USF vs. Creighton vs. Tulane

[SutterMcButter]

USF (Select Program):
Pros:
- Lots of research opportunities
- Appears to have a lot of student support
- Was really impressed after the interview and second look; students seemed pretty happy
- Administration seems determined to improve the school

Cons:
- Have to move to Allentown PA for clinical years
- Facilities are old
- Kind of unknown, despite technically a higher ranking (does that even matter?)
- Tampa is a little meh for me

Creighton:
Pros:
- Established school with a decent reputation
- Facilities weren't fantastic, but newer than USF's

Cons:
- Came away unimpressed after the interview, students seemed to tolerate the school rather than be happy with it
- Research is an afterthought
- Omaha is a little meh for me

Tulane (waitlisted):
Pros:
- Established school with a good reputation
- Good match lists
- I really like New Orleans
- True Pass/Fail

Cons:
- Old facilities
- Research isn't as easily as available

Conclusion: I'm leaning toward USF, but that's more of a gut feeling. My head is telling that if I get off the Tulane WL, I should go there. Essentially, I'm looking for whichever school will best set me up for matching into my specialty of choice, whatever that may be - and I think that school is Tulane but I'm not sure.

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[deev04]

Is COA a factor?

Otherwise, I think following you gut with USF over Creighton (or Tulane should you get off the waitlist) makes sense. USF has great research opportunities and has been churning out some nice looking Match lists. I think the difference in rankings between Creighton/USF is probably negligible and deciding based on opportunities, location, curriculum, feel, etc. (and COA if that's a factor) is probably your best bet.

Congrats on a successful cycle and best of luck!

 

[OhEmDee]

is tulane really a true pass fail? did they say that in the interview day or is it online somewhere? Just wanna verify since that's pretty important

 

[camtheram1815]

I can't speak to the other schools, but I just wanted to throw in there that I thought the Creighton students were among the happiest I've seen compared to other schools. Perhaps you just got them on a rough day or something. But to each their own, I suppose.

They also have a brand new hospital, the Phoenix campus (with Barrow Institute), and a lot of diverse clinical sites (San Fran, Phoenix, Omaha, NE, etc..) which were strong pros in my book.

Nice work on the acceptances, good luck!

 

[deev04]

I just wanted to throw in there that I thought the Creighton students were among the happiest I've seen compared to other schools. Perhaps you just got them on a rough day or something. But to each their own, I suppose.

I think student happiness is almost impossible to judge by premeds and almost always a useless indicator of your future happiness at the school. Most premeds have limited exposure to students and faculty for very limited periods of time during sessions where the schools is going out of its way to sell itself. However, schools do this to varying degrees (i.e. some schools pull out all the stops on interviews days, some schools just let life as normal go on), resulting in very different experiences. You also only get exposure to certain students. What happens if you meet all the happy students at one school and all the super stressed students at the other? Trust me that both exist at all schools. Likewise, what if your visit occurred during the most challenging exam block at one school and another school's week off?

Unless you can identify systemic reason why students are unhappy (i.e. competitive grading schemes or unresponsive administrative, lack of clinical sites, etc.) that EVERYONE seems to be harping about (and that you don't think would work very well for you), I don't think student happiness is very useful. Also, even if all your classmates are happy, if you are from CA and your SO is out there and you end up in rural IA at a school with a curriculum you are not fond of, you are probably also not going to be happy.

 

[camtheram1815]

I think student happiness is almost impossible to judge by premeds and almost always a useless indicator of your future happiness at the school. Most premeds have limited exposure to students and faculty for very limited periods of time during sessions where the schools is going out of its way to sell itself. However, schools do this to varying degrees (i.e. some schools pull out all the stops on interviews days, some schools just let life as normal go on), resulting in very different experiences. You also only get exposure to certain students. What happens if you meet all the happy students at one school and all the super stressed students at the other? Trust me that both exist at all schools. Likewise, what if your visit occurred during the most challenging exam block at one school and another school's week off?

Unless you can identify systemic reason why students are unhappy (i.e. competitive grading schemes or unresponsive administrative, lack of clinical sites, etc.) that EVERYONE seems to be harping about (and that you don't think would work very well for you), I don't think student happiness is very useful. Also, even if all your classmates are happy, if you are from CA and your SO is out there and you end up in rural IA at a school with a curriculum you are not fond of, you are probably also not going to be happy.

These are fair points. Certainly happiness is highly subjective and varies from person to person.

While I do think that the brief snapshot that applicants get on interview, I do think that it can be substantially helpful when determining whether or not they would be a good fit at a school. A personal example: I interviewed at one of my local state schools and essentially the whole interview day felt "off" to me. Students seemed unhappy, administration disorganized, etc.. As it would happen, I met current students through friends of friends, and these students told me that my thoughts were true about the school; many of them were unhappy and unnecessarily pressured. So in my case, the small sample size appeared to be a good indicator, and I'm glad that I won't be going to that school.

I only mentioned student happiness because I feel that OP got the wrong impression about Creighton. Obviously, one can never know how something will be until they experience it for themselves. Medical school is hard enough as it is. I'd argue any indicator is better than none, even if it's far from perfect.

 

[deev04]

I only mentioned student happiness because I feel that OP got the wrong impression about Creighton.

Agree with a lot of your post. Think the quote above is especially why sdn can be so valuable. Of course all of our opinions, including those of the students we meet at different schools, are anecdotal. But, they are someone's experience and there's a chance that might tell you something (as well as a chance it might mean nothing for you personally).

A personal example: I interviewed at one of my local state schools and essentially the whole interview day felt "off" to me. Students seemed unhappy, administration disorganized, etc.. As it would happen, I met current students through friends of friends, and these students told me that my thoughts were true about the school; many of them were unhappy and unnecessarily pressured.

This was actually what I was trying to say when I emphasized above that you shouldn't pay attention to happiness unless you have everyone (or many people) harping on issues of happiness and pointing to root causes like pressure and the administration. I think in that case you should absolutely pay attention.

If you got a bad feeling from a place or have a potential issue, reach out to current students (or sdn). Many schools will give out current students' emails so you can contact them and express concerns (e.g. everyone seemed unhappy? is the grading harsh/competitive?). If you hear the same feedback that you heard from your very small sample size during your interview/visit, then it's probably something to take into account. If not, than you can probably assume you just happened to come across the stressed out/unhappy students on your visit.

 

[camtheram1815]

Agree with a lot of your post. Think the quote above is especially why sdn can be so valuable. Of course all of our opinions, including those of the students we meet at different schools, are anecdotal. But, they are someone's experience and there's a chance that might tell you something (as well as a chance it might mean nothing for you personally).



This was actually what I was trying to say when I emphasized above that you shouldn't pay attention to happiness unless you have everyone (or many people) harping on issues of happiness and pointing to root causes like pressure and the administration. I think in that case you should absolutely pay attention.

If you got a bad feeling from a place or have a potential issue, reach out to current students (or sdn). Many schools will give out current students' emails so you can contact them and express concerns (e.g. everyone seemed unhappy? is the grading harsh/competitive?). If you hear the same feedback that you heard from your very small sample size during your interview/visit, then it's probably something to take into account. If not, than you can probably assume you just happened to come across the stressed out/unhappy students on your visit.

Yep, I would agree with everything you just said.

I personally think COA should be the one of the most important factors in school choice for applicants, but that is another argument entirely, ha.

Cheers!

 

[deev04]

I personally think COA should be the one of the most important factors in school choice for applicants

Yes!! Nothing seems to equate with unhappiness quite like 200-500k+interest in debt.

 

[SutterMcButter]

Is COA a factor?

Otherwise, I think following you gut with USF over Creighton (or Tulane should you get off the waitlist) makes sense. USF has great research opportunities and has been churning out some nice looking Match lists. I think the difference in rankings between Creighton/USF is probably negligible and deciding based on opportunities, location, curriculum, feel, etc. (and COA if that's a factor) is probably your best bet.

Congrats on a successful cycle and best of luck!

Thanks! And yeah, I am taking COA into my considerations, but the differences between each school are nearly negligible - maybe a few thousand dollars.

is tulane really a true pass fail? did they say that in the interview day or is it online somewhere? Just wanna verify since that's pretty important

Yup, preclinical is true pass/fail. Creighton is HP/P/F, and USF is essentially regular grades with H/PC/P/F.

I only mentioned student happiness because I feel that OP got the wrong impression about Creighton. Obviously, one can never know how something will be until they experience it for themselves. Medical school is hard enough as it is. I'd argue any indicator is better than none, even if it's far from perfect.

Yeah, I wasn't putting too much weight on my perception of their happiness, but it was just something to note I suppose. And I don't mean to say the students at Creighton seemed unhappy, just less happy specifically towards the school. For example, when I would ask what they liked about attending their school, USF students had an abundance of answers that seemed honest (or at least they were good actors), whereas the Creighton students seemed to struggle to come up with any answer that couldn't be said at any other school (e.g. "most of my classmates are really cool"). Either way, you're definitely right that I may have just talked to the wrong people.

 

[ScottTenorman54]

If you were USF CORE, I'd say go USF. But to me, dropping everything midway and moving away to Allentown isn't really ideal. What if you're involved in some cool research you want to continue? What if you've developed a good group of friends that act as a support network? What if you've networked really well with physicians at Tampa General? What if you're in a relationship? And you'll be leaving just as the new facilities in downtown Tampa open up. Plus, SELECT tuition is much higher. I don't think rankings or reputation matter between these three, none of them are 'high' tier. With Tulane's true P/F, I'd go Tulane in your shoes, you'll have a blast. Just make sure they're waterproof shoes.

 

[IMakedThese]

If you were USF CORE, I'd say go USF. But to me, dropping everything midway and moving away to Allentown isn't really ideal. What if you're involved in some cool research you want to continue? What if you've developed a good group of friends that act as a support network? What if you've networked really well with physicians at Tampa General? What if you're in a relationship? And you'll be leaving just as the new facilities in downtown Tampa open up. Plus, SELECT tuition is much higher. I don't think rankings or reputation matter between these three, none of them are 'high' tier. With Tulane's true P/F, I'd go Tulane in your shoes, you'll have a blast. Just make sure they're waterproof shoes.

These are all good points. But I wouldn't hold my breath on that new med building opening in summer 2019... and even so, as an MS3 you will have extremely limited contact/use of that building.

 

[ScottTenorman54]

But I wouldn't hold my breath on that new med building opening in summer 2019... and even so, as an MS3 you will have extremely limited contact/use of that building.

I've noticed that same skepticism about the build date from a few others. Is the administration particularly known for delays beyond the usual large bureaucracy fumbles or something?

 

[IMakedThese]

I've noticed that same skepticism about the build date from a few others. Is the administration particularly known for delays beyond the usual large bureaucracy fumbles or something?

The admin is good (espcislly dean and director of admin) but most of the administration has only been working there 1-2yrs as a portion quit or were fired. And like everything happening in dt tampa delays are becoming inevitable, but once everything's done, 2022 and beyond it'll be amazing. The admin themselves "hope" it'll be built by 2019, but it's a long shot, they don't even talk about it much during interviews because they know c/o 2021 may not even see it.

 

[ScottTenorman54]

The admin is good (espcislly dean and director of admin) but most of the administration has only been working there 1-2yrs as a portion quit or were fired. And like everything happening in dt tampa delays are becoming inevitable, but once everything's done, 2022 and beyond it'll be amazing. The admin themselves "hope" it'll be built by 2019, but it's a long shot, they don't even talk about it much during interviews because they know c/o 2021 may not even see it.

I suppose it's a good thing they haven't given up on WELL renovations, then.

 

[chirugien97]

In my very limited opinion I'd say Tulane. I was accepted to USF and I think the faculty and administration are amazing. BUT you're select. That tuition is insane and moving to Allentown halfway through as someone else mentioned seems somewhat detrimental. Personally I wouldn't let facilities play that big of a role but that depends on the person themselves. And I think being in a city as dope as New Orleans could make up for it. That being said fit = where you thrive. So if you're gut is telling you USF you may wanna listen. That's how I ended up deciding elsewhere.