Wait another year?.... Or go now...

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Alpha Centauri said:
Nothing is for sure. I was rejected from 10 schools this (my first) cycle even with my stats, albeit many of them were likely since I was OOS. However, there are a multitude of private schools I have not heard back from. I was rejected from my state school as well. If I reapplied next year, who knows what could happen with my application. Maybe no school would have ever gotten back to me. You have a career in your hand and although not financially ideal, you have a huge decision to make with a number of factors at play
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When did you apply? If you applied late in the cycle, that likely explains the lack of acceptances despite the decent stats.
 
definitely no unless you have a scholarship option
 
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Go to USC. That's a lot of potential income you'll be missing out on by delaying another year. Not to mention there's no guarantee you even get an acceptance the next year. I know a guy who declined an acceptance to USC for medical school and ended up not getting in anywhere the next cycle. Now he's working as a lab tech for his career. Welcome to the class of 2021!
 
You should try to find a dentist who graduated from USC and ask him if you can come shadow for a day to talk about your concerns about tuition and stuff.
Seeing a successful dentist who graduated froma school that I planned to attend really gave me the confidence about my choice and took away most of my concerns, if not all.
Good luck OP, whichever path you choose 🙂
 
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I would just go to USC. That's a whole year of your life and it sounds like you can maybe save money by commuting from home and your parents can help you pay off the interest. If they pay 100k like you said and you end up with 300k in debt then I don't think that is too bad. Most kids going to state schools will end up with that much.
 
DreamChaser01 said:
He's an orthodontist with 380k student loan, but OP is going to finish dental school with 500k or more of student loan. If OP decided to specialize that could easily be another 150k on top of his 500k student loan. If OP is not going to specialize then his debt and income ratio is just out of control.
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Even if OP specialized, the debt/income ratio would be out of this world.
 
Panis et Circenses said:
Even if OP specialized, the debt/income ratio would be out of this world.
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But will OP find a better scenario? If he waits a year, he loses 130k+ as an associate, loses a year of experience and speed (from what I've read, speed is real important for income potential), and has a chance of not getting in. If he can find a school 300k or less, it may be worth it, but if it's a school that's like 350-400k vs 500 from USC, I would say it's not worth at all.
 
Medin2017 said:
But will OP find a better scenario? If he waits a year, he loses 130k+ as an associate, loses a year of experience and speed (from what I've read, speed is real important for income potential), and has a chance of not getting in. If he can find a school 300k or less, it may be worth it, but if it's a school that's like 350-400k vs 500 from USC, I would say it's not worth at all.
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500k of debt for dentistry isnt worth it, period.
 
USC for sure.
You will be 400k in debt even after your parents give you 200k?
 
Applied to dental school because wants to go to dental school. Gets into dental school. Makes post about wanting to reapply to get into a different school. Weird trend this year sdn
 
esqueleto said:
Applied to dental school because wants to go to dental school. Gets into dental school. Makes post about wanting to reapply to get into a different school. Weird trend this year sdn
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I sympathize. A lot of us including me were really oblivious to the meaning of the debt we'd be taking on before applying. Now when people come to realize it after it being emphasized so much on SDN AFTER people applied, they're showing doubt. It's natural and not weird at all.
 
blablabla1 said:
I sympathize. A lot of us including me were really oblivious to the meaning of the debt we'd be taking on before applying. Now when people come to realize it after it being emphasized so much on SDN AFTER people applied, they're showing doubt. It's natural and not weird at all.
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Oh yeah, I agree that dental school is super expensive. But nowadays it's kind of unavoidable unless you're on a scholarship or something. At the end of the day, everyone's looking at $200k+. Whether you're on the low end of the spectrum or the high end, it doesn't matter - it sucks. But what I find interesting about this cycle (I applied last cycle and didn't really see this) is that people are doubting their decision to pursue dentistry. I'm just saying SDN isn't the only resource out there and it shouldn't be what people rely on to get informed on significant things, such as the cost of dental school. I mean it shouldn't be surprising; it's all in the ADEA book and school sites we used when picking where to apply.
 
esqueleto said:
I mean it shouldn't be surprising; it's all in the ADEA book and school sites we used when picking where to apply.
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I would venture to say that most applicants don't look at tuition numbers in the ADEA guide or on school websites. I remember at my Columbia interview when the financial aid adviser asked us if we knew our credit score, and nobody else raised their hand. When you don't deal with loans in undergrad or read about finance, you lose a sense of what your money is worth.

I think that once people read into the numbers and breakdowns on here, they start to panic, because they grew up hearing about how rich dentists are (and they are if they graduated a while ago), and thought that they would be too.
 
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Fets said:
I would venture to say that most applicants don't look at tuition numbers in the ADEA guide or on school websites. I remember at my Colombia interview when the financial aid adviser asked us if we knew our credit score, and nobody else raised their hand. When you don't deal with loans in undergrad or read about finance, you lose a sense of what your money is worth.

I think that once people read into the numbers and breakdowns on here, they start to panic, because they grew up hearing about how rich dentists are (and they are if they graduated a while ago), and thought that they would be too.
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I'm pretty sure he was asking about our credit reports, not our scores.
 
OP, I've heard the financial aid people at USC are on top of their game in terms of providing you with monthly estimates. Are you comfortable with paying that every month? Run the numbers with a $150K, $200K, $250K salary and see whether things look acceptable or not.

Fets said:
I remember at my Colombia interview when the financial aid adviser asked us if we knew our credit score, and nobody else raised their hand.
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Si, señor. Claro que si! Viva Colombia!

In all seriousness, we need more financial advisors like him. I believe I had the same adviser at my Columbia interview, and he was very knowledgable and you could tell, from his attitude, that he was concerned with making sure we interviewees fully understood the Columbia cost of attendance.
 
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gking said:
I am struggling hard to decide what I should do.
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OP - I would go to USC. I'm usually against taking on lots of debt, but this is that classic one acceptance situation. Maybe consider a 3 year HPSP application as well?

Just be mindful of your debt and do everything in your power to keep it down during school. That's your biggest advantage over your classmates - you're aware of your predicament. You won't get to be one of those crazy rich dentists everyone hears about, but then again that lifestyle is probably a dying breed.
 
Fets said:
You won't get to be one of those crazy rich dentists everyone hears about, but then again that lifestyle is probably a dying breed.
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You have to be joking, right? Who are you to make that assumption about someone else's career?

Do you HPSP boys get that ability before or after you commission?
 
I think you are bing a bit stingy.

Yeah, you will be in debts, but you won't sit around the house waiting for someone to pay it for you, no you will work hard like the rest of the world and pay back these debts. So, yeah your debts won't go away if you wait for another year of could be should be or would be chances. Who said anyone will give you another chance! This is a year wasted when you could graduate and work as a dentist or specialize.

People telling you to re-apply. I am pretty sure most of them won't do it if the situation was reversed.

Do you want to be a dentist, or do you just want the money?

Because that what looks to the adcom next year, you are into it for money, and you are not even willing to pay for it.



You want the honey, but you are not willing to pay for the honey!
Meanwhile, you are ok for wasting years of your life waiting for the cheapest freaking honey out there, on the expense of life. . That is not gonna happen. Luck do not usually strike twice.





But anyway. If you are planning to re-applying then move to texas and become a resident there ASAP. I think they have the cheapest Honey possible.
 
Alpha Centauri said:
You have to be joking, right? Who are you to make that assumption about someone else's career?

Do you HPSP boys get that ability before or after you commission?
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I meant it in a lighthearted way. You don't have to have a military scholarship to realize that 500k of debt with interest accruing will not afford a "rich" lifestyle. Surely you realize this, right? Where will the money for vacation homes, fancy cars, and designer clothes come from? Many people will be happy without all that, but plenty of pre-dents get into this for that reason.

I'm sure the OP will have a successful career. And as for being an "HPSP boy", I still care about student debt and its impact on the field of dentistry. So I encourage people to avoid it.
 
Fets said:
I meant it in a lighthearted way. You don't have to have a military scholarship to realize that 500k of debt with interest accruing will not afford a "rich" lifestyle. Surely you realize this, right? Where will the money for vacation homes, fancy cars, and designer clothes come from? Many people will be happy without all that, but plenty of pre-dents get into this for that reason.

I'm sure the OP will have a successful career. And as for being an "HPSP boy", I still care about student debt and its impact on the field of dentistry. So I encourage people to avoid it.
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If there are GP's that are making a million dollars a year, who are you to say that someone with enough determination cannot aspire to be a dentist in the top 10 percent?
 
Alpha Centauri said:
If there are GP's that are making a million dollars a year, who are you to say that someone with enough determination cannot aspire to be a dentist in the top 10 percent?
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I think @Fets had genuine intentions to just help the OP understand some of the potential financial ramifications of taking $600,000 in debt.

Also, I understand where you're coming from when you make the point that anyone can rise and do well in dentistry. That's true, and given your background and from what I've seen of your posts, I think you'll do quite well in dentistry. Even for your plan, though, less debt = more cash flow = easier to save up for a practice down payment and start building your destiny.

Alpha Centauri said:
Do you HPSP boys get that ability before or after you commission?
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To be fair, this statement is uncalled for. Let's not drag his hard-earned military scholarship or degrade "HPSP boys" like that.
 
Alpha Centauri said:
If there are GP's that are making a million dollars a year, who are you to say that someone with enough determination cannot aspire to be a dentist in the top 10 percent?
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Sure, someone can pull in a million, but I don't think it's likely until 10-15 years out of school. That's after their 500k of student loans and 500k in practice loans are paid off too. Good luck if you're in a saturated area or if you develop a disability.

There's a reason those top 10% dentists are rare, it requires a huge commitment to their business and career. If OP wants to do so, I'm sure they will. When I said that they won't "be one of those crazy rich dentists everyone hears about", I should have added that that statement more so applies to the first decade or so after dental school.
 
Alpha Centauri said:
You have to be joking, right? Who are you to make that assumption about someone else's career?

Do you HPSP boys get that ability before or after you commission?
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Don't think being HPSP has anything to do with his statement. If you're going into d school thinking you will come out as a top dentist making 400k+ (let alone a million), you're just as delusional as all the predents going in thinking they'll come out as OMFS or all the med students going in thinking they'll be derms. Bell curves and statistics exist for a reason. Gotta be realistic (although I will become straight masochistic in d school in an attempt to rank decently high).
 
Fets said:
Sure, someone can pull in a million, but I don't think it's likely until 10-15 years out of school. That's after their 500k of student loans and 500k in practice loans are paid off too. Good luck if you're in a saturated area or if you develop a disability.

There's a reason those top 10% dentists are rare, it requires a huge commitment to their business and career. If OP wants to do so, I'm sure they will. When I said that they won't "be one of those crazy rich dentists everyone hears about", I should have added that that statement more so applies to the first decade or so after dental school.
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Might be even higher% than top 10% dentist. Top 50% of OWNERS make 180k+. Owners would be a "top" percent too when you consider associates out there. And top 25% owners make only 250k. https://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachments/hpidata_sdpi_2015-xlsx.213713/
 
Keep in mind the salary is what the owners take out of their corporation and net income = this salary + amount they leave in their corp. Usually mid 100s is right before a major spike in taxes (in Canada, at least) and their net income is higher than the figures you see on these sheets. Also there are part time owners and owners that are slowing down. In your prime, you can do very well.

A year of waiting is losing the equivalent of a prime year's income not a beginning-of-career year's income. Your prime years are shorter by 1 year.
 
Alpha Centauri said:
You have to be joking, right? Who are you to make that assumption about someone else's career?

Do you HPSP boys get that ability before or after you commission?
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Lol, I don't think that outlash was warranted. Fets gave good advice there. Climbing out of a hole of 400k-500k at the start of your career is not a formula for riches later in life. Especially when the majority of older dentists nowadays graduated with less than 50k or 100k of debt and still aren't "rich" (obviously the definition of rich is subjective).

And yeah, like the other's are saying.. It's probably not a good idea to go into dentistry to think you are going to come out on top. There are a lot of factors that go into being successful not just your determination (such as good business sense, luck, location, your personality, etc etc). Also, usually patients can smell out a greedy dentist from a mile away - and will end up leaving that dentist because they sense they are getting unnecessary work done on them.
 
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gking said:
Dear SDN,

I am struggling hard to decide what I should do. I have been getting a lot of different opinions/thoughts from friends and family.

I was recently accepted to USC Dental School (woohoo!), it was my only acceptance so far. I applied very late, like late October late and I received 2 interviews (USC and UDM) and 2 rejections. My sGPA = 3.8, regular = 3.7, and DAT = 21AA, 22TS, 24PAT.

Here is what I have been wanting to ask, I understand that USC is crazy expensive and even though I live near USC (about 40minutes with LA traffic), I still would be 400k in debt (500k after accrued interest). I have been wondering if it was worth for me to wait another year and apply to out of state (cheaper schools), or HOPEFULLY get in some cheaper in-state schools (CA schools are competitive I think). If I wait another year and I get into an out of state school, it'd be roughly 300k including living expenses. I am not sure if it is worth it to wait another year since there's also that possibility that I might not get in.

I think my parents could POSSIBLY help me out with 100-200k (this is like 30% confirmed as they are hesitant too).

What are you thoughts SDN? Should I just got to USC or wait another year?

Sincerely,

A student who is scared of half a million dollars.
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Did you hear from UDM?
 
Frychicken said:
I would think that "USC's criminally expensive 500K tuition" is a perfectly valid response to this question.

I would re-apply. Owing 500K upon graduation will severely hinder your quality of life for years to come.
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If OP responds with that.....adcoms want to know why OP applied there in the first place?
 
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