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Aznfarmerboi

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
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http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/best-careers/2008/12/11/best-careers-2009-pharmacist.html

I bet you the editor read our posts... good job guys on getting the news out!

"Good news and bad news on the job market: The good news is that current demand is strong and that more pharmacy schools are opening, which will make it easier for you to get in. The bad news is that those new schools will be pumping out lots of new graduates, which will make it harder to land a job."
 
Nice article. And I like that they mentioned research pharmacist, as this is one career that I would be interested in. Haven't actually met too many research pharmacists, though.
 
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mission accomplished for me. 👍

Yes, you must be quite proud. Your personal crusade is having quite the impact. Are you that insecure about your worth/marketability as a pharmacist that you're trying to personally scare everyone out of the field? This issue shouldn't bother you in the least, you've got your degree and you seem to be fairly sure of both your future and the future of the profession. You certainly come off that way in your posts. Yet here you are, standing on a soapbox trying to self-righteously fear monger to people as if your own cushy career depends on it. Are you that worried that some new graduate from some "diploma mill" will come and snatch up your job?

I wonder who is in the field more for the paycheck; a pre-pharmacy student who knows hard times are coming and is still pursuing the field anyway, or someone like you who is desperately trying to keep them at bay.
 
Yes, you must be quite proud. Your personal crusade is having quite the impact. Are you that insecure about your worth/marketability as a pharmacist that you're trying to personally scare everyone out of the field? This issue shouldn't bother you in the least, you've got your degree and you seem to be fairly sure of both your future and the future of the profession. You certainly come off that way in your posts. Yet here you are, standing on a soapbox trying to self-righteously fear monger to people as if your own cushy career depends on it. Are you that worried that some new graduate from some "diploma mill" will come and snatch up your job?

I wonder who is in the field more for the paycheck; a pre-pharmacy student who knows hard times are coming and is still pursuing the field anyway, or someone like you who is desperately trying to keep them at bay.

im in complete agreement with irishhammer. aznfarmerboi, it would be nice if you could stop repeating yourself about this issue. we've heard it from you WAY too many times. and it's not going to stop a lot of people from trying to go to pharm school anyway.
 
im in complete agreement with irishhammer. aznfarmerboi, it would be nice if you could stop repeating yourself about this issue. we've heard it from you WAY too many times. and it's not going to stop a lot of people from trying to go to pharm school anyway.

If it stops any....👍
 
maybe the people who havent invested too much into prepharm will drop it. which is good for them, 'cause they dont have much to lose.
 
I see nothing wrong with what the OP is pointing out. i bet some of you students will echo the same sentiments as us recent grads once you realize job opportunities are becoming more and more scarce
 
I see nothing wrong with what the OP is pointing out. i bet some of you students will echo the same sentiments as us recent grads once you realize job opportunities are becoming more and more scarce

we're not saying what he says is wrong. what we're saying is that it's been said one too many times
 
Yes, you must be quite proud. Your personal crusade is having quite the impact. Are you that insecure about your worth/marketability as a pharmacist that you're trying to personally scare everyone out of the field? This issue shouldn't bother you in the least, you've got your degree and you seem to be fairly sure of both your future and the future of the profession. You certainly come off that way in your posts. Yet here you are, standing on a soapbox trying to self-righteously fear monger to people as if your own cushy career depends on it. Are you that worried that some new graduate from some "diploma mill" will come and snatch up your job?

I wonder who is in the field more for the paycheck; a pre-pharmacy student who knows hard times are coming and is still pursuing the field anyway, or someone like you who is desperately trying to keep them at bay.


I think you are a pretty insecure guy. I have yet to recognize what is the significance of your posting? Maybe you are a troll?

As a SDN poster who have been here for years, I have a record of posting on practically every thread there is. If the majority of the forum's thread includes job shortages, diploma mills, etc (started by other posters), I will post and state my opinion. If you dont want to hear it, feel free to click on the ignore button.

I would hardly say that this post is fear mongering rather me sharing latest news link that I provide once in a while.

If you can find me a posting where I say do not go to pharmacy school or infer not to, I will retire from SDN. I have however openingly reject new diploma mills (Touro NY) and. Personally every professional in any field would think that diploma mills are a big problem. Although I understand St. Johns Fisher is a new school in NYS, dont worry. I have nothing against them as they are opening in an underserved area (upstate NY) where competition into the UB program is hard.

Lastly, when the heck have I ever brought up the money issue? Maybe this is what you are thinking? You posts really stumpifies me with poor accusations that have no factual basis.

Sanrevelle, click on ignore button please. I did for you already.
 
Yes, you must be quite proud. Your personal crusade is having quite the impact. Are you that insecure about your worth/marketability as a pharmacist that you're trying to personally scare everyone out of the field? This issue shouldn't bother you in the least, you've got your degree and you seem to be fairly sure of both your future and the future of the profession. You certainly come off that way in your posts. Yet here you are, standing on a soapbox trying to self-righteously fear monger to people as if your own cushy career depends on it. Are you that worried that some new graduate from some "diploma mill" will come and snatch up your job?

I wonder who is in the field more for the paycheck; a pre-pharmacy student who knows hard times are coming and is still pursuing the field anyway, or someone like you who is desperately trying to keep them at bay.

There is no point to offend OP. He brings up a valid point and is not trying to scare people away from pharmacy - he is just bringing awareness. There are opening way too many pharmacy schools. You might be incoming pharmacy student and be super excited about the profession, nothing wrong with it. But you also have to look at the practical side of issue. Most likely you will have $100,000+ in loans, and you do not know how oversupply will affect your job prospects. What happens if because of oversupply you cannot find a job or pharmacist salaries go down? Keep in mind you will have to pay these $100,000+ back, and this is not small amount of money. How long will it take you to pay it back without a job or $60,000 salary? Think about this.
 
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People who post in these threads always remind me of people who bought into the idea that the real estate market was going to keep going up and up...

The OP obviously feels very passionately about the issue. I don't think he is trying to fear monger or anything of that nature. The people who claim he is fear mongering are the ones who come across as insecure.

As for me, of course I hope there will be tons of jobs and everything will just be peachy keen when I graduate. I am looking forward to providing excellent patient care, but I will be the first to admit I want to make money when I graduate and at least be able to pay back these monstrous student loans. However, I don't plan to stick my head in the sand and go about thinking everything is just wonderful. It's always good to keep an open mind.
 
we're not saying what he says is wrong. what we're saying is that it's been said one too many times


No it hasn't. If you don't like it, don't read it. If I choose to repeat vancomycin kills MRSA on every other post here, then it's what it is.

I for one knew nothing about the USNWR. If you're a good pharmacy student or pharmacist, you got nothing to worry about the fearmongering. I do feel bad for some students coming out today with no jobs lined up because I've been there. But there's nothing wrong with talking about this topic...even if it's been talked about 3 times previously.
 
People who post in these threads always remind me of people who bought into the idea that the real estate market was going to keep going up and up...


What about those people who's said million times that the real estate bubble will pop one day and when it happens, I would gobble it up....

Well, it's time to gobble like a turkey...I think.
 
Yes, you must be quite proud. Your personal crusade is having quite the impact. Are you that insecure about your worth/marketability as a pharmacist that you're trying to personally scare everyone out of the field? This issue shouldn't bother you in the least, you've got your degree and you seem to be fairly sure of both your future and the future of the profession. You certainly come off that way in your posts. Yet here you are, standing on a soapbox trying to self-righteously fear monger to people as if your own cushy career depends on it. Are you that worried that some new graduate from some "diploma mill" will come and snatch up your job?

I wonder who is in the field more for the paycheck; a pre-pharmacy student who knows hard times are coming and is still pursuing the field anyway, or someone like you who is desperately trying to keep them at bay.

And if OP gets his wish, who will it benefit? All of us. You included.
 
I think you are a pretty insecure guy. I have yet to recognize what is the significance of your posting? Maybe you are a troll?

As a SDN poster who have been here for years, I have a record of posting on practically every thread there is. If the majority of the forum's thread includes job shortages, diploma mills, etc (started by other posters), I will post and state my opinion. If you dont want to hear it, feel free to click on the ignore button.

I would hardly say that this post is fear mongering rather me sharing latest news link that I provide once in a while.

If you can find me a posting where I say do not go to pharmacy school or infer not to, I will retire from SDN. I have however openingly reject new diploma mills (Touro NY) and. Personally every professional in any field would think that diploma mills are a big problem. Although I understand St. Johns Fisher is a new school in NYS, dont worry. I have nothing against them as they are opening in an underserved area (upstate NY) where competition into the UB program is hard.

Lastly, when the heck have I ever brought up the money issue? Maybe this is what you are thinking? You posts really stumpifies me with poor accusations that have no factual basis.

Sanrevelle, click on ignore button please. I did for you already.

"Non-factual assumptions". So says the guy who asked me what I would do if my hypothetical spouse can't find a job in Detroit. I probably was a little terse in my reply, and I certainly didn't mean to offend; my apologies if I did. It wasn't aimed at you specifically, it was moreso an across the board statement because it's irritating to see these posts, and it has become quite a dead horse (referring to me as a lemming and implying I have no common sense did kinda piss me off though).

Here are some facts for everyone who wants to keep waving "saturation" and "surplus" in my face. Buffalo isn't saturated. Western New York, as a whole, is still a very underserved area. Telling me that LA and Chicago have too many pharmacists is all well and good, and I don't doubt that fact, but it's painfully irrelevant in my case. I'm not living in either area, I'm living in a region that's only had one pharmacy school up until a few years ago. Now it has two, and most of the people going to SJF aren't from Buffalo anyway. D'Youville is opening, but I will already have graduated by the time they pump out their first batch of pharmacists. It's not an area many people want to move to, so you don't have people from other schools moving here. Bottom line is, I'll have a job, and if there's a little more competition to get the job, then so be it. It's also a cheap area to live in, so if I'm only making 70,000 a year, that's not such a problem. I can find plenty of places where rent only costs me about $300/month; if I have to live like a pauper for a few years in order to take a big chomp out of my student loans, then so be it. I'm not very materialistic, I'll manage.

I said a long time ago on the forum that I believe this issue will be self-correcting. All it will take is major saturation to occur in a few key areas, and suddenly pharmacy school will stop attracting everyone in sight. Once that happens, many schools in the saturated areas will likely either shut down or severely reduce their class size, depending on whether they opened in response to a legitimate regional need or just saw dollar signs and said "me, too!" This isn't the end of the world, and while I understand your passion towards the subject, it's really a situation where I'd rather worry about my own interests. Let me get myself into a good career situation where it behooves my employer to keep me around, and let the pharmacy situation sort itself out naturally.

I fail to see how SJF creating a JD program makes them a diploma mill. Rochester is wildly underserved in pretty much everything, and the city is starting to become a smaller-scale version of Buffalo (shrinking economy, people moving, etc). It's common knowledge that there's too many JD's these days, but Rochester doesn't have a surplus of anything other than snow.
 
What about those people who's said million times that the real estate bubble will pop one day and when it happens, I would gobble it up....

Well, it's time to gobble like a turkey...I think.

I say gobble away! I know I would if I had any dinero. Alas, I am nothing but a penniless pharmacy student...
 
http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/best-careers/2008/12/11/best-careers-2009-pharmacist.html

I bet you the editor read our posts... good job guys on getting the news out!

"Good news and bad news on the job market: The good news is that current demand is strong and that more pharmacy schools are opening, which will make it easier for you to get in. The bad news is that those new schools will be pumping out lots of new graduates, which will make it harder to land a job."

Another good news is that now public/media have acknowledged the problem regarding opening new schools and the potential oversupply.

Thanks people for getting the words out!
 
http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/best-careers/2008/12/11/best-careers-2009-pharmacist.html

I bet you the editor read our posts... good job guys on getting the news out!

"Good news and bad news on the job market: The good news is that current demand is strong and that more pharmacy schools are opening, which will make it easier for you to get in. The bad news is that those new schools will be pumping out lots of new graduates, which will make it harder to land a job."

What a second, can't you just get your 3 year "druggist degree" online at the University of Phoenix? I could have sworn I saw that implied elsewhere.:laugh:
 
I like WVUs tiered system that he came up somewhere else. I think the bottom bunch should be easy.

Ah, the "decent", "kinda sketchy", and "completely sketchy" scale. The best scale there is.

Examples:

Decent: USC, Texas, Minnesota, Colorado, WVU, Pitt, Rutgers, Florida, UNC (ok...well...most schools...)
Kinda Sketchy: Florida A&M, Xavier, Nova (sorry Spi)
Completely Sketchy: Cal Northsate, D'Youville

I also thought about having a "Pants-on-head-******ed" category that would only include HICP...but since they are now defunct, I suppose its pointless.

I think my scale would revolutionize the pharmacy world. And I hope its adopted. Like adopted as in I want a school described as "kinda sketchy" to appear in Pharmacotherapy.
 
Ah, the "decent", "kinda sketchy", and "completely sketchy" scale. The best scale there is.

Examples:

Decent: USC, Texas, Minnesota, Colorado, WVU, Pitt, Rutgers, Florida, UNC (ok...well...most schools...)
Kinda Sketchy: Florida A&M, Xavier, Nova (sorry Spi)
Completely Sketchy: Cal Northsate, D'Youville

I also thought about having a "Pants-on-head-******ed" category that would only include HICP...but since they are now defunct, I suppose its pointless.

I think my scale would revolutionize the pharmacy world. And I hope its adopted. Like adopted as in I want a school described as "kinda sketchy" to appear in Pharmacotherapy.

Haha...I've got no beef. At least not nowadays anyways. My sister will be applying to Rx school next year, and I told her myself NSU is off limits. At least for the time being.

She did ask me about WVU though! She's a basketball girl...so I can see her picking somewhere like UNC, Kentucky...maybe Kansas.


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Haha...I've got no beef. At least not nowadays anyways. My sister will be applying to Rx school next year, and I told her myself NSU is off limits. At least for the time being.

She did ask me about WVU though! She's a basketball girl...so I can see her picking somewhere like UNC, Kentucky...maybe Kansas.


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You know her future would be secured if she went to USC.
 
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Haha...I've got no beef. At least not nowadays anyways. My sister will be applying to Rx school next year, and I told her myself NSU is off limits. At least for the time being.

She did ask me about WVU though! She's a basketball girl...so I can see her picking somewhere like UNC, Kentucky...maybe Kansas.


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WVU has Huggins...and they are rated top 10 preseason next year. They are the new nat'l power...serously...
 
Jock Sanders and Noel Devine were driving around Morgantown in a brand new Dodge Charger and Dodge Magnum with hemis respectively the last year or so. Both come from dirt poor families and are cruising around in $35, $40k sports cars. Mmmhmm. WVU's clean, too. 🙄

And Percy had some pretty rocks in his ears during the 'bama game.

Though I suppose they could've been cubic zirconias! 😛


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"Non-factual assumptions". So says the guy who asked me what I would do if my hypothetical spouse can't find a job in Detroit. I probably was a little terse in my reply, and I certainly didn't mean to offend; my apologies if I did. It wasn't aimed at you specifically, it was moreso an across the board statement because it's irritating to see these posts, and it has become quite a dead horse (referring to me as a lemming and implying I have no common sense did kinda piss me off though).

Here are some facts for everyone who wants to keep waving "saturation" and "surplus" in my face. Buffalo isn't saturated. Western New York, as a whole, is still a very underserved area. Telling me that LA and Chicago have too many pharmacists is all well and good, and I don't doubt that fact, but it's painfully irrelevant in my case. I'm not living in either area, I'm living in a region that's only had one pharmacy school up until a few years ago. Now it has two, and most of the people going to SJF aren't from Buffalo anyway. D'Youville is opening, but I will already have graduated by the time they pump out their first batch of pharmacists. It's not an area many people want to move to, so you don't have people from other schools moving here. Bottom line is, I'll have a job, and if there's a little more competition to get the job, then so be it. It's also a cheap area to live in, so if I'm only making 70,000 a year, that's not such a problem. I can find plenty of places where rent only costs me about $300/month; if I have to live like a pauper for a few years in order to take a big chomp out of my student loans, then so be it. I'm not very materialistic, I'll manage.

I said a long time ago on the forum that I believe this issue will be self-correcting. All it will take is major saturation to occur in a few key areas, and suddenly pharmacy school will stop attracting everyone in sight. Once that happens, many schools in the saturated areas will likely either shut down or severely reduce their class size, depending on whether they opened in response to a legitimate regional need or just saw dollar signs and said "me, too!" This isn't the end of the world, and while I understand your passion towards the subject, it's really a situation where I'd rather worry about my own interests. Let me get myself into a good career situation where it behooves my employer to keep me around, and let the pharmacy situation sort itself out naturally.

I fail to see how SJF creating a JD program makes them a diploma mill. Rochester is wildly underserved in pretty much everything, and the city is starting to become a smaller-scale version of Buffalo (shrinking economy, people moving, etc). It's common knowledge that there's too many JD's these days, but Rochester doesn't have a surplus of anything other than snow.

Not to be unprofessional or anything but your situation does not relate to reality at all. First of all, schools will "not" just close down. Second of all, what does money have to do with anything?

This subject isnt so much about money as what is BEST for our profession.
 
Not to be unprofessional or anything but your situation does not relate to reality at all. First of all, schools will "not" just close down. Second of all, what does money have to do with anything?

This subject isnt so much about money as what is BEST for our profession.

You're probably right, new schools won't close. But something in academia will ultimately change once the surplus hits. If pharmacy is suddenly less attractive because of several crowded markets, enrollment will go down severely (especially in the wake of so many new schools), and schools will have to respond in turn. And no, that won't start attracting more idiots to the field, they'll still be scared off by all of that "stupid math and science that makes no sense". The JD degree is a liberal arts/literary type degree, clueless students flock to those far moreso than any math or science field.

What does money have to do with anything? How about the fact that a lot of new schools in highly populated areas are opening because of it? Or that the most common complaint about the forthcoming surplus is the worry that students won't make enough to be able to pay back their loans? People should be more mindful of what's best for the profession, but unfortunately, many new schools (especially ones popping up in already crowded markets) aren't mindful of that at all, so in the interim, as I stated before, I've carefully examined my situation and am looking solely into what's best for me. That's not being insecure. That's me knowing more about my situation than the people who tell me at every turn on this forum that I won't have a job in the future.
 
a coworker who moved here from Buffalo about 6 mos ago said that Buffalo is saturated, especially for hospital positions.
 
a coworker who moved here from Buffalo about 6 mos ago said that Buffalo is saturated, especially for hospital positions.

Definitely is from what I've seen. The PGY-2 resident at my hospital hasn't been able to even find a staffing job within a 45 minute drive.
Finding a good retail spot is out of the question as well. The grocery store that funded St. John Fisher can't find jobs for its own interns, let alone anyone else.
 
a coworker who moved here from Buffalo about 6 mos ago said that Buffalo is saturated, especially for hospital positions.

Saturated in all of Western New York, or just in the five rich areas immediately adjacent to Buffalo? I could see the latter (and that's fine, I'm not anxiously hoping to land a job at ECMC or a retail job in Amherst), but if it's the former, I call bull****. No way has UB produced enough graduates for all of WNY.
 
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Saturated in all of Western New York, or just in the five rich areas immediately adjacent to Buffalo? I could see the latter (and that's fine, I'm not anxiously hoping to land a job at ECMC or a retail job in Amherst), but if it's the former, I call bull****. No way has UB produced enough graduates for all of WNY.

If you just described ECMC as being in one of the five rich areas around Buffalo, you need to pick up a dictionary. The East Side of Buffalo is one of the poorest areas in the city, if not the country.

I'm noticing a theme in your posts: you always bring things back to what 'you' want. Maybe some people don't want their salaries cut. Maybe they want that job in the nice area with the good school district. You might be fine working in podunk for peanuts, but other people have brighter aspirations.
 
If you just described ECMC as being in one of the five rich areas around Buffalo, you need to pick up a dictionary. The East Side of Buffalo is one of the poorest areas in the city, if not the country.

I'm noticing a theme in your posts: you always bring things back to what 'you' want. Maybe some people don't want their salaries cut. Maybe they want that job in the nice area with the good school district. You might be fine working in podunk for peanuts, but other people have brighter aspirations.

ECMC isn't a city. Very good. However, it is a prevalent hospital, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who are applying to work there as a clinical pharmacist.

Yes, my posts are all centered around what I want, partly because the opposite viewpoint of mine thus far has been people telling me what I won't have based on pure assumption (and yes, before anyone starts spouting "facts" or the old "I heard from such and such", anything you tell me about my own personal future is mere assumption), but mostly because, well, I'm going to be working to support myself, so of course I'm going to have my own interests in mind. Everyone seems dead set on telling the current pre-pharm and incoming P1 students about how none of them will have jobs and the field is doomed. If you'd like to snub your nose at me or my future ambitions, that's one thing, but your disagreement with my viewpoint does not equal me not being able to find a job.
 
ECMC isn't a city. Very good. However, it is a prevalent hospital, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who are applying to work there as a clinical pharmacist..


I never said it was a city, nor did you. You implied that it was in a rich area.


Yes, my posts are all centered around what I want, partly because the opposite viewpoint of mine thus far has been people telling me what I won't have based on pure assumption (and yes, before anyone starts spouting "facts" or the old "I heard from such and such", anything you tell me about my own personal future is mere assumption), but mostly because, well, I'm going to be working to support myself, so of course I'm going to have my own interests in mind. Everyone seems dead set on telling the current pre-pharm and incoming P1 students about how none of them will have jobs and the field is doomed. If you'd like to snub your nose at me or my future ambitions, that's one thing, but your disagreement with my viewpoint does not equal me not being able to find a job.

If you have your best interests in mind, then you would be right along with us. With less competition, it will be easier for you to find a job. You'll get paid more. Not to mention the respect that might come from having a degree that is still worth something.
 
[/COLOR]

I never said it was a city, nor did you. You implied that it was in a rich area.




If you have your best interests in mind, then you would be right along with us. With less competition, it will be easier for you to find a job. You'll get paid more. Not to mention the respect that might come from having a degree that is still worth something.


Didn't mean to imply it was in a rich area, moreso that it was a hot spot for applicants as it one of the more known hospitals around the area.

I do agree, although it may put me in a bit of a glass house situation, that certain areas have opened too many schools. However, the situation is what it is, and it's unlikely any of these new schools are going away, even when the myth of shortage is dead and gone and replaced by the common knowledge of a surplus. With that in mind, the most beneficial course of action I can take is to make sure that my own situation is as favorable as possible. I have pretty low expectations in life, it doesn't take much for me to be content, and somebody has to work out in the sticks. Basically, I'll go anywhere that will give me a steady position and a reasonable salary, and I'm optimistic that I can find that somewhere in WNY.