Visualized: LizzyM of Matriculating Students from Each State

[rasputinc]

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Just threw this together while practicing some data stuff. Thought it was an interesting representation of where the 'hard' states to get in are in comparison to each other. Essentially I took the 2018 AAMC matriculating student data state stats and calculated an average LizzyM of matriculating students from each state. I then normalized that LizzyM and made a sort of colormap. The stronger the color, the higher the average LizzyM. Surprisingly, states like California weren't at the top of the list while Utah was.

States with the Highest and Lowest Medical School Matriculate...

 

[Lawpy]

Curious to compare that with this one here: SDN Success Rate Charts - 2017 Edition

 

[labscience]

been a great year for Boston sports teams and now we're winning med school too

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

been a great year for Boston sports teams and now we're winning med school too

If you consider the Bronze winning.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Surprisingly, states like California weren't at the top of the list while Utah was.

I’m not surprised that Mass and CT were at the top given the two schools in those states, but I’m surprised CA isn’t in the top 5 at all.

 

[LizzyM]

I’m not surprised that Mass and CT were at the top given the two schools in those states, but I’m surprised CA isn’t in the top 5 at all.

This is for residents of that state, correct? Not state in which one's undergraduate institution is located?

It would be interesting to see a map of mean household income and how it compares to LizzyM score.

 

[gyngyn]

I’m not surprised that Mass and CT were at the top given the two schools in those states, but I’m surprised CA isn’t in the top 5 at all.

Just do MCAT scores. See the difference.

 

[yobo9345]

Man, Utah is such an unexpectedly competitive state to be from when it comes to med school admissions. All the other top 5 states are tiny hypereducated new england-y places, not that surprising.

 

[LizzyM]

Man, Utah is such an unexpectedly competitive state to be from when it comes to med school admissions. All the other top 5 states are tiny hypereducated new england-y places, not that surprising. Glad I moved away as a young person.

Re Utah: I'd wager it has more men applying than women. Men have, on average, higher MCAT scores than women. It has an overwhelmingly white population. Whites have higher MCAT on average, compared with URM. It may also be that weaker applicants from Utah choose not to apply thus shifting the pool to the right.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This is for residents of that state, correct? Not state in which one's undergraduate institution is located?

It would be interesting to see a map of mean household income and how it compares to LizzyM score.

I meant more which state the med school is in. I only had a minute to glance at it, so I assumed that it was the mean lizzym of each state based on the students that matriculated in that state.

Just do MCAT scores. See the difference.

Yeah only had time to glance at the map.

 

[rasputinc]

Just do MCAT scores. See the difference.

MCAT scores and GPAS are included in the linked post that contains all the data for the plot. MCAT average for California was 513.4 which was the third highest nationally behind CT with 513.8. So yea, good point! California's lower GPA average definitely dragging it down

 

[gyngyn]

MCAT average for California was 513.4 which was the second highest nationally behind CT with 513.8. So yea, good point! California's lower GPA average definitely dragging it down

Conversely, some might say that it is evidence of the strength of our comitment to service. We could fill every seat with numbers that would blow any state off their tires, but choose not to do so. It's not dragging us down, it's lifting us up.

 

[rasputinc]

Conversely, some might say that it is evidence of the strength of our comitment to service. We could fill every seat with numbers that would blow any state off their tires, but choose not to do so.

To clarify the chart is of the average stats of residents from that state who matriculate anywhere, in-state or out of state. So while the UC schools commitment to service probably has some impact on the in-state matriculates, the large number of out of state California resident GPAs probably has a significant impact as well. This is not a chart of the average LizzyM of the matriculates of the schools in states

 

[gyngyn]

To clarify the chart is of the average stats of residents from that state who matriculate anywhere, in-state or out of state. So while the UC schools commitment to service probably has some impact on the in-state matriculates, the large number of out of state California resident GPAs probably has a significant impact as well

Yes, most CA applicants actually matriculate OOS. Yet, as we look at the matriculation stats at almost all the CA schools, one can deduce that, given the desire to do so, we could dramatically increase our stats if we were willing to give up on our service mission.

 

[efle]

Yeah CA will never be high on LizzyM or even MCAT metrics, because so many of the CA schools prioritize elements from the rest of the application over numbers. Probably the only heatmap that would put California near the top would be percent of residents who leave the state for med school (after excluding states with no schools and a 100% export rate, that is)

 

[LukaDoncicLuk]

Just out of curiosity, where do you think UC Davis's median MCAT would end up if it was more concerned with stats? I think if CA schools were number focused you would see median MCATs in the low-to mid 520s (with the exception of UCR/D).

 

[efle]

Just out of curiosity, where do you think UC Davis's median MCAT would end up if it was more concerned with stats? I think if CA schools were number focused you would see median MCATs in the low-to mid 520s (with the exception of UCR/D).

I mean, IIRC the brand new for-profit "medical school" was able to hit a 34 MCAT (~515-516 equivalent) median in its first cohort despite offering no federal loans and opening its application in the Spring less than six months before classes started.

I could see Davis hitting 520 just fine if they opened up consideration to the rest of CA + the country and started prioritizing things like WashU/NYU/etc do

 

[LukaDoncicLuk]

I mean, IIRC the brand new for-profit "medical school" was able to hit a 34 MCAT (~515-516 equivalent) median in its first cohort despite offering no federal loans and opening its application in the Spring less than six months before classes started.

I could see Davis hitting 520 just fine if they opened up consideration to the rest of CA + the country and started prioritizing things like WashU/NYU/etc do

Kaiser's MCAT median will no doubt be the in the stratosphere with their location and tuition waver. Are we over/under 518? I'm taking the over.

 

[gyngyn]

Kaiser's MCAT median will no doubt be the in the stratosphere with their location and tuition waver. Are we over/under 518? I'm taking the over.

Depending on the degree to which they stick to their goals, I would pick under.
They are hoping for primary care docs to serve in their hospitals.

 

[efle]

Kaiser's MCAT median will no doubt be the in the stratosphere with their location and tuition waver. Are we over/under 518? I'm taking the over.

Are they officially listing any restrictions/preferences? E.g. primary care preference, expecting people to stay in Kaiser system for residency, etc? If they aren't, and it's just a new private CA med school that will take all comers, then yeah I think high teens is reasonable within the first few years

Edit: see above, looks like they will be joining other CA schools in prioritizing other things instead

 

[gyngyn]

Are they officially listing any restrictions/preferences? E.g. primary care preference, expecting people to stay in Kaiser system for residency, etc? If they aren't, and it's just a new private CA med school that will take all comers, then yeah I think high teens is reasonable within the first few years

Even if they are not posting their preference, it would make little sense for them to open a medical school that fuels the subspecialist ranks at other residencies.

 

[efle]

Even if they are not posting their preference, it would make little sense for them to open a medical school that fuels the subspecialist ranks at other residencies.

So you think there won't be anything as formal as the NYU pre-matching system, but that Kaiser med students will be strongly encouraged to stay in-house for primary residencies? Makes sense

 

[Naruhodo]

Re Utah: I'd wager it has more men applying than women. Men have, on average, higher MCAT scores than women. It has an overwhelmingly white population. Whites have higher MCAT on average, compared with URM. It may also be that weaker applicants from Utah choose not to apply thus shifting the pool to the right.

This may be true, as they certainly have more men matriculating (I recall 70% at one point). A few years back I was part of a group of women in the Wasatch valley (mostly nontraditional, URM) who together prepared for the MCAT and provided friendship and support through the med school application process. Most had school/work ties to the University of Utah, and some women, due to young kids, spouses' jobs, etc. only applied to the U. As far as I know just one woman in our group was offered an interview at the U, and ultimately was not accepted (she matriculated at a DO school in Southern Utah). The rest either got zero interest and/or matriculated OOS.

Given the demographics of the University of Utah medical school (overwhelmingly white may be an understatement, as they routinely have 3-4 year gaps between matriculating any black students, and have just a handful of brown students) it struck me as crazy that they didn't give more of these amazing women of color a shot. Maybe they had these kinds of statistics in mind (though personally I think we did pretty well as a group on the MCAT at least). Who knows? Thanks for listening 🙂

 

[LizzyM]

This may be true, as they certainly have more men matriculating (I recall 70% at one point). A few years back I was part of a group of women in the Wasatch valley (mostly nontraditional, URM) who together prepared for the MCAT and provided friendship and support through the med school application process. Most had school/work ties to the University of Utah, and some women, due to young kids, spouses' jobs, etc. only applied to the U. As far as I know just one woman in our group was offered an interview at the U, and ultimately was not accepted (she matriculated at a DO school in Southern Utah). The rest either got zero interest and/or matriculated OOS.

Given the demographics of the University of Utah medical school (overwhelmingly white may be an understatement, as they routinely have 3-4 year gaps between matriculating any black students, and have just a handful of brown students) it struck me as crazy that they didn't give more of these amazing women of color a shot. Maybe they had these kinds of statistics in mind (though personally I think we did pretty well as a group on the MCAT at least). Who knows? Thanks for listening 🙂

Again, this is not a chart by school (in which case Maine would be uncolored) but by matriculants' state of residence. Nonetheless, if women in Utah are being passed over by their state school and have few other options due to family obligations, then that could be skewing data for Utah in a big way.

 

[imtyrone]

Has to be wrong. How is Cali not in the top 5...

 

[M&L]

looked at statistics for Virginia - ive never been so happy about being average 🙂))))