want to know where you matched?

[Burnt_toast]

Where you match is public info.

WHERE you match is public info if a program cares to look for you, NOT where you applied.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[illegallysmooth]

Have you ever actually burned a piece of toast? If so, what happened next?

 

[Burnt_toast]

Have you ever actually burned a piece of toast? If so, what happened next?

Haha, I'm sure I have, but I don't really eat toast. The handle is based off on something else. What about you - why are you ilegallysmooth?

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

No, it is not. If I CHOOSE to disclose where else I'm interviewing, that is MY choice. The NRMP has absolutely no right to allow that personal information be made available to anyone.

No one told anyone where you're interviewing. That's not what anyone said. What they said is that programs that ranked you can see where you MATCHED. That's entirely different. At least know what you're upset about before getting upset.

 

[IMPD]

I doubt PDs are going online and doing this.

Except the tech savvy ones. Then yeah, I bet they are.

This is expressly forbidden and in my orientation for how to interview candidates I stress that it should not be asked, and every year some of my interviewers still ask it. As for researching online, I have too many applicants and not enough time. If you're asked this sort of question, my advice is to give vague answers and glance at your watch.

For very small fellowships where everyone knows everyone, I could believe that faculty would simply call other faculty at the resident's home site. Much more direct.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

WHERE you match is public info if a program cares to look for you, NOT where you applied.

No one is revealing where you applied. What are you so bent out of shape about?

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Oh and btw-that is also a violation of the match - for them to ask.

Actually, it's not.

Recognize your right to confidentiality. Programs may ask about other programs to which you have or may apply, but they cannot require you to provide that information

http://www.nrmp.org/applicant-match-tips/

 

[Burnt_toast]

No one is revealing where you applied. What are you so bent out of shape about?

I think what happened is wrong, and questions the whole process. My thoughts. I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me, but I don't find it an acceptable thing.

 

[@JackShephard]

I think what happened is wrong, and questions the whole process. My thoughts. I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me, but I don't find it an acceptable thing.

Adjust to the situation. You'll be just fine.

 

[tyurq]

Actually, it's not.



http://www.nrmp.org/applicant-match-tips/

But it is a violation to ask an applicant anything related to how they plan to rank a program. By the NRMP releasing these results early, PDs were effectively able to see how candidates ranked programs before the official results are available. If 15 programs ranked me, there are now potentially 15 PDs that know whether I matched with them and, if not, where I matched. This is just another example of the NRMP violating their own policies.

 

[Burnt_toast]

But it is a violation to ask an applicant anything related to how they plan to rank a program. By the NRMP releasing these results early, PDs were effectively able to see how candidates ranked programs before the official results are available. The PD side of this is just another example of the NRMP violating their own policies.

This!

 

[Dumpstarrian]

-

 

[tyurq]

This!

But Burnt_toast... it's just a few days, chill! Surely anyone being investigated for a match violation can use this excuse to save their career, a few days later we would have known anyways!

 

[gutonc]

I think you are missing the point. It's not about the extra 4 days. It's that what happened that makes this unacceptable. Why are people spending thousands of dollars on a ridiculous process, a huge amount of anxiety, waiting for a month to find out results that can be done in probably a few minutes-hours, with the excuse that "we check them manually to ensure no errors" and yet- they make such a huge, monumental error as this? Does not make sense. This is not transparent, ethical, appropriate, and it calls in question the whole process. It demonstrates ineptitude and incompetence.

Nothing happened with the Match. Something happened with a crappy website programmer who coded the page incorrectly. There is an important difference here.

And trust me, you don't want to go back to the pre-Match days. That system sucked for everyone but the programs.

 

[Burnt_toast]

Why does the likelyhood of an applicant matching at a program influence rank for programs? This isn't the case from our end, IE an applicant should not rank programs higher just because they think they have a better chance of matching there.

Maybe not at your program, but it is frequently done by programs.

 

[Burnt_toast]

Nothing happened with the Match. Something happened with a crappy website programmer who coded the page incorrectly. There is an important difference here.

And trust me, you don't want to go back to the pre-Match days. That system sucked for everyone but the programs.

I respect your opinion, since you are one of my favorite posters, but I still disagree gutonc!

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

I think what happened is wrong, and questions the whole process. My thoughts. I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me, but I don't find it an acceptable thing.

But you're going off about programs knowing where you applied and interviewed. That didn't happen. No program knows where you applied or interviewed.

 

[tyurq]

Nothing happened with the Match. Something happened with a crappy website programmer who coded the page incorrectly. There is an important difference here..

Nothing happened with the Match? As stated on their website, the entire purpose of the match is to "establish a uniform date of appointment." Has that not been violated?

 

[Dumpstarrian]

-

 

[gutonc]

But it is a violation to ask an applicant anything related to how they plan to rank a program. By the NRMP releasing these results early, PDs were effectively able to see how candidates ranked programs before the official results are available. If 15 programs ranked me, there are now potentially 15 PDs that know whether I matched with them and, if not, where I matched. This is just another example of the NRMP violating their own policies.

Um...they're going to find that out anyway. No harm no foul. Programs find out not just who matched to their program but where everybody they ranked (not interviewed, but ranked) matched. You really need to chill the hell out. You're worked up over a lot of meaningless stuff.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

But it is a violation to ask an applicant anything related to how they plan to rank a program. By the NRMP releasing these results early, PDs were effectively able to see how candidates ranked programs before the official results are available. If 15 programs ranked me, there are now potentially 15 PDs that know whether I matched with them and, if not, where I matched. This is just another example of the NRMP violating their own policies.

How do you go from it being a violation for programs to ask an applicant where they plan to rank a program to it being a match violation for programs to know where an applicant matched?

 

[Burnt_toast]

Nothing happened with the Match? As stated on their website, the entire purpose of the match is to "establish a uniform date of appointment." Has that not been violated?

Right. In the same way that if for example a resident does something wrong once, or screws up big time one time, then their whole person is put into question, same here. Big screw up was made, so how can the integrity of this not be questioned?

 

[gutonc]

Nothing happened with the Match? As stated on their website, the entire purpose of the match is to "establish a uniform date of appointment." Has that not been violated?

The Match announcement? Maybe. The Match algorithm (which is what everybody's all worked up about)? No.

 

[tyurq]

I'm asking why a program would change their rank list based on how "likely" an applicant is to match there. Just as an ego thing for the program? "We matched in our top 20" ?

It is definitely an ego thing for programs. There appears to be a balance for some program directors between ranking applicants solely on merit and the desire to not go far down their rank lists. At almost every interview I went to, I was asked why I wanted to goto this program/area.

 

[gutonc]

I respect your opinion, since you are one of my favorite posters, but I still disagree gutonc!

You're welcome to disagree, but you're still wrong.

 

[tyurq]

Um...they're going to find that out anyway. No harm no foul. Programs find out not just who matched to their program but where everybody they ranked (not interviewed, but ranked) matched. You really need to chill the hell out. You're worked up over a lot of meaningless stuff.

Again, everyone keeps going back to this same "you/they will find out in a few days anyways" line. And as I have said before, I agree that it is not a big deal to wait a few days. The problem is that the NRMP will ruin someone's career over a few minutes, let alone a few days. So why is no one holding the NRMP to the same standards?

And if just a few days is no big deal, why were SDN administrators so quick to squash a thread asking for the list of unfilled programs? Did just those few days open SDN up to potential liability if someone posted the list?

 

[Dumpstarrian]

-

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Right. In the same way that if for example a resident does something wrong once, or screws up big time one time, then their whole person is put into question, same here. Big screw up was made, so how can the integrity of this not be questioned?

The integrity of the match or the validity of the match? Because if you're talking about validity, we have nothing to indicate the validity was compromised and I think that posing the question is going to open the door to a bunch of conspiracy theories and rumors on Friday. Ironically, if validity is questioned, t's the people who are currently too busy SOAPing to be involved in this thread who were affected most severely.

 

[Burnt_toast]

Again, everyone keeps going back to this same "you/they will find out in a few days anyways" line. And as I have said before, I agree that it is not a big deal to wait a few days. The problem is that the NRMP will ruin someone's career over a few minutes, let alone a few days. So why is no one holding the NRMP to the same standards?

That is the key to this! Agreed!

 

[windog]

Couple of points (venting):
1. Nothing confidential was leaked. Some people, if they logged in, could see where they matched, nothing else.
2. I, unfortunately, missed the window to check. I'm upset because I'm impatient, who isn't.
3. 4 days has no material impact on any of our lives, especially with regards to housing.
4. If you want to take "action," there is a petition on one of the earlier pages, sign it.
5. If you just want to vent, make it clear at the beginning of your post.

Link to petition???

 

[IMPD]

That is the key to this! Agreed!

The NRMP is a private not-for-profit. As such, they have a Board of Directors, at least one of whom I know. You can be sure that the Board will act in a proper manner to investigate and determine the correct action as is their job. Just because there isn't someone holding up a bloody head and pronouncing "justice" doesn't mean that things aren't happening.

 

[Dumpstarrian]

.

 

[satriani1]

Imagine the state of affairs the NRMP will face come Friday. I'm certain once the people who were unable to take advantage of the glitch see their results they are going to be raising hell about the integrity of the match. Especially if they didn't match into one of their top programs. Friday will be crazy. Guaranteed.

 

[keindo]

This thread is the embodiment of the internet (except missing some porn).

 

[Winged Scapula]

And if just a few days is no big deal, why were SDN administrators so quick to squash a thread asking for the list of unfilled programs? Did just those few days open SDN up to potential liability if someone posted the list?

Yes and more. In addition to potential liability for SDN and Coastal Research, posting may put users at risk for the same. Naive users don't realize that personal information which is captured during registration and when posting can be subpoenaed by interested parties (NRMP) and released by SDN/CRG (NB: see SDN and American Board of Surgery).

 

[NotAProgDirector]

One of the arguments on this thread is that the NRMP violated it's own rules, and hence should be held to the same standards as participants. This isn't quite fair. The violations that the NRMP lists all potentially subvert the match -- i.e. matching but deciding to go to another program, or programs trying to make deals with residents. The only thing you'd really get banned for is something that actually creates a problem in the match. This early data release, although unfortunate, doesn't affect the match in any way. In the same way, if a school mistakenly released it's match list early, it would break the rules (and the NRMP would be angry) but it doesn't change the validity of the results, so ultimately it wouldn't matter. One good point above is the concern that it's a "match violation" to release the unfilled program list. In the past (when there was the scramble), this was important because the NRMP wanted to make sure that people who participated in the match had first crack at open spots, and hence wanted to limit circulation of the list to people who did not participate. Now that there is SOAP, it really doesn't matter. You can only apply to programs via ERAS and only get a spot via SOAP, so having the list while not being registered with NRMP is useless. One could argue that keeping the list private protects programs from bad press, but presumably the full list comes out at some point. I would have a huge problem if the NRMP prosecuted someone for releasing the unfilled slot list now -- because it in no way affects the match/SOAP.

Another argument is that if the NRMP could make this error, how do we know that the match results aren't all screwed up due to other, unrelated errors. This is pure conspiracy theory. Many programs contact the residents who did not match with them (but were ranked high enough to do so). If any of those people ranked that program higher than their match (and wasn't in a couples match), then there is a match error. This has never happened. The only match error in my career was the AUA match several years ago, run by a completely different group.

A third argument is that now that the NRMP made this error, the "right" thing to do is simply release all the data. This is a very reasonable thought. One would need to balance the "fairness" of letting everyone know, vs the "rightness" of letting match day ceremonies proceed. One could argue that they should release all of the data, and then let people who want a match day surprise not look. There isn't any legal issue here, it's simply an issue of what's the "best" thing to do given the circumstances. Smart people will disagree on the right answer.

Whether the match is better than "some other system" including a free for all is a matter of debate. Changing the system would simply change the winners and losers. Whether the win/lose ratio is better with a match vs some other system is also a matter of debate. I think it is for the vast majority of candidates -- but that's simply my opinion

 

[Bildo]

Again, everyone keeps going back to this same "you/they will find out in a few days anyways" line. And as I have said before, I agree that it is not a big deal to wait a few days. The problem is that the NRMP will ruin someone's career over a few minutes, let alone a few days. So why is no one holding the NRMP to the same standards?

And if just a few days is no big deal, why were SDN administrators so quick to squash a thread asking for the list of unfilled programs? Did just those few days open SDN up to potential liability if someone posted the list?

Okay, let's think about this sensibly. Publishing a list of unfilled programs would have the potential to have outside influence act on the process. It would also be like someone publishing a list of all the unmatched applicants. Wouldn't be too nice to those people who weren't matched. As APD said above me, the violations are for things that allow for the subversion of the matching process, and now specifically, the SOAP process since the match has happened.

The match results, though, are set in stone. Nothing changes whether you knew Monday night or Friday morning regarding your position.

 

[serialsevens]

The most important question: why the hell hasn't this thread died yet? These arguments are beyond ridiculous and I'm surprised some regular posters here are wasting their time trying to engage in a reasonable conversation with completely, irrevocably unreasonable (and shockingly uninformed) people. The scariest, saddest thing is that those of you who are trying to initiate a trivial war against the NRMP and making some pretty horrifying judgement calls on what you post are actually going to be in charge of people's lives.

 

[satriani1]

Another argument is that if the NRMP could make this error, how do we know that the match results aren't all screwed up due to other, unrelated errors. This is pure conspiracy theory. Many programs contact the residents who did not match with them (but were ranked

A third argument is that now that the NRMP made this error, the "right" thing to do is simply release all the data. This is a very reasonable thought. One would need to balance the "fairness" of letting everyone know, vs the "rightness" of letting match day ceremonies proceed. One could argue that they should release all of the data, and then let people who want a match day surprise not look. There isn't any legal issue here, it's simply an issue of what's the "best" thing to do given the circumstances. Smart people will disagree on the right answer.

Most of the IMGs will not be participating in any sort of match ceremonies simply bc their schools don't have one. In my opinion, the news of the glitch and subsequent wait to receive results (bc I wasn't as fast as my classmates) has been cruel.

 

[Bildo]

The most important question: why the hell hasn't this thread died yet? These arguments are beyond ridiculous and I'm surprised some regular posters here are wasting their time trying to engage in a reasonable conversation with completely, irrevocably unreasonable (and shockingly uninformed) people.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

One of the arguments on this thread is that the NRMP violated it's own rules, and hence should be held to the same standards as participants. This isn't quite fair. The violations that the NRMP lists all potentially subvert the match -- i.e. matching but deciding to go to another program, or programs trying to make deals with residents. The only thing you'd really get banned for is something that actually creates a problem in the match. This early data release, although unfortunate, doesn't affect the match in any way. In the same way, if a school mistakenly released it's match list early, it would break the rules (and the NRMP would be angry) but it doesn't change the validity of the results, so ultimately it wouldn't matter. One good point above is the concern that it's a "match violation" to release the unfilled program list. In the past (when there was the scramble), this was important because the NRMP wanted to make sure that people who participated in the match had first crack at open spots, and hence wanted to limit circulation of the list to people who did not participate. Now that there is SOAP, it really doesn't matter. You can only apply to programs via ERAS and only get a spot via SOAP, so having the list while not being registered with NRMP is useless. One could argue that keeping the list private protects programs from bad press, but presumably the full list comes out at some point. I would have a huge problem if the NRMP prosecuted someone for releasing the unfilled slot list now -- because it in no way affects the match/SOAP.

Another argument is that if the NRMP could make this error, how do we know that the match results aren't all screwed up due to other, unrelated errors. This is pure conspiracy theory. Many programs contact the residents who did not match with them (but were ranked high enough to do so). If any of those people ranked that program higher than their match (and wasn't in a couples match), then there is a match error. This has never happened. The only match error in my career was the AUA match several years ago, run by a completely different group.

A third argument is that now that the NRMP made this error, the "right" thing to do is simply release all the data. This is a very reasonable thought. One would need to balance the "fairness" of letting everyone know, vs the "rightness" of letting match day ceremonies proceed. One could argue that they should release all of the data, and then let people who want a match day surprise not look. There isn't any legal issue here, it's simply an issue of what's the "best" thing to do given the circumstances. Smart people will disagree on the right answer.

Whether the match is better than "some other system" including a free for all is a matter of debate. Changing the system would simply change the winners and losers. Whether the win/lose ratio is better with a match vs some other system is also a matter of debate. I think it is for the vast majority of candidates -- but that's simply my opinion

Darn you and your rationality....

 

[NeedBeats]

OK aProgDirector has won this thread, wise words of experience.

OP great find thank you for sharing (too bad I missed it lol)

Those of you who saw the results, CONGRATS! I hope everyone got what they wanted. At the very least if not happy have some time to deal with it before all the friends/family ask about results.

Those that missed the boat (myself included) CHILL OUT, there is like 36 hours to go, 36! Lets stop. Good luck on Friday!

 

[@JackShephard]

One of the arguments on this thread is that the NRMP violated it's own rules, and hence should be held to the same standards as participants. This isn't quite fair. The violations that the NRMP lists all potentially subvert the match -- i.e. matching but deciding to go to another program, or programs trying to make deals with residents. The only thing you'd really get banned for is something that actually creates a problem in the match. This early data release, although unfortunate, doesn't affect the match in any way. In the same way, if a school mistakenly released it's match list early, it would break the rules (and the NRMP would be angry) but it doesn't change the validity of the results, so ultimately it wouldn't matter. One good point above is the concern that it's a "match violation" to release the unfilled program list. In the past (when there was the scramble), this was important because the NRMP wanted to make sure that people who participated in the match had first crack at open spots, and hence wanted to limit circulation of the list to people who did not participate. Now that there is SOAP, it really doesn't matter. You can only apply to programs via ERAS and only get a spot via SOAP, so having the list while not being registered with NRMP is useless. One could argue that keeping the list private protects programs from bad press, but presumably the full list comes out at some point. I would have a huge problem if the NRMP prosecuted someone for releasing the unfilled slot list now -- because it in no way affects the match/SOAP.

Another argument is that if the NRMP could make this error, how do we know that the match results aren't all screwed up due to other, unrelated errors. This is pure conspiracy theory. Many programs contact the residents who did not match with them (but were ranked high enough to do so). If any of those people ranked that program higher than their match (and wasn't in a couples match), then there is a match error. This has never happened. The only match error in my career was the AUA match several years ago, run by a completely different group.

A third argument is that now that the NRMP made this error, the "right" thing to do is simply release all the data. This is a very reasonable thought. One would need to balance the "fairness" of letting everyone know, vs the "rightness" of letting match day ceremonies proceed. One could argue that they should release all of the data, and then let people who want a match day surprise not look. There isn't any legal issue here, it's simply an issue of what's the "best" thing to do given the circumstances. Smart people will disagree on the right answer.

Whether the match is better than "some other system" including a free for all is a matter of debate. Changing the system would simply change the winners and losers. Whether the win/lose ratio is better with a match vs some other system is also a matter of debate. I think it is for the vast majority of candidates -- but that's simply my opinion

I agree with these thoughts.

This situation is one where you say, "let's move on".

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

The most important question: why the hell hasn't this thread died yet? These arguments are beyond ridiculous and I'm surprised some regular posters here are wasting their time trying to engage in a reasonable conversation with completely, irrevocably unreasonable (and shockingly uninformed) people. The scariest, saddest thing is that those of you who are trying to initiate a trivial war against the NRMP and making some pretty horrifying judgement calls on what you post are actually going to be in charge of people's lives.

Scary thing is some of them will become administrators themselves one day. And they will pedantically, methodically, make the lives of reasonable people a living hell.

 

[@JackShephard]

Scary thing is some of them will become administrators themselves one day. And they will pedantically, methodically, make the lives of reasonable people a living hell.

I think that's part of the job description.

 

[thyroidectomy]

Link to petition???

Post #175 on this thread.

 

[notinkansas]

On the other hand...it seems incredibly unlikely that (a) the programmers of this website would be so careless and (b) that this bug has never been found before and is only able to be exploited this year.

One word: Obamacare

 

[Gifted Hands]

OK aProgDirector has won this thread, wise words of experience.

OP great find thank you for sharing (too bad I missed it lol)

Those of you who saw the results, CONGRATS! I hope everyone got what they wanted. At the very least if not happy have some time to deal with it before all the friends/family ask about results.

Those that missed the boat (myself included) CHILL OUT, there is like 36 hours to go, 36! Lets stop. Good luck on Friday!

I peeked at the nrmp error... But I'm going to pretend like there's a chance it might not be real just in case. It's not real till I see it in ink.

 

[gutonc]

The most important question: why the hell hasn't this thread died yet?

Because trolls.

 

[rokshana]

Which is why they should just release everything at once. The whole wait 4 days and then get an envelop, that doesn't make sense.

It would be like getting an email that you passed a Step exam, then 4 days later getting an envelope with your score.

and that is exactly what happens when you get your board certification results…you get an email stating you have passed or not…then they mail you your results and score….though its more like 3 weeks and not 4 days...