Vanderbilt vs UPMC vs WashU?

[Nunchuk]

Very impressed by the case loads and training at all of these programs and had a similar positive 'gut feel' for them as well. They are all also in lower cost-of-living small to mid size cities which I don't know too much about besides what I heard on IV day.

I would love any insights on any differences in quality/training/reputation/post-residency opportunities of these programs that I may have missed picking up on IV day. Further context, I am interested in cardiac and critical care, but have not fully ruled out Peds yet. Thanks in advance!

Edit: Fwiw all are almost equidistant to family members too, so I certainly don't have a certain preference for that reason..

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Psai]

Can't really go wrong here but I hear vandy is a paradise for midlevel advancement. I'd avoid it.

 

[deleted50478]

Very impressed by the case loads and training at all of these programs and had a similar positive 'gut feel' for them as well. They are all also in lower cost-of-living small to mid size cities which I don't know too much about besides what I heard on IV day.

I would love any insights on any differences in quality/training/reputation/post-residency opportunities of these programs that I may have missed picking up on IV day. Further context, I am interested in cardiac and critical care, but have not fully ruled out Peds yet. Thanks in advance!

Those all sound good.

PS: they are all major metropolitan areas, not small to midsized.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

WashU > Vanderbilt > UPMC

 

[anaesthetic]

.

 

[psychbender]

I am actually really surprised that Vandy has not gotten a lot of backlash for this. There are "cardiac" CRNAs who "teach" new cardiac fellows how to read TEEs, and that's disturbing to me that they would encourage this. This is secondhand information from someone who interviewed there for ACTA fellowship so take it with a grain of salt, but I wouldn't be surprised since that's the culture there. They are selling out our specialty one CRNA at a time.

Not just our specialty. They train NPs with BS 'fellowships' in other fields. It was a strong strike against them when I interviewed there for fellowship.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

 

[26B]

Didn't interview at Vandy. Between WashU and UPMC, both are strong programs, but I personally liked WashU better.

 

[abolt18]

Loved WashU. Their cardiac and CCM programs are strong per my understanding. Most of their cardiac faculty are dual trained, usually CT/CCM but some are CT + trauma or liver or something. I did a month rotation there as a med student and really felt great there.

St. Louis is an awesome place to live IMO. Tons of free stuff to do. Great place to raise a family.

 

[Modanq]

Agree regarding any prospective program. CRNA and NP education over resident being advanced at all levels. Must be aware. Shocking what is out there from all specialties.

 

[bigdan]

I trained at UPMC and loved it.

I've posted a bunch on my love for UPMC; I graduated 5 years ago (holy sh%t!) so thing may have changed, but:
- robust commitment to resident training and education (to wit: my CA3 year we had 39 of 70 total residents in the department present posters at ASA. All 39 were given the time off and funded to go. Also - all lectures were mandatory - you HAD to be relieved to go. Lots of great simulation education, considerable opportunities to do scholarly work, easy link ups with folks for research if so desired)
- I trained CCM and CT. There were no issues/concerns with leaving UPMC for another institution at interview time. In fact, folks asked why I would leave UPMC to seek CCM training, given the UPMC CCM reputation. That said, as a minor digression, my CCM year at University of Michigan was the single best year of medical education in my career.
- the exposure gained to a multitude of the "right way to do things" cannot be overstated. Maybe the same at WU. Rumor has it there is/was a "Vandy Way" to put in central lines. But I rotated at 8 hospitals in two countries (UPMC has a hospital in Italy), and got a ton of insight on how many different ways there are to skin that anesthesia cat. Loved it.

You can't go wrong with any of the places you're asking about; you've got a good "problem" if you're considering the 3 programs you asked about.

Great luck!

 

[AdmiralChz]

@Psai Oh really? Yeah... definitely did not catch that on IV day haha

That’s what many of us has been saying - programs never mention or totally gloss over weaknesses. This is a nuanced issue that, unless you knew somehow to ask, youd probably not recognize until halfway through intern or CA-1 year. It’s a bit conspiracy theorist, but at my program it was controlled who went to dinner so the “complainers” weren’t sent.

 

[sethco]

Can't really go wrong here but I hear vandy is a paradise for midlevel advancement. I'd avoid it.

UPMC is just as bad in this respect. Maybe even worse. Agree with BigDan, though. Still really good training

 

[Psai]

Yeah programs are definitely not mentioning anything of that nature besides "we have plenty of CRNAs to relieve our residents"... Any other noteworthy programs that are such 'paradises for midlevel advancement' to look out for?

Someone posted in another thread that vandy uses CRNAs to teach echo to their cardiac fellows. A program in Boston has SRNAs in their cardiac rooms to take away educational opportunities while residents are put in things like TAVRs. Cleveland Clinic is also rumored to be similar in this regard.

Nunchuk, at least two of the programs on your no crna school list have SRNAs training there.

 

[deleted684261]

Someone posted in another thread that vandy uses CRNAs to teach echo to their cardiac fellows. A program in Boston has SRNAs in their cardiac rooms to take away educational opportunities while residents are put in things like TAVRs. Cleveland Clinic is also rumored to be similar in this regard.

Nunchuk, at least two of the programs on your no crna school list have SRNAs training there.

Cardiac division at CCF was the most educational minded among others. Residents and fellows get preference for cases, no questions asked. Dr. Trombetta and Hargrave will put resident's and fellow education above everything. SRNA and CRNA doesn't come anywhere anywhere near encroaching on my training.

I like vandy a lot when I was interviewing. Their cardiac division is growing quite substantially and their volumes are on the way up. Their CCM trainig is also quite comprehensive. one of my partner did cardiac fellowship at vandy and smartest guy i known...

 

[narcusprince]

But I always wanted to be taught echo from CRNAs..

I knew a few that were excellent at swallowing a scope.... too easy......

 

[Status Sciaticus]

On the basis of?

location, workload, ego of certain institutions using dreamteam in their URL, placing residents above CRNAs, etc...

 

[NightNight]

I am actually really surprised that Vandy has not gotten a lot of backlash for this. There are "cardiac" CRNAs who "teach" new cardiac fellows how to read TEEs, and that's disturbing to me that they would encourage this. This is secondhand information from someone who interviewed there for ACTA fellowship so take it with a grain of salt, but I wouldn't be surprised since that's the culture there. They are selling out our specialty one CRNA at a time.

OK. So while I won't deny that Vanderbilt is in fact a paradise for midlevels (especially in ICUs), the above is patently false. There are CRNAs in the cardiac ORs (would be difficult to run their volume without them), but they don't teach new fellows how to read TEEs, and it's certainly not encouraged behavior. As with all midlevels, there are some who think they know more than they actually do (or confuse familiarity with knowledge), and I'm sure on more than one occasion a cardiac CRNA there has tried to "explain" something on the TEE to a resident or fellow. This, I'm certain, was met with eye rolls by attending and trainee both.

 

[Nargosi]

OK. So while I won't deny that Vanderbilt is in fact a paradise for midlevels (especially in ICUs), the above is patently false. There are CRNAs in the cardiac ORs (would be difficult to run their volume without them), but they don't teach new fellows how to read TEEs, and it's certainly not encouraged behavior. As with all midlevels, there are some who think they know more than they actually do (or confuse familiarity with knowledge), and I'm sure on more than one occasion a cardiac CRNA there has tried to "explain" something on the TEE to a resident or fellow. This, I'm certain, was met with eye rolls by attending and trainee both.

This is the correct story

 

[Man o War]

I can also verify this isn’t true. CRNAs are not teaching echo at Vandy. They probably wish they were.
SDN is a trip.