Wayne State University vs. Georgetown

[Juice313]

Wayne State University
Pros:

• In Detroit (home for me), which I love as a city, and also very close to family
• Many opportunities to work with underserved populations/participate in clinical care
• Several hospitals to rotate with in the area
• Seems like a good "environment" to be in (doesn't seem uber-competitive)
• True pass/fail
• Switching to systems-based curriculum
• MUCH cheaper tuition (approximately 1/2 that of Georgetown, ~$30,000) and cost of living

Cons:

• I have heard from both current students AND Wayne State faculty that the school/administration can be highly disorganized to a pretty bad degree
• New curriculum, compounded with systemic disorganization, could be a mess as an already stressed med student
• Lottery system for which hospital your rotations are at - some of them not great "teaching hospitals"
• Unsure of name recognition outside of Michigan/midwest in the case that I want to go elsewhere for residency
• Unsure of research opportunities - may want to do summer research elsewhere
• HUGE class size (almost 300)
• When class size is scaled down 1:1 with Georgetown, doesn't match as well into competitive specialtie
• Lower avg Step 1 scores than Georgetown (but may reflect on students admitted and not as much the school)

Georgetown
Pros:

• In D.C., which I absolutely love (no comment about politicians currently there)
• I like the "Cura Personalis" approach to patient care - "healing the whole person"
• Many opportunities for healthcare advocacy, service to underserved
• New curriculum integrating lecture with clinical exposure ("Journeys Curriculum")
• Prestige/name recognition
• Close proximity to NIH, which I would like to do a summer research fellowship with
• Great healthcare network for rotations
• Relatively smaller class size compared to Wayne
• Impressive match list into competitive specialties
• Higher average Step 1 scores that Wayne (but may reflect on students admitted and not as much the school)

Cons:

• Very expensive - tuition ~2x as much as Wayne State (~$60,000) and cost of living will also be much higher (this is by no means my biggest con, but it is a con nonetheless)
• Relatively new curriculum - may still be working out kinks
• Seems to be a more competitive environment than Wayne
• Only pass/fail during preclinical years, and is honors/high pass/pass/fail during clinical rotations
• Seems more competitive, but also didn't get great gauge of student community feel due to limited interactions at interview day
• Outdated facilities

Summary: While Wayne State is home for me, would be a lot cheaper, and is a great school, I have heard a lot from students and faculty about their disorganization, and the new curriculum they're implementing may make this even worse. I know that plenty of good docs have graduated from there, but this really makes me nervous. However, while Georgetown is also a great school with many great opportunities, it is much much MUCH more expensive in the long run, and I'm not sure it seemed like as warm of an environment as Wayne State, but it was hard to tell. Georgetown seems to match better and have higher Step 1 scores, but there are many potential confounding variables that cause this and this may not reflect on the quality of the program. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

(Full disclaimer - I am currently waitlisted at Georgetown, but I know they have a great deal of waitlist movement in May and I have been diligent with my update letters. If accepted in May with a short time period to accept, I would be absolutely torn to decide between the two, and want to have made my decision way ahead of time if this is the case)

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[DrDwayneJohnson]

Inb4 that dude comes in with his copy pasta bashing Georgetown lol.

Based on your description, it sounds like Georgetown would cost you an extra $160k or so before interest (based on a total estimate that the CoL is about 10k more/year and tuition is 30k/year). With that in mind and the proximity to your support system, I'd say go to Wayne.

 

[Juice313]

Inb4 that dude comes in with his copy pasta bashing Georgetown lol.

Based on your description, it sounds like Georgetown would cost you an extra $160k or so before interest (based on a total estimate that the CoL is about 10k more/year and tuition is 30k/year). With that in mind and the proximity to your support system, I'd say go to Wayne.

Lol that guy is the worst.

But your reasoning makes sense, it would be much more expensive to go to Georgetown. I guess the two big things pro-Georgetown for me are the apparent disorganization at Wayne and the name-recognition/prestige associated with Georgetown. I'm not sure how much the "disorganization" that has been described to me would directly affect me though, and I'm completely unsure as to whether or not name recognition/prestige actually means much in terms of matching residencies.

 

[DrDwayneJohnson]

Lol that guy is the worst.

But your reasoning makes sense, it would be much more expensive to go to Georgetown. I guess the two big things pro-Georgetown for me are the apparent disorganization at Wayne and the name-recognition/prestige associated with Georgetown. I'm not sure how much the "disorganization" that has been described to me would directly affect me though, and I'm completely unsure as to whether or not name recognition/prestige actually means much in terms of matching residencies.

To my understanding, all school administrations are disorganized to some degree. Georgetown has lay prestige, but Georgetown med =/= GT law. Matching into residency will solely fall on you, though. Georgetown would probably give you a better chance of matching in the Northeast/east if you like that area of the country.

 

[Deus Ex Medicine]

Congratulations on your acceptance at Wayne State University School of Medicine!

• Unsure of name recognition outside of Michigan/midwest in the case that I want to go elsewhere for residency

I was also accepted by WSU this cycle and I was an out-of-state applicant. Anecdotally, Wayne State University has name recognition outside of the state in the medical world because it pumps out almost 300 graduates per year. Basically, anywhere you go, there will be a WSU alumnus/a. Specifically for medicine, there is name recognition for Wayne State in the community.

• Unsure of research opportunities - may want to do summer research elsewhere

Again, this is anecdotal, but there should be plenty of research opportunities at Wayne State University. As you probably already know, the school is right next to Detroit Medical, Henry Ford, etc. which means that are several hospitals and clinics where you can find clinical research options. Wayne State is most well known for its cancer biology research (that's where all the NIH funding goes).

• Very expensive - tuition ~2x as much as Wayne State (~$60,000) and cost of living will also be much higher

Hope this helps! Congrats again the acceptance and I hope get off the wait list at Georgetown too - always better to have options!

 

[Juice313]

Congratulations on your acceptance at Wayne State University School of Medicine!



I was also accepted by WSU this cycle and I was an out-of-state applicant. Anecdotally, Wayne State University has name recognition outside of the state in the medical world because it pumps out almost 300 graduates per year. Basically, anywhere you go, there will be a WSU alumnus/a. Specifically for medicine, there is name recognition for Wayne State in the community.



Again, this is anecdotal, but there should be plenty of research opportunities at Wayne State University. As you probably already know, the school is right next to Detroit Medical, Henry Ford, etc. which means that are several hospitals and clinics where you can find clinical research options. Wayne State is most well known for its cancer biology research (that's where all the NIH funding goes).


Hope this helps! Congrats again the acceptance and I hope get off the wait list at Georgetown too - always better to have options!

Thank you so much for both your kind words and your input! It definitely helps put things in perspective for me. I didn't really get to hear much, if anything, about research opportunities there during my interview day.

Also, congratulations on your acceptance to Wayne State as well! Will you be attending this fall?

 

[Deus Ex Medicine]

Thank you so much for both your kind words and your input! It definitely helps put things in perspective for me. I didn't really get to hear much, if anything, about research opportunities there during my interview day.

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So, Wayne State will market itself as a school that helps the underserved of Detroit, has many opportunities for community service, and will provide excellent clinical training. This is not a bad thing at all, but it means that research going on at Wayne State and surrounding areas often flies under the radar.

Things are changing at Wayne State and the administration is trying to change the culture at the institution. I think that in the coming years, Wayne State’s reputation will only improve. There is a big push currently to remove unproductive faculty who are not bringing in funding or publishing research. Also, for example, the MD/PhD program will soon be submitting an application to make their program MSTP. My hope is that these positive changes herald more to come.

Both clinical training and clinical research are strong points for Wayne State. Because of its proximity to DMC, Henry Ford, etc. you can easily shadow whatever specialty you want and get working on a research project too. All you have to do send an email and faculty are very response. There is opportunity for basic, translational, clinical endeavors too.

Congratulations once again!

Also, congratulations on your acceptance to Wayne State as well! Will you be attending this fall?

Still deciding! I have some options to choose from but WSU is the front runner!

 

[Gilakend]

As a fellow Michigander I came to defend Detroit because everyone typically goes "eww who would want to live in Detroit?". Glad to see if it being properly represented here.

 

[Deus Ex Medicine]

As a fellow Michigander I came to defend Detroit because everyone typically goes "eww who would want to live in Detroit?". Glad to see if it being properly represented here.

Care to defend it a bit? Wayne State is at the top of my list and my main source of hesitation is unrelated to the program or education. It’s because it’s Detroit. I’m not from the area and my brief exposure to the city was only during my interview day.

 

[Juice313]

As a fellow Michigander I came to defend Detroit because everyone typically goes "eww who would want to live in Detroit?". Glad to see if it being properly represented here.

I am also a Michigander and native Detroiter! It's an amazing place with a misleading reputation mainly built upon from its past.

Care to defend it a bit? Wayne State is at the top of my list and my main source of hesitation is unrelated to the program or education. It’s because it’s Detroit. I’m not from the area and my brief exposure to the city was only during my interview day.

So, I grew up around Detroit and went to high school around there. The reputation that you've probably heard is, at this point in time, a huge misconception. In the last 10 or so years, the city has been absolutely BOOMING with development not only downtown, but especially in midtown where WSU is. Shops, bars, restaurants, apartment complexes, all popping up at an extremely fast rate. People were rapidly moving out of the city when it went into bankruptcy, but it has been bouncing back like no other with the help of people like Mayor Duggan, Dan Gilbert, and Mike Ilitch (RIP). I went to school in Ohio and currently live in Ohio for my gap year, but every single time I'm home I spend a good amount of my free time hanging out downtown or in midtown with friends and family. Great food, great bars, lots of great concerts at both larger and more intimate concert halls, the Detroit Institute of Arts is right by WSU, as well as a host of other museums like the Science Center, African American History Museum, Museum of Contemporary Art and Design, and I could go on. To top that off, all of the pro-sport Detroit teams play in midtown Detroit at Little Caesars Arena (Pistons and Red Wings), Comerica Park (Tigers), and Ford Field (Lions). There are also some casinos if that's your cup of tea, but after my last trip to Vegas I'm taking a long gambling hiatus lol.

The city as a whole is a big city, but doesn't feel overwhelming/overcrowded like a Chicago or New York. It feels comfortable. I am never overwhelmed walking around. My biggest complaint in that mass public transport is essentially non-existent like it is on other big cities, unless you want to take the People Mover (pro tip: don't pls). There's this tram that goes up and down Woodward Ave called the Q-Line and it's really dumb and everyone from Detroit makes fun of it, but that's about it for public transit lol. I typically don't have an issue finding parking though, and there's obviously Uber and Lyft.

I will also say that, just like any big city, there are certain areas you probably should not stray into. The biggest thing people say about Detroit is that it is "soo dangerous" - well, yes it is in certain areas, but so is Chicago, or New York, or Boston, or literally anywhere else. Just be smart! Downtown and Midtown are generally fine in terms of safety, the same as any other large city.

BASICALLY... Detroit is an amazing city that I not only have always loved, but have loved to see grow and develop into what it is now. The momentum of the city is quickly moving forward, and I'm super excited to see where it goes next. If you are worried about the city, the simplest thing I can tell you is... don't be! I know you'll love it.

 

[Gilakend]

Care to defend it a bit? Wayne State is at the top of my list and my main source of hesitation is unrelated to the program or education. It’s because it’s Detroit. I’m not from the area and my brief exposure to the city was only during my interview day.

There are certainly areas that are bad or just plain sad (Delray) but the city as a whole ESPECIALLY where WSU is, is wonderful. @Juice313 Gave a wonderful write up on the city, but the whole area (Michigan) is great too. Also a lot more diversity imo than you think (anecdotal). In Michigan you can do just about anything! Skiing, water sports, we get all 4 seasons so you can do any seasonal sport, Detroit has every major sports team, great nature scenes in Michigan, you have other fun cities like Ann Arbor right by, and Canada is literally right next door for even more things to do! Not to mention the UP is literally like a different state. There is literally zero shortage of things to do in Michigan.

 

[Deus Ex Medicine]

Thank you @Juice313 and @Gilakend for your posts and write-ups about Detroit and the surrounding area. As an out of state applicant who knows little about the Detroit area, it is very much reassuring. Hopefully I’ll see you two around.

 

[Juice313]

Are there any current Georgetown students that can speak of their experience there so far? I'm much for familiar with Wayne State than Georgetown, and am really unsure of what it's actually like at Georgetown as a medical student (I don't know a single person there).