the subjective scoring included soft skills like "appeared confident" which are undermined by eval comments like "had difficulty applying tourniquet" and "extreme difficulty with the procedure." For the dysphagia OSCE, this sentence you wrote stood out in particular "All these questions are rather irrelevant and have no bearing on the diagnosis and what’s worse is they are not mentioned in the PBL." It appears that your expectation was to re-enact the PBL in-person rather than as a stand-alone OSCE relevant to the PBL. I assume that the OSCE was handled similar to would happen in real practice. If you say "let's do a Ba swallow" then you would not readily obtain an endoscopy image unless ordered. Furthermore, you say "In the PBL it CLEARLY states that a barium swallow procedure should be performed first to determine the level of obstruction." Yet in your blog the linked PBL mentions the first physician orders a Ba swallow and then refers the pt to a gastroenterologist who subsequently performs "further investigation" by means of an "endoscopic procedure". I cannot fathom a PBL session that did not discuss the diagnostic value of a simple x-ray image vs. a endoscopic biopsy or image. Still there should be a natural comparison of why both procedures were ultimately performed as well as their benefits and limitations. As to the eval question in the dysphagia OSCE, it asks "what investigation would you request to establish a diagnosis?" There is more value in knowing why something happens (endoscopy w/biopsy) rather than where it happens (Ba swallow) especially when Barrett's esophagus is strongly suspected but the problem could have been mechanical as well (obstructed esophagus). Even if that was not explicitly stated in the PBL session, there are clues within the PBL packet that place the onus of clue recognition and learning on the learner. By this I mean the PBL asks questions like "Are symptoms suggestive of a medical obstruction or a mobility problem or is it not possible to say?" In the patient history mentions difficulty swallowing ("a piece of carrot seemed to get stuck for ages in his chest") which sounds like possible a physical problem (obstruction) but also weight lost and smoking should ring possible cancer bells that are explored with the mention of mild esophageal dysplasia that was obtained endoscopically. What I'm saying is, the PBL, being bare bones as it is, was tool to guide your discernment rather constrain your reasoning.

Lastly you write, in response to the Venipuncture OSCE and Dr. Trumble's letter that "there were no marks available for estimating it (blood pressure) by auscultation, as this is a poor discriminator of performance." The exact words in the letter were "no marks [were] awarded for auscultation at the antecubital fossa = this is a given and is not worthy of reward." Furthermore, "other actions such as placing the stethoscope's diaphragm over the antecubital fossa or removing the cuff at the end are not good discriminators and do not warrant marks." The point of checking the radial artery was not to obtain an accurate BP measurement because it simply is not accurate, in fact Dr. Trumble explains the evaluator noted "no marks were awarded for estimating systolic blood pressure by palpation" (because systolic BP is not measured there) but rather evaluators looked to see if there was a "correct level of cuff inflation" which was not achieved since the cuff was elevated to 160 mmHg (30 mmHg + 130 mmHg reported) and the OSCE patient actually had 185 mmHg.
Once again, the moderators are altering and deleting my responses so this back and forth is useless.
 
Match rate and locations are all available online: Match rates and locations

Match rate for 2020 was 95.4%. For context, average USMD match rate in 2020 was 93.9%, and average US IMG match rate was 61.1% (NRMP Main Residency Match Report Shows Record-Highs in Registrants, Positions - The Match, National Resident Matching Program)

Regarding attrition, average for US MD (https://www.aamc.org/system/files/r...tesandattritionratesofu.s.medicalstudents.pdf) looks to be around 1-4%. The UQO website currently doesn't list attrition rate at least as far as I can tell, but according to this post (UQ Ochsner vs. DO Schools.), post #10, in 2018 the website listed overall attrition at 2%.

Again, I can't comment on your experience at UMelb, but the issues you encountered occurred during your clinical years. The clinical years for the UQ Ochsner program take place in the US. I understand you want to share your story and the Australia subforum is the right place, but this is the wrong thread to post it in.
Funny. The posting of my blog was deleted while external websites of UQ websites is allowed.
 
Funny. The posting of my blog was deleted while external websites of UQ websites is allowed.
This is our designated forum to discuss medical schools in Australia and Oceania, so it would be kind of self-defeating for us to restrict linking to their official websites. Very different from your private blog.

Anyone is welcome to offer their perspective so long as they do not resort to personal attacks and insults.
 
Hi-- word of advice regarding the above: UQ/Ochsner ~allegedly~ (I say this so that my posts don't get deleted) monitors forums such as SDN and reddit and does what they can to make sure that the information about the program posted on the internet is favourable. I urge anyone considering this program to not trust everything you read. Unfortunately the faculty has a history of throwing students under the bus, and the program's match rates don't reflect the quality of the curriculum but rather the fact that Ochsner does everything they can to get rid of students who they think won't get a great Step 1 score. Examples:

  • Last year at the beginning of the pandemic they explicitly told students in Australia that they could go home and continue remotely until they were able to get back into Aus, and that the school would do everything they could to support those students. Result: A bunch of students left. A few months later, the faculty did a complete 180 on their stance and told these students they would need to delay progression an entire year because they could not attend 4 hospital sessions in person for a 2 credit class that UQ decided would be mandatory.
  • Around 20% of the second year students failed the CBSE (a practice exam for Step 1 given months before the real exam) and have been not only refused entry to 3rd year rotations, but have had their step registration permits cancelled meaning they need to wait another year before being eligible to sit step. The faculty has cancelled their enrollment and student loans leaving them with no source of income during a pandemic and has been ignoring their calls and emails for the last month. They did this last year as well.
This is insane!
 
Wow this thread derailed. Sorry for your loss. Medicine is hard. Med school is meant to weed out those that can’t manage the stresses. Not everyone is meant to be a doctor. Med school is meant to be hard because of the responsibly you take for your patients. Based on the posting above it seems like some self reflection is in order.
 
Wow this thread derailed. Sorry for your loss. Medicine is hard. Med school is meant to weed out those that can’t manage the stresses. Not everyone is meant to be a doctor. Med school is meant to be hard because of the responsibly you take for your patients. Based on the posting above it seems like some self reflection is in order.
So when an Aussie medical school is screwing you and you offer direct evidence that they are doing so, you are so supposed to self-reflect?
 
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So when an Aussie medical school is screwing you and you offer direct evidence that they are doing so, you are so supposed to self-reflect?
I'm not sure what you're seeking in continuing to post here. We've acknowledged that your situation was unfortunate and you're justified in wanting to vent about it. However, if you're looking for other students to rally and agree that we're going to boycott applying because of the experiences that one student had at a different Australian medical school....this probably isn't the place.

Again, this is not to minimize your experience. I read through your blog and can empathize with your frustrations. But this probably isn't the right thread for it.
 
I'm not sure what you're seeking in continuing to post here. We've acknowledged that your situation was unfortunate and you're justified in wanting to vent about it. However, if you're looking for other students to rally and agree that we're going to boycott applying because of the experiences that one student had at a different Australian medical school....this probably isn't the place.

Again, this is not to minimize your experience. I read through your blog and can empathize with your frustrations. But this probably isn't the right thread for it

the same individual who intentionally failed me in Melbourne is now the executive dean of UQ/Oschner. Do you understand that? Out of all the potential deans that UQ could have hired, they chose this one knowing full well what this dude stands for. I said in my first post here that I’m not here to tell anyone what to do so your accusation that I am calling for boycott is baseless. This thread discourages any evidence that will put Aussie medical schools in a bad light. My blog with direct evidence of malfeasance by the current executive dean of UQ was deleted while UQ infomercials are promoted on this thread. If you really advertise yourself as neutral information sites for Aussie Med schools than allow everyone’s experiences to be posted here. But you don’t. Any and all criticisms of Aussie medical schools is quickly countered here.
 
Pondering why @GoSpursGo removed your website; maybe because of the cybersecurity risks of visiting unsolicited websites of unknown hosts. Perhaps if your domain name is something like [custom name].wordpress.com it would be okay? @GoSpursGo
 
Pondering why @GoSpursGo removed your website; maybe because of the cybersecurity risks of visiting unsolicited websites of unknown hosts. Perhaps if your domain name is something like [custom name].wordpress.com it would be okay? @GoSpursGo
I deleted my own post because in hindsight it was neither positive nor relevant to UQ-Ochsner. The linked blog was certainly off-topic as it was not pertinent for the same reasons. Now if a dismissed student from a past Ochsner cohort were to link a personal blog here, I'd be surprised if it were also removed.
 
Pondering why @GoSpursGo removed your website; maybe because of the cybersecurity risks of visiting unsolicited websites of unknown hosts. Perhaps if your domain name is something like [custom name].wordpress.com it would be okay? @GoSpursGo
We have no stake in whether information posted is positive or negative, We just don’t let people use SDN to drive traffic to their private blog or website as a matter of policy. If someone wants to share their perspective they can do so here, like @MiddleMeningeal did.
 
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the same individual who intentionally failed me in Melbourne is now the executive dean of UQ/Oschner. Do you understand that? Out of all the potential deans that UQ could have hired, they chose this one knowing full well what this dude stands for. I said in my first post here that I’m not here to tell anyone what to do so your accusation that I am calling for boycott is baseless. This thread discourages any evidence that will put Aussie medical schools in a bad light. My blog with direct evidence of malfeasance by the current executive dean of UQ was deleted while UQ infomercials are promoted on this thread. If you really advertise yourself as neutral information sites for Aussie Med schools than allow everyone’s experiences to be posted here. But you don’t. Any and all criticisms of Aussie medical schools is quickly countered here.
I understand you very well.

I am not a moderator, so I (personally) am not deleting or advertising anything on this site.

Your claims and frustrations and calls for caution have been heard.
 
Hi-- word of advice regarding the above: UQ/Ochsner ~allegedly~ (I say this so that my posts don't get deleted) monitors forums such as SDN and reddit and does what they can to make sure that the information about the program posted on the internet is favourable. I urge anyone considering this program to not trust everything you read. Unfortunately the faculty has a history of throwing students under the bus, and the program's match rates don't reflect the quality of the curriculum but rather the fact that Ochsner does everything they can to get rid of students who they think won't get a great Step 1 score. Examples:

  • Last year at the beginning of the pandemic they explicitly told students in Australia that they could go home and continue remotely until they were able to get back into Aus, and that the school would do everything they could to support those students. Result: A bunch of students left. A few months later, the faculty did a complete 180 on their stance and told these students they would need to delay progression an entire year because they could not attend 4 hospital sessions in person for a 2 credit class that UQ decided would be mandatory.
  • Around 20% of the second year students failed the CBSE (a practice exam for Step 1 given months before the real exam) and have been not only refused entry to 3rd year rotations, but have had their step registration permits cancelled meaning they need to wait another year before being eligible to sit step. The faculty has cancelled their enrollment and student loans leaving them with no source of income during a pandemic and has been ignoring their calls and emails for the last month. They did this last year as well.

Ok a lot going on in this thread.

I have talked to some current students about this issue with going home. Students left at their own risk knowing that the pandemic could change things drastically. If I was in their shoes I would not have risked leaving the country. Many students opted to not take the risk of leaving Australia and therefore are now in a position to continue their education. Many people are stuck overseas including Australian nationals who can't get home. It's not fair but that is life. There are certain things that are outside the control of universities- travel restrictions due to a pandemic is one of them. UQ is allowing first semester med to be done this year remotely. Some universities are not (Sydney) and if you can't get in for first semester in person learning then you need to either defer a year or even lose your spot (can't remember in Sydney's case if they allowed deferrals). It is what it is.

Can't comment on the failing of the CBSE and progression. That was a new requirement put in place last year. I believe students were told that they needed to pass this exam all year in order to sit step 1. A failing score on the CBSE likely means that the student would have failed Step 1 (but more recent students would need to comment on this change and whether it was fair or not / timeline).

Disagree in general your initial comment regarding "history of throwing students under the bus" :

Med school is hard. Not everyone will make it through. The USMLE is challenging. Being able to pass licensing exams is a fact of life. The 3rd and 4th year rotations at Ochsner are really well run and the environment is supportive there with excellent admin support. That being said It is very difficult for Ochsner to support students appropriately who cannot pass step 1 (they can't take the exam for you). This is why they have implemented some of the newer changes regarding sit to progress, CBSE, step 1 course in the phase 1 curriculum etc. Issues will arise with any new change that is inevitable. This is a complicated multifaceted issue and there are no easy answers on how to best support students who scrape by semester after semester but might not get step 1 done etc. Being able to succeed in medicine requires many skills not readily apparent during the initial screening process of candidates. That being said it is very difficult to get step 1 done during 3rd and 4th year and that is likely one of the reasons they make students now defer a semester or a year if they haven't sat it by the end of 2nd year.

Would it be nice if UQO went back to the old system of allowing people to sit step 1 whenever they wanted with no restrictions or pre-test CBSE to take ? Maybe. But at the end of the day they lived through that system previously for years and it caused numerous headaches for admin trying to support these students as they inched closer and closer to graduation getting further and further behind in their licensing exams taking rotations off to study and then causing placement/scedule issues for everyone else when re-entering rotations. Most US med schools still require step 1 completed before starting third year.

That all being said the attrition rate is still very low at UQ. While I know several students that had to repeat semesters or years, I know of no one who failed outright.

There are always 2 sides to every story and so I can't comment on what happened with the poster in this thread and his issues with Melb Uni specifically. Failing is always heartbreaking. Yes it is a fact that the Australian higher education sector is heavily reliant on international students. I found more than ample opportunities at UQ to pass. And that being said every international I know at UQ who wanted an internship spot in Australia got one and that is even students who took a year off. In fact many Ochsner students who do not finish the USMLE end up moving back to Australia to train.
 
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Ok a lot going on in this thread.

I have talked to some current students about this issue with going home. Students left at their own risk knowing that the pandemic could change things drastically. If I was in their shoes I would not have risked leaving the country. Many students opted to not take the risk of leaving Australia and therefore are now in a position to continue their education. Many people are stuck overseas including Australian nationals who can't get home. It's not fair but that is life. There are certain things that are outside the control of universities- travel restrictions due to a pandemic is one of them. UQ is allowing first semester med to be done this year remotely. Some universities are not (Sydney) and if you can't get in for first semester in person learning then you need to either defer a year or even lose your spot (can't remember in Sydney's case if they allowed deferrals). It is what it is.

Can't comment on the failing of the CBSE and progression. That was a new requirement put in place last year. I believe students were told that they needed to pass this exam all year in order to sit step 1. A failing score on the CBSE likely means that the student would have failed Step 1 (but more recent students would need to comment on this change and whether it was fair or not / timeline).

Disagree in general your initial comment regarding "history of throwing students under the bus" :

Med school is hard. Not everyone will make it through. The USMLE is challenging. Being able to pass licensing exams is a fact of life. The 3rd and 4th year rotations at Ochsner are really well run and the environment is supportive there with excellent admin support. That being said It is very difficult for Ochsner to support students appropriately who cannot pass step 1 (they can't take the exam for you). This is why they have implemented some of the newer changes regarding sit to progress, CBSE, step 1 course in the phase 1 curriculum etc. Issues will arise with any new change that is inevitable. This is a complicated multifaceted issue and there are no easy answers on how to best support students who scrape by semester after semester but might not get step 1 done etc. Being able to succeed in medicine requires many skills not readily apparent during the initial screening process of candidates. That being said it is very difficult to get step 1 done during 3rd and 4th year and that is likely one of the reasons they make students now defer a semester or a year if they haven't sat it by the end of 2nd year.

Would it be nice if UQO went back to the old system of allowing people to sit step 1 whenever they wanted with no restrictions or pre-test CBSE to take ? Maybe. But at the end of the day they lived through that system previously for years and it caused numerous headaches for admin trying to support these students as they inched closer and closer to graduation getting further and further behind in their licensing exams taking rotations off to study and then causing placement/scedule issues for everyone else when re-entering rotations. Most US med schools still require step 1 completed before starting third year.

That all being said the attrition rate is still very low at UQ. While I know several students that had to repeat semesters or years, I know of no one who failed outright.

There are always 2 sides to every story and so I can't comment on what happened with the poster in this thread and his issues with Melb Uni specifically. Failing is always heartbreaking. Yes it is a fact that the Australian higher education sector is heavily reliant on international students. I found more than ample opportunities at UQ to pass. And that being said every international I know at UQ who wanted an internship spot in Australia got one and that is even students who took a year off. In fact many Ochsner students who do not finish the USMLE end up moving back to Australia to train.
It’s me again, sorry to keep upsetting you guys with my comments but just can’t help it, so I apologize in advance. Let’s start off with the step 1 situation. Let’s get one thing out of the way. In no way, shape, or form is the UQ/Oschner program accredited in the USA. This is an Australian medical school that teaches an Australian curriculum which is inferior to US medical school curriculum and probably the Caribbean medical schools which attempt to teach a US curriculum. Since UQ students are NOT accredited medical students in US, the Oschner school simply offers a series of electives that are available to all foreign medical students including the Caribbean students or any fly by night medical schools. US government has to begin addressing this vicious loophole. In terms of the pre-step 1 CBSE hurdle requirement, this is shonky to say the least. The Aussie students who are directly subsidized by the Oschner students do not have to pass this exam and are already in clinical school in Australia. So this is the height of discrimination. No US medical school does this. Passing the USMLE step 1 is the students responsibility before they enter clinical school. So this program has the Oschner students sit a step 1 mock exam before they could advance. Well what’s happens if a student passes the UQ mock and then fails the real step 1? Do they still start clinical school? This makes no sense.
 
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It’s me again, sorry to keep upsetting you guys with my comments but just can’t help it, so I apologize in advance. Let’s start off with the step 1 situation. Let’s get one thing out of the way. In no way, shape, or form is the UQ/Oschner program accredited in the USA. This is an Australian medical school that teaches an Australian curriculum which is inferior to US medical school curriculum and probably the Caribbean medical schools which attempt to teach a US curriculum. Since UQ students are NOT accredited medical students in US, the Oschner school simply offers a series of electives that are available to all foreign medical students including the Caribbean students or any fly by night medical schools. US government has to begin addressing this vicious loophole. In terms of the pre-step 1 CBSE hurdle requirement, this is shonky to say the least. The Aussie students who are directly subsidized by the Oschner students do not have to pass this exam and are already in clinical school in Australia. So this is the height of discrimination. No US medical school does this. Passing the USMLE step 1 is the students responsibility before they enter clinical school. So this program has the Oschner students sit a step 1 mock exam before they could advance. Well what’s happens if a student passes the UQ mock and then fails the real step 1? Do they still start clinical school? This makes no sense.

So I can't comment on what happens if a student passes the CBSE and then fails step 1. I believe you only need to sit step 1 not pass it in order to progress to clinical rotations. This is readily available information on the UQ Ochsner website if curious. The reason there is a CBSE because it acts as a final exam for the required step 1 course that students take in their 2nd year like every course that has a final exam the step 1 course does to and that is the CBSE. This course is required for the Ochsner part of the cohort.

The UQ Ochsner program provides you an Australian medical degree and a unique experience to train on 2 continents. When you say it is not accredited it is difficult to understand what you mean. No it is not a U.S. medical school licensed by the LCME but it does allow you to practice medicine in all 50 U.S. states including California which historically has been the most stringent with regards to which medical grads are allowed to practice there. So it that case yes it is accredited. It is a real medical school and listed in U.S. News and World Report and other ranking publications. Some of the smartest domestic students in Australia attend the school. The Ochsner match rate speaks for itself. People who finish the USMLE sequence with no major red flags will match somewhere. People who do very well will match very well.

Electives you need to apply for and move for. The Ochsner Clinical School is part of UQ and therefore not a series of electives. Many students from other international schools struggle to get U.S. electives and U.S. experience or have to pay lots of money for that experience. They don't have a hospital in the U.S. Caribbean grads often have to move around the country or a city for their clinical rotations and get farmed out to substandard third rate hospitals for their rotations. This program is completely different from that and Ochsner faculty care about their medical students and training their students.

Furthermore you went to Melbourne so you really have no expertise regarding this medical program.
 
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So I can't comment on what happens if a student passes the CBSE and then fails step 1. I believe you only need to sit step 1 not pass it in order to progress to clinical rotations. This is readily available information on the UQ Ochsner website if curious. The reason there is a CBSE because it acts as a final exam for the required step 1 course that students take in their 2nd year like every course that has a final exam the step 1 course does to and that is the CBSE. This course is required for the Ochsner part of the cohort.

The UQ Ochsner program provides you an Australian medical degree and a unique experience to train on 2 continents. When you say it is not accredited it is difficult to understand what you mean. No it is not a U.S. medical school licensed by the LCME but it does allow you to practice medicine in all 50 U.S. states including California which historically has been the most stringent with regards to which medical grads are allowed to practice there. So it that case yes it is accredited. It is a real medical school and listed in U.S. News and World Report and other ranking publications. Some of the smartest domestic students in Australia attend the school. The Ochsner match rate speaks for itself. People who finish the USMLE sequence with no major red flags will match somewhere. People who do very well will match very well.

Electives you need to apply for and move for. The Ochsner Clinical School is part of UQ and therefore not a series of electives. Many students from other international schools struggle to get U.S. electives and U.S. experience or have to pay lots of money for that experience. They don't have a hospital in the U.S. Caribbean grads often have to move around the country or a city for their clinical rotations and get farmed out to substandard third rate hospitals for their rotations. This program is completely different from that and Ochsner faculty care about their medical students and training their students.

Furthermore you went to Melbourne so you really have no expertise regarding this medical program.
So as long as there are no red.flags? Wow!! I think any potential US medical student has to read this thread long and hard before they go into a half a million dollar debt with no hope of a match. So if students fail this step 1 mock exam and get held back a year(major red flag), that’s it, game over and they are on the hook for at least $200k(if they don’t continue). Some medical school! You can go to Eastern Europe and only pay $20k per year. I think problem that this Oschner program will soon face is since many of these unmatched students won’t be able to pay back their loans, a critical mass will be reached where us dept of education will not allow loans to be disbursed. From the looks of things, a few discrimination lawsuits may also be on he horizon. My advise to UQ/Oschner is to make it cash upfront.
 
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A failing score on the CBSE likely means that the student would have failed Step 1 (but more recent students would need to comment on this change and whether it was fair or not / timeline).
No, it does not mean that students would likely fail step 1. It's actually not even designed to be predictive of step scores- it's intended to provide a breakdown of strengths and weaknesses to guide students' preparation for step 1. I am not sure what you are using to draw this conclusion? Both this year and last, over 40 UQ-Ochsner students (per year) failed their first sit of the CBSE (The students who are being held back failed the second CBSE in addition to the first). My whole point was that this policy they have created is not working to catch students who are at risk of being underprepared for step 1, it is actively undermining their ability to succeed.


Disagree in general your initial comment regarding "history of throwing students under the bus"
I mean if you don't think telling students that they will be able to continue their classes remotely without interruption if they leave the country and then changing your mind and making them delay a year is throwing students under the bus... then that is certainly a take, and you are entitled to your opinion! Personally at this point I had already lost my trust in UQ and did not believe them when they said it would be fine if we left, but considering the absurdly expensive tuition we pay I think students deserve more than this. It really would not have been much effort to arrange a course for these students here in the states to meet the clinical hour requirements that were missing, but they just don't care.

Med school is hard, yes. Having your school actively take steps to prevent you from doing your best is the real issue here.
Call me crazy but I am inclined to question whether some of the people who claim to be UQO students on this forum are actually students... I don't know of any students that would defend these actions.
 
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a few discrimination lawsuits may also be on he horizon
There is already an active lawsuit on a public database for anyone who is curious

Well what’s happens if a student passes the UQ mock and then fails the real step 1? Do they still start clinical school? This makes no sense.
Yes, they get to proceed as normal. They actually can't even take time off to properly prepare to re-sit step 1. The "sit to progress" rule only requires students to attempt, not necessarily pass.
 
So as long as there are no red.flags? Wow!! I think any potential US medical student has to read this thread long and hard before they go into a half a million dollar debt with no hope of a match. So if students fail this step 1 mock exam and get held back a year(major red flag), that’s it, game over and they are on the hook for at least $200k(if they don’t continue). Some medical school! You can go to Eastern Europe and only pay $20k per year. I think problem that this Oschner program will soon face is since many of these unmatched students won’t be able to pay back their loans, a critical mass will be reached where us dept of education will not allow loans to be disbursed. From the looks of things, a few discrimination lawsuits may also be on he horizon. My advise to UQ/Oschner is to make it cash upfront.

Lots of students have repeated terms/not graduated on time at UQO and still matched. Happens every year. Not even going to an American med school guarantees you a match. Red flags anywhere hurt you. There are no guarantees in anything and certainly going to medical school in eastern europe without extensive clinical time in U.S. hospitals will not put you in the same position to be successful in the U.S. match. Also FYI getting through medical school in some of those Eastern European countries might be harder than you think. Even less support- it is a sink or swim mentality. You think you had it bad ?

Prospective students put themselves in the best situation they can. If they are going to go to an international school UQ is a great choice giving you 2 years at a very reputable well known hospital system to network and build their skills in preparation for the match You think that because you paid tuition you are entitled to get through medical school and get a job. Doesn't work like that. Only in Australia does a domestic student get guaranteed an internship after graduating. Please stop talking about medical programs you know nothing about. The stats of people applying for the match speak for themselves.
 
No, it does not mean that students would likely fail step 1. It's actually not even designed to be predictive of step scores- it's intended to provide a breakdown of strengths and weaknesses to guide students' preparation for step 1. I am not sure what you are using to draw this conclusion? Both this year and last, over 40 UQ-Ochsner students (per year) failed their first sit of the CBSE (The students who are being held back failed the second CBSE in addition to the first). My whole point was that this policy they have created is not working to catch students who are at risk of being underprepared for step 1, it is actively undermining their ability to succeed.



I mean if you don't think telling students that they will be able to continue their classes remotely without interruption if they leave the country and then changing your mind and making them delay a year is throwing students under the bus... then that is certainly a take, and you are entitled to your opinion! Personally at this point I had already lost my trust in UQ and did not believe them when they said it would be fine if we left, but considering the absurdly expensive tuition we pay I think students deserve more than this. It really would not have been much effort to arrange a course for these students here in the states to meet the clinical hour requirements that were missing, but they just don't care.

Med school is hard, yes. Having your school actively take steps to prevent you from doing your best is the real issue here.
Call me crazy but I am inclined to question whether some of the people who claim to be UQO students on this forum are actually students... I don't know of any students that would defend these actions.

Thanks for your comment regarding the CBSE. Honestly don't know much about it. And your experience re policy with covid stuff. Again outside my scope.

Even people in my year complained about policy stuff at UQ . But I've talked to students from lots of schools. People complain at every medical school. It is a high stakes stressful 4 years and no one is completely happy all the time in medical school because of how challenging it can be. When something is stressful it is easy to complain about stuff especially exams and onerous administrative requirements (literally happens at every school). You look at the overall picture. At least I did.

I wouldn't have traded the experience for anything. Overall it was a great unique experience and I'm proud to be an alumn of the program.
 
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So as an American student you see no problem with US students totally subsidizing the HECS schemed Aussie students while being held to a much lower standard than the full fee paying US students? It doesn’t bother you that US students are being disciplined academically for passing the same course work as their Aussie counterparts? You see no problem with this at all? If the UQ curriculum satisfies world standards, then why were Aussie students shielded from the step 1 hurdle that was so viciously applied to American students who now have no chance of landing any sort of US residency?
 
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