Urology vs. Rad-onc vs. Neurosurg

[Its_MurDAH]

I am currently in the process of deciding between urology, radiation onc, and maybe even neurosurg. It sucks because I am so torn between the three and I have to decide fast because elective-picking time is coming up and uro is early match.

anyone have any thoughts on how these 3 compare against one another?
I know quite a bit about urology since i have focused on it for the past couple of years, but i am unsure about the other two. I am talking about things like salary, procedures, private practice, potential for fellowships, hours (important), lifestyle, etc. I know there is a ton of information to be found online but I think it would be helpful to hear people's opinions and their experiences with those fields.

I would love to hear from people who are interested in these specialties and hear pros and cons of the respective fields. I think it will not only make for good discussion but will also provide some valuable information for future 4th years.

I can talk quite a bit about urology but i will try to keep it short and say that the uro residents are probably the nicest surgical residents when you look at every specialty out there...and I have looked, believe me. This actually seems to hold true no matter where you go. They are very enthusiastic and happy about what they do, they have crazy cool gadgets, bread and butter procedures that you can bill for, they make good money (200-300 in a big academic center, much more in private practice), and there are plenty of cool fellowships like uro onc, peds uro, fertility etc. Plus, the way the population is aging and the fact that there is a shortage of urologists, the field is only going to grow like mad from here. The downside is that it is a surgery subspecialty after all so the hours in residency aren't exactly the best: you will still be here by 5 or 6 and leave around 5-6 pm, maybe even later. Also, you are doing gen surg as a pgy1 and most places only have one spot per year so the workload can get unbearable at times. It is extremely competitive and it is early match. You also look at a lot of old man penis. As stereotypical as that sounds, it is actually quite true. I will post when I think of more.

Any thoughts from others? For uro, rad-onc, or neuro surg?

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[dragonfly99]

As far as hours go
neurosurg = terrible, especially as a resident but likely also as an attending
urology = crappy as an intern, improves throughout residency, probably fine as an attending
rad onc. = good hours/lifestyle. They don't take much call from what I've seen.

All those are hard to match into, but I hear that urology is maybe the worst...on par with derm now. Rad. onc probably quite hard too, though my impression was not as many people apply.

I agree with you about the niceness of uro residents vs. most other surgical residents.

I hope you are AOA and have 230+ USMLE scores...for your sake I mean.

 

[mikedc813]

As far as hours go
neurosurg = terrible, especially as a resident but likely also as an attending
urology = crappy as an intern, improves throughout residency, probably fine as an attending
rad onc. = good hours/lifestyle. They don't take much call from what I've seen.

All those are hard to match into, but I hear that urology is maybe the worst...on par with derm now. Rad. onc probably quite hard too, though my impression was not as many people apply.

I agree with you about the niceness of uro residents vs. most other surgical residents.

I hope you are AOA and have 230+ USMLE scores...for your sake I mean.

Speaking from a rad onc perspective, you are quite mistaken that not as many people are applying. If anything, more people are finding out about rad onc now more than ever making it more difficult.

Lifestyle in rad onc is not just good, it's great. "Call" is from home and is a breeze compared to other fields. Urology and neurosurgery and rad onc are nothing alike.

If you're making a decision based on lifestyle, you're in for some disappointment when you end up doing something you find boring or absolutely hate.

 

[Its_MurDAH]

Speaking from a rad onc perspective, you are quite mistaken that not as many people are applying. If anything, more people are finding out about rad onc now more than ever making it more difficult.

Lifestyle in rad onc is not just good, it's great. "Call" is from home and is a breeze compared to other fields. Urology and neurosurgery and rad onc are nothing alike.

If you're making a decision based on lifestyle, you're in for some disappointment when you end up doing something you find boring or absolutely hate.

would it be true to state that rad onc is an extremely research-heavy field? I understand that the residents and attendings do a ridiculous amount of reading every day to stay on top of every little piece of literature that is out there. What are the hours like for a typical first year resident? Also, is there any such thing as a private practice radiation oncologist, or are you guys restricted to working at a big hospital or medical center that has a radiation suite? Could you also elaborate on the salary one can command coming out of a fairly strong rad-onc residency program?

As far as neurosurg goes, my understanding was that it is less competitive than uro but a ****load more people apply.

anyone have any thoughts about interventional radiology and how that compares with urology?

 

[177983]

Don't you also want to consider dermopathology as a specialty? I hear they're allowed to literally print money with special dermopathological printers...

 

[BigRedBeta]

I am currently in the process of deciding between urology, radiation onc, and maybe even neurosurg. It sucks because I am so torn between the three and I have to decide fast because elective-picking time is coming up and uro is early match.

anyone have any thoughts on how these 3 compare against one another?
I know quite a bit about urology since i have focused on it for the past couple of years, but i am unsure about the other two. I am talking about things like salary, procedures, private practice, potential for fellowships, hours (important), lifestyle, etc. I know there is a ton of information to be found online but I think it would be helpful to hear people's opinions and their experiences with those fields.

I would love to hear from people who are interested in these specialties and hear pros and cons of the respective fields. I think it will not only make for good discussion but will also provide some valuable information for future 4th years.

I can talk quite a bit about urology but i will try to keep it short and say that the uro residents are probably the nicest surgical residents when you look at every specialty out there...and I have looked, believe me. This actually seems to hold true no matter where you go. They are very enthusiastic and happy about what they do, they have crazy cool gadgets, bread and butter procedures that you can bill for, they make good money (200-300 in a big academic center, much more in private practice), and there are plenty of cool fellowships like uro onc, peds uro, fertility etc. Plus, the way the population is aging and the fact that there is a shortage of urologists, the field is only going to grow like mad from here. The downside is that it is a surgery subspecialty after all so the hours in residency aren't exactly the best: you will still be here by 5 or 6 and leave around 5-6 pm, maybe even later. Also, you are doing gen surg as a pgy1 and most places only have one spot per year so the workload can get unbearable at times. It is extremely competitive and it is early match. You also look at a lot of old man penis. As stereotypical as that sounds, it is actually quite true. I will post when I think of more.

Any thoughts from others? For uro, rad-onc, or neuro surg?

The one thing I'd encourage is to focus much more on the actual medicine each one does and less on the personalities. Every program is different, and just because the Uros are cool at the four, eight or 12 programs you've looked doesn't mean that they are all. Likewise for the negative personalities you've seen in other fields.

 

[socmob]

I echo the other people's points about not choosing on lifestyle...also, if you're intimidated by the uro resident lifestyle (which is better than gen surg but not by much) how are you even considering neurosurg?? I think the first thing you need to figure out is whether or not you want to be a surgeon. It's hard to do, but I mean, come on, rad onc and surgery (any kind) are really nothing alike and it's beyond just lifestyle. Finally, don't stress about not having enough time - uro is an early match only in terms of when rank lists are due and when match results come back...the applications are due at the same time (starting early sept) as the general match.

 

[Its_MurDAH]

The one thing I'd encourage is to focus much more on the actual medicine each one does and less on the personalities. Every program is different, and just because the Uros are cool at the four, eight or 12 programs you've looked doesn't mean that they are all. Likewise for the negative personalities you've seen in other fields.

well that much is obvious and i am sure no one here is really making any major decisions because "that uro attending was nice to me". It is obvious that people are going to be different every place you go, I was just relating my experience in an anecdotal fashion, which was the whole point of this thread to begin with.

As for the dermpath question, I actually really enjoyed that as a subject 2nd year. Seriously. My understanding of derm path is that you can get there from derm as well as path and that it is extremely competitive regardless of the route you decide to take. However, from the few people I have spoken to, it seems to be easier to enter via derm than path. And you are right, they can easily make upwards of a million in some places. I think it is really cool that they can biopsy lesions and read the path right then and there in the office...and bill a lot for both. I am curious to know more about derm path, I feel like i don't know enough about it to seriously consider it as a career option.

once again, i WANTED this thread to be a bit of hearsay, a bit of personal experience, and a bit of stereotype. Of course not all dermpaths make a million, and not all psych docs have some psychiatric issues of their own. It makes for fun discussion though.

 

[Its_MurDAH]

I echo the other people's points about not choosing on lifestyle...also, if you're intimidated by the uro resident lifestyle (which is better than gen surg but not by much) how are you even considering neurosurg?? I think the first thing you need to figure out is whether or not you want to be a surgeon. It's hard to do, but I mean, come on, rad onc and surgery (any kind) are really nothing alike and it's beyond just lifestyle. Finally, don't stress about not having enough time - uro is an early match only in terms of when rank lists are due and when match results come back...the applications are due at the same time (starting early sept) as the general match.

I don't think that I necessarily need to decide between surgery and no-surgery just yet. I think it is perfectly fine to like a couple surgical subspecialties and also things like radiology or derm or anesthesia. I don't want to get locked into one path or the other at this point, but rather explore options. I know I don't want medicine or any of the medicine fellowships so that's out. I have had experience with both uro and neurosurg and I liked them both so I will consider them. Of course, radiation oncology is tough to compare to a surgical specialty that doesn't mean that one can't be interested in both and want to know more about them...

 

[FatPigeon]

they can easily make upwards of a million in some places

Ha! I'd just ignore that, given that you wouldn't have the job for at least another 5 years or so....and because once Uncle Sam (errr Obama) finds out about it, he'll cut off the top 85% and use it to buy diapers for homeless women and their 6 babies. Just ask general surgeons about that s#!t!

 

[Tiger26]

Ha! I'd just ignore that, given that you wouldn't have the job for at least another 5 years or so....and because once Uncle Sam (errr Obama) finds out about it, he'll cut off the top 85% and use it to buy diapers for homeless women and their 6 babies. Just ask general surgeons about that s#!t!

aw, come on, we don't deserve that money anyway because we're so rich . . . .

 

[Orthodoc40]

It's hard to do, but I mean, come on, rad onc and surgery (any kind) are really nothing alike and it's beyond just lifestyle.

They are somewhat alike, actually. My friend who is a radiation oncologist gives the exact same reason they chose rad onc as my friends the surgeons have given. They wanted to do something where you have a task to complete for the patient, you complete it, and then they go back to whoever sent them to you.

It may or may not even work that way in every situation - but the point is, there are similarities that may not at first seem obvious.

 

[Its_MurDAH]

Any budding (or current) interventional radiologists here? Is IR pretty comparable with a surgical field?

 

[Pontifex Maximus]

From what I hear, IR is pretty comparable to surgery, both in hours and compensation. I wouldn't touch neurosurg with a 100 foot pole unless I was head over heels obsessed. The residency and lifestyle is absolutely frickin awful.

I love the personalities in Uro, and the procedures seem pretty interesting, but it is very, very competitive. Rad Onc is cool, and great lifestyle, but it is a bit nerdy at heart. I'd choose between these two, imo.

 

[Its_MurDAH]

From what I hear, IR is pretty comparable to surgery, both in hours and compensation. I wouldn't touch neurosurg with a 100 foot pole unless I was head over heels obsessed. The residency and lifestyle is absolutely frickin awful.

I love the personalities in Uro, and the procedures seem pretty interesting, but it is very, very competitive. Rad Onc is cool, and great lifestyle, but it is a bit nerdy at heart. I'd choose between these two, imo.

hey thanks for your response. I, myself, am leaning more towards uro and rad-onc rather than neuro surg. I see the neurosurgeons rounding in the morning and they look like a pack of dead-eyed zombies. they look so miserable. Then around 8 am the urologists come out to round and they are always smiling and just shooting the **** most of the time.

it is totally just an observation, probably not based on any fact at all, but the difference between the two groups is huge just looking at them.