USC/Keck vs. UCLA-Drew: Really Tough Decision

[sunnymed]

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Hey everyone. I have to decide between Keck and the Drew program at UCLA and I am having a heck of a time deciding between the two. Here's what I have so far:

Pros - Drew/UCLA:
- Cost is cheaper
- It's closer to where I live right now (which factors into commute cost too, I guess)
- I think (2 hours a day, if I remember correctly) less time is spent in class, which is good for me because I need my own time to process the information
- I really like the attitude of the people at Drew (I felt like they were passionate about what they were doing)

Pros - Keck:
- Having patient interaction/experiences early in my medical education
- LA County will definitely give me a wide variety of experiences and therefore a lot to learn from
- My classmates seem like they'd be pretty cool
- I did undergrad at UCLA so part of me feels like a change would be good
- The faculty seems awesome
- There seems to be more staff and faculty support at Keck

I'm sure someone else has had to make this decision before so I would truly appreciate your help on this. Really though, any help would be appreciated. This is a really serious matter, so please no trolls allowed on this discussion 😀

 

[172858]

Hey everyone. I have to decide between Keck and the Drew program at UCLA and I am having a heck of a time deciding between the two. Here's what I have so far:

Pros - Drew/UCLA:
- Cost is cheaper
- It's closer to where I live right now (which factors into commute cost too, I guess)
- I think (2 hours a day, if I remember correctly) less time is spent in class, which is good for me because I need my own time to process the information
- I really like the attitude of the people at Drew (I felt like they were passionate about what they were doing)

Pros - Keck:
- Having patient interaction/experiences early in my medical education
- LA County will definitely give me a wide variety of experiences and therefore a lot to learn from
- My classmates seem like they'd be pretty cool
- I did undergrad at UCLA so part of me feels like a change would be good
- The faculty seems awesome
- There seems to be more staff and faculty support at Keck

I'm sure someone else has had to make this decision before so I would truly appreciate your help on this. Really though, any help would be appreciated. This is a really serious matter, so please no trolls allowed on this discussion 😀

First off, congrats to the max man. You do have quite the decision!

Well, honestly, I'm kind of partial to UCLA for obvious reasons. But you're right - LA County seems like it's an amazing clinical environment to learn in. I'm not going to quote arbitrary rankings because 1) you know what they are and 2) I don't put much stock in them. I will say this though:

- Debt is a mother and the less of it you can accumulate, the better. For every dollar you borrow, it seems you'll pay back almost 2.
- UCLA = truly pass/fail. That was a big factor for me.
- I see you're factoring in distance, but 90% of the med students live either in Weyburn (if single - close to school), Rose Ave, or University Village Apartments (if married or with family - VERY cheap)
- You have about 24 total contact hours each week (labs, lecture, meetings, etc). Pretty light load if you ask me - lots of time for independent study.
- UCLA has a wide variety of public and private clinical sites: UCLA Med Center (plus the new Reagan is opening up), Ceder Siani, Santa Monica, MLK (if it opens up), UCLA-harbor, UCLA-olive view...
- At Drew, we get two of everything (2 pre-mat programs, 2 white coat ceremonies, 2 sets of counselors/administration/scholarship sources, 2 deans to write us letters, 2 graduations)
- The Drew mission makes for a unique educational experience that I found to be unlike anything else I saw in the country

I know I pretty much make the case for UCLA, but I'm sure a USC'er can help you with that side of the argument a bit more. If you have any questions, feel free to PM them my way. Best of luck with your decision! 😀

 

[thzone1986]

Hey everyone. I have to decide between Keck and the Drew program at UCLA and I am having a heck of a time deciding between the two. Here's what I have so far:

Pros - Drew/UCLA:
- Cost is cheaper
- It's closer to where I live right now (which factors into commute cost too, I guess)
- I think (2 hours a day, if I remember correctly) less time is spent in class, which is good for me because I need my own time to process the information
- I really like the attitude of the people at Drew (I felt like they were passionate about what they were doing)

Pros - Keck:
1 Having patient interaction/experiences early in my medical education
2 LA County will definitely give me a wide variety of experiences and therefore a lot to learn from
3 My classmates seem like they'd be pretty cool
4 I did undergrad at UCLA so part of me feels like a change would be good
5 The faculty seems awesome
6 There seems to be more staff and faculty support at Keck

I'm sure someone else has had to make this decision before so I would truly appreciate your help on this. Really though, any help would be appreciated. This is a really serious matter, so please no trolls allowed on this discussion 😀

No brainer. UCLA/Drew by far, and to prove I'm not just being a homer I'll go through your Keck pro's:

1) Early patient interaction and experiences are buzzwords thrown by adcoms. The real deal is far less glorious. Exactly what gems of knowledge will you be bestowing on patients in your 1st and 2nd year when you know barely anything about clinical medicine? That being said, UCLA does have a great student-run clinic that lets you get experience with taking patient histories if you're antsy and into that sort of thing.

2) LA County is a great hospital. That being said, the UCLA hospital is 3rd in the nation for a reason. I know you're thinking "oh but LA County is downtown and I'll get to see exciting patients and etc, but the reality is that both are great hospitals. UCLA's happens to be ranked far far higher, and has a new center (Reagan) that will be opening (hopefully by the time you start clinicals).

3) I'm pretty sure I could say this (or convince myself into believing this) for almost any medical school in the country if I got in. Nuff said.

4) Now we're getting to the meat of it. I'll admit, having spent nearly every summer around Westwood I'm getting a little sick of it too. That being said, are you seriously contemplating leaving Westwood, for downtown Exposition Park? (cue gunshots and ambulance). I kid I kid

5) See number three. I personally doubt there will a difference in faculty quality.

6) I don't know enough to comment here. Your impression is your impression. That being said, I would think you're going to be flying solo most of the time in med school anywhere you go.


Lastly, and most importantly is the cost. I think you're underestimating the impact a buttload of debt can be when you're trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel during your residency years. I don't have the figures in front of me (and too lazy to look), but Keck's gotta be ~1.5-2x as expensive as Drew. Two great schools. One is a heck of a lot cheaper and happens to be far more heralded and well known.

Your choice though.

 

[sunnymed]

You guys are giving me great feedback and lots to think about. Thank you so much. Keep it coming! 👍

 

[brogers]

I actually ended up deciding to go with Keck over UCLA (Though I did get aid that made the cost of attendance non-issue).

Having spent my undergraduate years at UCLA, like you I wanted a change of scenery and to experience a patient population that would allow a greater degree of education in patient interaction. I have relatives who attended both medical schools (Makes for interesting family reunions), and each of them loved their experience at their respective school. However my cousin who went to UCLA had a vastly different experience when it came to clinical experience than my cousin who went to USC. In the case of the latter, he was actually able to have a pretty significant amount of interaction with the patient population, improving his medical spanish and even being permitted to take part in procedures early on due to the nature of County Hospital. UCLA has amazing hospital facilities, but as most of its patients are paying for their healthcare, they choose not to allow medical students any significant interaction (which I can respect), which left a bitter taste in my cousin's mouth, as he was often not allowed to even talk with patients who demanded to have their own physician deal with all aspects of their treatment.

It is unfortunate that the clients at County Hospital lack healthcare insurance and the funds to pay for medical care, but it does allow students a greater amount of interaction with patients who seem more grateful to have someone to talk to (student or physician) about their ailment. Will it be that significant in your education? I don't really know as I am only relying on the advice of family members and mentors, but I know that personally it will be a provide a nice release from the books.

That all said, I would ultimately go with wherever makes the most financial sense (In your case UCLA). They are both amazing schools with curriculums and faculty that will provide you with a top notch education, so might as well reduce the amount of debt on your shoulders.

 

[paradocs we are]

Cali schools are hard to get into! Congrats!!!!!! Glad you have a choice. 🙂

 

[flaahless]

Yo G, congrats on your success. I was also accepted to both programs and I would have chosen Keck had I stayed in LA.

Drew is a great program, and UCLA is a great school, but I honestly believe that Keck offers one of the best medical educations in the country. Their board scores are astronomical and their clinical education is among the best. Sure UCLA has a higher ranked hospital, but I guarantee that you will learn more medicine and develop into a stronger clinician at Keck.

Now the price tag of a keck education is a bit disconcerting. If money is an issue to you, I'd choose Drew. If it isn't, I'd choose Keck.

 

[sunnymed]

You guys are awesome!! 😀 I'm so happy that you all are giving me such great things to think about.

Ok, can you guys think of what are the cons for both Keck and UCLA/Drew that I should really consider?

 

[pntgrd]

Why would you get better clinical training at County than at Harbor/Drew (if it reopens)/UCLA/Cedars/Kaiser. I think the latter is a more complete clinical experience.

 

[flaahless]

Why would you get better clinical training at County than at Harbor/Drew (if it reopens)/UCLA/Cedars/Kaiser. I think the latter is a more complete clinical experience.

Because at County you get the autonomy of an intern and your education is MUCH more hands on than any other hospital in the country.

 

[thzone1986]

Because at County you get the autonomy of an intern and your education is MUCH more hands on than any other hospital in the country.

I would think that's rather dangerous to patients to let a 1st year to have the autonomy of an intern. 😱

 

[flaahless]

I would think that's rather dangerous to patients to let a 1st year to have the autonomy of an intern. 😱

I think it's fantastic and gives Keck students an excellent clinical foundation, among the best in the country.

 

[BioMedPS]

I would think that's rather dangerous to patients to let a 1st year to have the autonomy of an intern. 😱

Completely agree.

 

[flaahless]

Completely agree.

Because you have an obvious bias.

 

[BioMedPS]

Because you have an obvious bias.

Oh yeah, I'm biased. You're one to talk. Sounds like you're still bitter about not getting into UCLA. 🙄

 

[flaahless]

Oh yeah, I'm biased. You're one to talk. Sounds like you're still bitter about not getting into UCLA. 🙄

Ahahaha... low blow. 👍

 

[pntgrd]

Because at County you get the autonomy of an intern and your education is MUCH more hands on than any other hospital in the country.

Your autonomy is not of a first year intern. They would not trust someone with basically no medical knowledge to make decisions and do complex procedures. That would be dumb and dangerous. What I was told there was that they let you do some procedures under the eye of someone above you. This is far different than being an intern.

 

[flaahless]

Your autonomy is not of a first year intern. They would not trust someone with basically no medical knowledge to make decisions and do complex procedures. That would be dumb and dangerous. What I was told there was that they let you do some procedures under the eye of someone above you. This is far different than being an intern.

Man, they said, "you get the autonomy of an intern during your 3rd and 4th year clinical rotations." But even if they don't, LA County needs all the help it can get and I'm certain that Keck students receive more autonomy than students at other institutions.

 

[pntgrd]

Man, they said, "you get the autonomy of an intern during your 3rd and 4th year clinical rotations." But even if they don't, LA County needs all the help it can get and I'm certain that Keck students receive more autonomy than students at other institutions.

This is true.

 

[thzone1986]

Man, they said, "you get the autonomy of an intern during your 3rd and 4th year clinical rotations." But even if they don't, LA County needs all the help it can get and I'm certain that Keck students receive more autonomy than students at other institutions.

County is one of the most flooded hospitals in the city especially for those without insurance. It's understandable how they might use buzzwords like that. Still I would be very wary about choosing a school solely on the merits of "I hear you get more autonomy." Unless someone has actually rotated at both hospitals, I'll take his/her word with a (large) grain of salt.

Go with the concrete, and in this case, it's the near $20k a year the OP would save in tuition.

 

[SaveThisLabRat]

You get autonomy at County because they're flooded with patients. I could probably get partial autonomy right now.

 

[172858]

County is one of the most flooded hospitals in the city especially for those without insurance. It's understandable how they might use buzzwords like that. Still I would be very wary about choosing a school solely on the merits of "I hear you get more autonomy." Unless someone has actually rotated at both hospitals, I'll take his/her word with a (large) grain of salt.

Go with the concrete, and in this case, it's the near $20k a year the OP would save in tuition.

Maybe it's just me, but since both schools are all-around amazing, this should be the single determining factor.

What, you people don't like money?

 

[thzone1986]

Your autonomy is not of a first year intern. They would not trust someone with basically no medical knowledge to make decisions and do complex procedures. That would be dumb and dangerous. What I was told there was that they let you do some procedures under the eye of someone above you. This is far different than being an intern.

👍 I think many premeds and even incoming MS1's don't realize how little they will know in terms of clinical knowledge even at the end of their 2nd year. You know a ton of book-knowledge, but that's it.

To Flaahless, no offense meant but when you start panicking and getting confused the first (20 or so) times you take a patient's SOAP/history notes you'll wish there was an attending nearby to guide you. Seen it too many times at the clinics I volunteered at.

 

[sunnymed]

You guy definitely hit on one of the main pulls for me going to Keck. I'm a hands-on and visual learner so although as a first year I won't be doing anything major with the patients (thank god for them and me ), being a part of the experience will help me solidify information better.

So maybe not in the 1st semester or anything, but do you guys know if there is there something like that in the first 2 years at UCLA?

 

[Long Dong]

Man, they said, "you get the autonomy of an intern during your 3rd and 4th year clinical rotations." But even if they don't, LA County needs all the help it can get and I'm certain that Keck students receive more autonomy than students at other institutions.

dude harbor ucla and olive view are county hospitals too, you know. So I say go to ucla/drew, I did and loved every minute of it except ob/gyn.

 

[Long Dong]

You guy definitely hit on one of the main pulls for me going to Keck. I'm a hands-on and visual learner so although as a first year I won't be doing anything major with the patients (thank god for them and me ), being a part of the experience will help me solidify information better.

So maybe not in the 1st semester or anything, but do you guys know if there is there something like that in the first 2 years at UCLA?

You get assigned a preceptor in 1st and 2nd year so once a month you go to their clinic and follow them around get a chance to start taking histories on real patients and do things like lines and parts of the physical exam. But until 3rd year I don't think any med students should be doing a full H&P.

 

[UCLAstudent]

Man, they said, "you get the autonomy of an intern during your 3rd and 4th year clinical rotations." But even if they don't, LA County needs all the help it can get and I'm certain that Keck students receive more autonomy than students at other institutions.

You'll have a similar experience at Olive View and especially at Harbor-UCLA (which has become a heck of a lot busier since the closing of MLK/Drew).

Also, it's true that you'll have more responsibility (read: carry more patients) and hands-on experience at hospitals for the underserved, but in no way will you have the same autonomy as an intern. It's not as if you magically develop all sorts of clinical skills once you finish MS2 and begin working on the wards. Heck, I'm almost done with MS3, and, looking back, it's almost embarrassing how little I knew (clinically) when I started the school year. 😳

 

[UCLAstudent]

Oops, I kinda posted the same thing as Long Dong. 🙂

 

[thzone1986]

You guy definitely hit on one of the main pulls for me going to Keck. I'm a hands-on and visual learner so although as a first year I won't be doing anything major with the patients (thank god for them and me ), being a part of the experience will help me solidify information better.

So maybe not in the 1st semester or anything, but do you guys know if there is there something like that in the first 2 years at UCLA?

Sunny whatever place you go to in the end, I don't think you can make a truly wrong decision here. Both schools are quality schools and LA is a great place to be a med student any way you argue. But I would question your line of reasoning here:

County is more of a "man the floodgates" hospital in terms of getting swamped by low-income/uninsured/perhaps more needy patients (although all LA hospitals have been taking a hit with MLK closed last year).

However, patient volume (and desperation) != how 'hands on' your first 2 years will be. Seriously, a hospital is more complicated than that. The best hospitals in this country are not simply the most swamped. (and a hospital's ranking IS a meaningful indication of the quality of care.)

With that in mind, I would urge you to do at least head over to the Allopathic forum and ask the med students (or any doctors you may know) what "hands on" in the first 2 years actually means (and amounts to). I'd be interested in hearing it from the source as well.

 

[Long Dong]

Drew is a great program, and UCLA is a great school, but I honestly believe that Keck offers one of the best medical educations in the country. Their board scores are astronomical and their clinical education is among the best. Sure UCLA has a higher ranked hospital, but I guarantee that you will learn more medicine and develop into a stronger clinician at Keck.

I have no idea were you are getting this from, I'll just chalk it up to alot of premed speculation.

County is more of a "man the floodgates" hospital in terms of getting swamped by low-income/uninsured/perhaps more needy patients (although all LA hospitals have been taking a hit with MLK closed last year).

Agreed at county hospitals students and residents are allowed to do more without attending supervision and the volume is absurd. But do you learn more or do you learn it the wrong way, is debatable.

With that in mind, I would urge you to do at least head over to the Allopathic forum and ask the med students (or any doctors you may know) what "hands on" in the first 2 years actually means (and amounts to). I'd be interested in hearing it from the source as well.

The op is hearing from the source I'm a graduate from ucla/drew/current resident and ucla student is a current 3rd year med student and all the the hands on in the first 2 years actually doesn't mean much at any school cuz like you said you don't know jack yet.

To the OP if you like paying more for your education then by all means choose keck.

 

[sunnymed]

I have no idea were you are getting this from, I'll just chalk it up to alot of premed speculation.


Agreed at county hospitals students and residents are allowed to do more without attending supervision and the volume is absurd. But do you learn more or do you learn it the wrong way, is debatable.


The op is hearing from the source I'm a graduate from ucla/drew/current resident and ucla student is a current 3rd year med student and all the the hands on in the first 2 years actually doesn't mean much at any school cuz like you said you don't know jack yet.

To the OP if you like paying more for your education then by all means choose keck.

Ok, fair enough - especially regarding "do you learn more or do you learn it the wrong way, is debatable" part. That's a great point of view; I hadn't seen that side of it yet.

I do understand what flaahless was saying so please no one attack him. This is what we were told by the Keck students and what I was told by some docs that I have worked with in the past.

From what I hear from Keck students (and again, since I am not there, I suppose this is considered hear-say and their experiences solely), Keck doesn't just throw a 1st year in with a patient and expect them to do a central line. It was more like taking patient histories and as the med student progressed into their 3rd and 4th years, they're given more freedom, but not full-on, you're gonna do all these procedures you're not really trained to do yet.

For me the 'hands-on' experience isn't because I'm want to start poking and prodding right away. For me personally, it's about the patient interaction on a regular basis (even if it may be just taking patient history). It's important because it'll be those patients that will put human side to the endless and anonymous pictures and text that we'll be seeing in our coursework.

I didn't know that ucla offered preceptorships starting 1st year. Now, again please know that I have been UCLA undergrad before thus traumatized by unreponsive professors when I ask this question - Are the med professors at UCLA really motivated to help their students learn?? (My experience as a premed at UCLA is professors not willing to spend a wink of time answering my questions about the course material because they wanted to hurry back to their research.) How would you rank the professors at UCLA?

Any "pro" Keck comments out there?

 

[flaahless]

👍 I think many premeds and even incoming MS1's don't realize how little they will know in terms of clinical knowledge even at the end of their 2nd year. You know a ton of book-knowledge, but that's it.

To Flaahless, no offense meant but when you start panicking and getting confused the first (20 or so) times you take a patient's SOAP/history notes you'll wish there was an attending nearby to guide you. Seen it too many times at the clinics I volunteered at.

County isn't for everyone. Some can handle it and some can't.

 

[chrisisinnocent]

- Having patient interaction/experiences early in my medical education

This sounds great on paper but it's useless. Go with UCLA.

 

[flaahless]

I have no idea were you are getting this from, I'll just chalk it up to alot of premed speculation.

Guarantee was much too strong of a word.

OP,

Both schools and programs are great and you will get an outstanding education at both institutions. Try and pick the program that best fits your personality, and suits your goals in life. And has a better football team.

 

[Mister Pie]

I would choose UCLA.

 

[UCLAstudent]

I didn't know that ucla offered preceptorships starting 1st year. Now, again please know that I have been UCLA undergrad before thus traumatized by unreponsive professors when I ask this question - Are the med professors at UCLA really motivated to help their students learn?? (My experience as a premed at UCLA is professors not willing to spend a wink of time answering my questions about the course material because they wanted to hurry back to their research.) How would you rank the professors at UCLA?

I did undergrad at UCLA and can definitely relate to your comment about the unresponsive professors. The medical school is TOTALLY different --- a breath of fresh air. The majority of professors who lecture are there because they love to teach. Some of them are busier than others, of course, but in general I've found it to be a great learning environment. I feel really well taken care of at UCLA. 👍

I'm sure Keck is great, as well, but besides the fantastic interview day lunch, I can't really comment on it. 🙂

 

[172858]

Guarantee was much too strong of a word.

OP,

Both schools and programs are great and you will get an outstanding education at both institutions. Try and pick the program that best fits your personality, and suits your goals in life. And has a better football team.

OR the one that has a better basketball team despite NOT playing it's players. Everyone can't afford to by athletes like an OJ Mayo or a Reggie Bush. 😀

 

[thzone1986]

OR the one that has a better basketball team despite NOT paying it's players. Everyone can't afford to buy athletes like an OJ Mayo or a Reggie Bush. 😀

Good point, but let's not go there 🙂 (go lakers!)

 

[Long Dong]

County isn't for everyone. Some can handle it and some can't.

Trust me county ain't all that it is cracked up to be. I'm doing my intership at a county hospital and like I said earlier the volume and paper work is absurd. So absurd that I don't have much time to teach my 3rd year students much I just scut them out so I can get most of my paper work done. When I was on surgery and was responsible for 50 patients guess who helped me write the notes. The 3 med student on my team all got to wright 10+ notes each, and do you think anyone went over their notes to see if how well they were done, do you think anyone had the time.

And by your logic since UCLA has 2 county hospitals then the training there must be better.

This sounds great on paper but it's useless. Go with UCLA.

Agreed early patient contact is almost useless without learning most of the path and physical exam. Trust me come third year you will be overloaded with patient contact at almost any med school by the iterns scutting you out. You'll get so overloaded with patient contact that most of the brightest end up going into ROAD specilties to have less patient contact.

I do understand what flaahless was saying so please no one attack him. This is what we were told by the Keck students and what I was told by some docs that I have worked with in the past.

From what I hear from Keck students (and again, since I am not there, I suppose this is considered hear-say and their experiences solely)

No ad hominem here, just attacking the flawed logic of flaahless. And don't believe everything you hear. Of course keck students are going to say how great their school is. You have on this forum uclastudent and I toting about how great ucla is. I don't think any student is gonna say how much their school sucks a$$.

I didn't know that ucla offered preceptorships starting 1st year. Now, again please know that I have been UCLA undergrad before thus traumatized by unreponsive professors when I ask this question - Are the med professors at UCLA really motivated to help their students learn?? (My experience as a premed at UCLA is professors not willing to spend a wink of time answering my questions about the course material because they wanted to hurry back to their research.) How would you rank the professors at UCLA?

I too was an ucla undergrad and the professors sucked a$$ and were very unresponsive. But like uclastudent said the med school is completely different most of them will go out of their way to help you and yes I to felt well taken care of by the med school. Now the derm department is another story.

I'm on call right now and suprised I have the time to respond, cuz trust me at county hospitals you'll get worked. Yes you'll learn but I think you could learn and retain more if you had some time to reflect and read up about what you are doing instead of just running around with you head cut off just trying to keep up.

Oh yeah as for board scores, ucla does pretty well. I'll even say that uclastudent is one of the all time high board scores on sdn and in the country. I didn't do so bad myself.

But the more important question is which school has the hotter undergrads? I say ucla.

 

[atisha]

I don't know if this helps but my uncle went to Keck and did his residency at La County in emergency medicine. When I was stressing about the debt from Keck (I am attending in the fall) he told me that they take his student loan payments out of his pay check every month and he doesn't even notice.

 

[sunnymed]

Oh man! You guys are making it tough to say no to UCLA. 🙂

Do you know if UCLA lectures are taped? I believe Keck does podcasts of their lectures

 

[neurofreak]

go to the less expensive school. like flaahless and others mentioned, debt sucks and it's not worth the extra $60k or whatever it is to go to keck, even if you do like it slightly more.

 

[172858]

Oh man! You guys are making it tough to say no to UCLA. 🙂

Do you know if UCLA lectures are taped? I believe Keck does podcasts of their lectures

Yep - like most schools these days, all lectures are recorded and synced with the power point presentation. But why not just go to lecture? It's only 2 hours each day.

I know the UCLA people will push their school (and the Drew peeps LOVE the Drew program), and the USC peeps will promote USC and county, and if Wash U peeps were here they would talk about how great Wash U is, and so forth and so on ad nauseum.

It seems like you like both schools, could flip a coin to decide, and would be happy at either. So, unless you come from an independently wealthy family, I have to go back to COST. There is no doubt the both USC and UCLA are amazing schools with great clinical affiliations.

But at the end of the day, what is the cost difference? That right there could essentially make your decision for you. Remember - some loans will have you compound the interest into your principle after graduation from medical school, and then possibly again after residency. Some loans allow for a hardship forbearance during residency, but others don't.

For me, financial aid was probably he largest determining factor. But I am personally used to being poor - so when you don't have anything, $$$ is naturally the first to factor into most, if not all, of your decisions.

Ultimately, only you know what's best for you. But if both schools appeal to you to the extent that you can't chose on your qualitative criteria and it's essentially a push, the next logical step in your progression is to use cost as the decider.

P.S. It may seem like I'm pushing UCLA, but I'm not. I thought it was the best place for ME. May not be that way for you. And if Keck were considerably cheaper, I would be saying go to Keck (if you still saw the two school qualitatively equal). But just know this - if you're at UCLA come August, and I hear you say "Man - I'm sure glad I decided to come here," I reserve the right to give you a big fat "I told you so!" 😀

 

[ChristianJames1]

I don't know if this helps but my uncle went to Keck and did his residency at La County in emergency medicine. When I was stressing about the debt from Keck (I am attending in the fall) he told me that they take his student loan payments out of his pay check every month and he doesn't even notice.

i dont know how that is possible considering if you take out the full amount at keck you'll be close to 280K in the hole. maybe he had some scholarships or help from family...280K is a decent house in some parts of the country (not california)

and yeah i am pretty sure the lectures are put on the internet at ucla. aside from the argument that the training at LAC is better than the ucla medical system (an argument i still am trying to understand) i just see no reason to go to keck over ucla.

i think the faculty member argument is silly. both schools are heavy research schools, so professors at both will be concerned with their own research. plus comparing your experience as an undergrad to that you will have as a med student is just ludicrous. think about how many students the professors you didnt like in undergrad had each year. id probably be pretty effing annoyed with all the psycho premeds scratching each others' eyes out to get an A too.

i say go to ucla. i am pretty sure you wont get a worse education, and i know that you will come out ahead financially.

 

[sunnymed]

I think I'll be true blue and go to UCLA. Now, is anyone looking for a roommate? (Right now I live in the valley but would like to live closer.)

 

[flaahless]

Trust me county ain't all that it is cracked up to be. I'm doing my intership at a county hospital and like I said earlier the volume and paper work is absurd. So absurd that I don't have much time to teach my 3rd year students much I just scut them out so I can get most of my paper work done. When I was on surgery and was responsible for 50 patients guess who helped me write the notes. The 3 med student on my team all got to wright 10+ notes each, and do you think anyone went over their notes to see if how well they were done, do you think anyone had the time.

And by your logic since UCLA has 2 county hospitals then the training there must be better.

Haha dawg, and how is that my logic?

Anyways, thanks for your story and good luck with your students.

 

[Long Dong]

Haha dawg, and how is that my logic?

I was just sayin that you was sayin keck is better training because of LA county hospital blah blah blah, so by your logic UCLA has 2 county hospitals(harbor and olive view) not just one then the training must be better there because of blah blah blah. I've never seen some one going to UCSF have such a hard on for keck.😀

 

[snoogiedroogsMD]

Yo G, congrats on your success. I was also accepted to both programs and I would have chosen Keck had I stayed in LA.

Drew is a great program, and UCLA is a great school, but I honestly believe that Keck offers one of the best medical educations in the country. Their board scores are astronomical and their clinical education is among the best. Sure UCLA has a higher ranked hospital, but I guarantee that you will learn more medicine and develop into a stronger clinician at Keck.

Now the price tag of a keck education is a bit disconcerting. If money is an issue to you, I'd choose Drew. If it isn't, I'd choose Keck.

How do you find out about a school's board scores?

 

[vicinihil]

Go with cost and quality of education. I feel like clinical exposure is more important during residency than during medical school. UCLA is a better program than Keck, is what I usually hear. Board score averages at a school doesn't equal how you're going to do. You can be exceptional anywhere.