want to know where you matched?

[tyurq]

I don't think viewing the match result early like this is really an ethical issue. It's bs that we are expected to wait until Friday in the first place. However, I don't see how it is not a "match violation". It is a "match violation" to do something as simple as opening the envelope sitting in front of you at 11:59 am. Part of the NRMP's mission statement is to provide a "fair, efficient, transparent, and reliable" process. The purpose of the match is to "establish a uniform date of appointment". Whether it was NRMP committing the violation by hiding the info in the code or the applicant by looking for said info, the simple fact is that the match process, for this year at least, is now broken. It is bs that so many people found out their match results 4 days early and the rest of us still have to wait, considering the above stated purpose of the NRMP.

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[Goober11]

This thread got really lame really fast

Seriously... For real though, q4h vital checks for nVitcus. Chances are the NRMP called in the goon squad.

 

[keindo]

To all the people saying "that poor programmer":

It wasn't just a typo (since in code you actually have time to review). In addition there are other mistakes on the page that would have allowed you to find your match results even if it was NOT embedded in the source code (but I won't get into how since it would be hacking and thus definitely unethical), and those same weaknesses would have allowed you to find OTHER PEOPLE's match results. The whole page is the work of an amateur. This person could be responsible for other sensitive data that you've given ERAS / NRMP like your SSN, CC#, etc.--and he or she is simply are not qualified for the job.

 

[long]

I submit that NOT looking at the html source code and NOT sharing the good word about match results being in it would be the unethical thing, and as such, the OP did the most ethical thing possible. The rest of us that didn't help out our fellow man by finding out about this are the truly unethical ones.

 

[Ronin786]

I don't think viewing the match result early like this is really an ethical issue. It's bs that we are expected to wait until Friday in the first place. However, I don't see how it is not a "match violation". It is a "match violation" to do something as simple as opening the envelope sitting in front of you at 11:59 am. Part of the NRMP's mission statement is to provide a "fair, efficient, transparent, and reliable" process. The purpose of the match is to "establish a uniform date of appointment". Whether it was NRMP committing the violation by hiding the info in the code or the applicant by looking for said info, the simple fact is that the match process, for this year at least, is now broken. It is bs that so many people found out their match results 4 days early and the rest of us still have to wait, considering the above stated purpose of the NRMP.

Once again, the actual qualm seems to be about not catching it in time and cashing in. It's like a price typo on a site, some are lucky some aren't. Friday is close enough around the corner, just relax and celebrate that you matched.

 

[Rowdy Burns]

mmm, is a public Internet forum never read by programs? Besides you're missing the point of the entire agreement. It's more then semantics. "Well they said I couldn't tell PROGRAMS!". You aren't supposed to know and share that information until it's public on Friday with anyone. Feel privileged that you knew ahead of time, privately.

I've figured it out. You were the guy that always got his @$$ kicked on the playground in school for being a little biotch?

 

[nVictus]

I'm still here, on my AI.

Glad to help those that needed to get a jump start on their plans aka finding competitive housing and whatnot.

Take it easy everyone. I obviously found nothing wrong in what I did and just wanted to share with my fellow colleagues this one win. Everything has felt so one sided in this entire process

 

[rexall1]

Guh. This thread went downhill fast.

Didn't look; okay with it. Congrats to everyone who matched!

And to lifetime doc: don't hate the player hate the game, bro.

 

[mcl]

In response to a question earlier in the thread, I just received confirmation from a coordinator I trust that programs could also discover which applicants on their ROL matched to their program. I haven't done it, and won't--I'm fine with waiting. No other information could be gleaned (if someone on your ROL didn't match with you, you didn't see where he/she did match), but it's obvious that the NRMP's code was written horribly and the people in charge should be held responsible as well as the programmer(s).

 

[thierryhenry]

this is hilarious
and great

 

[RosenthalFiber]

Dude...nobody subverted the match process. No rules were violated. NRMP F'd up and got caught. The end. Unbunch your panties and go have a beer.

Attending physician/SDN Admin posting that is SO much win!! ^^ Congrats to all!!!

 

[IMPD]

PDs could see, they could also see where their applicants who didn't match *did* match.

It's a complicated world and this is the first of many mistakes that will happen. Admittedly, there are few times of such high emotion as the Match and I sympathize with all involved, even people having some buyer's regret. At any rate, it's been a fascinating adventure behind the curtain and who knows, maybe some good will come out of this.

 

[Dr Lyss]

If something leaked that we should have never seen (personal data, other peoples matches, people who didn't match) I would understand some of the inflammatory reactions posted here... But none of that happened. People saw something they were supposed to see, just not yet. They peeked at the Christmas presents. Ethical, unethical whatever (why do med students do this kind of BS).

It's not that big of a deal. If people want to ruin the surprise, let them. It's of no business to you. Relax. Have a drink. Get laid. Stop whining like a little girl

 

[LifetimeDoc]

To all the people saying "that poor programmer":

It wasn't just a typo (since in code you actually have time to review). In addition there are other mistakes on the page that would have allowed you to find your match results even if it was NOT embedded in the source code (but I won't get into how since it would be hacking and thus definitely unethical), and those same weaknesses would have allowed you to find OTHER PEOPLE's match results. The whole page is the work of an amateur. This person could be responsible for other sensitive data that you've given ERAS / NRMP like your SSN, CC#, etc.--and he or she is simply are not qualified for the job.

Well then share the secret on how to find out where we matched so everyone can find out! Level the playing field. Whether it's one step or ten to find the information out, or even if you have to "decrypt" something, we've already opened Pandora's box.

 

[elektroshok]

Well then share the secret on how to find out where we matched so everyone can find out! Level the playing field. Whether it's one step or ten to find the information out, or even if you have to "decrypt" something, we've already opened Pandora's box.

Again. You've just proven that your biggest qualm with this situation is that you missed out before you could check.



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[link2swim06]

Well then share the secret on how to find out where we matched so everyone can find out! Level the playing field. Whether it's one step or ten to find the information out, or even if you have to "decrypt" something, we've already opened Pandora's box.

That would definitely be considered hacking. I'm thinking your disagreement is coming from you having a very very poor understanding how webpages and the internet works.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Again. You've just proven that your biggest qualm with this situation is that you missed out before you could check.



Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Well I guess so. If the NRMP knows that many people had access they should have just left it in place. The damage is already done. The easiest and fairest thing would be to release the results in plain text on the R3 website. Still doesn't change in my mind that it was unethical to post a way to circumvent the match process.

 

[shenanigi]

Well then share the secret on how to find out where we matched so everyone can find out! Level the playing field. Whether it's one step or ten to find the information out, or even if you have to "decrypt" something, we've already opened Pandora's box.

What he is referring to is illegal. What happened to the ethics police?

 

[shenanigi]

Well I guess so. If the NRMP knows that many people had access they should have just left it in place. The damage is already done. The easiest and fairest thing would be to release the results in plain text on the R3 website. Still doesn't change in my mind that it was unethical to post a way to circumvent the match process.

No one circumvented anything. You have no idea how web browsers work.

 

[Thama]

No one circumvented anything. You have no idea how web browsers work.

And yet he claimed to be some sort of web developer. Hilarious.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

That would definitely be considered hacking. I'm thinking your disagreement is coming from you having a very very poor understanding how web pages and the internet works.

I know intimately how web pages, the internet, and programming works. I'm a programmer myself. But just because things were insecurely protected (simply hidden in plain-text inside the JavaScript) vs. strongly protected doesn't change the fact that people posted how to circumvent the system, no matter how sloppily implemented. The ethical dilemma is that we know we aren't supposed to know, but we spread the word around to friends and other people on how to find out. If the NRMP just screwed up and it showed up plain-as-day on the web page where we matched, well everyone would see that.

I know that rules should be broken if there is a benefit, we do it all the time in medicine. But that's for altruistic reasons. The process given here is for self-interest only, the only benefit to circumventing the R3 system was self-interest. We know we aren't supposed to know, but we peeked anyways. It's a small thing really, and I'm done with the arguments, the vitriol, the name calling and crap that's easy on an anonymous internet forum. So flame away and post your crybaby pics all you want, they're funny anyways! Peace.

 

[shenanigi]

I know intimately how web pages, the internet, and programming works. I'm a programmer myself. But just because things were insecurely protected (simply hidden in plain-text inside the JavaScript) vs. strongly protected doesn't change the fact that people posted how to circumvent the system, no matter how sloppily implemented. The ethical dilemma is that we know we aren't supposed to know, but we spread the word around to friends and other people on how to find out. If the NRMP just screwed up and it showed up plain-as-day on the web page where we matched, well everyone would see that.

I know that rules should be broken if there is a benefit, we do it all the time in medicine. But that's for altruistic reasons. The process given here is for self-interest only, the only benefit to circumventing the R3 system was self-interest. We know we aren't supposed to know, but we peeked anyways. It's a small thing really, and I'm done with the arguments, the vitriol, the name calling and crap that's easy on an anonymous internet forum. So flame away and post your crybaby pics all you want, they're funny anyways! Peace.

Do you have fun at parties? Rather, do other people have fun at parties when you are in attendance?

 

[Ronin786]

Well then share the secret on how to find out where we matched so everyone can find out! Level the playing field. Whether it's one step or ten to find the information out, or even if you have to "decrypt" something, we've already opened Pandora's box.

This is hilarious. If you can't tell the difference between actually hacking a page and opening a hidden page then you have bigger problems.

 

[Psychotic]

Again. You've just proven that your biggest qualm with this situation is that you missed out before you could check.



Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

You nailed it. He offers a perfect example of "situational ethics" - he missed out on the sneak peek, so he is a hardcore ethicist; but if he had gotten in on it, well that's a horse of a different color...nevermind, no ethics problem to see here, move along...

 

[Thama]

I know intimately how web pages, the internet, and programming works. I'm a programmer myself. But just because things were insecurely protected (simply hidden in plain-text inside the JavaScript) vs. strongly protected doesn't change the fact that people posted how to circumvent the system, no matter how sloppily implemented. The ethical dilemma is that we know we aren't supposed to know, but we spread the word around to friends and other people on how to find out. If the NRMP just screwed up and it showed up plain-as-day on the web page where we matched, well everyone would see that.

I know that rules should be broken if there is a benefit, we do it all the time in medicine. But that's for altruistic reasons. The process given here is for self-interest only, the only benefit to circumventing the R3 system was self-interest. We know we aren't supposed to know, but we peeked anyways. It's a small thing really, and I'm done with the arguments, the vitriol, the name calling and crap that's easy on an anonymous internet forum. So flame away and post your crybaby pics all you want, they're funny anyways! Peace.

Please refer us to an ethical system in which rules carry an inherent moral value.

Kthxbai

 

[Trogghunter]

Come on now! The real reason for knowing 3 extra days in advance is that it saves you like $20 on overnight/2d shipping, because you know you gotta roll into morning report wearing your new program's swag!

....And don't even mention turning coat on your school in the NCAA tourney for your residency, you Benedict Arnold, you.

Anyone possibly conflicting within the same conference?

 

[drcrispmd]

Congratulations to all who matched and enjoy this week!!! Don't get caught up it details like this. Enjoy the accomplishment!

 

[Broseph]

Maybe I am wrong but if you checked didn't you just tell YOUR computer to Display the information already being sent in a different manner? See no ethical problem there...

 

[windog]

It it possible to check the cache on an iPad?

 

[DrHiner]

I genuinely hope that all of you bottle up a little of this passion and vigor and use it for the care of your patients in a few months If so, I think everyone here is going to be a great doctor.

Congrats to everyone who matched! Friday is going to be a great and surprise-filled day, because if nothing else, we can share in the excitement of others as we all find out where our friends and future colleagues match -- information that is definitely still a surprise to us! Wishing you all the best!
Now hug it out, y'all.

 

[windog]

I think the ethics conundrum has been beat to death here. My question is whether the NRMP should legally have to tell everyone where they matched since so many people found out ahead of time?

 

[serialsevens]

I think the ethics conundrum has been beat to death here. My question is whether the NRMP should legally have to tell everyone where they matched since so many people found out ahead of time?

 

[shenanigi]

I think the ethics conundrum has been beat to death here. My question is whether the NRMP should legally have to tell everyone where they matched since so many people found out ahead of time?

Legally? What?

 

[elektroshok]

I think the ethics conundrum has been beat to death here. My question is whether the NRMP should legally have to tell everyone where they matched since so many people found out ahead of time?

You should definitely use whatever loan money you have left in the bank to file that suit




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[Winged Scapula]

Attending physician/SDN Admin posting that is SO much win!! ^^ Congrats to all!!!

Man I post like 5 minutes after the OP (post #13) and @gutonc gets the glory for being the "attending/SDN Admin" who posts. I get no respect.

 

[Trogghunter]

....and be sure to mention damages and unnecessary burden/ anxiety. Wait, did the nrmp cause burden by not coding properly or is the burden due to over-anxious students or did students burden the nrmp by making them deal with this? I happen to be an expert in bird law.

 

[Trogghunter]

This is a highlight reel of Charlie Kelly's law credentials.

 

[Moosemilk86]

Life is hard enough and you should take any break you can get. The people who saw their match results early weren't unethical, they were smart, they have a 4 day head start on all those riding a high horse. It's like getting the winning lotto numbers a day early.

Opportunities come few and far between. You should seize them when you can.

 

[Ronin786]

Serious question:

Someone mentioned that folks that got their match results 4 days earlier now have a leg up on finding apartments. Is that really true? Are there so little apartments next to programs that these 4 days are going to make a difference?

 

[Dr Lyss]

Serious question:

Someone mentioned that folks that got their match results 4 days earlier now have a leg up on finding apartments. Is that really true? Are there so little apartments next to programs that these 4 days are going to make a difference?

Not really. No one is going to make an offer on a place in these 4 days and most people need to hang on campus till end of May for graduation. Idk about you guys but I can't put an offer for an apartment 3 months in advance.

 

[IMPD]

Serious question:

Someone mentioned that folks that got their match results 4 days earlier now have a leg up on finding apartments. Is that really true? Are there so little apartments next to programs that these 4 days are going to make a difference?

No

 

[mvenus929]

Not really. No one is going to make an offer on a place in these 4 days and most people need to hang on campus till end of May for graduation. Idk about you guys but I can't put an offer for an apartment 3 months in advance.

Many people finish rotations early and scope out places during April and early May before graduation. In my town, it's not uncommon to sign leases in October, so waiting until end of May or a June move-in date would be rather difficult. Then again, most residents don't live in the same parts of town as students, so it might be easier to find housing for residents.

Bottom line: I don't think 3 months is way far in advance for signing a lease on an apartment.

 

[keindo]

Serious question:

Someone mentioned that folks that got their match results 4 days earlier now have a leg up on finding apartments. Is that really true? Are there so little apartments next to programs that these 4 days are going to make a difference?

I started contacting the research departments at my residency, and was able to get the leg up and join every lab. Literally every single lab. Sorry, other residents who find out on Friday the 21st just won't be able to do research, I guess.

 

[Dr Lyss]

Many people finish rotations early and scope out places during April and early May before graduation. In my town, it's not uncommon to sign leases in October, so waiting until end of May or a June move-in date would be rather difficult. Then again, most residents don't live in the same parts of town as students, so it might be easier to find housing for residents.

Bottom line: I don't think 3 months is way far in advance for signing a lease on an apartment.

Wait you're saying people sign leases in October to start in June? That's just crazy talk.

I live in NYC, one of the most competitive housing markets in the country, and a month is usually standard. Either way 4 days doesn't make much of a difference when you have from now till end of May to figure it out.

 

[mvenus929]

Wait you're saying people sign leases in October to start in June? That's just crazy talk.

I live in NYC, one of the most competitive housing markets in the country, and a month is usually standard. Either way 4 days doesn't make much of a difference when you have from now till end of May to figure it out.

Yeah, I decided not to renew my lease last year, and was really worried when I hadn't secured housing at this time last year, as most leases in my apartment complex were gone. Obviously, new interns and med students still manage to find housing when they look around this time, but it's more difficult.

But I agree that 4 days doesn't make that much difference.

 

[gutonc]

I think the ethics conundrum has been beat to death here. My question is whether the NRMP should legally have to tell everyone where they matched since so many people found out ahead of time?

They absolutely will. On Friday.

 

[keindo]

Yeah, I decided not to renew my lease last year, and was really worried when I hadn't secured housing at this time last year, as most leases in my apartment complex were gone. Obviously, new interns and med students still manage to find housing when they look around this time, but it's more difficult.

But I agree that 4 days doesn't make that much difference.

To be fair, I think stuff can move quickly *because* it's very competitive. In small towns it may be only a handful of people are moving in and out every year.

 

[Deferoxamine]

This thread is so epic. I did not know about this until just now.
Mods, please sticky this. Forever.

 

[gutonc]

To be fair, I think stuff can move quickly *because* it's very competitive. In small towns it may be only a handful of people are moving in and out every year.

Are you willing to pay the extra 4 months rent? Because things that go on the market now aren't for July occupancy, they're generally for next week. If you want it, you can have it, but you've got to pay now.

I wound up paying for an extra 6 weeks for the place I moved into because I didn't want to lose it. But that was certainly painful and I'd prefer not to have done so.

 

[windog]

Soo...basically the NRMP violated its OWN match policies. I seriously wonder about the security of everyone's personal information now too.