Using Connections to get in ?

[sigepwelker]

I was wonderng the thoughts of other SDNers on using personal or family connections to get into medical school. Assuming that that you are a qualified applicant and not taking a spot from another person.

How many people would use their connections to help them get in ? How many people that have gotten into school this year do you think have done just that ?

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[rpkall]

People do that all the time. For undergrad, grad, and med schools. And it's not always benign, either. Sometimes people with vastly inferior qualifications get into institutions they shouldn't.

I personally didn't, though I didn't have any connections to "use" so to speak. Would I have? Maybe. That's why people do it. I'd like to say I wouldn't, but the truth is that everyone says that. You don't know who you really are until you are challenged to make difficult choices. Most use every advantage they can in this world, regardless of the moral implications.

That being said, if you get into school that way, you need to live with the notion that you didn't do it on your own--that *maybe* you wouldn't have been good enough if Chief Surgeon Daddy or Mommy hadn't put pressure on the admissions office. People with character and integrity find it very difficult to be at peace with themselves under those circumstances.

I'm happy that I'm going to a state school for people who are of similar intellect and abilities. I got in on my own, and the school fits me. If I had used connections to get into a place like Harvard or Yale, I don't know if I would be happy with myself. If I had used connections to get off a wait-list, however, that might be a different story. At least then you know you're qualified enough to hold your own.

Point is: happens all the time. That's how people get ahead in this world. It's life.

 

[Elmer]

I was wonderng the thoughts of other SDNers on using personal or family connections to get into medical school. Assuming that that you are a qualified applicant and not taking a spot from another person.

How many people would use their connections to help them get in ? How many people that have gotten into school this year do you think have done just that ?

Use any means available to get where you want to be and assume that everyone else is doing the same. Because they are.

 

[velo]

I was wonderng the thoughts of other SDNers on using personal or family connections to get into medical school. Assuming that that you are a qualified applicant and not taking a spot from another person.

well there's the question, if you're a "qualified applicant and not taking a spot from another person" why do you need to use connections to get in?

 

[sigepwelker]

well there's the question, if you're a "qualified applicant and not taking a spot from another person" why do you need to use connections to get in?

I am sure that many people on this board that would consider themselves as "qualified" who have been rejected or are sitting on a wiatlist right now. The question is whether or not they would use them to get into school.
The numbers game is not that easy to beat for everyone

 

[velo]

I am sure that many people on this board that would consider themselves as "qualified" who have been rejected or are sitting on a wiatlist right now. The question is whether or not they would use them to get into school.
The numbers game is not that easy to beat for everyone

exactly, they would consider themselves qualified...does that mean they are? That's for the admissions committee to decide. Saying you would use a connection because you have assessed yourself as qualified is just a way to rationalize using a resource that puts you at an advantage independant of your merits. I don't think I would want to...any time you struggled at all in school you would stop and think to yourself 'am I not grasping this because I don't deserve to be here?'

 

[ltrain]

exactly, they would consider themselves qualified...does that mean they are? That's for the admissions committee to decide. Saying you would use a connection because you have assessed yourself as qualified is just a way to rationalize using a resource that puts you at an advantage independant of your merits. I don't think I would want to...any time you struggled at all in school you would stop and think to yourself 'am I not grasping this because I don't deserve to be here?'

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Polk_Rich_Applicants.htm

this is my favorite quote: "Did my normal child take the place of somebody who could really make a difference in the world? Sure, yes, to an extent. But there are so many things you can lose sleep over. I'm happy for me and my child."

 

[MorningGlory]

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Polk_Rich_Applicants.htm

this is my favorite quote: "Did my normal child take the place of somebody who could really make a difference in the world? Sure, yes, to an extent. But there are so many things you can lose sleep over. I'm happy for me and my child."

I don't think mentioning relatives who are doctors, etc. should necessarily be seen as a way to "take a spot from someone else." Sure, this may happen in some cases.. but it can also be used as a tool to try and distinguish between two candidates who are very similar.

 

[patzan]

I have a state legislator friend who said he knew some people at the state med school who "owed him some favors" and wanted to know if he could pull some strings for me. I told him I'd rather he didn't...and I didn't get in. No regrets.

 

[ltrain]

I don't think mentioning relatives who are doctors, etc. should necessarily be seen as a way to "take a spot from someone else." Sure, this may happen in some cases.. but it can also be used as a tool to try and distinguish between two candidates who are very similar.

if you take a look at the article, the quote was in reference to a subpar applicant being accepted to duke due to a large parental donation. it was on undergrad admissions, but i still found it interesting (ridiculous?)...

 

[velo]

I don't think mentioning relatives who are doctors, etc. should necessarily be seen as a way to "take a spot from someone else." Sure, this may happen in some cases.. but it can also be used as a tool to try and distinguish between two candidates who are very similar.

we're not talking about mentioning relatives who are doctors...we're talking about having "friends" on the admissions committee through parental or other connections

 

[KingTutATL]

we're not talking about mentioning relatives who are doctors...we're talking about having "friends" on the admissions committee through parental or other connections

There aren't many people that are going to have those kind of ties to medical schools. Just gonna have to face the facts that some people who scored less on the MCAT, had a lower gpa, and look less promising will get in ahead of you because they know somebody. Happens all the time.

Off the topic: When I applied to UGA out of highschool I didn't get in. But I knew a kid that was arrested for drug trafficking and he got in and a girl that had a 2.3 gpa and a 900 on the SAT got in because their parents knew somebody. It gets out of hand sometimes but I could only see it happening to very few people for med school admissions.

 

[MorningGlory]

we're not talking about mentioning relatives who are doctors...we're talking about having "friends" on the admissions committee through parental or other connections

Oops.. nevermind, misinterpreted the conversation.

 

[humuhumu]

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Polk_Rich_Applicants.htm

this is my favorite quote: "Did my normal child take the place of somebody who could really make a difference in the world? Sure, yes, to an extent. But there are so many things you can lose sleep over. I'm happy for me and my child."

I'm no idealist, but man, reading stuff like this still bugs me...

 

[bostonmed24]

I agree with the idea to use all measures of getting into medical school that are available to you because you can be sure others are doing the same thing.

I would have to say though that it takes more than having some family in the field to get into medical school. It's much different than undergrad admissions.

To those who don't take advantage of this situation, I do admire you to a point; however, if all that was standing in my way of medical school was a friend pulling a few strings I think I would have to take advantage of that opportunity.

"It's not what you know..."

 

[patzan]

If I remember, the last time we had this debate, it turned into an affirmative action quagmire very quickly.

My conclusions: it's ethically wrong to use anything but your own credentials to get in.

 

[BaylorGuy]

its ethically wrong, but it doesnt mean that everyone does it. Lots of things are ethically wrong but continue to happen. Using connections is to your advantage. Some people want to make it without any connections (either they do not have any or they refuse the help of others) and that is their prerogative. However, like an above poster stated, people do it constantly to get into every and anything.

 

[Kitra101]

If I remember, the last time we had this debate, it turned into an affirmative action quagmire very quickly.

My conclusions: it's ethically wrong to use anything but your own credentials to get in.

I dont mean to sound ridiculous, but this is what I have learned - this medical school this is the real world. In the real world, there is competition and people are using whatever means they can to get a leg up. It sucks to be waitlisted or rejected at a school in place of someone who you think is less qualified, but qualified, the best or whatever description that we all want to attach to ourselves is subjective to us and to the adcomms. I went to UGA and I will tell you this - I dont standardize test well. I would not get in today with my SAT score, but I graduated with high honors - the UGA admissions committee would say that the SAT will predict your likelihood to succeed at UGA. It is all BS, but these are real life situtations that cannot be neatly evaluated and quanitified. Each candidate has different variables working for them and a hig GPA plus MCAT is a trend to get into med school, but I have seen some with those on MDapps that were rejected. It sucks. For the UGA example, I know of someone with a ridiculously inflated GPA in high school since they never took honor course and had a terrible SAT....but they got into UGA because it looked like they did well and may have had connections. Subjective as can be.

 

[ShyRem]

Ethically wrong, but used all the time. In almost all aspects of life. Get used to it - more and more no matter where you are, it's not about how good you are, or what you've done, or what you know -- it's all about WHO you know. Sad, but true.

 

[rockit]

I have no problem with anyone getting in off a waitlist using connections, or getting an interview using connections. Being waitlisted means that you are qualified, but you had a little bad luck. Personally, I'd be less happy going to a school where I knew that a connection had gotten me a straight-out acceptance. I could never be sure if I was actually where I should be.

 

[sigepwelker]

My conclusions: it's ethically wrong to use anything but your own credentials to get in.

People use connections everywhere to get into medical school. Where did you get your credentials? I bet that many of them came through other people. The only stats that don't have anything to do with connections is GPA and MCAT. (Even MCAT can be biased, i.e. affordi ng the cost of a prep class)
In my experience I have been told that clinical research (i.e. not in a lab, but with patients) is looked very highly upon. This door is not open to everyone, so person X that knew somebody to get a position doing this type of research has a leg up on me. Somebody earlier said that thinking of yourself as qualified enough isn't the same as being being good enough..medical schools have to numerically accept certain people with higher numbers; it's a fact of life.
Does that make the person with a lower MCAT less qualified to be a doctor ?
People with riduluosly high numbers tend to have a very skewed idea of what it takes to be a doctor. By low Im not talking 25s here.

Anyways...Im glad I finally started a thread that people respond to

 

[velo]

this thread is getting WAY off-track. No one is arguing that it is not widespread for people to do anything they can to get a leg up or that its a problem we need to fight to fix/something to be blamed if you don't get in/whatever. The question is simple: is it ethical? Not does everybody do it?

I say not ethical and I'd love to hear any argument to the contrary, all I've heard so far are rationalizations.

 

[deuist]

I was wonderng the thoughts of other SDNers on using personal or family connections to get into medical school. Assuming that that you are a qualified applicant and not taking a spot from another person.

How many people would use their connections to help them get in ? How many people that have gotten into school this year do you think have done just that ?

I tried using connections to get in. I had a dean of the college of liberal arts and sciences call the dean of the college of medicine. I also had the head of academic advising call her friend, the head of medical school admissions. I did not receive an interview.

 

[humuhumu]

this thread is getting WAY off-track. No one is arguing that it is not widespread for people to do anything they can to get a leg up or that its a problem we need to fight to fix/something to be blamed if you don't get in/whatever. The question is simple: is it ethical? Not does everybody do it?

I say not ethical and I'd love to hear any argument to the contrary, all I've heard so far are rationalizations.

Tough question. In some cases it's clearly not ethical, e.g. a candidate who is accepted due to connections in spite of being inferior to the average candidate by every measure.

In other cases it's hard to say. For example, assume there is one slot left and that 10 candidates who are identical in every meaningful way could fill it. How should the ad comm make a decision? Draw straws? Pick the one who is most physically attractive? Pick the one with connections? Any of those methods seems equally arbitrary....

 

[beefballs]

Use any means available to get where you want to be and assume that everyone else is doing the same. Because they are.

agreed, with in reason of course

 

[beefballs]

Not ethical huh, is it unethical to get a job somewhere because you know a person who works there. It seems to me that ethics is in the eye of the beholder, we are not talking about someone with a 2.5 and a 21 MCAT, we are talking about two similar applicants competing for the opportunity. I would take the opportunity and run over having to reapply the next year.

 

[fullefect1]

I have a state legislator friend who said he knew some people at the state med school who "owed him some favors" and wanted to know if he could pull some strings for me. I told him I'd rather he didn't...and I didn't get in. No regrets.

Wow... I defenietly would have told him to do it. But I guess I am just a bad person... well maybe not.