Vascular Surgery (Integrated) + Surgical Critical Care Fellowship

[ARAV_Rocky]

Hi all,

I want to preface this post by clarifying that I'm asking this question purely out of curiosity, and not some mad dash to figure out what specialty I want to pursue after medical school. I don't know what I want to pursue, I'm definitely keeping an open mind and waiting until rotations, I'm just curious about a particular career path!

I work under some intensivists now and hearing about their paths to their respective specialties led me on a google search trail to the ABS Critical Care website. I noticed that to qualify for board certification in surgical critical care, you can have completed a residency in an integrated vascular surgery program (0+5). Do you know of any vascular surgeons who go on to complete critical care fellowships? Do they serve a niche in the SICU?

Thanks for the responses, and for entertaining my curiosity! Again, I don't know what surgery is like beyond shadowing and am in no way saying that this is what I want to pursue and is it possible!

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[django7]

a boarded vascular can do vascular trauma no problem. a vascular surgeon being the primary for a trauma patient is odd, which is what you might be getting at

or a vascular guy handling ESRD patients in MICU. even more strange. more often than not a vascular guy will stick to vascular surgery (bypass, aortas, fistulas, CEA etc)

im interested to meet a double boarded vascular critical care doc

 

[ARAV_Rocky]

Thanks for the response!

 

[ACSurgeon]

Hi all,

I want to preface this post by clarifying that I'm asking this question purely out of curiosity, and not some mad dash to figure out what specialty I want to pursue after medical school. I don't know what I want to pursue, I'm definitely keeping an open mind and waiting until rotations, I'm just curious about a particular career path!

I work under some intensivists now and hearing about their paths to their respective specialties led me on a google search trail to the ABS Critical Care website. I noticed that to qualify for board certification in surgical critical care, you can have completed a residency in an integrated vascular surgery program (0+5). Do you know of any vascular surgeons who go on to complete critical care fellowships? Do they serve a niche in the SICU?

Thanks for the responses, and for entertaining my curiosity! Again, I don't know what surgery is like beyond shadowing and am in no way saying that this is what I want to pursue and is it possible!

One of the SESAP audio guests is a woman (I think out of St Louis) who is vascular and critical care certified. She does one week a month in the SICU and the rest of her time is spent doing vascular.

I'm not sure if doing the integrated 5 year track (as opposed to having done 5 years of general surgery) makes you less capable of running a SICU. My guess is you'd be just fine.

And for the record: SICU does not equal trauma ICU. Depending on institution, you could be managing CT surgery, transplant surgery, vascular surgery and other trauma/general surgery/ortho/ENT patients. So, if you're committed to being a good intensivest, you don't have to be a trauma surgeon.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Also, there is a high chance you won't want to do CC after 3-4 years of vascular surgery training. 80% of doctors end up in private practice. As someone completing vascular sugary training, you'll likely going to try to give yourself the best advantage for a good private practice job (which means some advanced surgical training).

 

[ARAV_Rocky]

Thanks for the thorough response and perspective!

 

[mimelim]

One of the SESAP audio guests is a woman (I think out of St Louis) who is vascular and critical care certified. She does one week a month in the SICU and the rest of her time is spent doing vascular.

I'm not sure if doing the integrated 5 year track (as opposed to having done 5 years of general surgery) makes you less capable of running a SICU. My guess is you'd be just fine.

And for the record: SICU does not equal trauma ICU. Depending on institution, you could be managing CT surgery, transplant surgery, vascular surgery and other trauma/general surgery/ortho/ENT patients. So, if you're committed to being a good intensivest, you don't have to be a trauma surgeon.

That was most likely Catherine Wittgen that you are thinking of. http://physicians.slucare.edu/Default/Details/629?index=1&orgunits=85

We have one resident who is planning on doing a CC fellowship during their 'professional development' year. Not sure if they will actually do it, but they have the blessing of the program to do it.

 

[Tradewinds]

That was most likely Catherine Wittgen that you are thinking of. Catherine Wittgen, MD - SLUCare - The Physicians of Saint Louis University

We have one resident who is planning on doing a CC fellowship during their 'professional development' year. Not sure if they will actually do it, but they have the blessing of the program to do it.

Wondering if the doc you mentioned ever ended up doing the cc fellowship? If so, did they find a position where they formally cover SICU for a set amount of weeks and otherwise just do vascular?

 

[Jolie South]

I have an attending that does vascular and critical care. He operates less than the other guys but it is doable.

 

[mimelim]

Wondering if the doc you mentioned ever ended up doing the cc fellowship? If so, did they find a position where they formally cover SICU for a set amount of weeks and otherwise just do vascular?

The didn't end up doing it.

 

[kemper6036]

Shock trauma has a couple of gs/vascular/scc triple boarded folks, megan brenner and joe dubose.

Definitely not the norm and may not have a lot of application outside of the super specialized centers

 

[Med0123]

I know a PGY-5 resident in integrated vascular surgery in my institution who will be doing 2 years fellowship of critical care medicine.

 

[droliver]

Unless people end up doing a BS “ critical care fellowship” year while they’re in the lab during residency, i dont see that being common with vascular surgeons, and will certainly be even less true with the new integrated vascular cohort who will do much less trauma and critical care then their predecessors. Vascular surgery (as integrated plastics has done and integrated CT will do) has branched into a pretty distant relative of surgery at this point in terms of global patent care. If you were someone really into critical care, you probably wouldnt come at through the vascular side these days.

 

[deleted547339]

I know a PGY-5 resident in integrated vascular surgery in my institution who will be doing 2 years fellowship of critical care medicine.

Critical care following a surgical residency is only a 1 year fellowship. Do you mean a SCC fellowship followed by a 1 year trauma fellowship?

 

[TypeADissection]

Unless people end up doing a BS “ critical care fellowship” year while they’re in the lab during residency, i dont see that being common with vascular surgeons, and will certainly be even less true with the new integrated vascular cohort who will do much less trauma and critical care then their predecessors. Vascular surgery (as integrated plastics has done and integrated CT will do) has branched into a pretty distant relative of surgery at this point in terms of global patent care. If you were someone really into critical care, you probably wouldnt come at through the vascular side these days.

I agree with this completely. The number of trainees that would actually want to do CC after their vascular training is going to be a very low number. Having gone through a traditional GS program, where we have a lot of CC; this isn't something that I find personally interesting. I am thankful for my experience though.

 

[Jolie South]

I agree with this completely. The number of trainees that would actually want to do CC after their vascular training is going to be a very low number. Having gone through a traditional GS program, where we have a lot of CC; this isn't something that I find personally interesting. I am thankful for my experience though.

I am thankful also. I can easily tell when someone is taking **** care of my patients or take over when a crap ICU NP gets assigned my patient.