Washington D.C. IM programs

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tigerdmb

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I am from Louisiana and I am interviewing at GTown, GW, and Washington Hospital over the next week. I need to do my residency here due to the location and family needs.

I have researched all 3, but I wanted to know about the D.C. area and the reputations of these 3 programs. If anyone can give any postive/negative feedback on these programs and how they compare it would be greatly appreciated!

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Go to scutwork.com should give you good idea where things stand. Surprisingly, DC is not a powerhouse rep when it comes to medicine. Georgetown continues to struggle financially but that may be correcting itself with new management. I lived in DC for 4 years. Great town and I'm sure you learn to be great doc at any of the programs, so really state your case for family needs and I'm sure you will match. GL
 
APACHE3 said:
Go to scutwork.com should give you good idea where things stand. Surprisingly, DC is not a powerhouse rep when it comes to medicine. Georgetown continues to struggle financially but that may be correcting itself with new management. I lived in DC for 4 years. Great town and I'm sure you learn to be great doc at any of the programs, so really state your case for family needs and I'm sure you will match. GL

actually georgetown turned a net profit this year. no red ink.
 
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profit =happy attendings=happy residents! 😀
 
from best to worst... (internal medicine)

gwu
whc
gtown

gwu and whc are very good, gwu has a brand new hospital and GREAT benefits. gtown is not so good / old buildings / infrastructure / fragmented.

just my opinion
 
ramonaquimby said:
from best to worst... (internal medicine)

gwu
whc
gtown

gwu and whc are very good, gwu has a brand new hospital and GREAT benefits. gtown is not so good / old buildings / infrastructure / fragmented.

just my opinion


I have heard many different things up to this point...

As far as GW, many say they are malignant and the residents are not very unified or cohesive and the FMG's kind of bring down the program (they just kind of tolerate each other and their jobs...not too happy).

WHC...the cardiology presence is amazing there, but they are still a "community hospital with university affiliation" so I have heard that if you want to match in cards outside of the D.C area that WHC would not be a good call.

GTown...lots of rumors about "political and financial problems" but I would really like to find out more about this (some kind of specifics). The financial issues don't seem that bad anymore because they were just bought by MedStar, so there is plenty of money flowing in now. I know the cardiology is basically gone from there...but the GTown name still holds up.

Tell me what you think...much appreciated!!
 
the above post couldn't be further from the truth about GW. I personally love GW's program. I have yet to find a single hospital that offers as much patient diversity as GW- you see everything from the homeless guy off of the street, to the vice president. Not to mention the mix of setting between GW, Fairfax (which is an amazing community hospital) and the VA. GW is not a malignant program in any sense. There is good comradery between the residents and the attendings. The residents are a very fun and cohesive group- even between the classes (I go out with them on a weekly basis). Yes, there are FMGs- but I don't think that takes away from the experience- and it's very difficult to even figure out who is a FMG vs. someone who was AOA in their class.

I personally did not like WHC during my interivew day. The PD spent a good 30 min with me- telling me how his program is better than GW. I'm not impressed with the residents that I've met. WHC is a great hospital- but I think the residents are shielded from a great deal of patients.

I don't know much about GT. Only thing I've heard is that they have great teaching. I think that they are starting to come out of their financial difficulties. Still true is that they don't have a Cards dept. and many attendings have left GT for GW.
 
phinicky said:
the above post couldn't be further from the truth about GW. I personally love GW's program. I have yet to find a single hospital that offers as much patient diversity as GW- you see everything from the homeless guy off of the street, to the vice president. Not to mention the mix of setting between GW, Fairfax (which is an amazing community hospital) and the VA. GW is not a malignant program in any sense. There is good comradery between the residents and the attendings. The residents are a very fun and cohesive group- even between the classes (I go out with them on a weekly basis). Yes, there are FMGs- but I don't think that takes away from the experience- and it's very difficult to even figure out who is a FMG vs. someone who was AOA in their class.

I personally did not like WHC during my interivew day. The PD spent a good 30 min with me- telling me how his program is better than GW. I'm not impressed with the residents that I've met. WHC is a great hospital- but I think the residents are shielded from a great deal of patients.

I don't know much about GT. Only thing I've heard is that they have great teaching. I think that they are starting to come out of their financial difficulties. Still true is that they don't have a Cards dept. and many attendings have left GT for GW.


Thanks so much for your feedback! I'm torn between GW and GT, especially because of the cards situation.
 
Hey D.C. people!! Need some information on GTown!!
 
tigerdmb said:
Hey D.C. people!! Need some information on GTown!!

Tiger, I PM'ed you. If anyone else wants my scoop on GTown, I'm a 4th year med student here. You can PM me.
 
I was in residency at GW for EM, have to say the IM program is kinda malignant, nurses will go over your head and call the attendings if they disagree w/ your decision, post call attendings will hammer you (ie Dr V****ese). Ask the residents about the "Gold" team specifically. While on ccu rotation as a senior i admitted 22 (yes twenty two) patients, majority w/ a story like "pt has hx of HTN, and got nauseated at a dinner at the white house." Even though it's the ER who admits, best believe the hospital itself (and the DOM) depends on weak insured ruleouts to prosper, as it recieves many uninsured from SE D.C. b/c it's hospital closed. The place is attending run, and you will be expected to be a subordinate (ie rounding with the hospitalist in the am, and the private at times convenient for him/her at random times during the day). The IM program is not all that good in my opinion. (and yes, i did a prelim year at different univ hosp so i have some experience)

WHC is considered the best in dc, G-Town is second b/c of it's name (and it is getting better clinically and financially). GW third. Howard doesn't get mentioned all that often, don't have any comment on their program.

Hope this is helpful, good luck. Consider programs in baltimore too....
 
Mojetter seems to have an axe to grind. Many reputable people (including my PD) would place GWU as the best of the IM residency programs in the Washington, DC area. I heard all of this stuff and I applied to many big cities including Washington and interviewed at the Washington programs. What mojetter has to say as a former EM resident is the complete opposite of what I saw.

I would place Washington hospital center at the bottom of the Washington IM list. I would say that in order of quality, the Washington IM programs from best to worst are: GWU, Georgetown, and then Washington Hospital Center.

MAYBE some people might say that Georgetown is better, I would say that Georgetown and GWU are very close to being equa with GW just slightly better. WHC is definitely below both of them.

During the interview day at GWU, the applicants are told about the Gold Team which is basically equivalent to a cardiac rotation. However, the house staff informed the applicants that GWU has put into effect (or will start soon) a completely seperate chest pain service so that all of the rule out MI cases will go the chest pain service which is staffed by PA and not the house staff.

As far as the malignancy issue, the PD at GWU is quite possibly the nicest PD that you will ever meet on the interview trail. I actually ended up rounding with a medicine team at GWU as part of a second look thing because I was not too sure about the city. I also rounded with a Georgetown medicine team because all interviewees spend an 1 hour rounding with a ward or ICU team during the georgetown interview day. I did not detect any malignancy at all at GWU or at Georgetown. Neither are malignant. Residents seem very happy at both places.

As far as demographics, GWU sees everyone from homeless people to top government officials. GW hospital has been termed "the president's own."
The demograhics are probably the most diverse in the area.

Regarding finances, GW has a pretty new hospital and seems to be further expanding. Georgetown seems to be financially stable as well and the PD there told us (ie. the interviewees) that the hospital made a $5 million profit this year and the financial trouble sounds like a thing of the past.

Regarding FMGs, (if you even care) there are very few at Georgetown and GWU and more at WHC. I actually read both Georgetown and GW's "interns and where they went to school" lists. As far as I know, GW has zero FMGs in the current intern class and Georgetown only has a couple. I did not see WHC's list but just by visiting there I saw that there more FMGs there.

Everyone knows that (interestingly) there is no totally powerhouse IM program in a fairly decent sized city like Washington. All of the other IM residency programs (and hospitals overall) in Washington seem to be stable, but GW is very strong and is still on the offensive in terms of aggressively expanding its services and adding to its strengths.

An interesting fact that I noticed during my interviews in DC is that it seems like a whole bunch of Georgetown attendings have jumped ship and left to take positions at GW.

Having interviewed at the various DC program, in my rank list, GWU will figure the most prominently among the Washington programs.
 
inositide said:
Mojetter seems to have an axe to grind. Many reputable people (including my PD) would place GWU as the best of the IM residency programs in the Washington, DC area. I heard all of this stuff and I applied to many big cities including Washington and interviewed at the Washington programs. What mojetter has to say as a former EM resident is the complete opposite of what I saw.

I would place Washington hospital center at the bottom of the Washington IM list. I would say that in order of quality, the Washington IM programs from best to worst are: GWU, Georgetown, and then Washington Hospital Center.

MAYBE some people might say that Georgetown is better, I would say that Georgetown and GWU are very close to being equa with GW just slightly better. WHC is definitely below both of them.

During the interview day at GWU, the applicants are told about the Gold Team which is basically equivalent to a cardiac rotation. However, the house staff informed the applicants that GWU has put into effect (or will start soon) a completely seperate chest pain service so that all of the rule out MI cases will go the chest pain service which is staffed by PA and not the house staff.

As far as the malignancy issue, the PD at GWU is quite possibly the nicest PD that you will ever meet on the interview trail. I actually ended up rounding with a medicine team at GWU as part of a second look thing because I was not too sure about the city. I also rounded with a Georgetown medicine team because all interviewees spend an 1 hour rounding with a ward or ICU team during the georgetown interview day. I did not detect any malignancy at all at GWU or at Georgetown. Neither are malignant. Residents seem very happy at both places.

As far as demographics, GWU sees everyone from homeless people to top government officials. GW hospital has been termed "the president's own."
The demograhics are probably the most diverse in the area.

Regarding finances, GW has a pretty new hospital and seems to be further expanding. Georgetown seems to be financially stable as well and the PD there told us (ie. the interviewees) that the hospital made a $5 million profit this year and the financial trouble sounds like a thing of the past.

Regarding FMGs, (if you even care) there are very few at Georgetown and GWU and more at WHC. I actually read both Georgetown and GW's "interns and where they went to school" lists. As far as I know, GW has zero FMGs in the current intern class and Georgetown only has a couple. I did not see WHC's list but just by visiting there I saw that there more FMGs there.

Everyone knows that (interestingly) there is no totally powerhouse IM program in a fairly decent sized city like Washington. All of the other IM residency programs (and hospitals overall) in Washington seem to be stable, but GW is very strong and is still on the offensive in terms of aggressively expanding its services and adding to its strengths.

An interesting fact that I noticed during my interviews in DC is that it seems like a whole bunch of Georgetown attendings have jumped ship and left to take positions at GW.

Having interviewed at the various DC program, in my rank list, GWU will figure the most prominently among the Washington programs.


Looks like you like GW. Good for you. I don't have the energy to fully reply to your post, and to each his/her own but since you called me out specifically, i will reply to the salient issues you raised.

When you identify problems at institutions (like Gold team) ask yourself why it takes a program so long to fix it, and why would they spend $200000 to $400000 yearly (or more) to staff PA's when residents have to do it for $0. And there is no way GW is expanding. where in foggy bottom is there room to build? The site of the old hospital is sold/not available.

Just a note, dont think a friendly smiling PD on interview day is in any way indicitive of what your experience is going to be like. And rounding with a team for an hour is the equivalent of having dinner with your boss, no true issues are ever going to emerge. Do a rotation as a subI, then tell me how GT is. and so far as a $5mil profit, most academic institutions spend more than $5mil on laundry, that's not a prosperous profit. Jessica Simpson probably made 5-10 mil from victoria's secret alone last year. an academic power makes $100's of millions. GW is still penny pitching and strapped for cash. It is an academic institutuion OWNED by an HMO done a few years ago b/c it too was looking at closing otherwise. Please don't be seduced by interview day BS.

The consensus from fellowship programs is:
WHC>GT>GW

For anyone who feels different, good for you. Just my opinion. BTW, i wound up leaving GW EM and finished IM at Johns Hopkins, if that makes me more credible to anyone.
 
actually GW has just opened a new ambulatory surgery and endoscopy center a few months ago. This center is located just 1-2 blocks from the the main GW hospital in the famous "K Street power corridor." This ambulatory center has 5 large, new, and modern O.R. suites and it also has a similar number of new fully equipped endoscopy suites. This will allow GW to expand it's surgical subspecialties practices and, relevant for the medicine people, it allows for further expansion of the medicine subspecialty fellowship programs with more cases and patients. One example is that the GI fellowship program will be adding more fellow spots. The GW medicine chairman has said that he has recently overseen a significant expansion of the faculty size and seeks to expand it further, and he is making arrangements to add 1-2 new fellow spots in most of the medicine subspecialties every year. (ie. GI, cards, invasive cards, pulm/ccm, onc, etc etc)

people can differ on this, but i would say that in DC, GW looks like the best bet. when you visit programs to interview, asking the medicine chair or the PD what their plans are on how to move forward is a good thing thing to ask.
 
Any new thoughts on the IM situation in D.C.?
 
don't know currently
I interviewed for medicine at GW and Georgetown for 2004 intern class, decided not to go to either. Was somewhat disappointed. GWU has a nicer hospital, gave everyone free PDA's. I wasn't impressed with the commmitment to medicine (or lack thereof) of the residents at GWU, though they did seem happy. They showed a graph of how they had gone from a low board passing rate to very high within the past few years - I guess it was kind of concerning to me that it had EVER been low. The attendings seemed pretty cool, at least at the interview. Main draw was the facilities/hospital and the location in Washington DC. I was a bit concerned they seemed kind of inbred in terms of who they have in their fellowship programs, as well. The program director did seem like she was really benign, compared with most others I have known.

Georgetown I really really wanted to like, but it was clear at that time that there was visible unhappiness amount the house staff. The hospital was old and kind of run down,not very computerized. The morning report consisted of one of the chief residents pimping the house staff in an aggressive manner. I definitely noticed it, even coming from a highpowered med school where people tended to be on the aggressive side. I felt that Georgetown was a bit more "academic" and the residents seemed more academically oriented and more interested in doing fellowships, etc. than those at GWU. The PD was young and seemed really cool. He didn't seem malignant, but really you never know on an interview. I did get the impression it was a malignant program, as did others on the interview that day. They DO have night float, though, which might be nice if you have a family...

Both GWU and Georgetown had IMG's, but GWU had more. This sometimes is an indication of a weaker residency, not necessarily b/c of the IMGs, but it shows that the medicine residency is probably less sought after.

I know nothing of WHC, except they have a good cardiology division.
 
I can't help but to notice these posts mentioning FMGs/IMGs vs. strong/weak programs. What about Mount Sinai? I looked it up on US News (the magazine) and it was placed pretty high on the list not to mention this hospital is very IMGs/FMGs friendly.
 
and it's very difficult to even figure out who is a FMG vs. someone who was AOA in their class.

The accent is a dead give away, actually...haha. I joke, I joke.
 
Im a Georgetown resident now - I dont know what it was like before I came but the program is nowhere near malignant now. Intern year sucked like it was supposed to, but Ive been very happy here. Our PD is always like the way he was in my interview, very genuine and advocates for us. He came out and played softball with us last weekend and the week before that a bunch of us ran the army ten miler. Georgetown is definitely very academic but I like that about the program, and residents are happy.
 
Recent Gtown med school grad here. The IM PD is great, absolutely non-malignant, and seems to really want to emphasize academic medicine while being down to earth with students and residents. The teaching faculty in IM is still very good, though perhaps not what it used to be since most patients are staffed by hospitalists now. Other complaints I've heard are too much oncology and of course not enough cards.
 
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