WAMC: 3.03 CGPA 3.7 post bacc, staring smp in fall

[Seldentaleli]

Hi everyone, I recently decided to switch back to being pre-med after being pre-dental for the last 2 years. I realized that it was what I really wanted to do and that I was avoiding it because of fear of failure. I know that I have a lot of work to do before I am ready to apply but I am willing to do whatever it takes to maximize my chances as much as possible. Below is what I have done so far, any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

1. cGPA/sGPA/post-bacc/grad: 3.03 (after this semester)/3.2/3.7 (50+ credits after this semester)/4.0 (took 12 grad credits at Harvard extension)
2. MCAT: I have not taken it yet, I am mostly making this post to get feedback regarding my low gpa and advice regarding my experiences but if there is a certain score I should aim for, please let me know.
3. State of residence: IL
4. Ethnicity and/or race: Middle Eastern
5. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer): pharmacy tech for about a year, COVID-19 vaccine clinic volunteer, blood drive volunteer, local hospital volunteer, have 2 final interviews this week for a medical assistant and medical scribe positions so will be adding that if I get either of those jobs,
6. Research experience and productivity: did research for about 3 months at my undergrad and will look for another opportunity when I start the smp
7. Shadowing experience and specialties represented: I have not shadowed but have a lot of opportunities lined up for this year before I apply next cycle (2024)! I plan on spending about 40 hours shadowing each speciality.
8. Non-clinical volunteering: pre-health club, middle eastern club, cadaver lab volunteer/shadow, after school program in underprivileged area, colleges against
9. Other extracurricular activities: 2 leadership positions in my sorority, started my own successful etsy business, will be adding more experiences helping out in underprivileged areas in Chicago (already reached out to multiple organizations)
10. Relevant honors or awards: honors student at my community college
11. Anything else not listed you think might be important: some red flags are that I failed and retook multiple science courses during undergrad; also during my post bacc, I got sick during the Summer session of ochem I and ended up failing as a result. I retook and got a C. I am currently in ochem2 and biochem and doing much better which I hope will make up for it.

I'm currently applying to a couple SMPs/bio masters in IL and MI, will doing well in these programs help me? Also, I calculated how many credits I would need to get my GPA up to a ugpa 3.5 and it is definitely doable. The only problem is that I am running out of courses. Is it worth it to concurrently work on raising my ugpa while in the SMP? Or should I live my GPA as is and just focus on the graduate courses?

Thank you in advance!

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[chilly_md]

There is diminishing returns on shadowing beyond 50 hours, so your time would be better spent doing non-clinical volunteering instead of having hundreds of hours in this area.

You will need to get some non-clinical experience outside of an academic setting. Consider a local food bank, homeless shelter, soup kitchen, Big Brother Big Sister etc. The schools that reward reinvention look for this as opposed to research or school-related activities. Since you have already met the 3.0 GPA cut-off, an SMP would be a better than taking more undergrad courses. Whichever has the best linkage with their corresponding med school would be best.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

So you have a lot of options on the plate, and honestly, it seems confusing to me. Would an SMP help? Sure, given your undergrad GPA, but I think you have a lot of postbac coursework that shows you could handle graduate courses. If you have been accepted to an SMP, or have access now to a prehealth advisor who can access your transcripts, you could get some clearer analysis of how your records would be viewed.

You need a lot of traditional community service that is non-clinical, as suggested above. I don't see how you have done this without having to be on campus.

The catch is that you probably won't be able to rack up hours if you are in certain graduate programs. You have yet to take the MCAT, but I would not take it until I coordinated with the SMP.

 

[Seldentaleli]

So you have a lot of options on the plate, and honestly, it seems confusing to me. Would an SMP help? Sure, given your undergrad GPA, but I think you have a lot of postbac coursework that shows you could handle graduate courses. If you have been accepted to an SMP, or have access now to a prehealth advisor who can access your transcripts, you could get some clearer analysis of how your records would be viewed.

You need a lot of traditional community service that is non-clinical, as suggested above. I don't see how you have done this without having to be on campus.

The catch is that you probably won't be able to rack up hours if you are in certain graduate programs. You have yet to take the MCAT, but I would not take it until I coordinated with the SMP.

Thank you for your reply! I will definitely reach out to my undergrad pre health advisor! Do you think doing the SMP is a waste? If I didn't I would continue taking upper level bio courses during the year but I am honestly running out of courses to take.

Although I have a lot of post bacc hours, I want to do the SMP for a couple of reasons. One of these is because of the linkages to med school. I know that they don't guarantee an acceptance but it will at least give me a slightly better chance, especially to schools I am really interested in. Also, as you said, my undergrad GPA is low and I guess I am afraid that regardless of my upward trend, some schools will look at the overall value and not give me a chance (I may be wrong but that is just how I thought about it). Also, since I have a lot to do with volunteering, mcat, etc. I wouldn't be ready to apply this cycle anyways so I thought the smp would be a good thing to do during this year!

I plan on starting to get those hours (non-clinical, shadowing, etc) starting now until end of Summer incase I don't have as much time while in the masters program as you said. A lot of the experiences I have are from before COVID and during my last year of college when we went back in person.

 

[Seldentaleli]

There is diminishing returns on shadowing beyond 50 hours, so your time would be better spent doing non-clinical volunteering instead of having hundreds of hours in this area.

You will need to get some non-clinical experience outside of an academic setting. Consider a local food bank, homeless shelter, soup kitchen, Big Brother Big Sister etc. The schools that reward reinvention look for this as opposed to research or school-related activities. Since you have already met the 3.0 GPA cut-off, an SMP would be a better than taking more undergrad courses. Whichever has the best linkage with their corresponding med school would be best.

Thank you for your reply! I will work on getting those experiences within the next couple months and while in the SMP as much as possible

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you for your reply! I will definitely reach out to my undergrad pre health advisor!

If you got accepted to an SMP, ask THEIR advisor, not your undergrad. SMP staff want to get you to medical school and should be coaching you all the way, even before you start SMP classes.

 

[candbgirl]

I’m confused by much of your post, especially #1 above. You have so many numbers that I’m not sure what you are trying to convert. It also seems that you are trying to do everything in a very short period of time. And that’s probably not a good idea. Your focus should be on your grades for now. A 3.03 CGPA is very low . I know you have calculated various options but you have to understand that SPM programs are high stakes/high rewards. And they are very hard and expensive. Are you looking at one year programs? Many people consider SMP a back door into med school You have to shine.
Your ECs need work too. Your possible clinical opportunities as a scribe or MA are good ideas. But are you going to continue these activities if you are accepted to a SMP. The nonclinical volunteering needs work too. You have to get off campus and out of your comfort zone and help people that are very unlike yourself. Medicine is a service profession and you are expected to be able to deal with and work with all kinds of people. You know about the shadowing -50 hours including some with a primary care doc is plenty.
So slow down and do it right. You didn’t get into this academic /application situation overnight, so slow down and do it right. Whether you apply in 24, 25 or later doesn’t matter. What matters is that when you apply you are ready with a viable application.

Good luck.

 

[Seldentaleli]

Hi! Thank you for your message and your advice, it is super helpful and I completely agree with you! Sorry if my post seems confusing. I will try to explain.

I graduated in Spring 2022 with a 2.5 uGPA. Since then, I have taken been taking upper level Bio courses to get my GPA to the 3.0 cutoff. I would have went straight into an SMP right after graduation but unfortunately I was not eligible for most programs with my GPA at that time. I also wanted to take time to work on myself and figure out what I wanted to do and also make sure that I succeed in my courses, which After this semester, I have already taken about 50+ credits (This is what the post bacc GPA I put above refers to). The reason why I also added a graduate GPA is because a couple of those courses were technically graduate credit so I thought that would mean they would be considered a different category. So that is my explanation to why #1 is broken down into those categories.

Now that I meet the requirements for the SMP, I will be hopefully be starting that in the fall. I am only looking at one year programs because I've heard that more than that is not necessary. I know that it will be a lot of work and will be difficult but I know myself and why I had poor grades in the past. I have grown up a lot since then and formed study skills and the motivation I need to succeed.

As for my EC's, I will definitely be working on those non-clinical experiences as you and the other stated as well! I transferred universities after my second year to be closer to the city and be able to do all of these things but the pandemic occurred that semester so I had no opportunities available to me for basically the rest of undergrad.

I have some questions
- You said that my cGPA is low, which I recognize and am worried about as well. My original plan was to work on raising that more but I am running out of classes to take and I don't want to take random courses just to raise it. That is why I decided to do the SMP. Do you think that I should take a couple more courses to get it up to around a 3.1+ in the Summer before starting the SMP? Or will that not really make a difference in the big picture?
- Given that I do well on the SMP, will more weight be put on my graduate GPA or will my low uGPA still cause issues?

 

[spiritedMD]

hi!

I’m new here in sdn, so take my words with a grain of salt. But… I’m in a SMP right now and recently got an A in a private school as a non-trad. I also have a 3.9 from Harvard extension school (postbac).

I agree with all the wonderful comments above. But I also think this might be help you. In one of the info sessions that my program provides, someone from a local DO school was there along with the admissions staff as part of the presentation. He graduated from my program with a 3.5 but didn’t get in anywhere. He instead did another masters program at that DO school before getting in.

It kinda seemed odd to me that he needed an extra masters AFTER my program, so I asked him why he needed that, since I thought the whole point of doing a SMP was to prove you can handle medical school. He explained that his uGPA was under 3.0, and he believed that schools just wasn’t able to look over that despite having done well enough in the SMP, taking courses along with med students. This was shocking to me and some of my friends. So it’s something to ponder given your uGPA.

On another note, you will not have time to much else in SMP. To increase your chances, you really need as high of GPA as possible. I’m sure you’re very smart, but it will demand a lot of your time.

So, it’ll be best to have all other ducks lined up before starting SMP, because you will not have time to do all the things you said you’re gonna do. Integrity matters, and you need to be able to prove that you did what you tell the schools you’ll do this year. Having said that, those who really benefit from an SMP program are those who have everything else under their belt but their GPA.

Another way SMP could be helpful is to apply AFTER finishing the program. I know a lot of my friends are doing that, because they aren’t sure if their application is ready. The plan is, focus on the program and finish with excellent GPA, then take a gap year to build experiences then apply. Doing the SMP also prepares you well for the MCAT, since you’re basically learning so much more info then you need to know for the bio section of MCAT.

I really, really agree with the above comment. Take it slowly. If you don’t have a good reason to hurry, do the SMP, do enough shadowing, volunteer regularly at soup kitchens for at least six months to a year, and get some research done. There is a reason why schools are seeking these particular set of experiences before they consider your other life experiences as an asset(though your Etsy business sounds cool - save some money or pay rent!!)

I really hope it works out for you. It’s a journey filled with a lot of anxiety, uncertainty, and stress, but for me 4+ years of premed work was worth every second as a nontrad.

Best of luck to you!

 

[Seldentaleli]

hi!

I’m new here in sdn, so take my words with a grain of salt. But… I’m in a SMP right now and recently got an A in a private school as a non-trad. I also have a 3.9 from Harvard extension school (postbac).

I agree with all the wonderful comments above. But I also think this might be help you. In one of the info sessions that my program provides, someone from a local DO school was there along with the admissions staff as part of the presentation. He graduated from my program with a 3.5 but didn’t get in anywhere. He instead did another masters program at that DO school before getting in.

It kinda seemed odd to me that he needed an extra masters AFTER my program, so I asked him why he needed that, since I thought the whole point of doing a SMP was to prove you can handle medical school. He explained that his uGPA was under 3.0, and he believed that schools just wasn’t able to look over that despite having done well enough in the SMP, taking courses along with med students. This was shocking to me and some of my friends. So it’s something to ponder given your uGPA.

On another note, you will not have time to much else in SMP. To increase your chances, you really need as high of GPA as possible. I’m sure you’re very smart, but it will demand a lot of your time.

So, it’ll be best to have all other ducks lined up before starting SMP, because you will not have time to do all the things you said you’re gonna do. Integrity matters, and you need to be able to prove that you did what you tell the schools you’ll do this year. Having said that, those who really benefit from an SMP program are those who have everything else under their belt but their GPA.

Another way SMP could be helpful is to apply AFTER finishing the program. I know a lot of my friends are doing that, because they aren’t sure if their application is ready. The plan is, focus on the program and finish with excellent GPA, then take a gap year to build experiences then apply. Doing the SMP also prepares you well for the MCAT, since you’re basically learning so much more info then you need to know for the bio section of MCAT.

I really, really agree with the above comment. Take it slowly. If you don’t have a good reason to hurry, do the SMP, do enough shadowing, volunteer regularly at soup kitchens for at least six months to a year, and get some research done. There is a reason why schools are seeking these particular set of experiences before they consider your other life experiences as an asset(though your Etsy business sounds cool - save some money or pay rent!!)

I really hope it works out for you. It’s a journey filled with a lot of anxiety, uncertainty, and stress, but for me 4+ years of premed work was worth every second as a nontrad.

Best of luck to you!

Hi! Congrats on your acceptance that is so exciting! If you don't mind me asking, what was your uGPA and do you have any experiences that you are willing to share that you think helped you in getting accepted?

Thank you so much for your advice. I definitely agree with you and everyone else. The last thing I want to do is rush this and not get accepted! I could take more courses in the summer to push my uGPA up a little more. However, the reason why I decided to do the SMP is because I am running out undergrad courses to take. There is absolutely nothing else to take at my local colleges and community college, so now I am currently taking courses at Harvard extension, UCLA Extension and UCB extension as well as my local community college.

The SMP I am planning on enrolling in is in a different state and I was looking at their undergrad course catalogue and they have many upper level science courses that I haven't taken yet. So, I was thinking of possibly taking them and relocating before the smp or even pushing it back to start in winter.

 

[spiritedMD]

my uGPA was 3.5, so it wasn’t spectacular.

If I were to guess, I think high sGPA and SMP grades and lots of volunteering to the underserved I did this year could have played a role. I also think doing everything I can to show my interest leading up to and following the interviews helped, especially because it was one of the schools that welcomed updates.

 

[candbgirl]

I think @spiritedMD gave a wonderful, first hand view of SMPS and how they can help.
That person has good and up to date info.
Is the SMP you plan to attend linked with a med school? Are you open to applying to DO schools?

 

[Seldentaleli]

Yes, it does have a linkage to the med school! As long as you get above a certain GPA after 24 credits, you get an automatic interview with them. I know this is not guaranteed admission but it still at least puts my foot in the door. Also, yes I do plan on applying to both MD and DO. I've read that the SMP is highly respected by MSUCOM so that is one of my top choices.