USyd vs. Melbourne

[Dr.Millisevert]

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I havn't started looking. I will probably stay in Canada for a year before I join her. I'm a dental practice consultant, i help make dental practices more profitable.

You might want to contact the people in charge of DJS (dental job search) and Prime Practice for some information about the local market. I haven't taken any of the Prime Practice courses or hired them as a consultant.. however, I think they do something similar to your field.

You could of course try and set up your own company here if you wished as well... (especially if you had intentions of living here long term).

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

According to Redshift, its possible for Australian trained medical practioners to work in Canada, one of his older posts stated that some Australian training programs have accreditation in Canada such as General Practice.

The issue in the UK is the same for medical graduates, they used to accept Australian qualifications as if they were local. I guess it does open up doors.

Yes its getting harder to get Australian PR, especially for medical students, but from my knowledge, Dental students should not have issues, as the number of Dental schools and places have remained steady and they do not require post graduate education to be qualified. PR for medical students is kind of tricky, I knew one person who was trying to get it but did not, and his friend who studied Nursing got it. I got PR because I had training in Radiation Therapy before medical school, that was six years ago though.

You're right.. Australia doesn't require an internship year to obtain registration. As a dentist you do have the benefit of being fully licensable immediately after graduation. However, I have heard rumors that this too might change in Australia. They are talking about instituting a mandatory PGY-1 year or Internship year of sorts to obtain a dental license. They have already done this in New York State. In NY you have to at minimum complete a 1 year residency in general dental practice in order to obtain a state dental license.

So.. we'll see.

Yeah, I've heard of Family Practice/General Practice training being accredited in North America as well as Australia. Its the same in the USA. If you are an Australian trained GP with FRACGP you are eligible for immediate Board Certification by reciprocal agreement with the American Board of Family Practitioners.

 

[teamplayer7]

DJS (dental job search), right on thanks

 

[PacificBlue2012]

not really. it is clearly not a masters course because it confers a doctorate. as noted above, it is still undergraduate medical education. the immigration people would make exceptions just as CentreLink and the department of education made new rules to deal with the grad-entry MBBS.

for those that don't know, centrelink is the office that deals with social security/welfare payments. in aus, full-time LOCAL students can get welfare, "centrelink", payments to help with living expenses, but only certain courses are eligible. all undergraduate degrees are eligible. however, in general, with some exceptions, postgraduate coursework degrees are not eligible. also, doing a subsequent undergrad degree after completing a previous eligible undergrad degree makes you ineligible. this would make grad-entry MBBS students ineligible for centrelink payments. they rewrote the rule books so that grad entry mbbs students could get centrelink payments based on the fact that the grad entry mbbs courses require a previous degree.

likewise, the department of education subsidizes all local undergraduate places at public universities, including MBBS. with some exceptions it does not subsidize postgraduate places. Uni of Melbourne had to petition the department of education to enable them to offer subsidized places for the new postgrad MD course. in fact legislation eradicated full fee undergrad places a few years ago which forced all public uni's to withdraw admitting new local full fee grad-entry MBBS places. however, most postgrad coursework degrees are full-fees. because the new UniMelb MD is a postgrad course, it can offer full fee places whilst no other public Australian university can offer full fee medical student places (to locals) because no other offers a postgrad med degree (emphasis is on degree; as stated previously, it is still undergrad medical education as specialty training is postgrad medical education).

Centrelink is there to make sure you do not starve, its not welfare, and its not easy to abuse. Its not like the US where they bundle high interest student loans on you that will take your entire career to pay back and take away from your income. Honestly the system Australia has is worlds better than the US. I even got into two US medical schools and decided not to fall into that debt trap. Why don't North Americans just go back there if everything there is so peaches and cream (with that near 20 percent unemployment, yep nearly 1 in 5 Yanks on "Welfare") and Bush III (Obama) screwing all of you over. LOL.

What the US federal government did with Goldman Sachs and AIG is welfare, giving money to failing companies.

 

[pitman]

Why don't North Americans just go back there if everything there is so peaches and cream (with that near 20 percent unemployment, yep nearly 1 in 5 Yanks on "Welfare") and Bush III (Obama) screwing all of you over. LOL.

Try less than half that, down from a high of 10.1% unemployment last year, and not to be confused with welfare (in the formal sense that you're taking jaketheory to task for).

You do seem to like to bash America, mate, but there's no need to exaggerate.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

Try less than half that, down from a high of 10.1% unemployment last year, and not to be confused with welfare (in the formal sense that you're taking jaketheory to task for).

You do seem to like to bash America, mate, but there's no need to exaggerate.

That is the "official" rate and that rate fails to take into account the underemployed and those who merely gave up looking for work, also the prison population. Take a look at the U6 jobless rate, its over 16% of Americans out of work or in a McJob and you cannot live on a McJob in America. Australia is clocking at under 5 percent unemployment and the real rate is probably only slightly higher.

Fyi I grew up near Detroit, and the rate there is even worse, and Obummer was promising that he was going to put people where I am from back to work. Not a Republican just find the great one to be a colossal disappointment.

The US pretty much sucks now. I also find North Americans who come here to be really annoying, and loved it when one of my Aussie classmates told this one Canadian to go back to where he came from if he didn't like it. The moment they come here they all want to go back to North America, there was this one real annoyance who complained that there are no Costcos in Australia. Actually there is one in Melbourne but its not doing so well. I am going to be training as a GP when I finish my intern year, and an Aussie GP nearly makes twice what an America or Canadian family physician earns and also works less to, so I am going through the headache of going back to earn less and work more??!! I don't think so.

And anyway an Australian GP qualification will allow me to work in Canada if I wanted to do so, so the idea that its hard to go back is false.

The golden beaches of Sydney vs. the Post Apocalyptic scenery of Detroit??!! You got to be out your mind if you chose the latter. I had a classmate who was missing Windsor Ontario for crying out loud.

 

[pitman]

That is the "official" rate and that rate fails to take into account the underemployed and those who merely gave up looking for work, also the prison population. Take a look at the U6 jobless rate, its over 16% of Americans out of work or in a McJob and you cannot live on a McJob in America. Australia is clocking at under 5 percent unemployment and the real rate is probably only slightly higher.

You have a habit of making unqualified proclamations (like "Australia is closed to IMGs") and then defending them by saying something else. One cannot call the under-employed unemployed, or U6 the "real" unemployment rate (it gives additional information when used with U3 to assess labour markets, not "better" information), let alone equate under-employed 16 year olds with being on welfare. Remember, you implied jaketheory was an idiot for his use of the term "welfare" before you changed your post, so I'm just similarly taking you to task.

It's also tenuous to claim that Australia's equivalent (U6a) is only slightly higher than its (5.1%) official rate. On the one hand, U6 measures would generally expect to rise disproportionally in a recession, and their fall to lag the official rate's fall during recovery; and on the other hand, history suggests Australia's U6a would be expected to be significantly higher than its official rate:

year U3 U6a
--------------
1995 8.5 20.7
1996 8.5 20.8
1997 8.5 21.0
1998 8.0 20.6
1999 7.2 19.5
2000 6.6 18.3
2001 8.0 18.9
2002 7.9 18.8

http://e1.newcastle.edu.au/coffee/pubs/wp/2000/00-06.pdf
(but I'd welcome later data from anyone who can find it!).

At any rate, Australia's under-employment rate is currently 7.2%. So U6a would necessarily be >12.3% (not including discouraged job seekers).

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]&prodno=6202.0&issue=Aug 2010&num=&view=

...while there has been a significant increase in discouraged job seekers here during the GFC (as one would expect through a recession/recovery), which increase would tend to increase U6 without affecting official rates (e.g, in March, discouraged job seekers increased by 50% over the year before):

http://www.smh.com.au/national/older-workers-forced-out-of-job-market-20100324-qwt6.html

So an apples-to-apples comparison would be: US 16.7% versus Australia somewhere >12.3%. Not a monumental difference even in the 'best' case.

The US pretty much sucks now. I also find North Americans who come here to be really annoying, and loved it when one of my Aussie classmates told this one Canadian to go back to where he came from if he didn't like it. The moment they come here they all want to go back to North America, there was this one real annoyance who complained that there are no Costcos in Australia. Actually there is one in Melbourne but its not doing so well.

It's unfortunate that you haven't met North Americans here who aren't annoyingly pro-America. Maybe it's who you hang out with, or where you are.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

You have a habit of making unqualified proclamations (like "Australia is closed to IMGs") and then defending them by saying something else. One cannot call the under-employed unemployed, or U6 the "real" unemployment rate (it gives additional information when used with U3 to assess labour markets, not "better" information), let alone equate under-employed 16 year olds with being on welfare. Remember, you implied jaketheory was an idiot for his use of the term "welfare" before you changed your post, so I'm just similarly taking you to task.

It's also tenuous to claim that Australia's equivalent (U6a) is only slightly higher than its (5.1%) official rate. On the one hand, U6 measures would generally expect to rise disproportionally in a recession, and their fall to lag the official rate's fall during recovery; and on the other hand, history suggests Australia's U6a would be expected to be significantly higher than its official rate:

year U3 U6a
--------------
1995 8.5 20.7
1996 8.5 20.8
1997 8.5 21.0
1998 8.0 20.6
1999 7.2 19.5
2000 6.6 18.3
2001 8.0 18.9
2002 7.9 18.8

http://e1.newcastle.edu.au/coffee/pubs/wp/2000/00-06.pdf
(but I'd welcome later data from anyone who can find it!).

At any rate, Australia's under-employment rate is currently 7.2%. So U6a would necessarily be >12.3% (not including discouraged job seekers).

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]&prodno=6202.0&issue=Aug 2010&num=&view=

...while there has been a significant increase in discouraged job seekers here during the GFC (as one would expect through a recession/recovery), which increase would tend to increase U6 without affecting official rates (e.g, in March, discouraged job seekers increased by 50% over the year before):

http://www.smh.com.au/national/older-workers-forced-out-of-job-market-20100324-qwt6.html

So an apples-to-apples comparison would be: US 16.7% versus Australia somewhere >12.3%. Not a monumental difference even in the 'best' case.


It's unfortunate that you haven't met North Americans here who aren't annoyingly pro-America. Maybe it's who you hang out with, or where you are.

If America is so great why are you still in Australia??? Couldn't match in the US?? Why are you wasting your time?
I have not met many Americans in Australia, and the ones who are here love to rip on America just like me, I know one girl who I graduated with is a lot worse than me. Most North Americans here are Canadians, and frankly speaking I cannot stand any of them, especially their complaints about Australia. One real common one is that There is no effing Costco in Sydney, Costco is a ripoff anyway and I find stores like that to be obscene. I have heard a ton of BS from Canadians, one of the most ludicrous is that Australia is racist, its not and my wife is white Australian. My family is Turkish, and I can tell you North America is not very accommodating for people like me and hence I don't care much for North Americans either. There was a huge story on the news about a Muslim cab driver getting stabbed for no apparent reason in NYC, so telling me North America is not racist is Bull**** and also that thing in Arizona, ditto.

The US is not in recovery, if Obama is telling you that you must be dumb because he is the biggest fraud ever. In fact the mainstream media in America is questioning whether or not the US is headed back into another economic slowdown. All that spending is eventually going to catch up with the American Dollar as well, in the early 2000s an American Dollar bought as many as 2 Aussies, and now they are roughly equal, I would not be surprised if the Aussie gets stronger in the next 10 years. Australia is well placed to benefit from the growing Asian countries while America and Europe become anemic. Some of my family moved here and found it easier to find work here than back in the States. The fact is that everyday people fare better in Oz than in North America, you also forget that minimum wages are much higher in Oz than in North America. My salary as a first year registrar next year will be nearly twice what a much more overworked US resident will earn. I also worked during my years at USyd and minimum wage jobs in Australia pay a lot more than those in Canada/Usa such that I covered my living expenses pretty well, I would not be able to pull that off in North America.

And anyway Australia is still doing better than the USA. And the numbers that Australia puts out are a lot more accurate than what the American government places. The US doctors their stats to make them look better and to make a good impression on the foreign buyers of US Debt. That 16.7 percent figure is probably really larger, and if you look at Michigan and California it definitely is higher than that. There is one town near LA which as 30 percent of its population out of work. Detroit I know for a fact is even more stuffed.

No wonder Aussies call people like you seppos because you really are full of ****.

 

[KCShaw]

Oz is great, but make no mistake, there's racism. There are also large influential groups of physically and culturally disparate peoples who as individuals don't face the same racism they might in the U.S. But if you think Australia ain't got racism, you need to step back a bit and take the blinders off.

I admit, after being in Oz for even a little while, I generally avoided groups of U.S. tourists. Just a little too boistrous and self-centered in general; I still think it's partly an effect of most from the U.S. having no realization that vacation & travel for many people in other parts of the world lasts weeks to months, some even taking a year to travel, not a day or two in several different cities over the course of a week and a half.

Aussies like to rip on pretty much anyone and everyone from time to time, including themselves, and if you're OK with including you/your homeland in that...you'll probably love it. A lot of Americans are just a bit more defensive about that than others. Me, I'm willing to see fault, give credit, failure, success, and humor just about everywhere.

A lot of the younger Australians may get a bit more fired up about the U.S., what it's doing or has done, and various comparisons with Oz, etc., but a lot of older Australians still remember why they're not speaking Japanese right now. Doesn't mean they won't rap you in the backside for a laugh if you're not paying attention, though. The kind of folk who won't let you get away with being a dork or jerk, but not meanspirited or standoffish.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

Oz is great, but make no mistake, there's racism. There are also large influential groups of physically and culturally disparate peoples who as individuals don't face the same racism they might in the U.S. But if you think Australia ain't got racism, you need to step back a bit and take the blinders off.

I admit, after being in Oz for even a little while, I generally avoided groups of U.S. tourists. Just a little too boistrous and self-centered in general; I still think it's partly an effect of most from the U.S. having no realization that vacation & travel for many people in other parts of the world lasts weeks to months, some even taking a year to travel, not a day or two in several different cities over the course of a week and a half.

Aussies like to rip on pretty much anyone and everyone from time to time, including themselves, and if you're OK with including you/your homeland in that...you'll probably love it. A lot of Americans are just a bit more defensive about that than others. Me, I'm willing to see fault, give credit, failure, success, and humor just about everywhere.

A lot of the younger Australians may get a bit more fired up about the U.S., what it's doing or has done, and various comparisons with Oz, etc., but a lot of older Australians still remember why they're not speaking Japanese right now. Doesn't mean they won't rap you in the backside for a laugh if you're not paying attention, though. The kind of folk who won't let you get away with being a dork or jerk, but not meanspirited or standoffish.

Australia has racism but from what I have seen and experienced, its far less than what I have seen in the States. Even with all this jive that America has a black President, things are really the same and some ways have worsened, especially what is happening in Arizona. I know quite a few people here from the States of minority backgrounds and plenty find it a lot more laid back than the US and most are enjoying it.

Yep Aussies love to rip on America, but now that is a worldwide phenomenon, people look at America with a very new and unflattering vision, mostly because the last 10 years have not been good. I went to Europe recently and its even more intense over there, with people pinning the blame of the current global economic malaise straight on America. My parent's country, Turkey, is one of the few places where Americans are still well regarded, and its a Muslim country to boot, its kind of ironic for me to see blonde Aussies and Europeans bad talk the States. USyd professors love to rip on America, a few of my Canadian classmates wondered if it bothered me and it did not, people have a right their beliefs.

American tourists have become a rare sight in the past few years, probably a combination of the bad economy over there and the bad exchange rate. I see a lot more Canadians than Americans touring here, or maybe they were pretending to be Canadians. I did see a group of Californians talk about how Burger King is cheaper back home, I read that to think that they were feeling kind of poor.

Also Australia is in far superior economic and financial shape than the US. After all it was Wall Street that pretty much tanked the US economy. Banks and Investment Banks promoted high risk loans. subprime, and companies like Goldman Sachs made money betting those loans would default, which caused the financial crisis when they did as the real estate bubble in America popped, then the government steps in and hands more money to these thieves and now they are on their way to creating yet another catastrophe. Australia and the rest of the industrialized world does not operate like that. Even Europe is run better and Greece is small compared to what the US is going to face when the next crisis happens in a few years, we are talking hyperinflation. Australia has debt issues but nothing like the US and Australia is profiting well because of its relationship with Asia. And if the American Dollar is really stable, you must be smoking something because Gold continues to stay at very high levels.

 

[pitman]

If America is so great why are you still in Australia??? Couldn't match in the US?? Why are you wasting your time?

What are you going on about? Do you paint the whole world with such a broad brush? I never said anything about "America is so great", and your allusions are nonsensical. I took you to task for your false claims above. Period. Disagreeing with you on what constitutes welfare and unemployment, or on Australia's relative levels thereof, makes not an America-phile or an Australia-hater.

There was a huge story on the news about a Muslim cab driver getting stabbed for no apparent reason in NYC, so telling me North America is not racist is Bull**** and also that thing in Arizona, ditto.

Well, I didn't mention anything about racism, you did after deciding that the discussion was about whether America is great. There was the "huge story" here about the targeting of Lebanese and gang warfare in Sydney, and of course all those about the Indian bashings last year -- do they in themselves make Australia any more or less racist than the US? Do promises by politicians to "stop the boats"? No.

The US is not in recovery, if Obama is telling you that you must be dumb because he is the biggest fraud ever.

There you go again. No, Obama didn't tell me that, nor did I make such a claim, but the trend in the numbers you chose do. Am I still dumb?

And anyway Australia is still doing better than the USA.

Not much at all with respect to the stats you chose to tout, contrary to your claims. Your exaggerations as pointed out have been the whole point.

And the numbers that Australia puts out are a lot more accurate than what the American government places. The US doctors their stats to make them look better and to make a good impression on the foreign buyers of US Debt. That 16.7 percent figure is probably really larger, and if you look at Michigan and California it definitely is higher than that. There is one town near LA which as 30 percent of its population out of work. Detroit I know for a fact is even more stuffed.

And you believe the BLS doctors its numbers because...they disagree with your worldview?

No wonder Aussies call people like you seppos because you really are full of ****.

Hmm. Maybe you should stop using ad hominem attacks when people disagree with you, or when they're not saying what you claim they are. It really doesn't reflect well on you.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

What are you going on about? Do you paint the whole world with such a broad brush? I never said anything about "America is so great", and your allusions are nonsensical. I took you to task for your false claims above. Period. Disagreeing with you on what constitutes welfare and unemployment, or on Australia's relative levels thereof, makes not an America-phile or an Australia-hater.


Well, I didn't mention anything about racism, you did after deciding that the discussion was about whether America is great. There was the "huge story" here about the targeting of Lebanese and gang warfare in Sydney, and of course all those about the Indian bashings last year -- do they in themselves make Australia any more or less racist than the US? Do promises by politicians to "stop the boats"? No.


There you go again. No, Obama didn't tell me that, nor did I make such a claim, but the trend in the numbers you chose do. Am I still dumb?


Not much at all with respect to the stats you chose to tout, contrary to your claims. Your exaggerations as pointed out have been the whole point.


And you believe the BLS doctors its numbers because...they disagree with your worldview?


Hmm. Maybe you should stop using ad hominem attacks when people disagree with you, or when they're not saying what you claim they are. It really doesn't reflect well on you.

The gangs in Sydney are nothing compared to gangs in Detroit, where I used to live. If you want to commit murder and get away with it, Detroit is the place. I actually lived for a bit on the Western suburbs so I know what I am talking about. The way the Sydney law enforcement deal with it is different because gang problems are something relatively new to Australia, its still nothing like the USA. And as a whole cops in Australia are kind of ******* and LE is kind of lax. I got a little video of something I recorded near the Rocks where some drunk guy tried to threaten to fight the cops because his mate got a traffic citation but the cop just ignored it, if he did that in the states his ass what have been beaten worse than Rodney King. And the guy I recorded was Lebanese.

The whole thing with Indian students had nothing to with their race and more to do with being easy targets for mugging, almost all of the incidents happened during odd hours in dodgy parts of Melbourne and most of the assailants turned out to be gang youth of immigrant origin themselves, and in fact there was a news piece a while back about the gangs in Melbourne and the targeting of Indian students and the fact that LE is very lax on them. By the way the part of the Western suburbs where I lived was Parramatta which has a huge Indian population, most of them love it here. And starting up with an Indian there would get you sent to the hospital. The thing in Melbourne is a totally different issue is that most of the people who got attacked were international students living alone and often working odd hours, very different from the part of Sydney where I lived where there is a big local South Asian population. There were some incidents in Sydney but it quieted down a lot.

I happened to be married to an Anglosaxon Aussie woman myself, they are very different from Anglo Americans, tend to be a lot less religious and nationalistic. You see far less people displaying Aussie flags, in the States a US Flag seems to be on everyone's house or car.

It was funny that a few years back a few Yanks dropped out of a Queensland uni just cause there classmates called them Seppo. That was around the time I migrated to Oz. Thin skinned I say that was when Dumbya was Prez.

Living in Oz and defending America we know deep down you know Australia is better. Working in the states as a doctor plain sucks, dealing with insurance, lawsuits, long hours, student loans, no thanks. I got into 2 US schools myself but decided not to go because I did not want to be thousands of dollar in debt. My friends who went are now 250 to 300k in the hole. If I was one of them I would probably be toiling in some crummy Detroit hospital now.

There is a huge discussion on the other threads about the US economy and there are quite a few Yanks there who have as pessimistic or even worse a view than I have, take a look at it. And anyway I came from the part of the country that illustrates the USA's economic decline better than anyone, Detroit. Effing craphole town. Like I would really want to go back there from Sydney, not in a million years. I don't think Australia has a similar equivalent at all. A lot of other US states are also in serious trouble. California is in the hole big time, and that is the richest state in the country. I was actually in the Bay Area last year and there is a whole town there that declared bankruptcy, things are pretty rough there.

The US BLS numbers are inaccurate as I mentioned, for one thing in the States you only get 6 months of UI, and that is how they come up with unemployment numbers by counting the number of people who applied for UI, they never account for people who lose UI and do not find jobs and there a lot of people in that situation. Also the prison population is not counted. The number the Australians put out is a lot closer to the real jobless rate and also the minimum Aussie wage is double the US one. BTW go to Detroit, its 40 percent of the population out of work, even finding a job flipping burgers for $7 an hour is tough over there.

I am Turkish btw, there is a large Turkish population in Sydney and we contrast a lot from the Lebanese, many of whom get into gangs and other sorts of trouble. I could pass for one easily and never had problems with anyone. Its a lot different in America and a lot worse where brown person = terrorist or illegal alien. If I went to Phoenix, I would need my Green Card on me at all times. LOL.

And anyway, North America sucks ass, both Canada and the States.

 

[KCShaw]

Like with any term, the level of derogatory depends on both how it's said, and how it's received. My friends, and those who buy me drinks, can get away with saying a lot of things.

It's interesting that you mention some professors making comments about the U.S./North America. I had several Aussies sheepishly apologize to me about comments from a few profs, though I never really noticed the remarks and clearly never took them seriously. Having been around a bit, almost everywhere seems to have a population that at best grudgingly gives credit to (or tries to lump themselves in with) anything positive that happens to have a U.S. face on it (even just things out of the entertainment industry, scientific advances, etc.) while delighting in anything negative that could be applied to the U.S. That's just the life of being one of the biggest/loudest/most visible kids on the block.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

Some professors at USyd? LOL. Probably most of them I have come across have said something negative about America, and I saw some opinion polls that show Aussies tend to view America very negatively these days. Its not just in the universities here its everywhere, I knew an American girl who lived here who flat out said that being an American in Australia gave her absolutely no advantages whatsoever and in most cases but not all worked against her. When I first came here I told me I was from Canada. LOL. What do you expect anyway with the kind of foreign policy that America has? And also with what is going on domestically over there in the US, with the crappy economy, and yes its easier to find a job in Oz than in North America, glad I am in Australia. 40 million people are on food stamps in the US, that is twice the population of Oz.

I spent most of my youth in Detroit, MI. Michael Moore grew up in Flint. I guess I am Michael Moore lite.

Naah, ABC News, a fairly conservative US news outlet is saying it as well:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/rank...mbers-people-living-poverty/story?id=11327341

 

[KCShaw]

Well, yeah, most foreigners in most countries are at a disadvantage compared to locals in most things, particularly if you're there trying to live -- not just vacation. At least, even as a kid traveling around, it always seemed like that. Sure, in some of the very poor countries some people would pander to you, but that was just for money. Economic advantage can breed as much animosity as economic disadvantage. Some people would be interested just because you were foreign -> exotic. But try to get a job and fit in long term? Not everyone can do it.

In my years in Oz, including a few trips back more recently, I never felt out of place or discriminated against for being from the U.S. For being white, yes, a few times when we were rotating through some primarily aboriginal areas for school, but that was more being ignored than being afraid and was no different than how any other non-aborigine was treated. Other countries would be talked about, England, U.S., France, Indonesia, etc..some good and some bad. But not as an individual. Then again I don't embody a sense of entitlement, defensiveness/counterattacking, or holier-than-thou attitude, just as most Aussies don't. For the most part they're quietly proud of who they are, if you leave out the stolen generation and originating as a penal colony -- those can still sting a little if you're not careful. Of course I say that being originally from Georgia, something of a penal colony itself in the day.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

Well, yeah, most foreigners in most countries are at a disadvantage compared to locals in most things, particularly if you're there trying to live -- not just vacation. At least, even as a kid traveling around, it always seemed like that. Sure, in some of the very poor countries some people would pander to you, but that was just for money. Economic advantage can breed as much animosity as economic disadvantage. Some people would be interested just because you were foreign -> exotic. But try to get a job and fit in long term? Not everyone can do it.

In my years in Oz, including a few trips back more recently, I never felt out of place or discriminated against for being from the U.S. For being white, yes, a few times when we were rotating through some primarily aboriginal areas for school, but that was more being ignored than being afraid and was no different than how any other non-aborigine was treated. Other countries would be talked about, England, U.S., France, Indonesia, etc..some good and some bad. But not as an individual. Then again I don't embody a sense of entitlement, defensiveness/counterattacking, or holier-than-thou attitude, just as most Aussies don't. For the most part they're quietly proud of who they are, if you leave out the stolen generation and originating as a penal colony -- those can still sting a little if you're not careful. Of course I say that being originally from Georgia, something of a penal colony itself in the day.

When were you in Oz? When I was initially moving to Australia in 2004, being from America was cool but I noticed every increasing amounts of negative feeling regarding America. A lot of events happened that made America look bad to a lot of people since then, Katrina and Bush's reelection being two really big ones and of course the financial crisis, Obama's election was largely a positive. And one girl I knew copped it really bad, she outright told me people were jerks to her the moment they found out she was an American even though she had strong anti US feeling herself. For the last couple of years the big attention has been on the financial crisis and the bad economy in the US, most people I know in Oz have a really down view of that. In general being from the US is though is not going to get you into fights but it certainly will not give you advantages either. My classmates kept incessantly commenting last year when the Dollar kept falling against the Aussie in 2009, I was wondering what they were getting at.

I do quite a bit of international travel and I have noticed a rather steady decline in people's view of the US over the past 10 years. Things were really good 10 years ago and have been steadily declining since.

 

[pitman]

For the last couple of years the big attention has been on the financial crisis and the bad economy in the US, most people I know in Oz have a really down view of that. In general being from the US is though is not going to get you into fights but it certainly will not give you advantages either. My classmates kept incessantly commenting last year when the Dollar kept falling against the Aussie in 2009, I was wondering what they were getting at.

And most people are ignorant, not understanding that European banks did the exact same things that Wall St. banks were doing (and govts doing far worse wrt to sovereign debt) and were just as culpable for the meltdown; nor appreciating that recessions come and go and do not imply some inevitable downfall of America, or the free market (as Rudd touted, not long after proselytizing on the supposedly biggest moral challenge of our time).

None of that will stop people from prophesizing Truth based on their worldviews and anecdotes of course...

 

[PacificBlue2012]

And most people are ignorant, not understanding that European banks did the exact same things that Wall St. banks were doing (and govts doing far worse wrt to sovereign debt) and were just as culpable for the meltdown; nor appreciating that recessions come and go and do not imply some inevitable downfall of America, or the free market (as Rudd touted, not long after proselytizing on the supposedly biggest moral challenge of our time).

None of that will stop people from prophesizing Truth based on their worldviews and anecdotes of course...

I never said Europe was better either, in fact, I seriously think the Western developed nations as we know it are going to lose their edge. Australia was the only developed country that did not fall over and the only reason has been trade with Asia, particularly China and India, driving demand for Australian resources. The entire developed world, EU, Japan, and the US are in a serious debt crisis.

The smart money is on Asia these days not the US, the US will skittle by but it won't be like the last half of the 20th Century in anyway shape or form. The look on Obama's face says it all. America's downfall, its more proper to call it decline. Its already occurring. The government still seems eager to fight in Afghanistan while on the domestic front basic human services are being cut, to me that is called overstretch, when you can barely take care of things at home. You obviously have not been in the States for an extended period of time, things are going bad over there, cities and states in serious financial distress. California for example is on the verge of getting a federal bailout, from where that money is coming from, who really knows.

The freemarket in America is disappearing, large companies in are now government controlled such as GM and Goldman Sachs. We'll see how that works out. Once its all done, there will be two classes of people in America, the ultra rich, and the poor, the middle class today will soon be the poor.

 

[KCShaw]

I was there until mid 2004, and have been back a some few weeks each since, last time early this year.

I certainly don't blindly think any country, including the U.S., always does the best things on the whole. And there's certainly economic problems plaguing the U.S. these days, which has tugged on the strings of other economies in turn. A lot of people are hard on a country or its denizens, for the most part, if somehow it affects them in turn.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

I was there until mid 2004, and have been back a some few weeks each since, last time early this year.

I certainly don't blindly think any country, including the U.S., always does the best things on the whole. And there's certainly economic problems plaguing the U.S. these days, which has tugged on the strings of other economies in turn. A lot of people are hard on a country or its denizens, for the most part, if somehow it affects them in turn.

I noticed a big difference between 2004 and now. When you told you people you came from the US back then, it was as if you were cool, now its mostly complete indifference.

 

[KCShaw]

And I always just thought -I- was cool..!

 

[PacificBlue2012]

And I always just thought -I- was cool..!

Well I am guessing it has more to do with how things have panned out, even during that time, America was kind of sexy, posh, and cool back then, its not the case anymore, I guess we're out of fashion. Now people see us as broke and down and out. Australia also has becoming more Asia centric and Asia is seen as cool, especially by young Aussies, that where the money is going these days. Its clear when you were there in the early 2000s things were different, I am sure it was a lot cheaper to be in Oz back then, its now very expensive for students to study here.

 

[pitman]

You obviously have not been in the States for an extended period of time, things are going bad over there, cities and states in serious financial distress. California for example is on the verge of getting a federal bailout, from where that money is coming from, who really knows.

The freemarket in America is disappearing, large companies in are now government controlled such as GM and Goldman Sachs. We'll see how that works out. Once its all done, there will be two classes of people in America, the ultra rich, and the poor, the middle class today will soon be the poor.

I was there not too long ago, but "seeing" anecdotes doesn't necessarily make for better understanding. I also used to work for Goldman Sachs, though that really has little effect on my opinions on financial regulation except for any industry insight gained from understanding a little of GS' vision and management structure. At any rate, Goldman is not being "controlled" by the US govt in any sense that it can be said of GM. There was govt extortion for sure in response to how it marketed one commodity, similar to govt extortion from BP without due process, but that's not controlling in the sense that the govt changed GM's makeup of car dealerships and management structure and continues to affect its market vision. They're apples and oranges and don't really support the notion of govt control of industry in general (as bailed out banks pay the govt back for example, they lose any strings, ergo no such govt control).

While I agree there has been a recent US "decline" of sorts, I see it in the perspective of recent history -- there was the "decline" of the 70s which didn't really turn around until the early 80s (meanwhile Japan was slated to take over, according to many), there was the Australian dollar on par with the USD back in the 50s, there have been other recessions before and since, and so on. That this recession is deeper than many others doesn't say much about the future (there hadn't been a 'big one' in the US since the 70s, so many don't have that historical perspective), and it also has yet to be a notably long one.

California in particular is a bad example to use, as it has been financially inept for a decade because it's been a Big Govt state with fascist tendencies and a history of really stupid energy policies for example, akin to Greece in that the GFC (or financial markets) isn't what caused the problem, it just exacerbated very poor management to the tipping point, and both probably should go broke in order to fix the underlying problem since bailouts won't.

I also think that what people perceive (and as Rudd the quasi-populist was mimicking) as a failure of the "free market" is as much a misunderstanding of markets and/or a reflection of anti-globalization worldviews (early GFC alarmism was most certainly wrong), as it is a myopic view of temporal shifts like the fear of "decline of individual rights" post-911 (I don't deny some loss of freedoms, but the point being that a short-term trend does not imply any medium or longterm decline...maybe a better analogy would be global climate and temperature trends 😛 ).

Bush and Iraq and economic globalization and global warming alarmism have naturally made the US an even bigger target than it had been, and so with the GFC there's been some finger-pointing and wishful thinking on the part of many pundits and audiences that Western capitalism, American in particular, is both at fault for the ills of mankind, and doomed. And a current left-wing govt gives ammunition internally (esp. for Fox) to jump and point the finger at any imposition of market restrictions (like in health care), thus paradoxically reinforcing perceptions of a decline in the free market. But as a result, the relatively anti-regulation Republicans are once again becoming popular...

So basically, while I agree wholeheartedly it's been a couple years of US economic badness with arguably misguided govt interventions in response to an under-regulation of financial markets, but this follows almost a decade of relative prosperity, following a post internet bubble burst and huge economic slowdown, following a decade of incredible prosperity, following a recession, following incredible prosperity and de-regulation (by Reagan and Hawke/Keating in the two countries at hand), following a deep and protracted international stagnation due to oil shortages and over-regulation...and there's really no reason to believe such pendulum swings won't continue, for all countries.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

I was there not too long ago, but "seeing" anecdotes doesn't necessarily make for better understanding. I also used to work for Goldman Sachs, though that really has little effect on my opinions on financial regulation except for any industry insight gained from understanding a little of GS' vision and management structure. At any rate, Goldman is not being "controlled" by the US govt in any sense that it can be said of GM. There was govt extortion for sure in response to how it marketed one commodity, similar to govt extortion from BP without due process, but that's not controlling in the sense that the govt changed GM's makeup of car dealerships and management structure and continues to affect its market vision. They're apples and oranges and don't really support the notion of govt control of industry in general (as bailed out banks pay the govt back for example, they lose any strings, ergo no such govt control).

While I agree there has been a recent US "decline" of sorts, I see it in the perspective of recent history -- there was the "decline" of the 70s which didn't really turn around until the early 80s (meanwhile Japan was slated to take over, according to many), there was the Australian dollar on par with the USD back in the 50s, there have been other recessions before and since, and so on. That this recession is deeper than many others doesn't say much about the future (there hadn't been a 'big one' in the US since the 70s, so many don't have that historical perspective), and it also has yet to be a notably long one.

California in particular is a bad example to use, as it has been financially inept for a decade because it's been a Big Govt state with fascist tendencies and a history of really stupid energy policies for example, akin to Greece in that the GFC (or financial markets) isn't what caused the problem, it just exacerbated very poor management to the tipping point, and both probably should go broke in order to fix the underlying problem since bailouts won't.

I also think that what people perceive (and as Rudd the quasi-populist was mimicking) as a failure of the "free market" is as much a misunderstanding of markets and/or a reflection of anti-globalization worldviews (early GFC alarmism was most certainly wrong), as it is a myopic view of temporal shifts like the fear of "decline of individual rights" post-911 (I don't deny some loss of freedoms, but the point being that a short-term trend does not imply any medium or longterm decline...maybe a better analogy would be global climate and temperature trends 😛 ).

Bush and Iraq and economic globalization and global warming alarmism have naturally made the US an even bigger target than it had been, and so with the GFC there's been some finger-pointing and wishful thinking on the part of many pundits and audiences that Western capitalism, American in particular, is both at fault for the ills of mankind, and doomed. And a current left-wing govt gives ammunition internally (esp. for Fox) to jump and point the finger at any imposition of market restrictions (like in health care), thus paradoxically reinforcing perceptions of a decline in the free market. But as a result, the relatively anti-regulation Republicans are once again becoming popular...

So basically, while I agree wholeheartedly it's been a couple years of US economic badness with arguably misguided govt interventions in response to an under-regulation of financial markets, but this follows almost a decade of relative prosperity, following a post internet bubble burst and huge economic slowdown, following a decade of incredible prosperity, following a recession, following incredible prosperity and de-regulation (by Reagan and Hawke/Keating in the two countries at hand), following a deep and protracted international stagnation due to oil shortages and over-regulation...and there's really no reason to believe such pendulum swings won't continue, for all countries.

I completely disagree this is the beginning of a long term decline, it might not be rapid, but a gradual loss of economic robustness from America. Already since you revealed you worked for GS, I am going to make some assumptions. First of all the US middle class is being gradually destroyed, and the US middle class is responsible for much of what America achieved. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were both products of middle America. Middle America created a social cushion between the rich and poor which led to its political stability. Europe in the old days used to have a wide chasm between its rich and poor and hence Europe was politically unstable. Things are changing. I seriously doubt any major economic turn around is going to happen in the US, at best it will be mild growth, the economy has been slow for two years and its tipping back into recession. Yes the Republicans are popular yet again but they are just as useless as the Democrats. Watch, the economy will be crap in 2012 to the point that Obama will blame the Republicans(and he is really good at doing that) and he will get a second term as President. It really matters little. Japan had no chance of overtaking the US, that was just yellow peril paranoia in the 80s. China and India really will overtake the USA, since collectively they have over 10 times the population. Also it silly to say Japan would ever achieve topping the US because it has been militarily dependent on America. Neither China nor India depend on America for defense, and both are close with Russia. Things are set to change dramatically over the next 20 years. It won't happen overnight but its going to happen quite quickly.

You mention Europe, Europe these days is a lot better integrated than anytime in the past. They do have their problems but unlike our government, they are addressing their overspending while ours continues to deepen our debt. In fact by 2020 US government debt will balloon to 19 Trillion. Europe is in debt too but at least their governments are beginning to address the problems. Ours is like a bankrupt person buying a round of drinks for everyone at a pub with his credit card.

Now that I know you were associated with a criminal entity like Goldman Sachs, I really will scrutinize anything you say. The employees of that company as well as Blankfein should put in prison, the fact that they are not and getting bailout money to continue such criminal activity disgusts me. Its clear they have clout with the government and Obama is largely their man in Washington. Big government?? If more goverment regulation was in place, this crisis would not have happened and its the unchecked behavior of Goldman Sachs and its other firms that made the US economy go over a cliff. And the solution to get out of it is let these criminals do more?? Give me a break. I used the wrong phrases for Goldman, the government does not control them but they sure have a lot of control over the government. Paulson and Rubin come to my mind. And Blankfein is a big supporter of the Democratic party.

I have never seen this level of criminality in Australia and its ironic since Australia was initially founded as a colony for convicts.

Europe has had its issues, but I have not heard of the ECB loaning money to their investment banks so their bankers could get their hefty bonuses. And the Eurozone is still healthier overall than the USA. Deutsche Bank took the high road when their CEO refused to take his 20 million Euro salary the year of the financial crisis and froze bonuses for its executives.

Why leave Goldman for Queensland Health anyhow? You could have bought a Porsche biannually courtesy of the US taxpayer. And if you really believe America will come back why not go back there and do your residency there? If you wanted to work in the US, your training in Australia will not count and you will have to go through residency all over again.

 

[pitman]

You mention Europe, Europe these days is a lot better integrated than anytime in the past. They do have their problems but unlike our government, they are addressing their overspending while ours continues to deepen our debt. In fact by 2020 US government debt will balloon to 19 Trillion. Europe is in debt too but at least their governments are beginning to address the problems. Ours is like a bankrupt person buying a round of drinks for everyone at a pub with his credit card.

Um, the EU just violated its own constitution to bail out Greece. There's been talk of possible Euro collapse, which could happen if countries start to bail out in response to Greece again failing, or if Spain or Iceland fail, since it's other countries (particularly France and Germany) which have to pick up the tab for that 'blank credit card'. There's no real alternative to bailouts, 'cause EU countries don't have their own currency to print as part of a standard last resort when they're going broke, and there's no mechanism to force Greece or another EU broke country to reform.

Meanwhile Spain is just about as screwed as Greece, Iceland is close to bankruptcy, France has had a horrible economy for decades and is still struggling to restructure its socialist ways in order not to go broke as its population ages. Germany has had a sluggish economy for about as long. Italy has massive problems and is also doing far worse than the US. Then there's Eastern Europe...

Mate, if you want to talk about sovereign debt, what matters are two things: 1) debt as % of GDP; and 2) the market's confidence that the debt will be paid off (reflected by the credit rating, which factors in #1). You can see the former here, where you'll see that the US is much better off than most of Europe (3 EU countries are among the worst 10 in the world; Scandinavia/Switzerland are the exceptions):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_public_debt
The latter you can see here (note the US is still at AAA, with many EU countries like Greece way way below that since they're high risk):
http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/articles/en/us/?assetID=1245219962821

Already since you revealed you worked for GS, I am going to make some assumptions.

Now that I know you were associated with a criminal entity like Goldman Sachs, I really will scrutinize anything you say. The employees of that company as well as Blankfein should put in prison

So...basically you're saying that from now on you'll be more liberal with your ad hominems? Because of guilt by association? Yep, 30,000 people should be put into prison because they work for GS...right.

Why leave Goldman for Queensland Health anyhow? You could have bought a Porsche biannually courtesy of the US taxpayer. And if you really believe America will come back why not go back there and do your residency there? If you wanted to work in the US, your training in Australia will not count and you will have to go through residency all over again.

Why would I base where I live on how powerful a country's economy is? What a bizarre assumption about another person. Not to mention a false generalization about residency.

PacificBlue, you continue to make broad generalizations (and prejudices), make easily falsified assertions, and then shift your arguments when that's pointed out, in what appears to be an attempt to fit a foregone conclusion. Fine, you think Australia rocks and the US is crap. You're entitled to that. But it'd be wise to stop throwing out misinformation as justification and just admit you're likely rationalizing your feelings.

That's it. I'm not responding to you on this subject any more. It's too tedious.

 

[teamplayer7]

I agree, way too tedious. This is why I stopped replying.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

Um, the EU just violated its own constitution to bail out Greece. There's been talk of possible Euro collapse, which could happen if countries start to bail out in response to Greece again failing, or if Spain or Iceland fail, since it's other countries (particularly France and Germany) which have to pick up the tab for that 'blank credit card'. There's no real alternative to bailouts, 'cause EU countries don't have their own currency to print as part of a standard last resort when they're going broke, and there's no mechanism to force Greece or another EU broke country to reform.

Meanwhile Spain is just about as screwed as Greece, Iceland is close to bankruptcy, France has had a horrible economy for decades and is still struggling to restructure its socialist ways in order not to go broke as its population ages. Germany has had a sluggish economy for about as long. Italy has massive problems and is also doing far worse than the US. Then there's Eastern Europe...

Mate, if you want to talk about sovereign debt, what matters are two things: 1) debt as % of GDP; and 2) the market's confidence that the debt will be paid off (reflected by the credit rating, which factors in #1). You can see the former here, where you'll see that the US is much better off than most of Europe (3 EU countries are among the worst 10 in the world; Scandinavia/Switzerland are the exceptions):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_public_debt
The latter you can see here (note the US is still at AAA, with many EU countries like Greece way way below that since they're high risk):
http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/articles/en/us/?assetID=1245219962821




So...basically you're saying that from now on you'll be more liberal with your ad hominems? Because of guilt by association? Yep, 30,000 people should be put into prison because they work for GS...right.


Why would I base where I live on how powerful a country's economy is? What a bizarre assumption about another person. Not to mention a false generalization about residency.

PacificBlue, you continue to make broad generalizations (and prejudices), make easily falsified assertions, and then shift your arguments when that's pointed out, in what appears to be an attempt to fit a foregone conclusion. Fine, you think Australia rocks and the US is crap. You're entitled to that. But it'd be wise to stop throwing out misinformation as justification and just admit you're likely rationalizing your feelings.

That's it. I'm not responding to you on this subject any more. It's too tedious.

Mate whatever. And why do you make assumptions about me actually caring about the EU or thinking that Europe is a better version of America? If it was EU vs USA, I would easily take the USA over Europe any day. Europe bites moose balls, and their economies are completely in the crapper, I see boatloads of Europeans trying to migrate to Oz.

Australia does rock and North America sucks....in comparison, but that is my experience, I am just a North American going against the grain of what most North Americans perceive about life down under. I often had to go through the experience of my fellow North Americans whing about what Australia does not have(Costco, Taco Bell, Cheap High Fructose Corn Syrup Coca Cola, Cheap Movie Tickets, Cheap electronics, Cheap Cars, Cheap Gas, Driving on the other side of the Road) than what it has, I totally rolled my eyes when one girl who complained to me that she missed Costco, whatever. A lot of them have some sense of entitlement . Hey, I get withdrawals for Oporto and Spinach and Cheese Pide(things that are available just about everywhere in Sydney) when I visit North America but if I publicly whined about over there I would get roasted. Its as if life is roses and wine in North America, when its not, life is not roses and wine in Australia either, but I think its a great place to live and had a lot of good things happened to me here, I became a doctor, married a beautiful woman, and live the life I wanted to live and it just turned out that my dream was fulfilled in Australia.

I was just recently in the States in California and found things there to be quite expensive.

 

[The Articulator]

That is the "official" rate and that rate fails to take into account the underemployed and those who merely gave up looking for work, also the prison population. Take a look at the U6 jobless rate, its over 16% of Americans out of work or in a McJob and you cannot live on a McJob in America. Australia is clocking at under 5 percent unemployment and the real rate is probably only slightly higher.

Fyi I grew up near Detroit, and the rate there is even worse, and Obummer was promising that he was going to put people where I am from back to work. Not a Republican just find the great one to be a colossal disappointment.

The US pretty much sucks now. I also find North Americans who come here to be really annoying, and loved it when one of my Aussie classmates told this one Canadian to go back to where he came from if he didn't like it. The moment they come here they all want to go back to North America, there was this one real annoyance who complained that there are no Costcos in Australia. Actually there is one in Melbourne but its not doing so well. I am going to be training as a GP when I finish my intern year, and an Aussie GP nearly makes twice what an America or Canadian family physician earns and also works less to, so I am going through the headache of going back to earn less and work more??!! I don't think so.

And anyway an Australian GP qualification will allow me to work in Canada if I wanted to do so, so the idea that its hard to go back is false.

The golden beaches of Sydney vs. the Post Apocalyptic scenery of Detroit??!! You got to be out your mind if you chose the latter. I had a classmate who was missing Windsor Ontario for crying out loud.

HAHAHAH

I'm from Windsor, Ontario. I can't wait to start Bdent in Feb 2011 and leave Windsor Ontario behind me..... for good.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

HAHAHAH

I'm from Windsor, Ontario. I can't wait to start Bdent in Feb 2011 and leave Windsor Ontario behind me..... for good.

You will definitely like it here, I am from the other side of the lake, Detroit, and winters in Sydney are mild, you will not have to be shoveling snow to get to class.

 

[DJizzle]

I do think the US has alot of problems. US Government Debt has skyrocketed, primarily due to poor decisions made by the Bush Administration. 1) Funding a tax cut by borrowing money (2) Invading Iraq with a less than convincing reason(and not finishing the job off in the process Afghanistan allowing the Taliban to regroup) and spending unnecessary billions in the process

They're obviously got some problems now that they had to resort to "quantitive easing" since they can't cut interest rates any further and they've borrowed enough money.

But on the same note, I do think there has been some hyperbole in this thread. You can't compare Sydney to Detroit, one of the worst and most dangerous cities in America. The WORST out of all major cities. I mean when a city like Cleveland (also got major issues) claims "We're not Detroit" as a positive, you know that Detroit has some SERIOUS issues.

San Diego or the Los Angeles suburbs (Orange County etc) might be a more accurate comparison to Sydney in terms of their positive attributes. eg great weather, suburban living, beaches etc etc..... Yeah, Cali has its own share of problems but so does the NSW State Government.

I wish Costco had a bigger presence down under. Mainly due to price gouging by the Coles/Woolies duopoly. So essentially, for grocery prices to go cheaper as whole due to more competition rather than desiring Costco itself though.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

I do think the US has alot of problems. US Government Debt has skyrocketed, primarily due to poor decisions made by the Bush Administration. 1) Funding a tax cut by borrowing money (2) Invading Iraq with a less than convincing reason(and not finishing the job off in the process Afghanistan allowing the Taliban to regroup) and spending unnecessary billions in the process

They're obviously got some problems now that they had to resort to "quantitive easing" since they can't cut interest rates any further and they've borrowed enough money.

But on the same note, I do think there has been some hyperbole in this thread. You can't compare Sydney to Detroit, one of the worst and most dangerous cities in America. The WORST out of all major cities. I mean when a city like Cleveland (also got major issues) claims "We're not Detroit" as a positive, you know that Detroit has some SERIOUS issues.

San Diego or the Los Angeles suburbs (Orange County etc) might be a more accurate comparison to Sydney in terms of their positive attributes. eg great weather, suburban living, beaches etc etc..... Yeah, Cali has its own share of problems but so does the NSW State Government.

I wish Costco had a bigger presence down under. Mainly due to price gouging by the Coles/Woolies duopoly. So essentially, for grocery prices to go cheaper as whole due to more competition rather than desiring Costco itself though.

Why not LA the city?? I was just in San Francisco, honestly thought the place was rather sketchy compared to Sydney. Pockets of rich with many poor areas. I have heard people say Western Sydney is sketchy but honestly the East Bay region of San Francisco is far more dangerous.

I lived in several parts of the US but grew up in Detroit(Seattle, Chicago, Boston, Miami), also got some experience in Europe, Australia is easily the best place on Earth, although I might be biased.

I am glad Costco does not exist in a large presence in Australia, its junk that they sell. Aldi is making a presence in Australia and I find that to be a better discount store because you do not have to pay membership and you do not have to buy insane quantities of things.

There are lot of stores besides Coles and Woolies in Sydney. Sydney in general is a pricey town, other parts of Australia are very different.

The Aussie is hitting yet a new high against the American Dollar, making going to school here a very expensive proposition. And Bush. LOL. Bush has been out of office for nearly 2 years, Obama came in on a horse proclaiming hope and change, and now infuriated voters will kick his party out of power in November, and he will probably be packing his bags in 2012, and whoever follows will disappoint as well. Obama has been a disaster just like Bush, in some ways worse because he was talking to Main Street but was working for Wall Street and elites all along. Billions??? LOL. Try 1.5 Trillion spent in his first year on the "stimulus" which has been a disaster now with talk of the US tipping back into a recession. As a former native of Detroit I myself was captivated by his plans to reinvigorate Detroit and American manufacturing to build a green future, whatever happened to that. Now only I realize he is a liar and con artist in the pay of Wall Street.

I love to talk about Detroit primarily because manufacturing and industry turned the United States into a global powerhouse, and the loss of manufacturing has hit working class people hard, its not just Detroit but many former manufacturing centers in America are suffering. For the last 20 years America has turned into a service and information oriented economy but the problem is that there are not nearly enough Googles, Apples, Facebooks, etc, to create opportunities for ordinary people the way the manufacturing industry once did, hence more wealth is going to the richest people and the middle class are getting shafted. People got to go to college to get a job in a service profession but now that is not a guarantee. A lot of people snubbed off the demise of Detroit as nothing but now Wall Street is in the ****s, Silicon Valley is largely the same with jobs going to India and elsewhere. I met a former software engineer in the Bay Area who is reduced to managing a pizza shop. A lot of other former entrepreneurs who did not make it big are struggling to make ends meet. Hardly a nice image I see in America and its no mystery to me why so many Americans are angry and now venting on the current government of Obummer.

Speaking of Detroit, what could be the next Detroit:
http://www.newsweek.com/2009/01/24/silicon-valley-s-fork-in-the-road.html

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-02-22/news/17950763_1_bankruptcy-treasurer-bill-lockyer-golden-state

 

[pitman]

And the Eurozone is still healthier overall than the USA.

You mention Europe, Europe these days is a lot better integrated than anytime in the past. They do have their problems but unlike our government, they are addressing their overspending while ours continues to deepen our debt. In fact by 2020 US government debt will balloon to 19 Trillion. Europe is in debt too but at least their governments are beginning to address the problems. Ours is like a bankrupt person buying a round of drinks for everyone at a pub with his credit card.

An Irish pub?

 

[PacificBlue2012]

An Irish pub?

Wow this conversation went from Sydney vs Melbourne to Euros vs. US Dollars. Anyhow having the choice between the two, I rather have Australian Dollars and Gold. One is a currency tied to the fastest growing economy on Earth and the other is just plain valuable.

USyd, and U Melbourne are both good schools with strong research and well known internationally.