USUHS service: Army/Navy/Air Force?

[whitey]

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Howdy all,
I have an interview at USUHS a week from thursday and I was wondering which service I should choose. My criteria are the type of doctor each service needs, location of deployment and availability of spots. Right now I am leaning towards the Army. My rational is that the Army is probably more likely to need surgeons (the field I want to enter) than the other branch and has more spots to fill. I don't know how relevant that later point is though since I am interviewing early in the cycle. As I understand, the Air Force spots fill the most quickly but I do not know how that would effect my chances there. Air Force has a reputation as being the most relaxed (an army speak from USUHS described the AF as being like one large officers club, in jest of course) however it seems they have a smaller selection when it comes to residencies. Navy seems very nice, especially since it has the bases with the best locations. However I don't know that I would take to life on a boat. As I said I am leaning towards big green but I could be persuaded to change my position. (Not a flip-flop just an informed decision 🙂 Let me know if you have any pros or cons I should consider.
- Alex White

 

[MoosePilot]

In today's environment, strongly consider deployment schedule. Consider number of days deployed by docs in each service per year and in what kind of blocks. Consider location and living conditions while there. You'll be deployed, you just want to consider when, where, and how long.

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

In other words, off you go into the wild blue yonder.

;-)

 

[Mirror Form]

Howdy all,
I have an interview at USUHS a week from thursday and I was wondering which service I should choose. My criteria are the type of doctor each service needs, location of deployment and availability of spots. Right now I am leaning towards the Army. My rational is that the Army is probably more likely to need surgeons (the field I want to enter) than the other branch and has more spots to fill. I don't know how relevant that later point is though since I am interviewing early in the cycle. As I understand, the Air Force spots fill the most quickly but I do not know how that would effect my chances there. Air Force has a reputation as being the most relaxed (an army speak from USUHS described the AF as being like one large officers club, in jest of course) however it seems they have a smaller selection when it comes to residencies. Navy seems very nice, especially since it has the bases with the best locations. However I don't know that I would take to life on a boat. As I said I am leaning towards big green but I could be persuaded to change my position. (Not a flip-flop just an informed decision 🙂 Let me know if you have any pros or cons I should consider.
- Alex White

You seem to be very well informed. From what I've seen (4th year med student currently applying to military residencies), your analysis is dead on. It appears to be much easier to match into your desired field in the army's GME then in the air force or navy. Many of my friends in the air force that are applying to typically non-uber competitive fields (eg anesthesia, EM) say they feel like they're applying to derm (2x the number of applicants as spots). In the navy, there's not even a chance of matching into a competitive field w/o doing a GMO. If you want to do surgery, a GMO would effectively EXTEND your payback time. So that's something to think about given that it's the same scholarship.

 

[Celiac Plexus]

I interviewed at USUHS in the 1998-9 cycle.

If you pick army, you will have the greatest chance of admission, followed by navy, then air force.

When you interview, you will have to pick a branch to go into. The army has the most spots, follwed by navy, then air force. The air force spots fill first, then navy, and then army.

Choose carefully... For example if you pick air force, but the air force slots are filled then you will be placed on the waitlist even if there is an open army slot. They will keep you on the navy list until the very end of the cycle (the beginning of summer before the year starts). If they exhaust the army wait list, they will call you and ask if you would take a navy or army slot if it opens. If you say yes, then you might get a slot in one of these other branches.

 

[DeepCowboy]

Choose carefully... For example if you pick air force, but the air force slots are filled then you will be placed on the waitlist even if there is an open army slot.

Wrong-o, mongo. Thanks for trying to help, but here is the real gouge (Navy jargon for accurate info):
From the USUHS bulletin, page 54:
http://www.usuhs.mil/adm/catalog/AdmApp0406.pdf
"Service Assignments:
Acceptance letters specify the branch of service (U.S. Army, U.S. Navy, or
U.S. Air Force) in which the selectee has been nominated to serve. The
particular service assignment is dependent on the preference indicated on an applicant?s
service preference statement, a form that is completed on interview day, and on the
projected needs of each service component.

An individual can accept appointment in the branch stipulated or decline the offer
to matriculate. The school does not guarantee that service nominations are compatible
with applicant preferences but it makes every effort to accommodate individual choices.
Applicants on active duty are tendered a position in the same service unless they
requested transfer to another branch of service. Such a request should have been
included in the ?Letter of Approval to Apply.? Service academy and ROTC students are
commissioned in the service in which they have been commissioned.

Service preference statements have no bearing on admissions decisions. Applicants
compete for places in the class rather than for specific service assignments. The decision
to nominate an individual for a given service component is purely administrative and is
not a selection factor for the medical school. The School?s determination of service
nominations is based on the total preferences expressed for each service by all conditional
applicants, individual backgrounds and desires, and service quotas established by
the U.S. Secretary of Defense.

 

[MoosePilot]

Wrong-o, mongo. Thanks for trying to help, but here is the real gouge (Navy jargon for accurate info):
From the USUHS bulletin, page 54:
http://www.usuhs.mil/adm/catalog/AdmApp0406.pdf
"Service Assignments:
snipped.

DeepCowboy, your quote is right from their website, but they only have so many slots from each service. I agree with what was said earlier and what you're arguing against. If there's only 30 something Air Force slots, the 40th guy isn't going to get in as an AF 2Lt. He can't. They may give him a call and tell him there's an Army position available if he's interested.

"An individual can accept appointment in the branch stipulated or decline the offer to matriculate.".

I think they're saying what you put down isn't going to affect your acceptance, but your acceptance may entail getting a service other than your preference. YMMV.

 

[DeepCowboy]

I was arguing against this:

Choose carefully... For example if you pick air force, but the air force slots are filled then you will be placed on the waitlist even if there is an open army slot.

by emphasizing this:

Service preference statements have no bearing on admissions decisions.

Yeah, I think the last paragraph of what you said is correct. Basically, your service preference is just that, a preference. You may not get it even if you get in to the school.

I will be really pissed if I get out of the Navy and then get offered a Navy slot.

 

[MoosePilot]

I see what you were saying now, DeepCowboy. Yeah, I don't think you automatically go into the waiting list. My impression is that's not how USUHS works. If they want an applicant they're going to work a bit to get him, so a phone call letting the applicant know that the Air Force is full but the Army is not would be the sort of thing they'd do.

Good luck avoiding the fleet 😀 (No offense to you sailors).

 

[GeoLeoX]

Lots of talk about how to get into USUHS, but not much talk about life after USUHS.

I'm a resident in the Army, I'm biased, and it's for a reason. I am also at a NCC program (combined with Navy), so I see a lot of what passes for acceptable treatment of their personnel.

A lot of where you go depends on the branch of service and your career goals. Very likely, though not guaranteed, the Navy will deploy you after your intern year if you are interested in a competitive residency. The Army and Air Force could do the same but it is much (much) less likely.

One of the reasons that I chose Army was because it has the largest patient population and the widest array of residency programs (both in size and scope). The Air Force is the smallest - keep that in mind because as a USUHS grad you will not likely be deferred for a civilian residency. While the Army doesn't have the world's greatest residency programs, their committment to GME is much more stable than the Navy. There have been a number of Navy cuts recently and GME programs are in the sights. (Please don't give me the published party line that the Navy is committed to GME - they simply are not).

In the end it's a complex choice - I looked into HPSP for each branch and chose Army. I certainly don't regret not choosing Navy or Air Force (esp. Navy).

Hope that helps,

G

 

[denali]

First off, GeoLeoX is dead-on RE: how to pick a branch of service. Figure out who has the spiffiest uniform and best golf courses, but dose it with some reality regarding how medicine is viewed and practiced in each branch of service; the implied task is that you do some real research on what each branch has to offer, and I would suggest something more in-depth than the brochures and spiel the HPSP recruiter has to offer. Word of mouth is one thing, but the best is shadowing and talking to a military doc in the branch of service you're considering. Ask them questions about GME, practice opportunities, educational opportunities, and the current/future trends. (Note: current AD, academy & ROTC-you're stuck in your current branch)

Specifically regarding the mechanics of branch selection, on interview day they don't ask you to pick one branch; rather you are asked to rank order your preferences and indicate your level of interest (scale of 1-5 I think). My sense is that this allows them to decide whether to offer you a position, then offer you the branch that best matches your preferences and the slots still available when your packet comes up for consideration. Want to maximize your chances of a certain branch? Apply early.

IMHO, branch of service doesn't really matter while at USUHS (unless you want to be a smarta$$ AF guy in the bleachers eating donuts while the Army and Navy do their PT tests), but it does make a difference in GME and future career opportunities.

My $0.02,

 

[DrYo12]

I'm interviewing at USUHS this Thursday and have to make the choice as well. Any thoughts in a woman picking a branch?

 

[Soccer Doc]

Before you dis the Navy too much, remember that the army has fully trained subspecialists serving as general medical officers in Afghanistan and Iraq. So "no GMO tour" means different things to you when you are at the NCC program sitting pretty in a residency compared to my colleagues sitting on a box in Afghanistan not seeing a single cancer patient. For 12-18 months. And, in fact, the AF is taking over the CSH in Baghdad. Come on, guys, we are all in this together. State the benefits of your service, but not at the expense of the others. Your education is NO different at USUHS regardless of service. The Army is bigger, has more options, but this also means more billets of all kinds to fill. The AF is smaller, fewer options, fewer deployments, but most recently, the medical department has come onto the radarscope, so may be aligning more with the line - like now having to do a real PT test outdoors. The Navy is the most versatile, does have GMO tours after internship, has many deployed GMOs with the Marines. And does have the spiffiest uniforms (and the most expensive). But there is running water on a ship.

 

[GeoLeoX]

Before you dis the Navy too much, remember that the army has fully trained subspecialists serving as general medical officers in Afghanistan and Iraq. So "no GMO tour" means different things to you when you are at the NCC program sitting pretty in a residency compared to my colleagues sitting on a box in Afghanistan not seeing a single cancer patient. For 12-18 months. And, in fact, the AF is taking over the CSH in Baghdad. Come on, guys, we are all in this together. State the benefits of your service, but not at the expense of the others. Your education is NO different at USUHS regardless of service. The Army is bigger, has more options, but this also means more billets of all kinds to fill. The AF is smaller, fewer options, fewer deployments, but most recently, the medical department has come onto the radarscope, so may be aligning more with the line - like now having to do a real PT test outdoors. The Navy is the most versatile, does have GMO tours after internship, has many deployed GMOs with the Marines. And does have the spiffiest uniforms (and the most expensive). But there is running water on a ship.

Quite so, we all obviously have our biases. Nolo contedere on the stuff you mention. HOWEVER, I was addressing Graduate Medical Education - not your post-residency life. You do bring up some valid issues. I was merely commenting on the EXTREMELY sorry state of Navy GME as I have seen it in the National Capital area. I meant no offense nor harbor no divisive intent.

xxoooxo,

G

 

[cpudela]

Hi,

I noticed the last post in this forum was about 6 years ago. I have an interview at USUHS in a month and I was hoping that someone has some additional clues on how to go about deciding between the branches. I'm guessing some things have changed in 6 years.

By the way, I'm thinking of IM, but that's obviously subject to change when I actually attend med school.

Thanks!

 

[grotto]

Navy is by far the most competitive service to get into now.

Everything else is pretty much the same except that you will go straight through residency in the Navy except for Derm, maybe EM, and some very competitive surgical subspecialties.

Good luck, people really like it here - its a great program. Make sure you understand the new curriculum though - it is going to be completely different (1.5 yrs basic science, research, then clinical years).

 

[blee]

Everything else is pretty much the same except that you will go straight through residency in the Navy except for Derm, maybe EM, and some very competitive surgical subspecialties.

Um...if you think general surgery is "very competitive," maybe. I can tell you that there is an extremely small chance that any of the PGY-1 categorical gen surg interns will go straight through this year.

GMO tours still exist in the Navy, and due to the low recruiting numbers from recent graduating classes, many specialties are going to be tough to go straight through. There are certainly fewer GMO spots than there once were, but don't be under any illusions about how (un)likely you are to get one of them.

Mind you, I'm still happy with my choice and the prospects before me. I just want to correct this bit of bad info.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Navy is by far the most competitive service to get into now.

Everything else is pretty much the same except that you will go straight through residency in the Navy except for Derm, maybe EM, and some very competitive surgical subspecialties.

Good luck, people really like it here - its a great program. Make sure you understand the new curriculum though - it is going to be completely different (1.5 yrs basic science, research, then clinical years).

This really is inaccurate.

As of 2010, I would not assume that you'll go straight-through in any specialty in the Navy. Odds are best in FP, IM, OB and maybe Peds. Odds approach zero in Radiology, surgical subs, anesthesiology, Derm, and ophtho. GS is in the middle.

I still would have chosen the Navy. Who wants to live in San Antonio, anyway?

 

[DrBloodmoney]

This really is inaccurate.

As of 2010, I would not assume that you'll go straight-through in any specialty in the Navy. Odds are best in FP, IM, OB and maybe Peds. Odds approach zero in Radiology, surgical subs, anesthesiology, Derm, and ophtho. GS is in the middle.

I still would have chosen the Navy. Who wants to live in San Antonio, anyway?

While we've had several who won the lottery and gotten to go straight through in Path in the past few years, this year we have 0%. If you would like to train in the specialty that you want without being (somewhat) manipulated into serving extra time choose the Army.

 

[InFactotum]

While we've had several who won the lottery and gotten to go straight through in Path in the past few years, this year we have 0%. If you would like to train in the specialty that you want without being (somewhat) manipulated into serving extra time choose the Army.

I'm interviewing in 3 weeks and am also trying to rank the services. Can someone explain what "straight through" means? I'm interested in surgical specialties, anesthesia and EM. Are you saying these are tougher to get into as a usuhs grad vs. another allopathic school? How about compared to an osteopathic grad?