Vote for President

[Pooh & Annie]

Yeah, that would be not OK.

Can't imagine it surviving a court challenge for even a day though. That's one step away from making them wear a crescent patch on their clothing, Nazi Germany style.

You should have your OWN concerns anyway. We just elected a childish reactionary who was not long ago a vocal advocate of expansive gun control. What do you think he'll be saying after he meets with the third or fourth family/community that's a victim of spree gun violence?

---

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[ZzzPlz]

Haha people are still voting on this thread

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Haha people are still voting on this thread

The election is rigged!

 

[DrCommonSense]

Sweet meme, bro! You get that off the twitterverse?

Nah brah, got it straight from national review that had direct quotes.

The link is above.

 

[GravelRider]

Nah brah, got it straight from national review that had direct quotes.

The link is above.

No way, bro!!! It was so clever and insightful, I thought you may have made it yourself!

 

[DrCommonSense]

No way, bro!!! It was so clever and insightful, I thought you may have made it yourself!

No problem home slice. Just trying to help you out brah.

Its the least I could do since I realize you are very open minded!

 

[pgg]

You should have your OWN concerns anyway. We just elected a childish reactionary who was not long ago a vocal advocate of expansive gun control. What do you think he'll be saying after he meets with the third or fourth family/community that's a victim of spree gun violence?

On that front he can't possibly be any worse than Clinton or Obama.


If you go back to the first couple pages of this very thread, right after I convince myself that a cretin like Trump couldn't possibly get the Republican nomination, much less win the election, we derailed into a discussion of gun rights and how gun control and confiscation is the Democratic party's ultimate goal. Clinton would've been an absolute disaster for the 2nd Amendment.

If there is one silver lining in this fiasco of an election, it's that gun control is off the table for at least 4 years, and SCOTUS will lean right for much longer than that. I just hope he appoints conservative interpreters of the Constitution, not evangelicals with moral agendas. In that vein, I think Trump is a lot more likely to abandon pro-lifers than gun owners. He ain't the church-going sort.

 

[deleted682700]

Being one of the minions of TPTB I have inquired of my contacts in the Mossad cyber investigative division. They have identified you and your location. The local chapter of TPTB has been informed of your seeing through our deception.

View attachment 210967 View attachment 210967

Is that the best 2 sentences you can come up with. Very good. Dont worry the NSA can data mine everything that you do. You can choose your beliefs.

You are not in that elite group. If you were you would not be wasting your time on this board

 

[deleted682700]

Maybe you just need to get laid.

Is that going to make you more intelligent

 

[GravelRider]

Is that going to make you more intelligent

Depends...

 

[GravelRider]

On that front he can't possibly be any worse than Clinton or Obama.


If you go back to the first couple pages of this very thread, right after I convince myself that a cretin like Trump couldn't possibly get the Republican nomination, much less win the election, we derailed into a discussion of gun rights and how gun control and confiscation is the Democratic party's ultimate goal. Clinton would've been an absolute disaster for the 2nd Amendment.

If there is one silver lining in this fiasco of an election, it's that gun control is off the table for at least 4 years, and SCOTUS will lean right for much longer than that. I just hope he appoints conservative interpreters of the Constitution, not evangelicals with moral agendas. In that vein, I think Trump is a lot more likely to abandon pro-lifers than gun owners. He ain't the church-going sort.

I think the gun industry is going to miss Obama. Gun sales have never been higher. Everytime there is a school shooting, there is a spike in gun sales. The Obama administration has been good for business.

I also don't think the second amendment would ever be in danger by the Supreme Court, despite what Republicans say. It would be very difficult to have 5 justices overturn a Bill of Rights amendment no matter how liberal they are. Gun control has always been a fight for the legislature, not the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court is more about protecting a woman's ability to get an abortion and marriage equality.

I'm more concerned about Trump's rhetoric against the press who cover him and write unflattering stories. The freedom of the press is one of our most important freedoms because it is the means by which we hold those in power accountable. Journalism in America is in a sad state right now because click bait is taken as truth...including by our president-elect.

 

[gotname]

Isn't that what a Visa is?

A visa is for a non-citizen. I think the concern is that the registry being proposed would be for immigrant Muslim citizens. That is a big difference. I haven't read too much about the plan, though, so I could be wrong.

Yeah, that would be not OK.

Can't imagine it surviving a court challenge for even a day though. That's one step away from making them wear a crescent patch on their clothing, Nazi Germany style.

For some reason, I thought you were being sarcastic (initial comment) pgg. The level of absurd to absolutely bat$#!+ crazy that has come from all this is significant and as the expectation of sensibleness slips, logic may sometimes appear a bit out of place.

In the words of our soon to be leader... SAD!

I agree, GravelRider. And, I think it's difficult to keep up with what exactly may or will be done in regards to this or some other things for that matter. The bright side is that it seems that these plans...ideas, change rather frequently. The down side is that they start of as bloody twisted ideas and at best, would end up as kinda twisted ideas.

 

[GravelRider]

No problem home slice. Just trying to help you out brah.

Its the least I could do since I realize you are very open minded!

Is this you?:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house


https://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-troll-army-hit-america

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-flood-social-media-pro-Putin-propaganda.html

 

[pgg]

I think the gun industry is going to miss Obama.

Well, some of their stock prices are down, and there won't be any post election panic buying.

But speculating what some publicly traded companies "think" about their projected sales is a complete non sequitor. It's utterly irrelevant to any discussion of citizens' civil rights.

I also don't think the second amendment would ever be in danger by the Supreme Court, despite what Republicans say.

You're incorrect.

A few years ago, FOUR Justices voted in the minority in Heller and McDonald.

The Supreme Court is more about protecting a woman's ability to get an abortion and marriage equality.

Marriage equality looks to be a done deal at this point, and Trump supports it. SCOTUS has ruled, a large majority of the country wants it, it's not getting overturned.

Abortion rights might get curtailed on a state-to-state basis with less protection from the Supreme Court. I think that would be wrong. But I also think there's no enumerated right to abortion in the Constitution, so maybe that should be a state issue.

I'm more concerned about Trump's rhetoric against the press who cover him and write unflattering stories. The freedom of the press is one of our most important freedoms because it is the means by which we hold those in power accountable. Journalism in America is in a sad state right now because click bait is taken as truth...including by our president-elect.

I'm not at all concerned about that.

Journalism in the US is in a sad state because of journalists, not the government.

 

[GravelRider]

Well, some of their stock prices are down, and there won't be any post election panic buying.

But speculating what some publicly traded companies "think" about their projected sales is a complete non sequitor. It's utterly irrelevant to any discussion of citizens' civil rights.





You're incorrect.

A few years ago, FOUR Justices voted in the minority in Heller and McDonald.




Marriage equality looks to be a done deal at this point, and Trump supports it. SCOTUS has ruled, a large majority of the country wants it, it's not getting overturned.

Abortion rights might get curtailed on a state-to-state basis with less protection from the Supreme Court. I think that would be wrong. But I also think there's no enumerated right to abortion in the Constitution, so maybe that should be a state issue.



I'm not at all concerned about that.

Journalism in the US is in a sad state because of journalists, not the government.

I don't really disagree with you on anything here...except that abortion should be a state issue. You and I can both think of circumstances (politicians can't) where either abortion or early delivery of a non-viable fetus is essential to saving a mother's life. There should be no gray areas here or potential for misinterpretation that may force a woman to cross state lines for her health (and the way the "red" state map looks, it would be multiple state lines).

 

[pgg]

I don't really disagree with you on anything here...except that abortion should be a state issue. You and I can both think of circumstances (politicians can't) where either abortion or early delivery of a non-viable fetus is essential to saving a mother's life. There should be no gray areas here or potential for misinterpretation that may force a woman to cross state lines for her health (and the way the "red" state map looks, it would be multiple state lines).

I agree with you. I favor abortion rights and broad availability, with all of it being completely up to the individual woman. Viability (~24 weeks) seems like a reasonable line to draw for purely elective abortions.

(If I won a $300 million powerball prize I'd give $100 million to the NRA and $100 million to Planned Parenthood, because both are great organizations and it'd be fun to piss off 80% of the country in one fell swoop.)

I also don't really favor the states rights argument for, well, anything related to individuals' rights. I can't say I've ever seen the "state's rights" argument used to defend something worth defending, to be honest. Most moral progress in this country, from ending slavery to affirming civil rights, came at the end of a federal gun. But the Constitution does leave most powers to the states ... mostly. So my attempt to be reasonable is to concede that maybe the finer points of abortion regulation ought to be a state issue. At least within the framework of legality that R v W affirmed.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

I agree with you. I favor abortion rights and broad availability, with all of it being completely up to the individual woman. Viability (~24 weeks) seems like a reasonable line to draw for purely elective abortions.

(If I won a $300 million powerball prize I'd give $100 million to the NRA and $100 million to Planned Parenthood, because both are great organizations and it'd be fun to piss off 80% of the country in one fell swoop.)

I also don't really favor the states rights argument for, well, anything related to individuals' rights. I can't say I've ever seen the "state's rights" argument used to defend something worth defending, to be honest. Most moral progress in this country, from ending slavery to affirming civil rights, came at the end of a federal gun. But the Constitution does leave most powers to the states ... mostly. So my attempt to be reasonable is to concede that maybe the finer points of abortion regulation ought to be a state issue. At least within the framework of legality that R v W affirmed.

Frequently the smaller the population the more effed up the beliefs on "rights". Something like a quarter of white South Carolinians think ending slavery was a bad idea for all involved. Who knows what laws they'd enact on immigrants and Muslims given the chance.

 

[GravelRider]

Frequently the smaller the population the more effed up the beliefs on "rights". Something like a quarter of white South Carolinians think ending slavery was a bad idea for all involved. Who knows what laws they'd enact on immigrants and Muslims given the chance.

Then support the ACLU.

I don't think the United States is about to turn into 1940s Germany. It would be an economic disaster for them to do that. That kind of nonsense will never fly in Boston, NYC, or San Francisco. If discrimatory laws are enacted in "red states," it will just accelerate young, progressive, educated people moving to the cities. All this will serve to do is continue the "brain drain" of the "red" states and further threaten their economic viability.

 

[deleted171991]

Then support the ACLU.

I don't think the United States is about to turn into 1940s Germany. It would be an economic disaster for them to do that. That kind of nonsense will never fly in Boston, NYC, or San Francisco. If discrimatory laws are enacted in "red states," it will just accelerate young, progressive, educated people moving to the cities. All this will serve to do is continue the "brain drain" of the "red" states and further threaten their economic viability.

That's exactly what the German Jews thought. That's why most of them didn't leave... and died.

Never underestimate the combination of hate, envy, stupidity and mobs. It has given us nazism and communism, among others. These people will do everything they said they would, and more. Just look at their nominees.

 

[pgg]

That's exactly what the German Jews thought. That's why most of them didn't leave... and died.

Never underestimate the combination of hate, envy, stupidity and mobs. It has given us nazism and communism, among others. These people will do everything they said they would, and more. Just look at their nominees.

WWII-era German Jews and Japanese Americans weren't as heavily armed or as generally belligerent as we are. Too many guns in this country.

If that's something you worry about as a minority, and you don't own a gun, ask yourself why not. Guns and the 2nd Amendment aren't for fighting Abrams tanks and Apache helicopters, they're for shooting the thugs who come in the night to beat or haul you away to be re-educated.

Tell Trump and the GOP Congress to pass nationwide CCW reciprocity, something Obama and the Democrats would ever do, get a gun and get a permit.

 

[GravelRider]

That's exactly what the German Jews thought. That's why most of them didn't leave... and died.

Never underestimate the combination of hate, envy, stupidity and mobs. It has given us nazism and communism, among others. These people will do everything they said they would, and more. Just look at their nominees.

I am not discounting the rhetoric coming from those groups now. However, Germany did not have an ACLU or a Southern Poverty Law Center. Germany also didn't have places like Boston, NYC, DC, San Francisco, Minneapolis, Chicago, etc... These are the economic engines of the entire country right now. We are already seeing young, educated, progressive people fleeing the rural "red" states for these cities. If the Republicans want to truly hasten the economic demise of "red" country, they will continue the racist rhetoric. Otherwise, they will need to soften their stance. In fact, I dare some of these people try and spout that racist rhetoric on a NYC subway. They'd better hope they get on a car with an undercover NYPD.

 

[deleted171991]

If that's something you worry about as a minority, and you don't own a gun, ask yourself why not. Guns and the 2nd Amendment aren't for fighting Abrams tanks and Apache helicopters, they're for shooting the thugs who come in the night to beat or haul you away to be re-educated.

You mean the thugs who probably own enough assault weapons to start a World War? Fat chance.

In times like these, everybody is a minority. One never knows when one gets on the thugs' bad side:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
(Martin Niemöller)

"When Pastor Niemöller was put in a concentration camp we wrote the year 1937; when the concentration camp was opened we wrote the year 1933, and the people who were put in the camps then were Communists. Who cared about them? We knew it, it was printed in the newspapers.
Who raised their voice, maybe the Confessing Church? We thought: Communists, those opponents of religion, those enemies of Christians - "should I be my brother's keeper?"
Then they got rid of the sick, the so-called incurables. - I remember a conversation I had with a person who claimed to be a Christian. He said: Perhaps it's right, these incurably sick people just cost the state money, they are just a burden to themselves and to others. Isn't it best for all concerned if they are taken out of the middle [of society]? -- Only then did the church as such take note. Then we started talking, until our voices were again silenced in public. Can we say, we aren't guilty/responsible? The persecution of the Jews, the way we treated the occupied countries, or the things in Greece, in Poland, in Czechoslovakia or in Holland, that were written in the newspapers
I believe, we Confessing-Church-Christians have every reason to say: mea culpa, mea culpa! We can talk ourselves out of it with the excuse that it would have cost me my head if I had spoken out."

 

[GravelRider]

You mean the thugs who probably own enough assault weapons to start a World War? Fat chance.

In times like these, everybody is a minority. One never knows when one gets on the thugs' bad side:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
(Martin Niemöller)

"When Pastor Niemöller was put in a concentration camp we wrote the year 1937; when the concentration camp was opened we wrote the year 1933, and the people who were put in the camps then were Communists. Who cared about them? We knew it, it was printed in the newspapers.
Who raised their voice, maybe the Confessing Church? We thought: Communists, those opponents of religion, those enemies of Christians - "should I be my brother's keeper?"
Then they got rid of the sick, the so-called incurables. - I remember a conversation I had with a person who claimed to be a Christian. He said: Perhaps it's right, these incurably sick people just cost the state money, they are just a burden to themselves and to others. Isn't it best for all concerned if they are taken out of the middle [of society]? -- Only then did the church as such take note. Then we started talking, until our voices were again silenced in public. Can we say, we aren't guilty/responsible? The persecution of the Jews, the way we treated the occupied countries, or the things in Greece, in Poland, in Czechoslovakia or in Holland, that were written in the newspapers
I believe, we Confessing-Church-Christians have every reason to say: mea culpa, mea culpa! We can talk ourselves out of it with the excuse that it would have cost me my head if I had spoken out."

And what happened to Germany immediately after WWII? It was a true disaster area. Meanwhile, people like Albert Einstein fled to the United States. If the Republicans continue along the same path, they will cause complete economic calamity of "red" country. All while the cities continue to grow and flourish.

 

[deleted171991]

I am not discounting the rhetoric coming from those groups now. However, Germany did not have an ACLU or a Southern Poverty Law Center. Germany also didn't have places like Boston, NYC, DC, San Francisco, Minneapolis, Chicago, etc... These are the economic engines of the entire country right now. We are already seeing young, educated, progressive people fleeing the rural "red" states for these cities. If the Republicans want to truly hasten the economic demise of "red" country, they will continue the racist rhetoric. Otherwise, they will need to soften their stance. In fact, I dare some of these people try and spout that racist rhetoric on a NYC subway. They'd better hope they get on a car with an undercover NYPD.

The confirmation hearings of senator Sessions will clear up how bad things are. A lot of democrats up for re-election in 2018 are from Trumpist states. They will not oppose his nominees.

 

[deleted171991]

And what happened to Germany immediately after WWII? It was a true disaster area. Meanwhile, people like Albert Einstein fled to the United States. If the Republicans continue along the same path, they will cause complete economic calamity of "red" country. All while the cities continue to grow and flourish.

They don't care. Neither did the nazis. What they cared about was "purifying" the nation.

The White House is filling up with haters. They don't have a mandate for that. The vast majority of people in this country are not hateful and intolerant, although it seems that the South has had no conscience problems with electing KKK admirers .

 

[GravelRider]

They don't care. Neither did the nazis. What they cared about was "purifying" the nation.

The White House is filling up with haters. They don't have a mandate for that. The vast majority of people in this country are not hateful and intolerant, although it seems that the South has had no conscience problems with electing KKK admirers .

And all it will serve to do is accelerate the economic disparity in the nation. If you think rural America is suffering now, what will it be like in 4 years when every progressive, college-educated person is driven to the urban areas of economic prosperity? Hate and racism is bad for business...so is isolationism politics. My major concerns with a Trump administration are on environmental issues and foreign policy.

 

[pgg]

You mean the thugs who probably own enough assault weapons to start a World War? Fat chance.

In times like these, everybody is a minority. One never knows when one gets on the thugs' bad side:

That's why everyone should be armed, and why the Democrats are so misguided in their efforts to disarm people - especially the minorities who tend to be concentrated in cities and on the E/W coasts where gun control is worst.

(It hasn't always been a Democrat problem. It was Republicans who stripped all Californians of their open carry rights in 1967 when the Black Panthers made them uncomfortable. But it's a Democrat problem now.)

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

If for some unimaginable reason the courts don't stop it before it starts, and a band of thugs from the government comes to round up my Muslim neighbor or give him some kind Nazi-Jew-like flair/emblem to wear around town, I won't speak up, I'll shoot them. Odds are they won't be paying attention to the white guy across the street, and I'll get them all before they know what's happening.

 

[pgg]

I am not discounting the rhetoric coming from those groups now. However, Germany did not have an ACLU or a Southern Poverty Law Center.

Another thing they also didn't have was an abundance of explicit video footage documenting genocide available to remind them of what could happen.

When Hitler started rounding up Jews, Germans didn't have anything comparably horrid to point to. What picture could they have painted? Hey, Ghengis Khan did some pretty heinous ****, executing every Tatar male who stood higher than a wagon wheel axle. What if the Nazis do something like that to us?

Today, we can't even have this conversation without people immediately remembering and pointing out where these kinds of actions led Germany, and that's a good thing. We even have a silly internet custom (Godwin's Law) to invoke whenever someone mentions Hitler, because it happens so often. Concentration camps and ovens for human beings aren't going to sneak up on us. We're not going to wake up on some random Thursday and discover our Muslim neighbors are gone, living in special towns in the New Mexico desert.

Jews got on railroad cars like docile cattle because they didn't have any reason to suspect they were going to be executed en masse. There was no precedent for it.

I don't think it's simple denial, or lack of imagination, to not be real worried about it happening here.

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[GravelRider]

That's why everyone should be armed, and why the Democrats are so misguided in their efforts to disarm people - especially the minorities who tend to be concentrated in cities and on the E/W coasts where gun control is worst.

(It hasn't always been a Democrat problem. It was Republicans who stripped all Californians of their open carry rights in 1967 when the Black Panthers made them uncomfortable. But it's a Democrat problem now.)




If for some unimaginable reason the courts don't stop it before it starts, and a band of thugs from the government comes to round up my Muslim neighbor or give him some kind Nazi-Jew-like flair/emblem to wear around town, I won't speak up, I'll shoot them. Odds are they won't be paying attention to the white guy across the street, and I'll get them all before they know what's happening.

I wouldn't worry too much about whether or not the urban minorities are well armed. Ask the people on the south side of Chicago if they have enough guns.

I get the idea of maintaining civilian arms in case our government gets a little too oppressive. However, if we get to that point, we are f*cked for many reasons. That is why it is important to stay well-informed, support and encourage a free and independent press, and support organizations that are capable of using the law to defend the rights of citizens with the smallest voices.

Trump is a piece of garbage, but I don't think we are anywhere near the cataclysm that was Nazi Germany.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I believe in the goodness of America. Don't believe the lying media about tens of millions of Americans who own guns. Most are not racist, homophobic or islamic hating people. Instead, law abiding U.S. Citizens own guns to defend their families, friends and neighbors from those who would do them harm.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Responsible American Gun owners keep us all free:

 

[pgg]

I wouldn't worry too much about whether or not the urban minorities are well armed. Ask the people on the south side of Chicago if they have enough guns.

Which people should I ask?

The law abiding ones who can't get a carry permit? Or who couldn't buy a handgun because they were banned in the city?

I won't belabor the point.

 

[GravelRider]

Responsible American Gun owners keep us all free:

To be fair, that is an ad from the NRA. I'm not sure how gun owners keep us all free. If anything, it should be a video of all the lawyers and activists that keep us free.

 

[GravelRider]

Which people should I ask?

The law abiding ones who can't get a carry permit? Or who couldn't buy a handgun because they were banned in the city?

I won't belabor the point.

You just made a point about urban minorities being disarmed and how that makes them vulnerable to gangs of thugs...or potentially government sanctioned racist gangs of thugs. My point is that as it stands now, urban minorities are pretty well armed...legal or not.

It actually brings forth an interesting take on the gun issue. I am willing to bet that many of the people in rural America (politicians included) who defend the 2nd amendment have biases in thinking that gun rights shouldn't extend to urban minorities. You brought up the Black Panthers a few posts ago. To many people in rural America, the black man is seen as a scary criminal and the last thing they would want is armed black men. In fact, it was a Republican...Rudy Giuliani...who reinforced many of the gun control laws in places like NYC.

Caveat: I don't have strong feelings either way on the gun issue. I can see both sides. I am not a gun owner, but I have friends and family who do.

 

[pgg]

I think you're not wholly wrong, bu most law abiding rural gun owners would be happy to see more law abiding urban gun owners.

If there's a streak of racism there, it's along the lines of "urban youths = criminals, criminals shouldn't have guns, therefore urban youths shouldn't have guns".

But that's actually undetectably uncommon amongst the rural gun owners I know. Or maybe they're just careful to be not racist around me. The ones I know are angry that people in Chicago, DC, and San Francisco can't exercise their rights the way they can.

 

[deleted171991]

Jews got on railroad cars like docile cattle because they didn't have any reason to suspect they were going to be executed en masse. There was no precedent for it.

I don't think it's simple denial, or lack of imagination, to not be real worried about it happening here.

Use a bit of common sense. Jews got on railroad cars because otherwise they were beaten, and if they tried to run away they were shot dead. They simply had no choice, like many of the people persecuted by the nazis. It's not like anybody was giving them refuge (with few heroic exceptions). Nobody's doing that for today's refugees either. It takes a lot of altruism to help people who have nothing to offer in exchange.

Same goes for defending one's neighbor if the thugs come for him. Most people in big cities don't even know who their neighbors are, and couldn't care less. Most people are not altruistic at all when picking their battles in life; au contraire. They go by the Niemoller poem, hoping that they will go unnoticed and won't share the same fate. Divide and conquer.

Anyway, we'll see. I just hope the Trump government won't do anything Americans will be ashamed of till the end of their lives. Our image abroad, of champions of democracy and leaders of the free world, is already in tatters.

 

[deleted171991]

Richard Rorty, a leftist writer, in 1998:

Something will crack. The nonsuburban electorate will decide that the system has failed and start looking around for a strongman to vote for—someone willing to assure them that, once he is elected, the smug bureaucrats, tricky lawyers, overpaid bond salesmen, and postmodernist professors will no longer be calling the shots. . . . One thing that is very likely to happen is that the gains made in the past forty years by black and brown Americans, and by homosexuals, will be wiped out. Jocular contempt for women will come back into fashion. . . . All the resentment which badly educated Americans feel about having their manners dictated to them by college graduates will find an outlet.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/28/obama-reckons-with-a-trump-presidency

By the way, since I mentioned the expected democrat cowardice, has anybody noticed that nobody is asking for Comey's resignation anymore?

 

[joestern2025]

It appears we may see some backlash to words us in the international arena. President elect Trump has promised to pull the U.S. out of many international agreements concerning climate change. One be has listed is the Paris accord, the Chinese have already stated their willingness to abide by these accords and stated their belief in climate change. Several nations have expressed an idea to charge a carbon tax on U.S. goods and services and are looking to China to leads.
This is an example of the international cost of voter ignorance. The U.S. ceding international leadership to China!

 

[RadOncDoc21]

I guess dude is guilty (Trump University)- he will probably just use the federal reserve money to pay it off.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_582f65fbe4b058ce7aab0907

 

[BLADEMDA]

To be fair, that is an ad from the NRA. I'm not sure how gun owners keep us all free. If anything, it should be a video of all the lawyers and activists that keep us free.

I absolutely agree that the lawyers, legal system and activists play a vital role in our republic. They are essential to our system. That said, the second amendment is part of our nation's heritage. The founding fathers thought it essential that we the people have the right to bear arms.

 

[deleted162650]

You mean the thugs who probably own enough assault weapons to start a World War? Fat chance.

In times like these, everybody is a minority. One never knows when one gets on the thugs' bad side:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
(Martin Niemöller)

"When Pastor Niemöller was put in a concentration camp we wrote the year 1937; when the concentration camp was opened we wrote the year 1933, and the people who were put in the camps then were Communists. Who cared about them? We knew it, it was printed in the newspapers.
Who raised their voice, maybe the Confessing Church? We thought: Communists, those opponents of religion, those enemies of Christians - "should I be my brother's keeper?"
Then they got rid of the sick, the so-called incurables. - I remember a conversation I had with a person who claimed to be a Christian. He said: Perhaps it's right, these incurably sick people just cost the state money, they are just a burden to themselves and to others. Isn't it best for all concerned if they are taken out of the middle [of society]? -- Only then did the church as such take note. Then we started talking, until our voices were again silenced in public. Can we say, we aren't guilty/responsible? The persecution of the Jews, the way we treated the occupied countries, or the things in Greece, in Poland, in Czechoslovakia or in Holland, that were written in the newspapers
I believe, we Confessing-Church-Christians have every reason to say: mea culpa, mea culpa! We can talk ourselves out of it with the excuse that it would have cost me my head if I had spoken out."

I think you're being a bit dramatic there FFP. The Trumpstapo is not gonna round up all the brown people in the middle of the night. In fact, I'm willing to bet you all the money in @Consigliere's retirement account that will never happen.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I think you're being a bit dramatic there FFP. The Trumpstapo is not gonna round up all the brown people in the middle of the night. In fact, I'm willing to bet you all the money in @Consigliere's retirement account that will never happen.

IMHO, the Trump administration ends up only deporting illegal aliens with a criminal record. Most of the "wall" ends up being a fence at the border. Trump is a salesman/showman who used his skills to convince people to vote for him. But just like Trump University the reality is far different than the sales pitch.

 

[GravelRider]

IMHO, the Trump administration ends up only deporting illegal aliens with a criminal record. Most of the "wall" ends up being a fence at the border. Trump is a salesman/showman who used his skills to convince people to vote for him. But just like Trump University the reality is far different than the sales pitch.

Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any other President. Trump will keep the status quo and then take credit for it.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any other President. Trump will keep the status quo and then take credit for it.

At least he's learning, I'll take that. I did see Ivanka was in a meeting with Japanese leaders, so there goes the conflict of interest in regards to his business.

 

[deleted171991]

I think you're being a bit dramatic there FFP. The Trumpstapo is not gonna round up all the brown people in the middle of the night. In fact, I'm willing to bet you all the money in @Consigliere's retirement account that will never happen.

First of all, the reason Consigliere can promise his US retirement account left and right is because all his money is in the Caymans, and officially he's Medicaid material.

On topic, that's not what I am afraid of (yet). I don't expect to see black/brown shirts marching on the street soon. What I am afraid of is a racially-charged atmosphere, where hate groups can publicly persecute and attack peaceful minority citizens, like they did in the South before the civil rights movement. When you are a white supremacist (or let's call them what they are, neonazi) and you know that the AG is a KKK-sympathizer, and the President in office discriminates against women and minorities, you feel much safer in your hateful actions. You can also influence a lot of decent but dumb (or scared) people. Already public displays of intolerant behavior in the country have increased to levels not seen in America for a long time. And they are going unpunished, and will probably keep going unpunished because even a decent law enforcement officer or prosecutor can be afraid that somebody higher up is a sympathizer (since the White House is getting full of them). And once more and more hate goes unpunished (as it used to happen in the South), then nobody can tell where it will stop.

We have all to watch and protect the canaries in the mine, the smallest, weakest and easiest to hate minorities in the country, which probably are the Muslims, and possibly the Jews. If the rhetoric and discrimination against them keeps getting worse, we should all know that it won't stop there. Almost 50% of this country are minorities so, in order to "win", the white supremacists need to first eliminate their influence (by treating them as second-rate citizens, by discriminating against them, by not defending their rights, or downright persecuting them to the level where they lose their jobs, and possibly leave the country), one small group at a time, especially in rural areas and predominantly white communities. Today it's the Syrian refugees, tomorrow is all the Muslims. Then the Jews. Then the Blacks. Then the Asians. Then the Latinos. Nothing will happen overnight, but I am afraid it will get much worse before it gets better. Winter is coming...

One thing is a certain: I am seeing a lot of hate disguised as "national interest" and "economic nationalism".

 

[RadOncDoc21]

First of all, the reason Consigliere can promise his US retirement account left and right is because all his money is in the Caymans, and officially he's Medicaid material.

On topic, that's not what I am afraid of (yet). I don't expect to see black/brown shirts marching on the street soon. What I am afraid of is a racially-charged atmosphere, where hate groups can publicly persecute and attack peaceful minority citizens, like they did in the South before the civil rights movement. When you are a white supremacist (or let's call them what they are, neonazi) and you know that the AG is a KKK-sympathizer, and the President in office discriminates against women and minorities, you feel much safer in your hateful actions. You can also influence a lot of decent but dumb (or scared) people. Already public displays of intolerant behavior in the country have increased to levels not seen in America for a long time. And they are going unpunished, and will probably keep going unpunished because even a decent law enforcement officer or prosecutor can be afraid that somebody higher up is a sympathizer (since the White House is getting full of them). And once more and more violent stuff goes unpunished (as it used to happen in the South), then nobody can tell where it will stop.

We have all to watch and protect the canaries in the mine, the smallest, weakest and easiest to hate minorities in the country, which probably are the Muslims, and possibly the Jews. If the rhetoric and discrimination against them keeps getting worse, we should all know that it won't stop there. Almost 50% of this country are minorities so, in order to "win", the white supremacists need to first eliminate their influence (by treating them as second-rate citizens, by discriminating against them, by not defending their rights, or downright persecuting them to the level where they leave voluntarily), one small group at a time, especially in rural areas and predominantly white communities. Today it's the Syrian refugees, tomorrow is all the Muslims. Then the Jews. Then the Blacks. Then the Asians. Then the Latinos. Nothing will happen overnight, but I am afraid it will get much worse before it gets better. Winter is coming...

My latest issue of Hate Magazine published in Russia says the opposite of what you posted, therefore you are wrong! Now let me go google a stupid meme that "proves" that.

 

[GravelRider]

First of all, the reason Consigliere can promise his US retirement account left and right is because all his money is in the Caymans, and officially he's Medicaid material.

On topic, that's not what I am afraid of (yet). I don't expect to see black/brown shirts marching on the street soon. What I am afraid of is a racially-charged atmosphere, where hate groups can publicly persecute and attack peaceful minority citizens, like they did in the South before the civil rights movement. When you are a white supremacist (or let's call them what they are, neonazi) and you know that the AG is a KKK-sympathizer, and the President in office discriminates against women and minorities, you feel much safer in your hateful actions. You can also influence a lot of decent but dumb (or scared) people. Already public displays of intolerant behavior in the country have increased to levels not seen in America for a long time. And they are going unpunished, and will probably keep going unpunished because even a decent law enforcement officer or prosecutor can be afraid that somebody higher up is a sympathizer (since the White House is getting full of them). And once more and more hate goes unpunished (as it used to happen in the South), then nobody can tell where it will stop.

We have all to watch and protect the canaries in the mine, the smallest, weakest and easiest to hate minorities in the country, which probably are the Muslims, and possibly the Jews. If the rhetoric and discrimination against them keeps getting worse, we should all know that it won't stop there. Almost 50% of this country are minorities so, in order to "win", the white supremacists need to first eliminate their influence (by treating them as second-rate citizens, by discriminating against them, by not defending their rights, or downright persecuting them to the level where they lose their jobs, and possibly leave the country), one small group at a time, especially in rural areas and predominantly white communities. Today it's the Syrian refugees, tomorrow is all the Muslims. Then the Jews. Then the Blacks. Then the Asians. Then the Latinos. Nothing will happen overnight, but I am afraid it will get much worse before it gets better. Winter is coming...

One thing is a certain: I am seeing a lot of hate disguised as "national interest" and "economic nationalism".

I have similar concerns that hate groups will feel newly empowered. In fact, there was a recent report from the FBI that hate crimes are on the rise. I think this election uncovered something ugly that we kind of forgot about or ignored. However, this is still a country that fairly overwhelmingly voted for an intellectual black president...twice. I'm not ready to write America off yet as something akin to Nazi Germany. Let's not minimize how truly atrocious Nazi Germany was. I have hope that our progressive cities will still be those beacons. I am encouraged by many city mayors refusing to give up their status as sanctuary cities. It's also our job to speak up when we hear or see some form of discrimination. It can be something small like a surgeon making an off hand racist comment. People have to know that there is not a new normal because there is a bigot in the White House. This election was ultimately about economic disparity (and a bad democrat candidate) and if the Republicans push too hard, they will make it a lot worse.

 

[deleted171991]

I have similar concerns that hate groups will feel newly empowered. In fact, there was a recent report from the FBI that hate crimes are on the rise. I think this election uncovered something ugly that we kind of forgot about or ignored. However, this is still a country that fairly overwhelmingly voted for an intellectual black president...twice. I'm not ready to write America off yet as something akin to Nazi Germany. Let's not minimize how truly atrocious Nazi Germany was. I have hope that our progressive cities will still be those beacons. I am encouraged by many city mayors refusing to give up their status as sanctuary cities. It's also our job to speak up when we hear or see some form of discrimination. It can be something small like a surgeon making an off hand racist comment. People have to know that there is not a new normal because there is a bigot in the White House. This election was ultimately about economic disparity (and a bad democrat candidate) and if the Republicans push too hard, they will make it a lot worse.

Part of me is also cautiously optimistic, along the same lines. Only time will tell.

Humans tend to have very short memories, and even smaller resilience to evil. Do most of us even remember our lives before 9/11, before the surveillance state? People are naive and accept evil in their lives if there is some pretext reason for it, especially if that "reason" speaks to their fears. We are still losing freedoms, just so slowly and stealthily that most people don't even notice it anymore. The aberration, the erosion of our liberties, has become the new normal. So, as I said, I am very cautiously optimistic; people are like sheep, even very decent people, and tend to go with the flow, not against it.

For now, it seems that the president-elect cannot tolerate even the most peaceful and civilized plea for change and unity:

Hamilton’s cast reminded Pence that inclusivity is an American value. Trump wants an apology.

Vice-president elect Pence, we welcome you and we truly thank you for joining us at Hamilton: An American Musical. We really do.

We, sir, are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents — or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights, sir.

But we truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and work on behalf of all of us. All of us.

We truly thank you for sharing this show — this wonderful American story told by a diverse group of men, women of different colors, creeds, and orientations.

P.S. I must admit that the way Brandon Dixon read that message didn't seem the most respectful to me: http://www.vox.com/culture/2016/11/19/13683864/mike-pence-hamilton-booed-clip.

 

[BLADEMDA]

At least he's learning, I'll take that. I did see Ivanka was in a meeting with Japanese leaders, so there goes the conflict of interest in regards to his business.

Really? You think Trump Enterprises isn't going to make hundreds of millions/billion off his Presidency? Trump is the big leagues in terms of using his position and influence to make sure his kids reap the profits from his office; compared to Clinton who would have made perhaps 20-30 million off her presidency.

All of these politicians take care of their family and friends; it's how the game works.

That $25 million legal settlement is peanuts.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/25-million-settlement-reached-trump-university-lawsuit-n686026