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Suggestion We need to increase traffic on SDN.
Started by AJ25
SDN feels quieter than 10 years ago due to fragmentation. Many discussions have moved to Reddit, Discord, and other social media.
Traffic may be lower, but signal-to-noise is often better. Here's why:
Traditional forums like SDN offer advantages over corporate social media. Threads persist on our forums, which means ideas can be challenged, revisited, and refined over time instead of being buried by an algorithm.
Moderation and topic structure reduce pile-ons and help prevent echo chambers. You are more likely to encounter well-argued minority viewpoints rather than whatever opinion happens to be most popular at the moment.
That creates space for nuance, disagreement, and uncertainty, which is especially valuable in complex fields like healthcare.
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I'd be interested in getting your suggestions and other members' thoughts.
My initial suggestion is to revamp this product and make it competitive for the present. The site, as it exists now, is a relic of the past.
What I will say is that the product has "the name" and you can easily modernize it to attract today's pre-med audience, current medical students, and even current physicians and recreate the energy that was here not that long ago.
That's just the "idea" but the blueprint for that would require much brainstorming of which I would be happy to be a part of.
What I envision is a product that makes applying to medical school and getting accepted to medical school a goal where each "user" actively supports one another in that quest, instead of criticizing, judging, and providing less-than-accurate information. Perhaps the results of that could be better achieved with a subscription-type model where only "real" and "serious" members want to join and only high quality information is shared amongst the user base. Essentially, I picture SDN as the place to be as a pre-med, a current med student, and a place for physicians to meet other physicians and learn and exchange ideas. That's not exactly what it is right now; it's close, but it could be more refined.
Just my .02.
Well stated. I agree with you - students want information, guidance, and support without added anxiety of peer competition.
I’ll reach out to you in PMs.
I'd be happy to post flyers if someone had one at my university I graduated from which is the biggest feeder into medical schools in Texas.
D
deleted1232951
This site is flooded with ads on mobile to the point I cant even click anything until I click the tiny X on all of them. That’s not a good user experience.
Registered users shouldn’t be seeing ads - is this only when you are logged out?
Hi, send me a PM with a screenshot - registered members shouldn't be seeing ads!
Reddit is the reason. But it's okay; I personally don't like the modern-looking format over there and I'm sure many people are the same way.
The question is then, why did they go to Reddit? We could probably figure out the answer but the solution will be much harder.
This is going to be my old man yelling at the clouds moment. Reddit is convenient; it consolidates a myriad of interests in an easy and digestible manner. I grew up with forums. I remember how vibrant communities were those days, but that changed as social media grew.
Forums are simply not cool anymore in this current social media space. Forums require a level of etiquette and engagement that might be considered too much effort or energy. Each generation grows up along with the social media platforms they are used to, but forums will continue to have their place for the reasons that Lee pointed out.
You are advocating for ens***tification of sdn to make it relevant lol. Why make it lose its soul for growth?? It is not a for-profit endeavor. There are myriad benefits to the current model as already stated and that is probably why it has persisted for 20+ years. It may well see a resurgence at some point. Also perhaps user engagement is not the most important metric (as evidenced by how horrible the internet is now due to pursuing engagement and growth)? The fact that not many people seek the type of discourse here currently… does not mean it is not useful or worth having.
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Re: Reddit, Discord, TikTok, Meta
I'm biased since I'm older and grew up with forums since the 90s, and I'm biased because I'm a privacy enthusiast with a heavy tech background, but I resent how invasive corporate platforms have become. I'll spare the wall of text, but the 4 corporations I noted above have documented, real ... conflicts of interest when it comes to collecting some really disturbing amounts of user data, down to the individual mouse movements and clicks and constantly siphoning up all contacts and location data or snooping around other apps on one's local devices (e.g. Facebook snooping on Snapchat and setting up local servers; Discord poking around one's computer). SDN doesn't do any of that invasive stuff. SDN doesn't harvest all posts for AI training for lucrative profit like Reddit decided to do. SDN doesn't participate in manipulating the emotions of its users in psych research without consent like Meta/Facebook has done. SDN has a core, non-profit mission, and it stands pretty alone in that mission compared to for-profit, corporate, general use platforms.
The upvoting and downvoting nature of Reddit never sat well with me compared to chronological thread discussions in forums, and unless I'm wrong, Reddit communities are "flat" and there's just one giant bucket for all threads to live. You can't have nicely organized subforums for admissions application cycles, MCAT resources, GPA resources, etc. or subdivide a community into e.g. pre-medical vs. pre-dental vs. pre-veterinary vs. pre-optometry subforums.
Perhaps the new social media has tainted an entire generation and ruined attention spans with dark patterns and manipulation to stay on platform for engagement and ad revenue. I don't know. I'd have to understand how the 18-29 crowd seeks out career and academic advice nowadays to really know for sure.
I've seen various other forums gentrify and shut down, and each time it leaves me with a rug-pull "What the heck? Now where do I go to discuss this topic?" feeling.
Re: SDN outreach to pre-medical and other pre-health students
When I transferred from my first undergrad to my second undergrad and did the whole pre-medical journey, I was more immersed in the usual biology and chem hallways and various other things around campus. When I ran across people who volunteered that they were considering applying to medical or dental school, I enthusiastically asked if they'd heard of SDN. It was always "no," so I'd give them the URL and say it's a fantastic resource and roadmap. MCAT, applying advice, interviews, everything.
I don't know if this is currently being done, but are there any light marketing efforts with undergrad schools to put the word out about the existence of these forums (as well as the other resources in the SDN/HPSA umbrella)? Reaching out to an undergrad's pre-medical/pre-health advisor or the appropriate science department chairs or deans with a short 1 page letter marketing SDN as a lovely, free resource can help them get the word out, whether it's in school e-mail lists, websites, social media groups (Facebook, Instagram, et al), Learning Management System portals (Blackboard, Canvas, et al), in pre-med meetings, flyers on bulletin boards, etc. If a light marketing effort isn't currently done, perhaps reaching out to schools via e-mail with a PDF flyer that can be forwarded or printed out would help drive more traffic to the forums.
I'm biased since I'm older and grew up with forums since the 90s, and I'm biased because I'm a privacy enthusiast with a heavy tech background, but I resent how invasive corporate platforms have become. I'll spare the wall of text, but the 4 corporations I noted above have documented, real ... conflicts of interest when it comes to collecting some really disturbing amounts of user data, down to the individual mouse movements and clicks and constantly siphoning up all contacts and location data or snooping around other apps on one's local devices (e.g. Facebook snooping on Snapchat and setting up local servers; Discord poking around one's computer). SDN doesn't do any of that invasive stuff. SDN doesn't harvest all posts for AI training for lucrative profit like Reddit decided to do. SDN doesn't participate in manipulating the emotions of its users in psych research without consent like Meta/Facebook has done. SDN has a core, non-profit mission, and it stands pretty alone in that mission compared to for-profit, corporate, general use platforms.
The upvoting and downvoting nature of Reddit never sat well with me compared to chronological thread discussions in forums, and unless I'm wrong, Reddit communities are "flat" and there's just one giant bucket for all threads to live. You can't have nicely organized subforums for admissions application cycles, MCAT resources, GPA resources, etc. or subdivide a community into e.g. pre-medical vs. pre-dental vs. pre-veterinary vs. pre-optometry subforums.
Perhaps the new social media has tainted an entire generation and ruined attention spans with dark patterns and manipulation to stay on platform for engagement and ad revenue. I don't know. I'd have to understand how the 18-29 crowd seeks out career and academic advice nowadays to really know for sure.
I've seen various other forums gentrify and shut down, and each time it leaves me with a rug-pull "What the heck? Now where do I go to discuss this topic?" feeling.
Re: SDN outreach to pre-medical and other pre-health students
When I transferred from my first undergrad to my second undergrad and did the whole pre-medical journey, I was more immersed in the usual biology and chem hallways and various other things around campus. When I ran across people who volunteered that they were considering applying to medical or dental school, I enthusiastically asked if they'd heard of SDN. It was always "no," so I'd give them the URL and say it's a fantastic resource and roadmap. MCAT, applying advice, interviews, everything.
I don't know if this is currently being done, but are there any light marketing efforts with undergrad schools to put the word out about the existence of these forums (as well as the other resources in the SDN/HPSA umbrella)? Reaching out to an undergrad's pre-medical/pre-health advisor or the appropriate science department chairs or deans with a short 1 page letter marketing SDN as a lovely, free resource can help them get the word out, whether it's in school e-mail lists, websites, social media groups (Facebook, Instagram, et al), Learning Management System portals (Blackboard, Canvas, et al), in pre-med meetings, flyers on bulletin boards, etc. If a light marketing effort isn't currently done, perhaps reaching out to schools via e-mail with a PDF flyer that can be forwarded or printed out would help drive more traffic to the forums.
I'm a millenial so I'm probably biased towards SDN.
1.) SDN to me feels like a more human & safe experience. 1 human, 1 account.
2.) Reddit OTOH seems shady AF and spikes my cortisol. The barrier of entry's low so you never know if it's a bajillion different people posting or 1 bat **** crazy person on 50 throwaway accounts. Also, as someone else has said, I don't feel Reddit is as anonymous as it seems to be. With SDN everyone comes in with the understanding that it's not very anonymous so people behave with better etiquette.
I prefer the smaller community. I agree with the overall sentiment to this thread, but would say let's just bring back the former users.
1.) SDN to me feels like a more human & safe experience. 1 human, 1 account.
2.) Reddit OTOH seems shady AF and spikes my cortisol. The barrier of entry's low so you never know if it's a bajillion different people posting or 1 bat **** crazy person on 50 throwaway accounts. Also, as someone else has said, I don't feel Reddit is as anonymous as it seems to be. With SDN everyone comes in with the understanding that it's not very anonymous so people behave with better etiquette.
I prefer the smaller community. I agree with the overall sentiment to this thread, but would say let's just bring back the former users.
Reddit is toxic in that there is a lot of fear mongering but you get newer voices.
SDN is problematic in that tons of forums at least in the residency and attending space devolve into egos clashing and petty disagreements. SDN tends to be more old voices which have their place but are less helpful in certain contexts.
SDN is problematic in that tons of forums at least in the residency and attending space devolve into egos clashing and petty disagreements. SDN tends to be more old voices which have their place but are less helpful in certain contexts.
Insight from a nontrad applicant...
Reddit is generally a mess. Most often it is the blind leading the blind, which is not altogether bad, but it often leads to inaccurate advice. The exception to this would be the nontraditional forum, which aside from traditional students seeking gap years to be considered nontraditional, you find better advice and conversations in that forum. Like others are saying, I think most people use Reddit because that is what they are used to. Folks in my demographic group up with forums and chatrooms, so this model feels a bit more at home.
In terms of modernization of the site, brand, etc. there are improvements that could be made. The extent to which is obviously dependent on the resources to do so, but I believe there may be some low hanging fruit.
From a UI/UX perspective, a simple change would be to reorganize the menu drop downs. Instead of Home, Forums, School Database, Calculators, etc, the question could be made, "For a person wanting to come to this site, how can they quickly navigate to resources and tools that fit their path?" In answering this question, the team can allow for visitors to self-select based on where they are at on their journey and the drop down would be reflective of their place in their journey. This could lead to the change of top menu bar to something like Home, Pre-Health, Profession Student, Resident, Physician, etc. And those dropdown can be reorganized to fit the needs of the client.
The landing page design is not overall bad, but again, tailoring can lead to more engagement. I'm not a UI/UX web designer, so I do not know how to do this but I do know it is possible, but use the information they give when signing up as UI guidance for their landing page experience. For instance, a premed student should see only premed articles/resources on their home page.
Lastly, I think this site really is on the precipice of two very powerful tools for premeds (and maybe something could be made for residents as well): the LizzyM and WARS calculators. These tools in their current state are good, but with some effort could be made into industry leading tools that would drag premeds (and potential residents) to the site. Partner with AMCAS/AACOMAS to integrate their behind the scenes data and add features like postbacc grade integration, etc.
Could also look for strategic partnerships with Khan Academy, JW, or something of the like?
Just a few suggestions from my limited use of the site.
All that to say, I still think this is the best resource on the internet for nontrad guidance.
Reddit is generally a mess. Most often it is the blind leading the blind, which is not altogether bad, but it often leads to inaccurate advice. The exception to this would be the nontraditional forum, which aside from traditional students seeking gap years to be considered nontraditional, you find better advice and conversations in that forum. Like others are saying, I think most people use Reddit because that is what they are used to. Folks in my demographic group up with forums and chatrooms, so this model feels a bit more at home.
In terms of modernization of the site, brand, etc. there are improvements that could be made. The extent to which is obviously dependent on the resources to do so, but I believe there may be some low hanging fruit.
From a UI/UX perspective, a simple change would be to reorganize the menu drop downs. Instead of Home, Forums, School Database, Calculators, etc, the question could be made, "For a person wanting to come to this site, how can they quickly navigate to resources and tools that fit their path?" In answering this question, the team can allow for visitors to self-select based on where they are at on their journey and the drop down would be reflective of their place in their journey. This could lead to the change of top menu bar to something like Home, Pre-Health, Profession Student, Resident, Physician, etc. And those dropdown can be reorganized to fit the needs of the client.
The landing page design is not overall bad, but again, tailoring can lead to more engagement. I'm not a UI/UX web designer, so I do not know how to do this but I do know it is possible, but use the information they give when signing up as UI guidance for their landing page experience. For instance, a premed student should see only premed articles/resources on their home page.
Lastly, I think this site really is on the precipice of two very powerful tools for premeds (and maybe something could be made for residents as well): the LizzyM and WARS calculators. These tools in their current state are good, but with some effort could be made into industry leading tools that would drag premeds (and potential residents) to the site. Partner with AMCAS/AACOMAS to integrate their behind the scenes data and add features like postbacc grade integration, etc.
Could also look for strategic partnerships with Khan Academy, JW, or something of the like?
Just a few suggestions from my limited use of the site.
All that to say, I still think this is the best resource on the internet for nontrad guidance.
I asked Reddit users why or why not they use SDN:
Although the engagement is still small, biggest critiques are too many ads and some feel that the advice tends to gear towards the negative. Biggest positives are the secondary/interview question and residency resources.
A few people mention that they use Admit.org as their primary resource.
Although the engagement is still small, biggest critiques are too many ads and some feel that the advice tends to gear towards the negative. Biggest positives are the secondary/interview question and residency resources.
A few people mention that they use Admit.org as their primary resource.
Thanks! Appreciate your post. 🙂
FWIW, we don’t have forum ads for logged-in members.
Overall, I think the issue is that people’s use of the internet has fundamentally changed with AI and the rise of video. Today I preferentially use ChatGPT or Claude for to research and synthesize information rather than hunt around the internet trying to collect information. When I go to Google I rarely click through to a link. I’m sure many/most others do the same.
Google still serves as the first stop for many people, and unfortunately they've served a 1-2 blow to community and informational sites. First, they signed a contract with Reddit to preference Reddit over all other community forums. And second, they rarely forward people from their AI generated answers.
Last, I find that AI on Google, Claude, and ChatGPT have evolved to the level that a student wanting to build a school list or research a school can do it entirely on those platforms and even build their own personal app tracker. It’s fascinating to see the rapid evolution of the tech and how students are applying it.
