Vote for President

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Vote for President

  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 150 52.1%

  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 138 47.9%
  • Total voters
    288
Status
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GravelRider said:
No one wants to live in a socialist commune or have the government run everything. That is not what people were angry about in this election. What people want is equal voice and equal representation in our government. The way our system works now, the only ones who have a voice are those that can pay for that voice. It feels like the government exists solely to make the rich even richer at the expense of the middle and working class in this country. The system does feel rigged. That is what people are angry about. People supported Bernie Sanders because he promised to fight corporate interests and Wall Street, not because he wanted to run everyone's life.
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I agree with you the system is rigged. Those with the money will have the power. Such is the way it has always been. I disagree though that a Bernie admin would be any different than any other admin. You're just trading out one set of special interests for another. You really musta liked the taste of that Cool-Aid.

You vilify the imbeciles that bought into the Trump "Make America Great Again" BS but then jump in line behind Bernie's version of the same promise. You just hitched your wagon to a different demagogue.
 
SaltyDog said:
I agree with you the system is rigged. Those with the money will have the power. Such is the way it has always been. I disagree though that a Bernie admin would be any different than any other admin. You're just trading out one set of special interests for another. You really musta liked the taste of that Cool-Aid.

You vilify the imbeciles that bought into the Trump "Make America Great Again" BS but then jump in line behind Bernie's version of the same promise. You just hitched your wagon to a different demagogue.
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It's "Kool"-Aid man! 😉
 
SaltyDog said:
I agree with you the system is rigged. Those with the money will have the power. Such is the way it has always been. I disagree though that a Bernie admin would be any different than any other admin. You're just trading out one set of special interests for another. You really musta liked the taste of that Cool-Aid.

You vilify the imbeciles that bought into the Trump "Make America Great Again" BS but then jump in line behind Bernie's version of the same promise. You just hitched your wagon to a different demagogue.
Click to expand...

Tell me again what are Sanders' special interests? He's 75 years old and has an est. net worth of $800k. Compare that to every other senator's net worth before you starting talking about who's indebted to whom.
 
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SaltyDog said:
I agree with you the system is rigged. Those with the money will have the power. Such is the way it has always been. I disagree though that a Bernie admin would be any different than any other admin. You're just trading out one set of special interests for another. You really musta liked the taste of that Cool-Aid.

You vilify the imbeciles that bought into the Trump "Make America Great Again" BS but then jump in line behind Bernie's version of the same promise. You just hitched your wagon to a different demagogue.
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I don't particularly care for Kool-aid. It's too sweet.

I agree that much of what Bernie proposed would have been difficult, if not impossible, to enact. I get that and that is a big reason I originally thought he was not a great candidate. We will also never know what a Bernie Sander's administration would look like, so it is pointless to even speculate. I think the point of this election was that people are sick and tired of big money influencing politics and while they may have voiced that during this election they are unlikely to see that change anytime soon.

I will also throw in a touch of conspiracy theory. In the end, the true "elite" and billionaires benefit greatly from a divided electorate. By exaggerating divisions along racial, gender, and religious lines, it prevents the working and middle class from uniting and choosing a candidate who truly has their best interests at heart. I don't really believe there is a conscious effort to do that, but I think it highlights the fact that the country really isn't as divided as the media makes us want to believe. People want the government to work for them and not just the corporations.
 
SaltyDog said:
I agree with you the system is rigged. Those with the money will have the power. Such is the way it has always been. I disagree though that a Bernie admin would be any different than any other admin. You're just trading out one set of special interests for another. You really musta liked the taste of that Cool-Aid.

You vilify the imbeciles that bought into the Trump "Make America Great Again" BS but then jump in line behind Bernie's version of the same promise. You just hitched your wagon to a different demagogue.
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You are a REALLY bad judge of character if you equate Bernie Sanders' almost militant idealism with Trump's vacuous non-plans and race-baiting. To call them one in the same is beyond ridiculous.
 
I try to keep politics off Facebook, because really, what's the upside.

But I've got this vocal Trump supporter friend who puts up almost daily memes about how millennials are "entitled", "self-important", "crybabies" who don't know how to "take responsibility" when things don't go their way.

I'm not going to say anything. But could there BE any better example of unwitting irony?!
 
Pooh & Annie said:
I try to keep politics off Facebook, because really, what's the upside.

But I've got this vocal Trump supporter friend who puts up almost daily memes about how millennials are "entitled", "self-important", "crybabies" who don't know how to "take responsibility" when things don't go their way.

I'm not going to say anything. But could there BE any better example of unwitting irony?!
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Like Micheal Moore stated, a lot of people used the voting box as a big "F-U" to the establishment. Probably not the best place to express anger.

I think I am ready now to move forward and watch realty set in for a lot of people who abandoned rationale reasoning for a clown.
 
RadOncDoc21 said:
Like Micheal Moore stated, a lot of people used the voting box as a big "F-U" to the establishment. Probably not the best place to express anger.

I think I am ready now to move forward and watch realty set in for a lot of people who abandoned rationale reasoning for a clown.
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What I've been thinking about is what happens when the reality of the situation sets in for Trump. He's lived a luxurious easy life because of his dad's money and power, and he hasn't faced much difficulty, as far as I can tell.

During the primaries and election he responded very poorly to adversity by lashing out, and he lost his **** over petty stuff. He's about to face the most intense pressures he's ever faced, and he isn't a grown up. The protests I thought were a good place to start, and he immediately whined about it not being fair and said they were being paid off.

We'll see how this plays out. There's nothing in his history to indicate he's prepared.
 
Onefellswoop87 said:
In order to "Drain the Swamp" and be anti-establishment, Trump names RNC chair Reince Priebus as chief of staff.

First back pedaling on ACA, then saying on some parts of wall will be a fence, now this. So glad people elected him cause he tells it like it is.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsn...-mexican-border-fence-segments/?client=safari

https://apple.news/AtLJhnNK3R6GB1G5Mkca3Hg
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Making this country great again, one lie at a time!

If only we had a clue what type of person he is, he seemed like descent person without any hint of having a character flaw.
 
RadOncDoc21 said:
Like Micheal Moore stated, a lot of people used the voting box as a big "F-U" to the establishment. Probably not the best place to express anger.

I think I am ready now to move forward and watch realty set in for a lot of people who abandoned rationale reasoning for a clown.
Click to expand...


The question is who is the "establishment"? The entire "drain the swamp" meme is a joke. Trump is surrounding himself with insiders and former lobbyists. He chose Prebus as his COS.
 
PainDrain said:
The question is who is the "establishment"? The entire "drain the swamp" meme is a joke. Trump is surrounding himself with insiders and former lobbyists. He chose Prebus as his COS.
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The establishment is all of you "elitists."

Don't you know that Trump represents the midwestern working class, despite being a billionaire from NYC.
 
vector2 said:
Tell me again what are Sanders' special interests? He's 75 years old and has an est. net worth of $800k. Compare that to every other senator's net worth before you starting talking about who's indebted to whom.
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So now being lousy at managing your money makes one a solid presidential candidate?? I kid, I kid. I think we've established Trump is no better in that regard.

I do find it odd though that someone who preaches about how evil the big banks are still carries a significant credit card balance. :thinking:
 
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SaltyDog said:
So now being lousy at managing your money makes one a solid presidential candidate?? I kid, I kid. I think we've established Trump is no better in that regard.

I do find it odd though that someone who preaches about how evil the big banks are still carries a significant credit card balance. :thinking:
Click to expand...
Maybe he does not get kick backs and bribes?
 
Onefellswoop87 said:
In order to "Drain the Swamp" and be anti-establishment, Trump names RNC chair Reince Priebus as chief of staff.

First back pedaling on ACA, then saying on some parts of wall will be a fence, now this. So glad people elected him cause he tells it like it is.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsn...-mexican-border-fence-segments/?client=safari

https://apple.news/AtLJhnNK3R6GB1G5Mkca3Hg
Click to expand...

You guys are funny. 60 pages worth of bashing the guy for his campaign rhetoric, and now he gets elected and guess what - he tones everything down. I would think you guys would be happy about that but no, you rag on him for that too. I don't get it. You can't have it both ways. The irony and hypocrisy runs deep in this thread. What's even better is that you guys are convinced the Left (yes even Bernie) wouldn't have done the exact same thing had they been elected.

Newsflash: no politician has ever followed through on their campaign promises - ever.
 
Pooh & Annie said:
You are a REALLY bad judge of character if you equate Bernie Sanders' almost militant idealism with Trump's vacuous non-plans and race-baiting. To call them one in the same is beyond ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Easy there Pooh Bear. I lump all politicians together into the same basket of deplorables (see what I did there).
 
SaltyDog said:
You guys are funny. 60 pages worth of bashing the guy for his campaign rhetoric, and now he gets elected and guess what - he tones everything down. I would think you guys would be happy about that but no, you rag on him for that too. I don't get it. You can't have it both ways. The irony and hypocrisy runs deep in this thread. What's even better is that you guys are convinced the Left (yes even Bernie) wouldn't have done the exact same thing had they been elected.

Newsflash: no politician has ever followed through on their campaign promises - ever.
Click to expand...
So if we agree that Trump's promises where just propaganda to win the elections, what else are his supporters left with?
I mean beside orange hair and a series of financial disasters as his qualifications?
 
I think this thread is a great microcosm for what's wrong with American politics. The left hates the right, the right hates the left. Nobody is actually concerned with running the country, they just wanna stick it to the other guy. Doesn't matter what the other guy says, it's wrong just cuz the other guy said it.
 
SaltyDog said:
You guys are funny. 60 pages worth of bashing the guy for his campaign rhetoric, and now he gets elected and guess what - he tones everything down. I would think you guys would be happy about that but no, you rag on him for that too. I don't get it. You can't have it both ways. The irony and hypocrisy runs deep in this thread. What's even better is that you guys are convinced the Left (yes even Bernie) wouldn't have done the exact same thing had they been elected.

Newsflash: no politician has ever followed through on their campaign promises - ever.
Click to expand...

Your right, about your last part. No politician follows through 100%. But most don't back track on the core of the campaign that got them elected less than a week after actually being elected.

You say his backtracking his stance on ACA and the wall and appointing a member of the establishment to his CoS is toning down. I think it sounds like caving to the establishment he claimed to fight against.

I don't think I've ever mentioned Bernie. I've always wanted some honesty from Trump, especially. Is that he's my soon to be inaugurated POTUS and Commander in Chief. If he's elected for telling it like it is, then he should tell it like it is, and keep faith to what he told.
 
Planktonmd said:
So if we agree that Trump's promises where just propaganda to win the elections, what else are his supporters left with?
I mean beside orange hair and a series of financial disasters as his qualifications?
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Same thing Hillary or Bernie supporters woulda been left with. A big steamy heaping pile of dog ****. That's why I find it so amusing that people get so worked up over this garbage.
 
SaltyDog said:
Same thing Hillary or Bernie supporters woulda been left with. A big steamy heaping pile of dog ****. That's why I find it so amusing that people get so worked up over this garbage.
Click to expand...

You left out the racism, sexism and hate one candidate was fully covered in.
 
SaltyDog said:
Same thing Hillary or Bernie supporters woulda been left with. A big steamy heaping pile of dog ****. That's why I find it so amusing that people get so worked up over this garbage.
Click to expand...
But his whole campaign was based on him not being a politician and not playing the same game, isn't it disappointing to those who believed him if he turns out to be just another politician playing the same old game, only with zero experience?
 
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SaltyDog said:
Easy there Pooh Bear. I lump all politicians together into the same basket of deplorables (see what I did there).
Click to expand...

So by that logic, every single politician is a deplorable (probably not far from the truth). So then what is it about politics that corrupts people? Or do only corrupt people enter politics? Is our system flawed or is it that democracy is flawed?

SaltyDog said:
So now being lousy at managing your money makes one a solid presidential candidate?? I kid, I kid. I think we've established Trump is no better in that regard.

I do find it odd though that someone who preaches about how evil the big banks are still carries a significant credit card balance. :thinking:
Click to expand...

I don't think Bernie Sanders said big banks are evil. He has talked about banks being "too big to fail means they are too big to exist."

The point people are making about Bernie Sanders is that his campaign was actually very similar to Trump's campaign...minus the scapegoating of minorities. For example, Bernie has called for reversing the NAFTA trade policies...much like Donald Trump. The success of both of their campaigns is really indicative of what is going on in the American populace. The middle class is shrinking, wages have stagnated, and the majority of Americans are lucky to live paycheck to paycheck. All this while seeing news of corporations setting up offices overseas to avoid taxes and dysfunction in Washington. The system feels rigged.

Bernie Sanders is by no means a perfect candidate, and I disagree with him on many issues. However, when I look at his history as an activist and someone who has continually fought for the people with the smallest voices in our society, I take that as a pretty good way to judge his character. When I compare it to Donald Trump's character (we do not need to repeat his failings in that regard), it is not even a close contest.
 
GravelRider said:
So by that logic, every single politician is a deplorable (probably not far from the truth). So then what is it about politics that corrupts people? Or do only corrupt people enter politics? Is our system flawed or is it that democracy is flawed?



I don't think Bernie Sanders said big banks are evil. He has talked about banks being "too big to fail means they are too big to exist."

The point people are making about Bernie Sanders is that his campaign was actually very similar to Trump's campaign...minus the scapegoating of minorities. For example, Bernie has called for reversing the NAFTA trade policies...much like Donald Trump. The success of both of their campaigns is really indicative of what is going on in the American populace. The middle class is shrinking, wages have stagnated, and the majority of Americans are lucky to live paycheck to paycheck. All this while seeing news of corporations setting up offices overseas to avoid taxes and dysfunction in Washington. The system feels rigged.

Bernie Sanders is by no means a perfect candidate, and I disagree with him on many issues. However, when I look at his history as an activist and someone who has continually fought for the people with the smallest voices in our society, I take that as a pretty good way to judge his character. When I compare it to Donald Trump's character (we do not need to repeat his failings in that regard), it is not even a close contest.
Click to expand...

Yeah then he went on to endorse Hillary Clinton who was fully owned by the banks after either getting paid off and/or threatened.

It's worse when Wikileaks definitely proved that the DNC process was rigged against him whereby Debbie Wasserman Schultz had to step down.

Great work on the part of Bernie fighting the system.
 
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DrCommonSense said:
Yeah then he went on to endorse Hillary Clinton who was fully owned by the banks after either getting paid off and/or threatened.

It's worse when Wikileaks definitely proved that the DNC process was rigged against him whereby Debbie Wasserman Schultz had to step down.

Great work on the part of Bernie fighting the system.
Click to expand...

Wikileaks is beyond the scope of this thread. It has had a clear agenda for years and I have never really regarded it as a reliable source, but that is all I will say about Wikileaks.

At some point idealism has to intersect with realism in politics. Had there been a less frightening opponent from the Republican party then you can judge Bernie's endorsement of Hillary Clinton. However, I think that like many of us, Bernie saw her as a much lesser of two evils.
 
GravelRider said:
Wikileaks is beyond the scope of this thread. It has had a clear agenda for years and I have never really regarded it as a reliable source, but that is all I will say about Wikileaks.

At some point idealism has to intersect with realism in politics. Had there been a less frightening opponent from the Republican party then you can judge Bernie's endorsement of Hillary Clinton. However, I think that like many of us, Bernie saw her as a much lesser of two evils.
Click to expand...

Except no one challenged the information in the Wikileaks and Debbie Wasserman actually stepped down after ADMITTING to its contents.

Actually, Bernie just sold out. If he was a true liberal that he claimed, he would definitely tell people to vote third party since hillary is a war mongering psychopath that is owned by the Wall Street Elite. Yet Bernie still supported that huh? Reminds me of this Elizabeth Warren as well.


At least Jill Stein had integrity though.
 

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DrCommonSense said:
Yeah the racism and sexism against White heterosexual males that Hillary seems to exude consistently?
Click to expand...

DrCommonSense said:
Nah, its more like "black power" with BLM and "Mexican Power" with "La Raza" that means the race in spanish.
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Uhhh ... what?

I thought we covered this - if you can't tell the difference, we can't help you.
 
Planktonmd said:
So if we agree that Trump's promises where just propaganda to win the elections, what else are his supporters left with?
Click to expand...
They're left with "not Hillary" and "not Hillary's SCOTUS appointees" ... to them, the glass isn't half empty, it's 1/9th full. Maybe 2/9ths or even 3/9ths.


Bernie Sanders was one of two decent people running for office (Gary Johnson being the other). I don't blame him one bit for endorsing Clinton over Trump, despite the big differences he had with Clinton. Jill Stein is just moonbat crazy.
 
DrCommonSense said:
Except no one challenged the information in the Wikileaks and Debbie Wasserman actually stepped down after ADMITTING to its contents.

Actually, Bernie just sold out. If he was a true liberal that he claimed, he would definitely tell people to vote third party since hillary is a war mongering psychopath that is owned by the Wall Street Elite. Yet Bernie still supported that huh? Reminds me of this Elizabeth Warren as well.


At least Jill Stein had integrity though.
Click to expand...

So does that discredit all of the Republicans who disavowed then re-avowed then disavowed then re-avowed Trump? Come on.

At the end of the day this is politics...even Bernie knows that. Sometimes you have to make compromises to get what you want. This notion that compromise is unacceptable is what has led to such dysfunction in our government for so long.
 
ProfMD said:
Uhhh ... what?

I thought we covered this - if you can't tell the difference, we can't help you.
Click to expand...

You haven't covered the difference anywhere with actual reasons that are logical. Please enlighten us as to your reasoning using cogent arguments.
 
GravelRider said:
So does that discredit all of the Republicans who disavowed then re-avowed then disavowed then re-avowed Trump? Come on.

At the end of the day this is politics...even Bernie knows that. Sometimes you have to make compromises to get what you want. This notion that compromise is unacceptable is what has led to such dysfunction in our government for so long.
Click to expand...

Except Hillary literally stands for EVERYTHING that bernie ran against including:

1) Support for WallStreet/Big Banks
2) Ending of Wars overseas
3) Ending of corporate handouts

The only thing I can think of that Hillary and Bernie had in common was avoiding the building of a wall.
 
pgg said:
They're left with "not Hillary" and "not Hillary's SCOTUS appointees" ... to them, the glass isn't half empty, it's 1/9th full. Maybe 2/9ths or even 3/9ths.l.
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This. Quite literally every Republican I know that voted Trump (n probably only a few dozen) voted for those two reasons alone. They hated everything else about him, but held their noses and did it anyway to get conservative justices, and keep Hillary out of the Whitehouse. This is more reason why the two-party system needs to die.
 
DrCommonSense said:
Except Hillary literally stands for EVERYTHING that bernie ran against including:

1) Support for WallStreet/Big Banks
2) Ending of Wars overseas
3) Ending of corporate handouts

The only thing I can think of that Hillary and Bernie had in common was avoiding the building of a wall.
Click to expand...

Bernie stands for a lot more than those 3 things. Check out his website. He is a senator who has worked with Clinton for years. He knows what he's getting with her.
 
psychbender said:
This. Quite literally every Republican I know that voted Trump (n probably only a few dozen) voted for those two reasons alone. They hated everything else about him, but held their noses and did it anyway to get conservative justices, and keep Hillary out of the Whitehouse. This is more reason why the two-party system needs to die.
Click to expand...

Hillary was funky, but Trump is a rotting zombie.
 
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GravelRider said:
Bernie stands for a lot more than those 3 things. Check out his website. He is a senator who has worked with Clinton for years. He knows what he's getting with her.
Click to expand...

I have. Bernie's stated positions are literally diametrically opposed to EVERYTHING Hillary was proposing outside of preventing a Wall on our Southern Border.

Name three policies that Bernie and Hillary were seeing "eye to eye" on that differed from Trump? In fact, Bernie's stated positions on most economic policies were more similar to Trump than Hillary.
 
DrCommonSense said:
You haven't covered the difference anywhere with actual reasons that are logical. Please enlighten us as to your reasoning using cogent arguments.
Click to expand...

You just refuse to accept that for historical reasons racism against whites is not a thing, or at least bit nearly as much a thing as racism against minority groups.

There are certainly bad actors in BLM and La Raza but as groups they seek equality, not supremacy.

Also, La Raza means "our people" - as in people from Mexico - not "the race." In fact, it originally was used to mean a mixing of all people into one race.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=La%20Raza&amp=true
 
ProfMD said:
You just refuse to accept that for historical reasons racism against whites is not a thing, or at least bit nearly as much a thing as racism against minority groups.

There are certainly bad actors in BLM and La Raza but as groups they seek equality, not supremacy.

Also, La Raza means "our people" - as in people from Mexico - not "the race." In fact, it originally was used to mean a mixing of all people into one race.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=La%20Raza&amp=true
Click to expand...

Dude, you're trying to prove that a guy is a racist to a racist. It's like crossing the ghostbuster pack beams.
 
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