Wanted: Some Perspective

[AprilShowers]

Alright, I'll admit I've only made one response to a thread on this forum and it was to get lurkers to introduce themselves. I read a lot of posts. I guess I just never say anything

Well, now I'm starting my own thread. I've been away from this forum for quite some time since I joined because I've been having a crisis about the veterinary profession of late. I've always been sure I wanted to be a veterinarian and have worked very hard to achieve that dream. I'm a Senior in undergrad and the time has come for me to apply this summer/fall. The past 6 months, however, I've had some definite misgivings. 1) I'm not a fan of 10+ hour days or spending all day on my feet like many of the veterinarians I've known. 2) I want to make more than the average veterinarian in my area: ~$60K. At least $70K is preferred. Simply put: Salary is important to me and I want to be compensated for those expensive 4 years of school. 3) In my experience I've found I don't like small animal practice or large/food animal. That severely limits my options. 4) I'm not entirely sure about another 4 years of school.

In general, I've found veterinary medicine to be incredibly stress-inducing, requiring long hours for little pay. Am I simply disillusioned or tired of school? I would like to know if anyone else has felt this way. I've considered other options in human medicine, working in a lab, but I just can't seem to get excited about, just interested.

Oh and I almost forgot to mention:
GPA: ~3.4 (I transferred schools Soph yr, so I'm not entirely sure.)
GRE: 1220
Volunteer/Shadowing hrs: ~1200
All prereqs complete.

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[deleted266066]

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[Niri]

Oh and I personally don't know any vets that work 10+ hour work days. They definitely exist, but I'm not sure that's the norm. Try checking out maybe smaller clinics, as they tend to have less patient traffic.

I do know vets, even in solo small animal practice that work a 10-12 hour day once or twice/ week. Granted that day is not entirely spent on one's feet, but it is still a long day. Also this vet that does work 2 long days, also works 2 7-hr days and a half-day on Saturdays. So it does balance out.

 

[BomberCanoe]

There's definitely specialization like shoe said (but beware of the additional time and money it will take to specialize). When you say large/food animal, are you including equine? That's also a "basic" (non specialized) option. There is also exotic/zoo like shoe mention. Are you completely against research work? There can be more money in that, sometimes- whether it's working for a business (such as novartis, or in a more physiology instead of product oriented project).

Have you only worked at large clinics, or ones that are small and owned by the head vet? Corporate vet jobs, such as with VCA, are more 9-5 jobs (the one I worked at the vet worked 8-6 4 days a week, and 1 or 2 saturdays (8-12, and on call the rest of the weekend) a month). These typically start out paying lower, but you can get to the point where you're almost paid on comission (and I believe several of the vets I worked with are easily over the 70k+ mark). I don't know what I can say as far as always being on your feet. From my perspective, you're either at a desk or a station doing research/office work, or you're on your feet. Or you're not doing anything, because you have no clients (and therefore, aren't earning any money).

As far as stats, you seem to be about average. I know you didn't really ask for an assessment as to how strong of a candidate you were, but there it is. What might also be worth mentioning is how these hours are broken down (what sort of practices, how involved you were/job duties, etc).

Have you actually worked a job in the vet industry? Sometimes there can be a huge difference between volunteering at the zoo/museum/shelter, or shadowing a vet, and what you'd actually see. Yes, just about any professional career can be stress inducing. But this isn't quite as important if it is what you love. I know the head vet at my clinic probably threatened to quit almost every other day. But he still came in the next day, and he still enjoyed practicing medicine.

As far as being wary of another 4 years, is this just finals talking? Have you been able to relax, and wind down (or are you taking summer classes?). With your salary goals, I'd imagine at least some further education would be required (I'm also assuming you don't want to necessarily go into a trade), as a bachelor's is almost like a GED now a days. I guess you just need to really examine yourself. Are you heading towards vet because you've told yourself that's what you want to do? Are you more motivated by tangible, or more abstract rewards (money, vs loving what you do, etc). Like shoe said, if you decide you want to do something else, that's not failing. Failing is spending your life doing something that makes you miserable, because you never stopped to ask why you were doing it. And with an undergrad degree (in a bio related major?), you've still got a stepping stone that can lead to any number of different careers.

 

[breenie]

As ThEvilShoe said, there are alternatives to just small/LA general practice. You have to be realistic about those options, though. Government jobs, lab animal vet jobs, and zoo vet jobs are often very competitive, and sometimes to be an competitive applicant you need additional schooling (ie, do a residency and get boarded).

Unless you have experience with these fields, and are fairly sure going into school that you want to end up there instead of in practice, I feel you might need to reconsider vet school. I'm not trying to be a debbie downer or be a big meanie, but if you have no interest in a specific field and dislike the two largest post-grad options... what is it that interests you in vet med? If you're passionate about animals and animal health, there are still alternatives that are worth considering that may not require as much schooling or the demanding hours you're talking about.

I personally know vets who work the horrible 10+ days you talk about, and I think it's sort of a crappy way to live. Not everyone runs their clinic like this, though. There are probably going to be longer, stressful days in any job, but I think if you are rigorous and picky about where you work, you can make sure you are treated well. Also, don't start your own practice from scratch unless you want to lose all your hair and work 25 hrs/day for the first year or two.

TheEvilShoe also mentioned how salary is relative. $70k is going to go a lot further here in Wisco than in NYC. You say salary is important, but I guess I am more curious about your expectations for standard of living. Is salary important in that you want to have a big house and an discretionary income wherever you live, or do you just want the security of knowing you can pay back your loans without too much strain?

I think you just need to think about what interests you in vet med, and what doesn't interest you. Maybe vet med isn't right for you, but maybe you're just getting cold feed.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Sounds to me like you already know the answer to the question and are just afraid of moving on.

The things you want don't seem to line up with the profession. IMHO it would be crazy to proceed in that state of mind. Look for other career options and if you ultimately realize that vet med really was for you there is always a chance to come back when you might actually appreciate it more.

 

[zeebra44]

Sounds to me like you already know the answer to the question and are just afraid of moving on.

The things you want don't seem to line up with the profession. IMHO it would be crazy to proceed in that state of mind. Look for other career options and if you ultimately realize that vet med really was for you there is always a chance to come back when you might actually appreciate it more.

Agreed. The job requires long hours and extreme dedication, and if you're not interested in small or large animal, then why exactly do you want to be a vet in the first place? What attracts you to the career? Not to sound harsh, I realize that there are other specialties in the field, but small/large animal is where it starts, especially to get through the schooling.

 

[jpeterman13]

Sounds to me like you already know the answer to the question and are just afraid of moving on.

The things you want don't seem to line up with the profession. IMHO it would be crazy to proceed in that state of mind. Look for other career options and if you ultimately realize that vet med really was for you there is always a chance to come back when you might actually appreciate it more.

agreed. however, you'll have a lot of competition if you're looking for a high paying job with low hours and little higher education requirements. And in terms of specialties, in order to specialize, am I incorrect in saying that you will need to work long hours with little pay for awhile in order to get the point of specializing?

 

[zeebra44]

agreed. however, you'll have a lot of competition if you're looking for a high paying job with low hours and little higher education requirements. And in terms of specialties, in order to specialize, am I incorrect in saying that you will need to work long hours with little pay for awhile in order to get the point of specializing?

You are very correct. One intern I spoke with told me that she worked 90 hour weeks and slept overnight at the hospital sometimes (she was a surgical intern at the AMC in NYC). Aka: You need to be dedicated.

 

[david594]

I've always been sure I wanted to be a veterinarian and have worked very hard to achieve that dream. I'm a Senior in undergrad and the time has come for me to apply this summer/fall. The past 6 months, however, I've had some definite misgivings. 1) I'm not a fan of 10+ hour days or spending all day on my feet like many of the veterinarians I've known. 2) I want to make more than the average veterinarian in my area: ~$60K. At least $70K is preferred. Simply put: Salary is important to me and I want to be compensated for those expensive 4 years of school. 3) In my experience I've found I don't like small animal practice or large/food animal. That severely limits my options. 4) I'm not entirely sure about another 4 years of school.

So you've always wanted to be a veterinarian, but you really don't like it now that you have actually gotten to see what its like?

You've essentially told us that you have no interest in doing what 90% of the veterinarians out there do. What exactly do you see yourself doing as a veterinarian?

 

[StartingoverVet]

however, you'll have a lot of competition if you're looking for a high paying job with low hours and little higher education requirements.

Politician comes to mind.

 

[chordy4]

Agree with what pretty much everyone has said...however, if you don't want to give up entirely on the profession/are still unsure, just because you are a senior doesn't mean you have to apply this year.

There is always the option of taking a year off between finishing undergrad and applying, maybe getting some more diverse experiences if you don't have them to find out if there ARE other areas of vet med that interest you aside from large/small animal. Or also getting a job in some other area and see if that peaks your interest more than vet med.

That being said, if you have the mindset of not wanting to work long hours, I don't really think that jives well with the ved med world. You'll definitely have longer days during your 4th year in clinics, and even students who aren't going into a specialty field (eg just sticking with large or small animals), a lot of them still end up doing an internship. Since you aren't really interested in those areas, with other specialties that might grant you shorter days in the long run (derm, optho etc), those are ones that would require internships/residencies, and I'm pretty sure you'd still have long days during that time. Just my two cents..

 

[goatvet]

Your pre-reqs are done so why not take a year off and play around with some different vet specialties--try lab work or get an internship at a zoo. Also, look into some other careers that might interest you and see if you can do some shadowing there too. As a non-trad I took a year off after college before I started my post-bacc and I loved it--tried some different things in the veterinary field to make sure my decision to pursue vet med was solid and well-informed. I also really enjoyed having a year off from classes--yes I had to work a crappy waitressing job--but it was nice just to take a breather and I felt very refreshed when I went back to school to do my post-bacc. In the grand scheme of your life a year is a very short amount of time so give yourself a break!

 

[AprilShowers]

This is gonna be a loooonng response! Sorry in advance You've all given a lot to consider and I want to answer some of your questions in order to get better overall feedback. Thank you all so much for your comments!

You ask some important questions. Yes, I am including equine practice in large animal/food animal. It's not that I hate horses, cows, sheep, etc. Honestly I don't like the danger of working with horses, and I'm a petite woman so food animal is basically out for me, even if I did enjoy it.

I do like exotics very much so, but unfortunately from my experience there's generally not much opportunity in it. I'd love nothing more than to work with birds, rabbits, reptiles, guinea pigs, sugar gliders, wildlife, etc all day!

I'm not against research, but variety is very important to me. That is the main reason I do not want to be a small animal clinician. I've volunteered/worked at a small animal clinic for about 4 years during the summers. It gets extremely monotonous and I don't like seeing only spays, neuters, and vaccines all day. I know there's more to it, but that's the bulk of what they do at the clinic. It's a larger clinic with about 8-10 veterinarians, open long hours, and very stressful to work at due to being a walk-in clinic for everything except surgeries. You never know what you're going to get everyday except for what's in the surgery book.

Again, I don't hate large and small animal; I just wouldn't want to treat either of those groups for a living. I don't enjoy either of them enough to do so.

As for finals speaking, I'm not sure. My summer started at the beginning of May and I've been in a zoo internship since Mid May. I intern 40 hrs a week with 2 days off. I do feel like I want to be done with school, but maybe I just need a year off. I've had to study my butt off in school like most pre-vets and many of my prereqs did not come easy for me. Granted, my school is not an easy one as it is a higher level private school.

Yes, I love veterinary medicine, and I want to enjoy what I do. However, I don't want my job to be my life. I want a real life outside of work.

I love veterinary medicine because it a has a wide spread effect internationally. By helping animals, you help humans whether it is a pet or livestock, emotionally, financially, and physically. The physical aspect is very important as the threat of zoonotic diseases increases every day because of biological terrorism/warfare or simply emerging diseases such as H1N1. It's truly fascinating and exciting to me how a veterinarian can be on the frontline of both human and veterinary medicine through public health and pathology.

So you've always wanted to be a veterinarian, but you really don't like it now that you have actually gotten to see what its like?

You've essentially told us that you have no interest in doing what 90% of the veterinarians out there do. What exactly do you see yourself doing as a veterinarian?

david594, I've known for some time what it is to a veterinarian. As I said, I've been working/volunteering at a clinic since I was a Junior in high school. I'm finally just starting to rethink what I want from a job and panic a little since grad school is now so close, having just completed my Jr year. I've always been interested in pathology and public health, so I had considered combining it with a DVM. From what I've heard, there certainly is a need.

I hope this gives everyone a little more perspective where I'm coming from.

 

[HandD42]

It is so funny because when I think about being a vet I literally think, "Hey, someone is going to pay me to work on their horse?!!!! Holy crap that is awesome." So maybe I'll have tremendous amounts of debt, make 40k a year and work 7 days a week. This literally is my dream job. Hands down end of story.

If you are not 110% passionate about this career the debt, the extra schooling, the hours and the simple reality of the job will not be worth it imho.

Also if you just want a job working with animals there are many other options besides being a vet. Animal behaviorist, researcher, barn manager, zoo keeper, many spring to mind and they wouldn't all necessarily need four more years of education.

If you aren't sure this is for you spend some time in another career (maybe even a non science one). I spent 2 years in condominium construction only to realize that science really was for me. I was also super burnt out after undergrad and needed a break. The time away was priceless.

 

[katryn]

I definitely suggest taking a year off, and exploring other careers and simply other parts of veterinary medicine. If there is a vet school close to you, set up an appointment with the undergrad liaison. Not only could you get some good counseling about different jobs in the profession that are not so ordinary but they might could even put you in contact with the proper people to shadow/volunteer/get hired with. There also may be someone in the Ag department of your college (if they have one) that could do the same if you're not near a vet school.

It sounds much more to me like you still enjoy the principles of vet med, and it's just a matter of finding out where you fit in all the stuff out there you can do with it. If you haven't really had a chance to research different things you can do with vet med check out:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=626756&highlight=job+discription
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=625572&highlight=the+good+the+bad+the+ugly

Taking a year or two to figure out what you wanna do is definitely a good way to improve your application if you do decide to stick with it. It's also a really good way to find out that you want to move on to something else without wasting butt tons of money on vet school.

 

[zeebra44]

Again, I don't hate large and small animal; I just wouldn't want to treat either of those groups for a living. I don't enjoy either of them enough to do so.

I'm sorry, but I just can't wrap my mind around this..you love veterinary medicine, but you don't enjoy either of these animal groups enough to treat them? I suggest exploring your options in public health, minus the DVM. I just don't see how you'd get any enjoyment out of vet school...especially clinicals. The simple fact is, the lives of these animals depend on YOU, and if you're not dedicated enough to take care of them, please leave the job to someone else.

May I also add that if you do apply to vet school and land an interview, the adcoms will be able to pick up on this hesitance.

 

[twelvetigers]

Two things... one, being a small, petite woman does NOT exclude you from doing large animal work. Two, I'd like to go into pathology... it's an additional three year residency after one year of clinical work (though you can sometimes skip that) but it's definitely possible. Do some digging on possible fields for yourself!

 

[chris03333]

Two, I'd like to go into pathology... it's an additional three year residency after one year of clinical work (though you can sometimes skip that) but it's definitely possible.

You might wanna add another 2-4 years for the PhD (very, very few vet pathologists do not get a PhD, or at least a masters)

 

[breenie]

It's not that I hate horses, cows, sheep, etc. Honestly I don't like the danger of working with horses, and I'm a petite woman so food animal is basically out for me, even if I did enjoy it.

I am going to call some shenanigans here. Yes, working with horses is dangerous. They can kick you in the head and kill you. Working with 6lb cats is dangerous because they can bite you on the hand and your joints can get infected and you can lose your hand. Animals are unpredictable creatures, even domesticated. Danger is part of this profession.

Petite women can't be food animal vets? Excuse me, but that's insulting. Brains, strategy and creativity can make up for seventy pounds and a few inches that don't really matter that much. Arms too short to do a DA surgery on a big cow? Make your incision lower so you're not reaching around as much. A 1000lb horse can beat the snot out of a man just as easily as it can be the snot out of a woman.

Frankly, I'm a little shocked that someone who claims to have such extensive knowledge of the veterinary profession holds such an ignorant, sexist opinion.

I'm not against research, but variety is very important to me. That is the main reason I do not want to be a small animal clinician. I've volunteered/worked at a small animal clinic for about 4 years during the summers. It gets extremely monotonous and I don't like seeing only spays, neuters, and vaccines all day. I know there's more to it, but that's the bulk of what they do at the clinic. It's a larger clinic with about 8-10 veterinarians, open long hours, and very stressful to work at due to being a walk-in clinic for everything except surgeries. You never know what you're going to get everyday except for what's in the surgery book.

So... you must said variety is important and small animal clinics are monotonous all day, yet you never know what is going to come in that day? This makes no sense to me.

Again, I don't hate large and small animal; I just wouldn't want to treat either of those groups for a living. I don't enjoy either of them enough to do so.

Someone already addressed this... if you don't like 90% of domestic animals... why vet med?

 

[fishbones]

All this talk of specialization gets me wondering: does anyone know roughly what percentage of vets specialize?

Re: AprilShowers
Maybe you could try to shadow, or at least conduct an informational interview with a vet specializing in preventive medicine, or some other specialty that looks interesting to you? Here's a list of the recognized specialties:

http://www.avma.org/press/profession/specialties.asp

From what I've seen though, if you become any sort of professional (medical, engineer, etc.), work will eat up the vast majority of your time. Whether or not you have a life outside of work is entirely up to what you prioritize.

 

[twelvetigers]

You might wanna add another 2-4 years for the PhD (very, very few vet pathologists do not get a PhD, or at least a masters)

Really? Out of the six (clinical) pathologists I know, only two have a PhD. One works for Antech, one for Idexx, and the rest for universities. I think I'd like to work for a university. The ones here teach a rotation for the fourth years and read what comes in. What would make a PhD necessary?

 

[moosenanny]

I'd like to re-emphasize that even if you become a vet in a non-SA/LA field, you will have still experienced four full years of working primarily with these species throughout school. In my interview Davis specifically asked me if I was going to be okay learning almost exclusively about these core species, even though I want to ultimately work with wildlife. Ask yourself this same question!

 

[jtom]

I am not exactly sure how many vets eventually specialize.

I would definetly consider taking a year off to explore other areas of veternary medicine or at least apply this year and look at them before your notified next year by schools.

I am somewhat similar to you in that I was very apprehensive about the salaries for veterinarians compared to their tuition costs. I would try to apply to cheaper schools since that is the case with you. If you get in to a cheaper school it might make you feel more comfortable with your decision. As for hours, I think most vets work similar hours to other careers, it might just not be a standard 9-5 M-F type of job though.

I do not agree that if you are a short female that you cannot do any food animal. I currently work with a short girl who specializes in cattle and we will be going to to pregnancy checks on 250 livestock this month. She simply brings a stool to stand on and is totally fine with it.

I think you need to decide for yourself if you truly want to become a veterinarian because school is expensive and four years. You seem to have many reservations concerning the field and I think vetmed is the type of field where you need to be sure you want to do it before committing. I think someone like you should never go into vetmed if you think about it this way.

 

[Coquette22]

I'm going to have to echo what other people said about petite women and large animals. Your opinion that small women can handle large animals is just not true. A small horse weighs 1000 lbs, draft horses can go up to (and over) 2000 lbs. With someone that big, it doesn't really matter if the vet is 100 lbs or 250 lbs. The horse will still win in terms of brute strength. Which is why vet restraint for horses and large animals doesn't focus on brute strength. A proper lip twitch or ear twitch can do wonders to subdue a horse, with minimal strength needed.

I also find it hard to believe that an 8-10 vet practice is dull. I've worked in a 6 vet practice, and things were rarely dull. Oh sure, there was the odd afternoon where it was just puppy vaccines, but those still had cuddly puppies! Even spays and neuters weren't always dull, since I rarely found two surgeries to be exactly alike, no matter how routine they were.

I haven't waffled on my choice to be a vet, but when I initially applied to vet school, I told my family and friends that it'd be no big deal if I didn't get in, and I'd finish my BA and apply to med school. When I was rejected from AVC, I realized just how BADLY I wanted to be a vet. It's my passion and nothing else could replace that.

However, since you're stathing these points, it's obvious that you do not truly want to be in this career, and yes, you need to take a step back and reconsider. It's too tough a road to take if you don't absolutely love it.

 

[Whyevernot55]

I agree with most of what has been said. If you don't ABSOLUTELY LOVE vet med, you're going to be unhappy.

Take a year off. Get some more experience in the field, and some more life experience. See where you are next summer.

 

[david594]

I agree with most of what has been said. If you don't ABSOLUTELY LOVE vet med, you're going to be unhappy.

Take a year off. Get some more experience in the field, and some more life experience. See where you are next summer.

I don't think you have to absolutely love vet med. But I do think you are wasting your time applying before you have a clear and realistic vision for your future career in veterinary medicine.

 

[BarnyardPunch]

Yes to what everyone else said. If after shadowing for 1,200, you can't find a part of vet med you think you'd like, it very well might not be for you. I think everyone here has had one or two of those reservations, but not all of them at once. You could also just be burned out in general. I've gotten that way before and couldn't think of one good thing about working for anyone, anywhere at any time.

Just to point out, any job you take out of college pretty much is doing to be lower paying and especially if you're salaried with benefits, you'll be working a ton of hours. Frankly, unless you're graduating as a software developer from a great school with good skills or another in-demand tech field, there really aren't any jobs you'll be making "good" money at without an advanced degree and/or many years of experience.

With regard to food animal--you can end up spending a lot of your time inspecting and testing meat, slaughterhouses and auctions with very little actual interaction with the protein cubes, er, animals, themselves. Could be an option, though I do believe you'd have to use your feet.

 

[Maschka1]

Just thought I would throw in my two cents here. I quit my job as a SA tech to investigate other, higher paying, job opportunities. I thought that what I wanted was money over emotional fulfillment. I ended up working in real estate, I made lots more money then a vet would, but I also worked a lot longer days then 10 hours. (In sales you are ALWAYS working- phone's start ringing at 7 am and dont stop until 10 pm-7 days a week- you can NEVER get away from it). I was even working on my wedding day, Christmas, thanksgiving, Easter, you name it. Anyhow, I spent 3 years working real estate and then another in a human medical practice. I was absolutely miserable at both jobs. It wasnt what I wanted to do and strengthened my resolve to go to vet school. I suggest you take some time and investigate other career paths or options. Vet school will still be here if you decide it really is what you want. In my experience, however, the harsh realty of what life really is like after college is much different then what I expected, but I had to experience it to understand that.
Good Luck!

 

[zeebra44]

Just thought I would throw in my two cents here. I quit my job as a SA tech to investigate other, higher paying, job opportunities. I thought that what I wanted was money over emotional fulfillment. I ended up working in real estate, I made lots more money then a vet would, but I also worked a lot longer days then 10 hours. (In sales you are ALWAYS working- phone's start ringing at 7 am and dont stop until 10 pm-7 days a week- you can NEVER get away from it). I was even working on my wedding day, Christmas, thanksgiving, Easter, you name it. Anyhow, I spent 3 years working real estate and then another in a human medical practice. I was absolutely miserable at both jobs. It wasnt what I wanted to do and strengthened my resolve to go to vet school. I suggest you take some time and investigate other career paths or options. Vet school will still be here if you decide it really is what you want. In my experience, however, the harsh realty of what life really is like after college is much different then what I expected, but I had to experience it to understand that.
Good Luck!

Thanks for pointing out that money isn't absolutely everything.

 

[chris03333]

Really? Out of the six (clinical) pathologists I know, only two have a PhD. One works for Antech, one for Idexx, and the rest for universities. I think I'd like to work for a university. The ones here teach a rotation for the fourth years and read what comes in. What would make a PhD necessary?

Ask them if they have an MS, I bet they do.

 

[that redhead]

I think everyone else has said it better than me. I think if you aren't excited about working long hard days and not necessarily making much, maybe vet med isn't for you? Have you explored other career options?

 

[AprilShowers]

Thank you everyone for your responses. You've all posed some very good points and given me a lot to consider. If I do choose vetmed you can be sure that it will only be because I absolutely love it. I will take my time considering all my options in order to make the right choice for me.

 

[zeebra44]

Thank you everyone for your responses. You've all posed some very good points and given me a lot to consider. If I do choose vetmed you can be sure that it will only be because I absolutely love it. I will take my time considering all my options in order to make the right choice for me.

 

[sarebear3]

I know exactly what you mean, however it took me attempting to get in this year (and my money!) to see that it wasn't for me. I always wanted to be a vet as well, but I think with me I changed. My boyfriends parents are both vets, and he has had experience with that type of life... not the career side the family side. That is one of the main reasons why I have changed my mind. I am a big family person, and unlike past years my goals in life have changed. Instead of a crazy full time job, that is really a life style, I find myself wanting family, some spare time, and a job that wont be "My Life"