subandrew1

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Was wondering if anyone from USC could give me more info on this. I heard that one's required to maintain a 3.0 by the end of his/her third year as well as pass a compentency exam to move onto rotations. What are the consequences of not meeting these requirements? Kicked out for good?
 

Doc Hawaii

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I'm only a P1, so take what I write with a grain of salt.....

Cumulative GPA must be 3.0+, but I remember the assistant dean mentioning a 2.8+ for the first semester or yr. Best not to place yourself in that position-so kill the first set of exams (this year we had/are having a mid-term and finals week of 4 and 5 exams back-to-back respectively). If you perform poorly on an exam, seek out the course coordinators, tutoring with friends/Rho Chi, etc. Do not wait until the last minute before asking for help. Stay on top of things, and you may find the classes less difficult than undergrad. Most lectures are recorded, powerpoints are online, and some classes have clicker quizzes that count as extra-credit (e.g. Pharmacy Practice, Biosystems (Physiology)). According to upperclassmen, those points make a huge difference (approx. half a letter grade for full marks). The lowest quiz score is dropped too. Not a bad deal at all.

As far as the end of 3rd yr exam, I heard that you get 1 chance to retake, but I do not know what happens if you fail again. My information is limited, but there is another board member who might want to further elaborate, and who has actually taken the test.

If you fail a class, then you are held back 1 yr, where you get the pleasure of retaking it again. Do not take the classes lightly, overconfidence can = failure. Failing a class by 1% is very tough medicine to swallow.
 

Grizaholic17

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If you are serious about being a pharmacist, and passionate about patient care and wanting to learn the fundamentals of pharmacy...the 3.0 GPA is of no worry to you. Each pharmacy class is of the most superb students. Averages on exams usually run in the 80s, so a 3.0 GPA is not out of the realm of possibility :)
 

Farmercyst

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I hit a 2.97 at the end of 1 semester, 2nd year. Got a academic probation letter. You basically get 1 semester to bring it up. 2 consecutive semesters on academic probation gets you a visit with the dean. They can make you repeat, kick you out, or whatever, depending on how easily they feel you can get over the 3.0 limit. Because they don't WANT to lose anyone, the average gravitates around a mid-B level. I'm up to 3.2 something now and should be ~3.4 by end of rotations. All-in-all, if you know your limits and operate within them, it's not terribly difficult.
 

ucrx

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If you are serious about being a pharmacist, and passionate about patient care and wanting to learn the fundamentals of pharmacy...the 3.0 GPA is of no worry to you. Each pharmacy class is of the most superb students. Averages on exams usually run in the 80s, so a 3.0 GPA is not out of the realm of possibility :)
I would ask what school you go to, but that is clearly stated in your signature. :) Exam averages in the 80s weren't all that common at my school. Not that the averages were awful, but I wouldn't say 80s were the norm. Grades vary between schools. I think I would be more concerned with the typical grades and averages at that school before worrying what happens if a student doesn't meet the requirement.
 

rph3664

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Does your school do grade inflation? When I was in school, a cumulative 3.0 was quite unusual. Yes, the classes were that difficult.
 

297point1

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If you are serious about being a pharmacist, and passionate about patient care and wanting to learn the fundamentals of pharmacy...the 3.0 GPA is of no worry to you. Each pharmacy class is of the most superb students. Averages on exams usually run in the 80s, so a 3.0 GPA is not out of the realm of possibility :)
Is either the University of Montana or USC located near Lake Wobegon? You know, the mythical place where "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average"?

If so, you need to add something to that phrase about the cognitive abilities of student pharmacists.
 

flip33

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Does your school do grade inflation? When I was in school, a cumulative 3.0 was quite unusual. Yes, the classes were that difficult.
If everyone graduating is getting over 3.0 then things have changed over the years. A grade of C used to be "average".

I would like to see how these grades are distributed on a normal curve and see how they compare with regard to other schools and graduation years.

I don't think a 3.0 was ever unusual, but it was good.
 

Farmercyst

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If everyone graduating is getting over 3.0 then things have changed over the years. A grade of C used to be "average".

I would like to see how these grades are distributed on a normal curve and see how they compare with regard to other schools and graduation years.

I don't think a 3.0 was ever unusual, but it was good.
When you're not allowed into 4th year clerkships without a 3.0, the bell-shaped curve tends to shift right.
 

bacillus1

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If everyone graduating is getting over 3.0 then things have changed over the years. A grade of C used to be "average".

I would like to see how these grades are distributed on a normal curve and see how they compare with regard to other schools and graduation years.

I don't think a 3.0 was ever unusual, but it was good.
Depends on the school. In my program averages are usually around a 70-75 (was a 60 on our P&T infectious diseases exam, and that's worth 25% of the grade, and there will be no curving). We need to get a 2.3 each semester to stay in though. They are upping those GPA by a lot for current P1s, and the professors aren't really thinking of inflating the grades. Their excuse is "well we didn't design the new rules". So I hope half the classes don't fail out.
 

themorphinerule

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A High GPA requirement?? This is glorious news since I bore witness to the idiots that load/dump and skate by on C's just to get the paper (salary and PharmD). I'm excited that since we can't stop the stupid accrediting body from refusing to open up SOP's, maybe we as a profession should demand stricter standards. I know too many people who know jack crap at P4's about pharmacy because they knew they were going into retail, and retail is considered the bottom of the bucket for healthcare-- not saying retail pharmacists don't provide a great service, but that role cannot be expanded if "our" idiots don't start learning and maintaining their grades. It's already starting.. class of 2011 is feeling the sting of what might be to come. Only rural positions 150-300 mi from any major city (yes, I researched each and every last location). I maintain that a 20 yr old straight out of high school and pre-req's is not mature or disciplined or charactered enough to be a medical professional. It's why we get half the "GPA"question postings on here. P.S. From my understanding BSN programs have higher standards that pharmacy as they are allowed to get 2 grades lower than a B before they're out (word of mouth from a pharm school friend who was BSN track before). I'm sure that varies by school, but I can count on my fingers how many grades below a B I got in pharmacy school, some people need their hands, mine and any other volunteers, which is sad because the curriculum is not tough, it just requires discipline and not wanting to go party with your friends every night when you know you should be studying.

Sincerely,

OldFart
 

airen

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I hit a 2.97 at the end of 1 semester, 2nd year. Got a academic probation letter. You basically get 1 semester to bring it up. 2 consecutive semesters on academic probation gets you a visit with the dean. They can make you repeat, kick you out, or whatever, depending on how easily they feel you can get over the 3.0 limit. Because they don't WANT to lose anyone, the average gravitates around a mid-B level. I'm up to 3.2 something now and should be ~3.4 by end of rotations. All-in-all, if you know your limits and operate within them, it's not terribly difficult.
I heard by next year, the APPE's will be P/NP. I don't know how I feel about that since alot of P4's use the last year to up their GPA's. Have you heard anythhing regarding this transition?
 

Farmercyst

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I heard by next year, the APPE's will be P/NP. I don't know how I feel about that since alot of P4's use the last year to up their GPA's. Have you heard anythhing regarding this transition?
Not a lot. I've heard rumblings, and it probably will end up that way. I'd have probably paid more attention, but I was at 3.2 by the end of 3rd year, so it didn't matter to me much at the time. Though with graded rotations, I should be at 3.4+ by graduation. One residency I'm applying to wants my "pre-rotation" GPA. I'm thinking they've caught on.;)
 

airen

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Not a lot. I've heard rumblings, and it probably will end up that way. I'd have probably paid more attention, but I was at 3.2 by the end of 3rd year, so it didn't matter to me much at the time. Though with graded rotations, I should be at 3.4+ by graduation. One residency I'm applying to wants my "pre-rotation" GPA. I'm thinking they've caught on.;)
LOL, pre-rotation GPA! Oh man, that one residency site sure caught on. Thanks Farmercyst! You're almost done! Are you applying for inpatient residencies? Do you feel its necessary to work at an inpatient site in order to be favored for a residency spot (let's say you and another candidate have all stats that are equal - GPA, EC, LOR, interview, etc.) and it comes down to work experience....does it make a huge difference if one person worked inpatient and the other person worked outpatient?

Thanks in advance for your input!!

I don't know if you've heard about the latest updates but they removed those standalone chairs/seats from the back of the lecture halls, both 108 and 112, and to accomodate the ~15 students who may not have a seat in the lecture halls, they're having these students go to a separate room, PSC 100, to watch the lecture.
 

BMBiology

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I don't know if you've heard about the latest updates but they removed those standalone chairs/seats from the back of the lecture halls, both 108 and 112, and to accomodate the ~15 students who may not have a seat in the lecture halls, they're having these students go to a separate room, PSC 100, to watch the lecture.
glad to know that my alma mater is charging students $40 k a year so they can watch the lectures on a screen. why not just watch the lectures at home? what is the point of attending lectures?
 

Charlottefromca

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For the clicker questions of course :)

SO what do people do if there is a clicker question and they are in the other room? Do they sprint through the hallway to the lecture hall? :rolleyes:
 

Doc Hawaii

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In an email from Dr. Weissman, I vaguely recall that you're supposed to answer on paper or run down/in for the clicker exam.

You just know that tuition will increase at least 2k/yr every year...and we now have to make most of our lecture photocopies (not so for the previous years). I spent well over $100 on just home toner and paper last semester, not including all the printing done at school. It's a relatively small cost overall, but there were thousands of pages to print-and many times the lectures were not available prior to lecture and/or there were problems with the video capture system. It's useful to read over the handouts prior to class.
 

BMBiology

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Wait a minute, you guys have to print lecture notes now?
 

Doc Hawaii

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For some yes, others no. Most of my printing was for biosystems (anat+physio) and healthcare delivery. Some of those lectures are really long. The excuse given was, 'to save trees-to be more green.'

Also, there's no need to purchase any books for semester 1, yr 1-it's a monumental waste of money. Books are on reserve in the library, and/or your personal collection from undergrad will suffice nicely (along with youtube and wikipedia). Some are available online for free too (the library has great resources).

Perhaps certain books may be necessary later (e.g. calculations), but the list is just ridiculously long. I see 6 required, and another 6 recommended texts for semester 2, yr 1.

I am not criticizing the school, just stating facts.
 

airen

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glad to know that my alma mater is charging students $40 k a year so they can watch the lectures on a screen. why not just watch the lectures at home? what is the point of attending lectures?
Oh BMB, I don't know when you graduated SC but it's NOT $40K/year. It's close to $50K. Surprise surprise.

Well, late in the semester, like 2 weeks before final exams, the fire marshals checked out the lectures halls and said USC would be fine if they didn't remove those chairs. So they immediately acted and notified us via email that those chairs would be removed ASAP. Literally the next day, no more chairs!!! At least for one of the classrooms, they changed the carpet.

I also don't know if you know but this past summer they spent ONE MILLION dollars to upgrade the technology, better projecters, etc. I don't see a difference from the old to new technology.

So now, 15 students are asked to VOLUNTEER to attend lecture in a separate room and watch the lecture via a projector or something. My question is, what if they have questions to ask the professor during real-time lecture. LAME!!! These students are required to attend class in this separate room YEAR-ROUND!!! It's terrible. Where's all this tuition money going? professors claim they don't get paid enough (I take it with a grain of salt) but seriously, where's our $$$$ going to??????
 

airen

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For the clicker questions of course :)

SO what do people do if there is a clicker question and they are in the other room? Do they sprint through the hallway to the lecture hall? :rolleyes:
They have all winter break to figure it out!!! I
 

airen

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Wait a minute, you guys have to print lecture notes now?
First year's this year print their own lecture notes. P2 and P3 have notes furnished to them. I feel bad for the P1!!! I'm thankful they're still providing us with lecture notes cuz there are times when the professors run out of time and they skip a bunch of slides here and there, not consecutively so it wastes a lot of paper if slides are skipped sporadically.

Now they're considering changing the APPE from Grades to P/NP. Ugggh!!
 
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has the january invitation sent out for USC?

First year's this year print their own lecture notes. P2 and P3 have notes furnished to them. I feel bad for the P1!!! I'm thankful they're still providing us with lecture notes cuz there are times when the professors run out of time and they skip a bunch of slides here and there, not consecutively so it wastes a lot of paper if slides are skipped sporadically.

Now they're considering changing the APPE from Grades to P/NP. Ugggh!!
 

airen

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has the january invitation sent out for USC?
Haha, I don't know. I'm a current student but I'm not in touch with the interview process. I believe the admission office is closed until Monday. Call back and check. Usually they send out the invitations 2 weeks in advance.

Good luck!