USUHS vs. HPSP

[CrazyCozak]

Hello,
After reading many previous threads about certain programs, I do see remarks from some SDN members such as: "this doesn't apply to USUHS grads" or "that doesn't apply to HPSP recepients"... Can someone please explain in general terms, what are some perks in military of being an USUHS graduate opposed to a HPSP recepient.. whether that contributes to a better competitiveness for residency/slots/promotions/assignments and etc. Are there any setbacks? (other than obligation service duration). Basically, any "off-record" perks that have been observed, if there are any.
If two were offered, is it worth going through USUHS and serve more years, rather than going through HPSP and do less years of obligated service?
Thanks,

Crazy Cozak

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[bobbyseal]

I was offered an acceptance at USUHS, and I received HPSP.

I chose to go HPSP. I wanted to remain a civilian student and not have to worry about being mil regs while exam time was rolling around. While a 1st and 2nd year I was on about a weekly shaving schedule, that doesn't go so well for those on active duty.

Also, I wanted to have the freedom to opt out of the military as soon as possible. If I decided I wanted to stay on I would be able to chose that option. I like having as much freedom of choice as possible.

 

[Fiend]

the difference in service committment between the two is reason enough. THe previous poster's point about being a civilian while in med school is also an excellent reason.
USUHS grads HAVE to do a military internship, no matter what. Let's say you are a USUHS grad and you want to do a competitive specialty - you may not get the specialty you want in the military and will have to do a military prelim year in surg, medicine, or transitional - even if the military is offering civilian deferments for that field. If you were HPSP and competitive to match in that same specialty in the civilian match, there is a good chance that you will be allowed to do it provided the military residency program can fill with other qualitified applicants. Now, the USUHS rule applies to internship only. I know lots of USUHS grads who were able to reapply to the GME board as an intern or GMO and get a civilian sponsored or deferred spot.
DOes that help?

 

[kedhegard]

Plus you can't skip class at USUHS, which may not sound like much now, but come test time, you will be pretty happy about not having to show up for those 8 am lectures. Going to every class is ridiculous anyhow, because most professors either go way to slow or way to fast. Learning at your own pace is not an option if you have to be there every time the doors are open.

 

[Heeed!]

I have a bro at USUHS. He told me classes are optional. Go figure! Optional classes at the military med school and mandatory classes from 8-5 everyday in South Florida! WTFO!!!

 

[kedhegard]

Really? Everybody I met at OBC last year (before they started school) was saying that you have to go to class. Guess they didn't know what they were talking about.

Oh well, I still wouldn't go b/c of the uniform requirement, the long commitment, and the location.

 

[rotatores]

Oh well, I still wouldn't go b/c of the uniform requirement, the long commitment, and the location

What's wrong with the location?

BTW...classes are NOT required. I think I averaged about 1 lecture per month during the first two years.

 

[Spang]

FWIW I was accepted to USUHS with 13 years of active duty (aviation) and decided to go on a state scholarship to a civilian school. After about 6 months I realized I had made an error in judgement and took a 3 year HPSP. In retrospect I probably would have been just as happy (the make or break issue bc money wasn't an issue, too much, either way) at USUHS, but now I'm glad my committment is only 3 years instead of 7, but then I'll likely stick it out until retirement anyway.

I think the option of a civilian internship is moot unless you've got your heart set on making a lot less money for another year just so you don't have to shave.

As Fiend said, you can do a GMO and then do FTOS as a USUHS grad as easy as a HPSP grad, so that's no different.

There's a common misconception, I think, regarding USUHS grads vs. HPSP when it comes to "committment to serve" or quality of officer, similar to the Academy vs. ROTC or AOCS. I'm here to tell you nobody cares 4 years later that you went to the Academy (or USUHS, I'm betting) except other Academy grads. Trust me on this one, the route you take does NOT correlate to the quality of officer you will become. I can site several examples if anyone cares to argue about it over a couple of beers and a game of ship-captain-crew.

Not sure that answered the question at all, but I feel better about it!

Now, back to Qbank.

Antboy

 

[Navy Dive Doc]

I'll agree with what Ant Boy (aka Spang) said about the school you choose. As hard as it is to believe for all of you still in the hype of training and residency application, NO ONE cares where you went to med school after your internship is over (actually, the first day it begins). The playing field is level, and you're judged on performance. I've met great docs from "poor" schools, and dirtbags from the Ivy league. I also agree with the military committment aspect that he touched on. The USUHS folks know they owe seven years and will do a military residency, so they don't make as much noise as HPSPers early on, but in the end they look to get out like the rest of us that stay for residency.

One thing in USUHS' favor if you want to be career military, you come in as a regular, not reserve officer. This doesn't matter at all early in your career, but it might later as the draw down in size takes effect in the medical corps (PBD 712, search for the post if you're not familiar). A USUHS grad that puts on O-5 can stay until retirement, while someone who is USNR (still reserve status, technically) can be shown the door essentially without warning or reimbursement, etc.

Antboy, if you're in town I'll take you up on the beers.

 

[Spang]

Unfortunately I'm prepping for Step 1, otherwise I'd meet you at the Duck or Hot Tuna, your choice! Do people still go to Ft. Story on Sunday nights?

BTW I agree with the regular vs. reserve thing but I augmented as an aviator on my first try. They told us we had to do that or face a RIF. The good thing is if you do get RIF'd as USN the separation pay is usually pretty good.

Spang

 

[Heeed!]

Heck, I'll let the AF put me through residency and the RIF me. I can hear that cash register opening.....ca-ching!!

 

[bobbyseal]

I think the option of a civilian internship is moot unless you've got your heart set on making a lot less money for another year just so you don't have to shave.

Spang:

I don't think the idea of a military internship vs. civie internship is moot. There are not many specialties available for one to do a prelim year and then immediately advance to a PGY-2 year. The only ones that come to mind are frankly ultra competitive fields...rads, derm, ophtho, and neurosurg, otherwise ER and gas are still possibilities, but not as competitive. Since so many programs incorporate PGY-1 within residency, it'll be tough to get a good quality PGY-2 spot after a military internship if you want to do something like IM, Fam Med, or Surg/surg subspec's.

So, if you want to get out of the military asap and you are interested in doing a residency that's > 2 years, I'd have to say go HPSP. You've got a better shot of getting a civie deferment, finishing residency, and only owing 4 years. That's what I'm hoping to do at least!!!

 

[Spang]

Maybe I wasn't clear in my thought or I misunderstand what you're saying. You're going to do an internship year and then, most likely, do 2 years of GMO before doing PGY2+, whether it's military or civilian. If you go to a civilian program you're going to end up either repeating PGY1 or doing some kind of remedial stuff, depending on the specialty. An example is a Navy GMO who is a PGY1 in my school's urology program and he's doing first year over. So why not do PGY1 in the military and make the dough? For me the difference is huge (O-3/O-4 over 14!) but it's still a big difference for the newbies too.

I could be wrong, as it happen about 20 times for every 50 Qbank questions!

Spang

 

[bobbyseal]

You crack me up dude. Don't worry about Kaplan making you its bitch. It happened to the best of us.

I think you're talking about just the 1 year internship deferment that the Navy offers. Frankly, I'd really be pissed if I got chosen for a one year deferment. I was trying to describe the benefits of the full deferment for residency.

 

[Spang]

Yeah, I see what you mean. It would be tempting for me if I could get a full deferment to do something like urology, which is what I'm interested in. The money is a big deal and I'm so close to retiring I don't know if I could deal. Plus my wife is an east-coaster and I don't know how much longer she could take the midwest. Plus her BMW is ten years old now and I think she's getting tired of drinking cheap wine instead of a nice Brunello!!!

I think it's gonna be FP and FS or DMO for me, then off into the sunset at 20.

Who loves ya?

Antboy

 

[r90t]

You can get good PGY2 spots after doing a military internship if you decide to get out after 3-4 years.

I know for a fact that Mayo (Scottsdale) will be losing an intern at the end of this year, it's a name brand family practice program, that will be looking for a PGY2 to replace him. I got him to come to the dark side of radonc. This happens all over the country, people deciding during internship, that they want a residency change.

Some programs require you to repeat your internship year. A military example is Ortho, you know have to do the "ortho track" internship. In the past, they used to allow residents to do a transitional year, know they are repeating it. There are other residency programs that force you to repeat, as well.

 

[GMO_52]

A few points.
1. USU students being "required" to do a military internship is often to their advantage. They do not risk the late notice 1-year deferment and tend to go where they want at higher rates than HPSP students (though I can't remember the #'s off the top of my head).
2. USU students are paid more during school in exchange for that longer committment. This is important for folks with families and especially with prior enlisted service (O1E pay).
3. HPSP students have the option of doing GMO time and getting out (this is totally impractical for USU types, although there is one on the waterfront in SD with that plan).
4. I understand that USU has become somewhat more restrictive (mustering folks 3x a week) than when I was there but it is nothing like a service academy experience. The reason for this is not that they wouldn't require stuff if they could but that the body that certifies med schools only allows a certain # of required attendance hours. This is taken up by required labs.
5. I really don't think the regular navy vs USNR thing is ever likely to be an issue.

What you see from this thread is that everyone likes what they did the best which tells me that either option can work for a given individual. USU does an excellent job of showing you about the place during the interview. If you aren't sure about the military, my advice would be to do neither (because even HPSP can keep you around for years). If you are sure about joining, visit USU and wherever else you are accepted and then decide.

 

[r90t]

I'll throw this in for thought...USU turns out solid physicians. I couldn't complain about any USU graduate in my internship class, though we did have a couple of problem children from top civilian programs who took HPSP for the money.

Prior service types make loads of money compared to their civilian counterparts. Those without prior service also are better paid than their med school colleagues. $0 vs O-1 pay. No pre-existing conditions on military medicine for sponsors if you are coming into the service. Housing allowance. Really cool stuff to do in the summer. Oh, and they rotate at the military teaching facilities, to they get to see where they may potentially train, rather than as a 4 wk ad rotation.

With that said, I had a blast taking a break from the military after 13 years of training/AD time. I was able to pick a school closer to home, where I could spend some quality time with longtime friends, aging parents and very old grandmother. I also learned much about the business aspect of medicine from private physicians. Practical cost containment for people on very limited budgets for intervention/medication was never addressed in the military setting because it is free, while on the civilian side you learn very early on how to medically manage a financially poor patient.

If I could do it again, I'd go the same route. For me, after being away for so long, there was nothing better than spending time with your immediate family.

 

[Spang]

I'll throw this in for thought...USU turns out solid physicians. I couldn't complain about any USU graduate in my internship class, though we did have a couple of problem children from top civilian programs who took HPSP for the money.

Prior service types make loads of money compared to their civilian counterparts. Those without prior service also are better paid than their med school colleagues. $0 vs O-1 pay. No pre-existing conditions on military medicine for sponsors if you are coming into the service. Housing allowance. Really cool stuff to do in the summer. Oh, and they rotate at the military teaching facilities, to they get to see where they may potentially train, rather than as a 4 wk ad rotation.

With that said, I had a blast taking a break from the military after 13 years of training/AD time. I was able to pick a school closer to home, where I could spend some quality time with longtime friends, aging parents and very old grandmother. I also learned much about the business aspect of medicine from private physicians. Practical cost containment for people on very limited budgets for intervention/medication was never addressed in the military setting because it is free, while on the civilian side you learn very early on how to medically manage a financially poor patient.

If I could do it again, I'd go the same route. For me, after being away for so long, there was nothing better than spending time with your immediate family.

What he said.

 

[Heeed!]

Yeah, what he said.

 

[rotatores]

I understand that USU has become somewhat more restrictive (mustering folks 3x a week) than when I was there but it is nothing like a service academy experience.

I think we mustered about 2x's all of last year. Where they get us is montly OPD...and we have to sign in on Mon, Wed, and Fridays.

 

[Globus P]

Yeah, what he said.

Yeah, ditto.