Wayne State University part 02

[imable24]

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I thought the shelf exam was something students take during the 3rd year. But reading the allopathic forum it seems like some students have shelf exams during 1st year-biochem shelfs,anatomy shelfs etc? Does Wayne State use shelf exams during 1st year? And are those exams part of your grade? And just to clarify a shelf exam is the same thing as an NBME exam right?

 

[cfdavid]

I thought the shelf exam was something students take during the 3rd year. But reading the allopathic forum it seems like some students have shelf exams during 1st year-biochem shelfs,anatomy shelfs etc? Does Wayne State use shelf exams during 1st year? And are those exams part of your grade? And just to clarify a shelf exam is the same thing as an NBME exam right?

No, at Wayne (at least in 1st year), we don't take shelf exams. Not sure about the clinical years. I'm starting MSII in another 10 days, but I haven't heard past 2nd years really mention "shelf" exams either. Who knows.

 

[oldjeeps]

I thought the shelf exam was something students take during the 3rd year. But reading the allopathic forum it seems like some students have shelf exams during 1st year-biochem shelfs,anatomy shelfs etc? Does Wayne State use shelf exams during 1st year? And are those exams part of your grade? And just to clarify a shelf exam is the same thing as an NBME exam right?

Yes; shelf exam = NBME subject exam.

At Wayne these are only dealt with during the clinical (MS3 & 4) years. During the clinical years they do make up a significant portion of your grade for each rotation.

 

[oldjeeps]

What are the best books to buy for MS1?

I have heard and said many good things about having a copy of Rohen that you can use during anatomy. It is most useful for quizzing yourself and for study when you can't get into/don't want to go to the anatomy lab.

 

[oldjeeps]

so i heard that are resident/internss also fill out evaluations for us? Is this true? So the people who write evals for us are the attending, senior resident, felllow?, and interns??? I know we were told who does these, but I some managed to not be paying attention each time they went over this...

Granted this is WSU so things are always subject to change from year-to-year or even month-to-month; but what I recall hearing for most rotations was that evals are filled out by attendings, senior residents, junior residents, and fellows -- but not by interns, because they are 'too close to still being med students themselves'.
However, I seem to recall Peds being an exception to that trend. Additionally, if you have very limited contact with the attending then the odds are very good that they'll be speaking with the interns, etc prior to completing the evaluation.

If you really feel the need to know you could always check in the clerkship syllabus/description or ask the clerkship director.

 

[dancinjenn]

Jenn, that is exactly how I felt a year ago.

My impression was that most people went through a series of emotions when they got their scores:
#1: relief that they passed and wouldn't have to repeat it; followed by
#2: frustration that it wasn't a little bit higher.

What I went through on getting my scores:
#1: relief that I passed and wouldn't have to take it again
#2: frustration that my score was about [----] that far away from my goal (that space being a very small amt)
#3: relief that I passed and wouldn't have to take it again
#4: Happy dance

 

[fun8stuff]

Granted this is WSU so things are always subject to change from year-to-year or even month-to-month; but what I recall hearing for most rotations was that evals are filled out by attendings, senior residents, junior residents, and fellows -- but not by interns, because they are 'too close to still being med students themselves'.
However, I seem to recall Peds being an exception to that trend. Additionally, if you have very limited contact with the attending then the odds are very good that they'll be speaking with the interns, etc prior to completing the evaluation.

If you really feel the need to know you could always check in the clerkship syllabus/description or ask the clerkship director.

well that is what i was thinking as well- that interns were still way too new to be able to properly judge us..

the rohen atlas was very good. it basically shows you what a properly dissected cadaver looks like. it is easier to identify structures on the not so perfectly student dissected cadavers if you know what the structures are supposeto look like...

 

[cfdavid]

I have heard and said many good things about having a copy of Rohen that you can use during anatomy. It is most useful for quizzing yourself and for study when you can't get into/don't want to go to the anatomy lab.

I totally agree. Netters Atlas and Rohen are essential. I didn't really use Rohen until later in the course, but should have used it better. I spent a lot of time in the lab at first (came in on Sats). But, I know a lot of people that used Rohen as a "remote" lab. It's well worth it, but Netters is essential as well.

 

[tybalt]

Yea! I am officially a complete 3rd year student -- no repeat of step 1 for me 🙂

 

[inked_caduceus]

Big upps to all the fellow passers! We're not afraid of the big bad step I.

What are y'all doing for your electives? My three choices were Emergency Psychiatry, Addiction Medicine and Emergency Toxicology. I'm thinking either ER or Internal medicine at this second, so hopefully those will be helpful for emergency. Figure I can take the hospitalist/critical care electives in 4th year when I actually know something.

There's no shelf for elective months, right?

As for 1st year, go and look at Moore's "clinically oriented anatomy" in the library before each exam. It's a favourite of Dr. Ireland's, the guy who runs the course. It's especially good for head and neck.

 

[finallyMS3]

Big upps to all the fellow passers! We're not afraid of the big bad step I.

What are y'all doing for your electives? My three choices were Emergency Psychiatry, Addiction Medicine and Emergency Toxicology. I'm thinking either ER or Internal medicine at this second, so hopefully those will be helpful for emergency. Figure I can take the hospitalist/critical care electives in 4th year when I actually know something.

There's no shelf for elective months, right?

As for 1st year, go and look at Moore's "clinically oriented anatomy" in the library before each exam. It's a favourite of Dr. Ireland's, the guy who runs the course. It's especially good for head and neck.

i am interested in too many areas... i would like to have my elective be my number 1 interest... just haven't decided what that is yet. maybe rad onc...

 

[fun8stuff]

i am interested in too many areas... i would like to have my elective be my number 1 interest... just haven't decided what that is yet. maybe rad onc...

ha, i was just thinking the same thing.

 

[oldjeeps]

What are y'all doing for your electives? My three choices were Emergency Psychiatry, Addiction Medicine and Emergency Toxicology. I'm thinking either ER or Internal medicine at this second, so hopefully those will be helpful for emergency. Figure I can take the hospitalist/critical care electives in 4th year when I actually know something.

There's no shelf for elective months, right?

Evaluations for the electives depend on which ones you do.
From what I heard MOST don't have a shelf.
However, some use a departmental exam (as a learning/teaching experience vs for credit). Read the course description (if you can find it) and see what they use to evaluate you (clinical evaluations/presentations/exams/etc).

FWIW I talked to some folks that did the tox. rotation and they seemed to have enjoyed it (and maybe even learned something).
I did Radiology and might have learned something and certainly did enjoy the hours.

 

[oldjeeps]

Any of my fellow MS4s on here do their step 2CS, yet?
Or for those of you that have it all planned out; what are you finding is the best deal on a hotel near the testing site?

Based on the information at http://www.usmle.org/step2/Step2CS/Guides/ChicagoGuide.htm it would appear that some of the hotels offer special rates, but it looks like you have to call to get them🙁.
And I’m feeling otherwise occupied at the moment and can’t get motivated to call all of the hotels for the various rates – maybe I’ll have more motivation for that after I get done with step 2CK.

 

[katrinadams9]

It's official... Wayne screws us all again with a 13% tuition increase. Higher than MSU, UM, EMU, and WMU. Craptastic.

 

[deowolf04]

It's official... Wayne screws us all again with a 13% tuition increase. Higher than MSU, UM, EMU, and WMU. Craptastic.

Of course they screwed us over, again, and again, and again. And they had "no idea" that their incrases were affecting us so. I bet they turn a blind eye to how fat their pocket books get from our tuition each year, or simply just don't care. That, or our administration is dumb as a post about advocating for us.

At least we are getting out of here after this year and they can't F*** us over anymore. Remember when we came in and tuition was only in the $18K range? I hope they don't bother expecting us to "donate" any more money after we leave. And I certainly hope that every last one of us laughs in their ears when we get that phone call. They shouldn't be too surprised.

 

[fun8stuff]

so does anyone recall when we are suppose to give out the "performance of medical student" cards that they gave us during year 3 orientation? they have ratings for duty, honesty, integrity, altruism, respect, and accountability.... i was just going through some papers and found them.. i had forgotten all about them.

 

[deowolf04]

so does anyone recall when we are suppose to give out the "performance of medical student" cards that they gave us during year 3 orientation? they have ratings for duty, honesty, integrity, altruism, respect, and accountability.... i was just going through some papers and found them.. i had forgotten all about them.

Anytime during your third year. They will keep nagging at you about them all year long.

 

[fun8stuff]

Anytime during your third year. They will keep nagging at you about them all year long.

well then i will forget about until told otherwise!

 

[oldjeeps]

well then i will forget about until told otherwise!

The other option is to get them dealt with ASAP and then you won't be stressing about them at the end of the year. You'll find that certain rotations are a bit easier to get them filled out, depending on the amount of patient/classmate/ancillary staff/attending contact you have - which in my experience varies from rotation to rotation.

 

[deowolf04]

The other option is to get them dealt with ASAP and then you won't be stressing about them at the end of the year. You'll find that certain rotations are a bit easier to get them filled out, depending on the amount of patient/classmate/ancillary staff/attending contact you have - which in my experience varies from rotation to rotation.

Just remember that the only thing those are used for (other than the admin making you do one more annoying requirement) is for your MSPE for ERAS. The MSPE is like the Dean's letter that the advisors write for you that compiles all the comments of your rotations with those cards. Trust me; those cards play only a very minor role, so don't stress about them too much.

 

[fun8stuff]

Just remember that the only thing those are used for (other than the admin making you do one more annoying requirement) is for your MSPE for ERAS. The MSPE is like the Dean's letter that the advisors write for you that compiles all the comments of your rotations with those cards. Trust me; those cards play only a very minor role, so don't stress about them too much.

so who do we gives these to again? "patient/classmate/ancillary staff/attendings"??? i have no memory of them going over these during orientation... but prob just another thing i have forgotten

 

[deowolf04]

To all the new first year students who are finding this thread:

Let me be the first to welcome you to med school. Congratulations, you made it. Just be ready to work harder than you ever worked before.

On that note, let me warn you about a couple things:
1. In the "win-win" MSU deal where they are coming to Detroit, you guys will be the losers of that deal as they are going to be entering their clinical years while you are in the hospitals too. Things are going to get crowded, and your clinical education will suffer. I can't remember if they are starting this year or next, so you might be fourth years by the time they show up on the wards.
2. Tuition has been going through the roof the last few years. When we started, it was about $18-19K per year. If I understood Tyler's chart, tuition is now going up to about the $27K range per year, and double that for the out of state students. Wayne has gone from mid-pack in tuition to 8th as of last year (among public schools) and is likely to break the top 5 after this latest hike.
3. I'd like you to know that we have done the best we could to avoid these things (especially our senate president, who has done a very good job), but the administration and the powers that be outside the school have ignored us and screwed us over anyway. Therefore, if you need the term for being screwed over around here, the term passed down from class to class is getting "Wayned."

 

[deowolf04]

so who do we gives these to again? "patient/classmate/ancillary staff/attendings"??? i have no memory of them going over these during orientation... but prob just another thing i have forgotten

Patients: pick one of your patients that has been in the hospital more than just a couple days and you get to know a little bit.
Classmates: I found peds and surg to be the best opportunities there since there are multiple students per team.
Ancillary staff: Look for nurse practicioners, PAs, etc. that know the residents and work with your teams on a regular basis
Attendings: just pick a couple you have gotten to know a little bit

Note: there are no resident cards, but they are your primary teachers (as you now know) and also talk to the attendings on how to evaluate you. I recommend getting to know them best and just get the cards done with whomever.

 

[dancinjenn]

😀 "Way Cool" Moment brought to you by me:

I got to do an LP today!!! It was on an anesthetized patient, but it was amazing. And to make it even better, I got it on the first try and it was clean! I was on a high for the rest of the day considering it was the first real procedure I have ever done.

End of "Way Cool" moment...

If anybody else has a moment please share!

 

[coffeebythelake]

For MS-1, will there be past exams available through the professors or student organizations to study from? Its still orientation but I'm starting to get freaked out about the 8-5 anatomy/histo exams.

 

[dancinjenn]

For MS-1, will there be past exams available through the professors or student organizations to study from? Its still orientation but I'm starting to get freaked out about the 8-5 anatomy/histo exams.

Here is the site for the old exam files:

http://www.med.wayne.edu/elab/exams_old/old_exams.htm

just remember that these exams are minimum 10 years old, due to the protected exam issues. Also, don't start freaking out about exams yet. You will have plenty of time to study and get the exams done. Most people don't take the whole time for the written portions of the exam. Everybody takes the same amount of time for the practical - but that is because of the set-up.

 

[fun8stuff]

For MS-1, will there be past exams available through the professors or student organizations to study from? Its still orientation but I'm starting to get freaked out about the 8-5 anatomy/histo exams.

you will be fine... just try and study consistently.

 

[tybalt]

you will be fine... just try and study consistently.

i agree with this. also remember to sleep well. for every exam that i had a less than desireable score, i also happened to procrastinate studying and was forced to go with not enough sleep... one would think I would notice that the events always occurred together. Hmm.

 

[fun8stuff]

i agree with this. also remember to sleep well. for every exam that i had a less than desireable score, i also happened to procrastinate studying and was forced to go with not enough sleep... one would think I would notice that the events always occurred together. Hmm.

how's your rotation going???

 

[Thrice]

Congrats on your LP Jen! I already hugged you, but hey, you can never get to much love for a clean LP.

To bad no champagne....

 

[inked_caduceus]

I totally saw a girl with VATER syndrome. Not as cool as a champagne tap, but still fun. 🙂

PS: First year - go to at least one class party (the friday/saturday of orientation week is generally a good bet) but if it isn't your cup of tea, realize most parties are pretty much the same. Except for the Halloween party. That's always a fun time. 🙂

 

[tybalt]

how's your rotation going???

Amazing! I didn't realize how much I was going to love OB/Gyn... or surgery! I always assumed I would go into internal med, but I have many other things to consider now 🙂

How is Ped's?

 

[fun8stuff]

Amazing! I didn't realize how much I was going to love OB/Gyn... or surgery! I always assumed I would go into internal med, but I have many other things to consider now 🙂

How is Ped's?

good. i like it more than i thought i would. i def like kids more than adults... i think they are better patients. at least compared to my continuity clinic experience... do internists refer out a lot??? i have seen a lot of stuff in my ped's rotations that i consider to be cool.. a large variety of diseases... digeorge, precocious puberty, FAS & GH deficiency, hyperinsulinism, sickle cell gallor, burkitt's, hodgkin's, desmoplastic small round cell tumor, wilm's/hemihypertrophy, neuroblastoma, ewings sarcoma, ALL, AML, hemophilia, polycystic ovarian disease, medulloblastoma, pineal tumor, chancroid and prob more ...all within last 2 weeks!

 

[oldjeeps]

Let’s start a list of some of the websites that have been helpful. I’ll get the ball rolling:
- Wayne’s old exams (as already listed by Jen)
http://www.med.wayne.edu/elab/exams_old/old_exams.htm

- The bookstore:
http://webmedbooks.com/mmbc/default.aspx?reset=true

- Medical Mnemonics database
http://www.medicalmnemonics.com/

- Practice pathology questions/exams
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/webpath.html

- Other sources for books
http://www.ebay.com
http://www.amazon.com

What can the rest of you add to this list?

 

[fun8stuff]

Let's start a list of some of the websites that have been helpful. I'll get the ball rolling:
- Wayne's old exams (as already listed by Jen)
http://www.med.wayne.edu/elab/exams_old/old_exams.htm

- The bookstore:
http://webmedbooks.com/mmbc/default.aspx?reset=true

- Medical Mnemonics database
http://www.medicalmnemonics.com/

- Practice pathology questions/exams
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/webpath.html

- Other sources for books
http://www.ebay.com
http://www.amazon.com
http://www.campusbooks.com
http://www.allbookstores.com/
www.ecampus.com

-Apartments
http://www.homepagepro.com/detroit/
http://www.rent.com

-Streaming Video Speed Control
http://www.enounce.com/products.shtml

What can the rest of you add to this list?

 

[tybalt]

On Sunday, I was scrubbed into a cesarean and the resident was late so the attending told me to move and stand right across from him. Then the attending said okay, now cut here. I was like... uhhh...me? He said "yeah! now cut". So I got to do the first incision down to the rectus. Then he let me help sew at the end. Way awesome! WooHoo!

 

[UMP]

Are anatomy practical exams multiple choice or fill-in-the blank?

 

[fun8stuff]

Are anatomy practical exams multiple choice or fill-in-the blank?

multiple-choice, thank God! as far as i remember, every exam has been multiple choice.

 

[supa76]

multiple-choice, thank God! as far as i remember, every exam has been multiple choice.

yep that's what i've been hearing - all multiple choice all the time. yay no more spelling!

 

[fun8stuff]

yep that's what i've been hearing - all multiple choice all the time. yay no more spelling!

answer by recognition.. yay!

 

[oldjeeps]

Are anatomy practical exams multiple choice or fill-in-the blank?

Just imagine how much longer it would take them to post scores if tests were fill-in-the blank. They would actually have to read 300+ answer sheets and try to figure out what everyone was trying to say (spelling, hand writing, etc).

Probably what would happen is they would decide that they had to hire a few more people to be 'graders' - leading to a tuition hike to fund their salaries. And then those 'graders' in prime examples of wayne efficiency would manage to "misplace" some of the exams and you would have to retake a bunch of exams after you had already forgotten the material.

 

[UMP]

Just imagine how much longer it would take them to post scores if tests were fill-in-the blank. They would actually have to read 300+ answer sheets and try to figure out what everyone was trying to say (spelling, hand writing, etc).

Probably what would happen is they would decide that they had to hire a few more people to be 'graders' - leading to a tuition hike to fund their salaries. And then those 'graders' in prime examples of wayne efficiency would manage to "misplace" some of the exams and you would have to retake a bunch of exams after you had already forgotten the material.

wayne sucks... i get it 🙄

😉

seriously though... thanks for all the help guys 👍

 

[katrinadams9]

So I learned two things today:

1. It is possible to get a grade changed after all. If your evals don't make sense, make an appointment and go over them with the course director. They do make mistakes calculating our grades sometimes. Dr. Levine just made my day!

2. I was not the only one screwed on my peds grade. I'm so glad I'm not going into peds 'cuz there's no way I'd want to deal with Dr. Friday again!!!! She makes it next to impossible to honor peds.... grrrr.

 

[fun8stuff]

So I learned two things today:

1. It is possible to get a grade changed after all. If your evals don't make sense, make an appointment and go over them with the course director. They do make mistakes calculating our grades sometimes. Dr. Levine just made my day!

2. I was not the only one screwed on my peds grade. I'm so glad I'm not going into peds 'cuz there's no way I'd want to deal with Dr. Friday again!!!! She makes it next to impossible to honor peds.... grrrr.

how did you get screwed with your ped's grade?

any tips for the osce??

 

[oldjeeps]

any tips for the osce??

Accept the fact that you (and everyone else) will have to remediate at least one of the stations - which is usually not a big deal and doesn't take too long.

It seems like Dr. F. likes to view the peds osce as teaching experiences.

 

[ksav]

Do anyone of you know a way to export the school calendar from the (public) file in Microsoft Outlook to a personal one?

I'm looking preferably to Google Calendar or iCal, but I'd even just go with putting it in the personal Microsoft Outlook calendar.

 

[dancinjenn]

On Sunday, I was scrubbed into a cesarean and the resident was late so the attending told me to move and stand right across from him. Then the attending said okay, now cut here. I was like... uhhh...me? He said "yeah! now cut". So I got to do the first incision down to the rectus. Then he let me help sew at the end. Way awesome! WooHoo!

Congrats on your (by my own personal term) "way cool" moment! Hopefully others will post theirs as well so we can see that even as 3rd years we get to DO something besides H&P's.

 

[fun8stuff]

Do anyone of you know a way to export the school calendar from the (public) file in Microsoft Outlook to a personal one?

I'm looking preferably to Google Calendar or iCal, but I'd even just go with putting it in the personal Microsoft Outlook calendar.

i was able to do this with my pda. there is a program for the pda that you get from wsu.campusmobility.com (cm_evals?) that allowed me to sync the school schedule to my pda, then i synced my pda to outlook. then i went within outlook and exported the calendar in iCal format, and then uploaded to google calendar.

maybe there is a program for a computer that would allow you to do it.. not sure.

for speedy access you can always just save the direct link to the calendar.. i.e. https://owa.med.wayne.edu/public/Academic%20and Student Programs/Class Schedule Year II 2007-2008/
..not as nice to have multiple calendars, but it is not that uncommon to have your family and work calendars separate (but imho not the best).

 

[imable24]

When I check my outlook via outlook web access(owa.med.wayne.edu) on my laptop the class schedule appears an hour earlier. I tried to configure my the Outlook on my computer, Outlook 2003 to gain access to my med school email and it doesn't work. I downloaded the SOM certificate and I make sure I'm connected but when I login it doesn't work.

All I really want to do is to be able to seem my class schedule at the correct time. I thought maybe using Outlook 2003 instead of outlook web access would correct the problem, but I can't even login in to my med school email via Outlook 2003. I emailed the helpdesk but they haven't been much help.