WAMC Dental - Do I still have a chance or should I be doing something?

[lm1271]

Date of submission: Last week of June/First week of July
Application Complete: September due to a LOR missing the letterhead and AADSAS verification error
Overall GPA: 3.53
Science GPA: 3.3
Bio-Chem-Physics GPA: don’t know
DAT score (include AA and all sections): 21 AA, 20 PA, 20 QR, 20 RC, 24 Bio, 20 GC, 21 OC, 22 TS
State of Residence: Illinois

Undergrad Attended: University of Minnesota Twin Cities, graduated may 2021
Major: Biology
Minor: none
Minority? Maybe? South Asian and hijabi
Reapplicant? No
Nontrad? No

Shadowing Experience: 200+ Hours of general, cosmetic, endodontist
Volunteering Experience: 50+ Hours for young women of color in stem
Employment: TAing, teaching, and for a nonprofit. Current employment as a dental assistant, and have been for nearly 1.5 years
Research: for 2 years, would guess around 200+ Hours in ecology focusing of hybridization, speciation, and population dynamics. No publications
Other Extracurriculars: none really, was always working multiple jobs on top of school and research
Relevant Honors or Awards: dean’s list a few times, some scholarships
LOR type and strength: 1 from my gen bio and genetics prof, 1 from my TA for ecology (she’s a postdoc in the lab I worked in as well), 1 from my American Sign Language prof, and 1 from a general dentist I shadowed and worked with for a year
note: I recently saw in an fb post that an LOR should never be by a TA, but a prof instead but I had issues getting responses from profs as I had been out of school for a year and my last 2 years of undergrad were all online (kinda hard to have a strong connection and letter from those profs)
Misc Info/Things not stated elsewhere/Red Flags: I withdrew from Ochem 1 but got a B+ when I retook, I got a C+ In gen chem 1
School list:
-UIC: had no interview invite so I sent a letter of interest in the first week of February, they responded with a thank you and that it was added to my file
-SIU: interviewed November, have heard nothing back despite sending letter of intent in December. I did call and they said the director was on vacation until March and so there won’t be any acceptances till then, but not sure if that’s something they just say to appease people
-U of Minnesota: interviewed January 9th, have heard nothing back, thinking of sending a letter of intent
- Oklahoma: rejected Dec 15th, no explanation of why
-U Detroit mercy: rejected in January, no explanation of why
-Radio silence from the remaining schools: UPenn, Marquette, Rutgers, U Colorado, U Tennessee, Meharry, Creighton, Pittsburg

Is there something glaringly wrong with my app? Is it my interview skills? Should I be doing something else? Like calling up the schools and inquiring about my status? Or sending a letter of intent to Minnesota?

I did just shadow 3 oral surgeons for a total of 12 hours, should I add those to the experiences section and add them separately or as one as they are under one practice?

What are my chances of getting in this cycle? Any insights and critiques are very welcome

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[Ryxndek]

I don't think it's something that's glaringly wrong, but there are a few things that stand out to me based on what I am reading.

1. Your app was submitted early in June, good, but then you got screwed with it actually being completed in September. That really set you back. Creighton has most of their interviews completed by October and they don't interview after November.

2. Your letters of Rec. I'm not sure if you meant your Bio and Genetics prof were the same. And they wrote you one letter. But usually you need 2 science profs that taught you in class. I sorta agree with the advice you were given, you really should have had your Lab PI, not your post-doc, write you that letter. My post-doc practically insisted on me asking my PI to write me one because he told me his name carries no weight, and my PI's would help more. Not to put you down, but my classes were also mostly online, I barely had prof interaction, but they still were willing to write me a letter. It could have been that you didn't ask the right profs, but it wouldn't hurt to ask again if needed. You can PM me, I went to the U, I could help explain what I did that I think really helped my profs write me a letter without knowing me super well.

3. I would really like to see your AADSAS BCP gpa, you can see it by going on your app and downloading your application, from any school, and scrolling down and seeing it. Your Ochem gpa would have been averaged i think, so your BCP gpa could potentially be a lot lower than your overall Sci GPA which could have discouraged schools. Though your DAT is solid so it couldn't have done that much damage.

It could potentially be your interview skills, you got 2 interviews. MN hasn't sent out any acceptances recently, the class is about 75% full, but mostly with IS students, not many OOS or international so there's still a chance for you! Sending a letter of intent most likely wouldn't do much in affecting your status but if you feel like it might help you in telling yourself you've done all you could, then it wouldn't hurt in writing one and sending it.

You could add the oral surgery shadowing, but only as 1 experience, and include that you shadowed 3 surgeons in the comments box.

Hoping for more luck this cycle, but I would prepare for reapplication as a last resort and get into contact with your letter writers just in case so you have everything ready.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I'll add my impressions: I don't see anything outstanding with community service. I am not one to trash supporting women in STEM, but I presume you had much more community service that you aren't disclosing. Otherwise, it seems rather small and becomes a bit challenging to give me insight that you have a broader understanding of communities in need. Your class in ASL is intriguing, so I would be interested in how it connects with activities you did or have a meaningful vested interest in. 50 hours is 1 hour a week over a year... that's not enough. (You need at least 100 to 150.)

I would be interested in feedback from advisors from your prehealth office. Did you meet with any of the admissions staff during their recruitment events while you were a student? Did you visit dental schools or connect with students at those campuses? How much support can the prehealth office give you since you graduated?

I would send a follow-up to Minnesota if they haven't given you a decision. It's nearly a month since your interview, and I would hope their practice is to notify you by now.

There's a lot of narrative we don't have, so I'm not sure if your messaging is off regarding mission match. I don't know the compelling reasons to apply to Meharry, Penn, Colorado, or Tennessee.

 

[lm1271]

I don't think it's something that's glaringly wrong, but there are a few things that stand out to me based on what I am reading.

1. Your app was submitted early in June, good, but then you got screwed with it actually being completed in September. That really set you back. Creighton has most of their interviews completed by October and they don't interview after November.

2. Your letters of Rec. I'm not sure if you meant your Bio and Genetics prof were the same. And they wrote you one letter. But usually you need 2 science profs that taught you in class. I sorta agree with the advice you were given, you really should have had your Lab PI, not your post-doc, write you that letter. My post-doc practically insisted on me asking my PI to write me one because he told me his name carries no weight, and my PI's would help more. Not to put you down, but my classes were also mostly online, I barely had prof interaction, but they still were willing to write me a letter. It could have been that you didn't ask the right profs, but it wouldn't hurt to ask again if needed. You can PM me, I went to the U, I could help explain what I did that I think really helped my profs write me a letter without knowing me super well.

3. I would really like to see your AADSAS BCP gpa, you can see it by going on your app and downloading your application, from any school, and scrolling down and seeing it. Your Ochem gpa would have been averaged i think, so your BCP gpa could potentially be a lot lower than your overall Sci GPA which could have discouraged schools. Though your DAT is solid so it couldn't have done that much damage.

It could potentially be your interview skills, you got 2 interviews. MN hasn't sent out any acceptances recently, the class is about 75% full, but mostly with IS students, not many OOS or international so there's still a chance for you! Sending a letter of intent most likely wouldn't do much in affecting your status but if you feel like it might help you in telling yourself you've done all you could, then it wouldn't hurt in writing one and sending it.

You could add the oral surgery shadowing, but only as 1 experience, and include that you shadowed 3 surgeons in the comments box.

Hoping for more luck this cycle, but I would prepare for reapplication as a last resort and get into contact with your letter writers just in case so you have everything ready.

Thank you so much for the super comprehensive response.

1. Yes the issue with the app completion date is really disappointing especially as I wasn’t made aware of those 2 issues until 2 schools had reached out to me specifically inquiring about it and then I was able to resolve them

2. For the professor LOR thing, yes I had the same prof for genetics and gen bio and he wrote one of my letters (I realize how badly worded that was). For the second science letter, I wanted to have the head of my lab write that for me but the U specifically said that unless they had taught me in a course, that would not count. Instead that would count as a supervisor letter. AADSAS only allows 4 LORs and the most strategic way I saw was 2 science, 1 non science, and one from a dentist/supervisor. They did say that a letter from a TA would be acceptable. So I thought that a letter from a traditional prof plus a TA who could account for my research as well would be a good way to go to also incorporate my research as I wanted to have the dentist that mentored me write my LOR for supervisor/dentist. Hopefully that makes sense, not sure if that was the right move now looking back, I attached what the U says about LORs too.

3. Just checked my bcp gpa and it is 3.38. Not the best but I hope my DAT makes up for it

4. I did wonder if it might be my interview skills as well, but I wouldn’t say they went badly. I had good conversations with my interviewers every time, even made them laugh, definitely no awkward pauses or standout bad things

I agree that at this point reapplication is something I should be getting ready for. Besides changing my LORs to profs and getting more volunteering in, is there something else I should do to increase my chances the next time around?

 

[Ryxndek]

Yeah the LOR thing for the U could be seen as confusing. When I applied this year I had 3 sci profs write me a letter and then had the U use my PI letter as the supervisor letter because of how they worded things. And I didn’t have my PI as a prof so yeah, couldn’t use him for the sci requirement.

I pretty much did what you did, but did 3 sci profs and 1 supervisor, my PI instead. My dentist was busy at the time and when I needed to apply I was too late to getting back to him, so poor planning on my part.

The BCP gpa isn’t bad actually. slightly below average for the U, but barely. You make up for it with your DAT

Honestly there’s still a chance for the U, send the letter and see what happens. Otherwise I’d prep for the reapplication and just make sure/confirm with schools that everything went through. Are you still volunteering and shadowing? You’ll want to pick that up so you have more hours if/when you apply again.

 

[lm1271]

I'll add my impressions: I don't see anything outstanding with community service. I am not one to trash supporting women in STEM, but I presume you had much more community service that you aren't disclosing. Otherwise, it seems rather small and becomes a bit challenging to give me insight that you have a broader understanding of communities in need. Your class in ASL is intriguing, so I would be interested in how it connects with activities you did or have a meaningful vested interest in. 50 hours is 1 hour a week over a year... that's not enough. (You need at least 100 to 150.)

I would be interested in feedback from advisors from your prehealth office. Did you meet with any of the admissions staff during their recruitment events while you were a student? Did you visit dental schools or connect with students at those campuses? How much support can the prehealth office give you since you graduated?

I would send a follow-up to Minnesota if they haven't given you a decision. It's nearly a month since your interview, and I would hope their practice is to notify you by now.

There's a lot of narrative we don't have, so I'm not sure if your messaging is off regarding mission match. I don't know the compelling reasons to apply to Meharry, Penn, Colorado, or Tennessee.

To be honest, my volunteering is on the weak side. I supported myself through college so anything I did do outside of school, I was making sure it was a compensated position. I was willing to have that as a weaker spot in my app for financial reasons and hoping that the other parts of my app would make up for it. Honestly, besides those 50 hours, I volunteered very sporadically here and there for the ymca, it would probably add up to 15 hours and those were done my first two years of undergrad. I don't really remember them so I wouldn't have anything meaningful to say. Additionally I hoped that my paid tutoring and mentoring of students in lower income communities would demonstrate my understanding for communities in need. I have about 200 hours of that, but again, that was a paid position

I did get help from my pre health office, basically going over if I had the prereqs, their recommendations of how to strengthen my application and they recommended a nearby clinic to get hours at, but that ended up closing right as I started there due to covid. I lost some trust in them as they made a mistake about a transferable prereq that I would be able to take for a dental school prereq (super long story, but I am now having to retake organic chemistry lab).

I visited both the dental schools and made a strong connection with a student at the U. The in-person visits went well, I made sure to ask questions and introduce myself to faculty when I could. I also went to every pre-health and grad school fair at the U, and spoke with Chris Held of admissions every time. Not sure about the prehealth office now and the support they can, give but it's a good idea to reach out and I will do that.

I want to make sure I do all I can this cycle to get in, so I am drafting a letter of intent for the U. While I love the U, the only hesitation I have about a letter of intent is what if I get into a school in Illinois with in-state tuition. But at this point, I'm of the mindset that beggars can't be choosers and I'm not optimistic about an interview invite for UIC or admission to SIU. If it helps me get into the U, I'll take the extra debt and hope for scholarships.

When it came to schools I applied to, I had my top choices like the U, SIU, UIC, and UDM. I applied to the other schools as they were in locations I like, my stats were reasonable for them (besides some of the reach schools), and I met the requirements. To be on the safe side, I wanted to apply to at least 13 schools. Additionally, I took physiology rather than anatomy in undergrad and some schools I was interested in applying to required anatomy. As I already had the organic chem lab fiasco to deal with and I work full time, I didn't want to take another course

 

[lm1271]

Yeah the LOR thing for the U could be seen as confusing. When I applied this year I had 3 sci profs write me a letter and then had the U use my PI letter as the supervisor letter because of how they worded things. And I didn’t have my PI as a prof so yeah, couldn’t use him for the sci requirement.

I pretty much did what you did, but did 3 sci profs and 1 supervisor, my PI instead. My dentist was busy at the time and when I needed to apply I was too late to getting back to him, so poor planning on my part.

The BCP gpa isn’t bad actually. slightly below average for the U, but barely. You make up for it with your DAT

Honestly there’s still a chance for the U, send the letter and see what happens. Otherwise I’d prep for the reapplication and just make sure/confirm with schools that everything went through. Are you still volunteering and shadowing? You’ll want to pick that up so you have more hours if/when you apply again.

I completely relate on the LOR planning. I thought that by reaching out in April, I would be good for an early June submission but that didn't work out.

I started drafting the letter of intent, but my only hesitation is what if I get an opportunity at a school in Illinois. But the prospects of that seem low at this point. Despite the higher tuition, the U is super appealing and I've heard more good things about it from the students in comparison to UIC or SIU. I want to make sure I do all I can to get in this cycle. Would continuing to add more shadowing and volunteering to the experiences now help for this cycle?

I am continuing to work as a dental assistant. I shadowed this week and have more coming up with other specialties. I have signed up for dental assistant volunteering in Chicago but I need to get a bunch of tests before that I can start and that will take time. Does the type of volunteering matter, does it only have to be dental or can it be something else? Do you recommend any other types of volunteering besides dental that can help?

 

[Ryxndek]

I completely relate on the LOR planning. I thought that by reaching out in April, I would be good for an early June submission but that didn't work out.

I started drafting the letter of intent, but my only hesitation is what if I get an opportunity at a school in Illinois. But the prospects of that seem low at this point. Despite the higher tuition, the U is super appealing and I've heard more good things about it from the students in comparison to UIC or SIU. I want to make sure I do all I can to get in this cycle. Would continuing to add more shadowing and volunteering to the experiences now help for this cycle?

I am continuing to work as a dental assistant. I shadowed this week and have more coming up with other specialties. I have signed up for dental assistant volunteering in Chicago but I need to get a bunch of tests before that I can start and that will take time. Does the type of volunteering matter, does it only have to be dental or can it be something else? Do you recommend any other types of volunteering besides dental that can help?

Honestly, a letter of intent is not binding, schools will understand and move on and forget. It's sorta seen as something the applicant can do when there's nothing else. Is it likely to impact your admission, probably not, but will it make you feel like you've done all you could this cycle? Yes. So if you need to write one up, do it. Should you get into the U, great! And I look forward to working with you as my colleague in the fall. Should you get into a school with IS tuition, fantastic! The U won't care, and they understand tuition is a large factor in choosing a school. You will just lose out on the deposit.

Adding more hours could help the school in possibly pushing you over the edge and getting admitted, but it should be a relatively significant amount of hours, maybe at least 20+ to make a difference? I'm not totally sure but I'd imagine updating with only a handful of additional hours won't make any significant difference.

Honestly, volunteer work outside of healthcare is viewed more highly and encouraged I felt. I volunteered at a soup kitchen and food bank. Usually helping the less fortunate is viewed better than volunteering in a dental clinic. But any volunteer work is better than none.

Hoping for the best for you this cycle, it's not over until it is, but I would start prepping for a reapply come march if you don't hear back from schools.

 

[comingfords]

Date of submission: Last week of June/First week of July
Application Complete: September due to a LOR missing the letterhead and AADSAS verification error
Overall GPA: 3.53
Science GPA: 3.3
Bio-Chem-Physics GPA: don’t know
DAT score (include AA and all sections): 21 AA, 20 PA, 20 QR, 20 RC, 24 Bio, 20 GC, 21 OC, 22 TS
State of Residence: Illinois

Undergrad Attended: University of Minnesota Twin Cities, graduated may 2021
Major: Biology
Minor: none
Minority? Maybe? South Asian and hijabi
Reapplicant? No
Nontrad? No

Shadowing Experience: 200+ Hours of general, cosmetic, endodontist
Volunteering Experience: 50+ Hours for young women of color in stem
Employment: TAing, teaching, and for a nonprofit. Current employment as a dental assistant, and have been for nearly 1.5 years
Research: for 2 years, would guess around 200+ Hours in ecology focusing of hybridization, speciation, and population dynamics. No publications
Other Extracurriculars: none really, was always working multiple jobs on top of school and research
Relevant Honors or Awards: dean’s list a few times, some scholarships
LOR type and strength: 1 from my gen bio and genetics prof, 1 from my TA for ecology (she’s a postdoc in the lab I worked in as well), 1 from my American Sign Language prof, and 1 from a general dentist I shadowed and worked with for a year
note: I recently saw in an fb post that an LOR should never be by a TA, but a prof instead but I had issues getting responses from profs as I had been out of school for a year and my last 2 years of undergrad were all online (kinda hard to have a strong connection and letter from those profs)
Misc Info/Things not stated elsewhere/Red Flags: I withdrew from Ochem 1 but got a B+ when I retook, I got a C+ In gen chem 1
School list:
-UIC: had no interview invite so I sent a letter of interest in the first week of February, they responded with a thank you and that it was added to my file
-SIU: interviewed November, have heard nothing back despite sending letter of intent in December. I did call and they said the director was on vacation until March and so there won’t be any acceptances till then, but not sure if that’s something they just say to appease people
-U of Minnesota: interviewed January 9th, have heard nothing back, thinking of sending a letter of intent
- Oklahoma: rejected Dec 15th, no explanation of why
-U Detroit mercy: rejected in January, no explanation of why
-Radio silence from the remaining schools: UPenn, Marquette, Rutgers, U Colorado, U Tennessee, Meharry, Creighton, Pittsburg

Is there something glaringly wrong with my app? Is it my interview skills? Should I be doing something else? Like calling up the schools and inquiring about my status? Or sending a letter of intent to Minnesota?

I did just shadow 3 oral surgeons for a total of 12 hours, should I add those to the experiences section and add them separately or as one as they are under one practice?

What are my chances of getting in this cycle? Any insights and critiques are very welcome

I genuinely believe you are a qualified and competitive applicant. Your determination and passion for dentistry comes off clearly in your DAT and extra curricular achievements.

I don't think there were any points in your application which stood out to dental schools as a red flag. Although you could have more volunteering experience from a more diverse pallet of opportunities, your application is not the problem. If you are truly devoted to dentistry, I believe calling and checking in with schools regarding your application will greatly help you! I think this upcoming week, you should try to call each of the schools because sometimes all it takes is a phone call to register your interest. I've heard of a student obtaining an interview at NYU by just calling them once a month to express their interest in the program. You got this!

Regarding your recent shadowing experience, if they were at different practices I would add them separately. If they were all at the same practice, I would just add them as one and note the doctor's names in the description. It is also important to note that you should call/email schools of these recent experiences because they are not always checking AADSAS updates this late in the cycle.

To be completely honest with you, there is still a MASSIVE chance that you get accepted this cycle. Student get accepted all the way up until the first week of dental school! As people commit to schools, schools will look for more and more students to fill their class.

If you have any questions or concern, feel free to PM me! I hope my advice helped. Keep your head up, stay optimistic, and take part in activities that you enjoy to endure this painful waiting process as comfortably as possible!