Western University...Credibility??

[fkajoshaj]

Hey guys, I am sure most of you are aware of the new OD school opening in Pomona, CA. So what do you guys think of the credibility of this school? Is it legit? If someone graduates from there, how bad does it look?

http://www.westernu.edu/xp/edu/optometry/accreditation.xml

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[tkim]

I'm a graduate from the osteopathic medicine program, which is the oldest of the programs - ~30 years.

They opened the first vet school in a long time when I had started school, and with the graduation of their first class should be granted full accreditation.

The plans to open schools of dentistry, optometry and podiatry are, in my opinion, irresponsible. I'm not sure there's an actual need for more of these schools, and when the vet school opened, my class frequently felt that our tuitions were being increased at crazy rates simply to pay for new infrastructure that's required with the start of a new program,

I'm sure they'll do fine in regards to accreditation and training. Probably be some kinks to work out in the first few class years.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Hey guys, I am sure most of you are aware of the new OD school opening in Pomona, CA. So what do you guys think of the credibility of this school? Is it legit? If someone graduates from there, how bad does it look?

http://www.westernu.edu/xp/edu/optometry/accreditation.xml

The optometry program has zero credibility. It's difficult to say how bad a degree from there would look because it really depends on who's looking. Several current docs have flat out said "if/when looking for a new associate, I refuse to hire any graduate of these three new schools". To all pre-optometry students: do yourself a favor, and go to an established school. If you don't, you're doing yourself and the profession as a whole a huge disservice.

 

[tkim]

The optometry program has zero credibility. It's difficult to say how bad a degree from there would look because it really depends on who's looking. Several current docs have flat out said "if/when looking for a new associate, I refuse to hire any graduate of these three new schools". To all pre-optometry students: do yourself a favor, and go to an established school. If you don't, you're doing yourself and the profession as a whole a huge disservice.

I'm confused, you've witnessed podiatrists, dentists, and optometrists who will not hire people from these programs?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I'm confused, you've witnessed podiatrists, dentists, and optometrists who will not hire people from these programs?

Sorry for not being clear, I was only referring to Western's optometry program as well as the two other new optometry schools.

 

[alferec]

Given if they plan to practice in California, the first several set of grads will probably have a hard time finding a job because they have to compete with two other very well established optometry schools that already put out a lot of new grads into the California OD job market. Just put it into perspective - if you were a doctor selling your practice and you had a choice between two brand spanking new grads from either the well respected SCCO/Berkeley or the newly formed Western, who would you choose??? I'm not saying that SCCO/Berkeley necessarily has superior training, but you definitely have to consider the fact that the latter two have been around for so long and has been able to shape and mold its training program through the years.

On the other hand, who knows, maybe Western grads may be able to fill in the commercial optometry positions e.g. Walmart, Costco, etc. since they (most likely) won't get hired by private practitioners, at least in the near future.

 

[tkim]

I really dislike it when schools open new programs to simply make money, instead of filling a gap in providers. Flooding the market with new providers simply dilutes the market and drives down salaries.

My school, sometimes ...

 

[blysssful]

Given if they plan to practice in California, the first several set of grads will probably have a hard time finding a job because they have to compete with two other very well established optometry schools that already put out a lot of new grads into the California OD job market. Just put it into perspective - if you were a doctor selling your practice and you had a choice between two brand spanking new grads from either the well respected SCCO/Berkeley or the newly formed Western, who would you choose??? I'm not saying that SCCO/Berkeley necessarily has superior training, but you definitely have to consider the fact that the latter two have been around for so long and has been able to shape and mold its training program through the years.

On the other hand, who knows, maybe Western grads may be able to fill in the commercial optometry positions e.g. Walmart, Costco, etc. since they (most likely) won't get hired by private practitioners, at least in the near future.

I am seriously considering not applying to Western after thinking about this...

 

[victoria11]

I remember when WesternU opened its pharmacy program a couple of years ago it had a similar reaction the new programs such as optometry are now having.

Six years later, the pharmacy program has over 1,600 applicants, an unheard of 100% past rate on the board exams and has surpassed other more established programs in the area. I believe the new programs under the same university will be just as successful.

 

[CarltonBanks]

I remember when WesternU opened its pharmacy program a couple of years ago it had a similar reaction the new programs such as optometry are now having.

Six years later, the pharmacy program has over 1,600 applicants, an unheard of 100% past rate on the board exams and has surpassed other more established programs in the area. I believe the new programs under the same university will be just as successful.

Let me guess... you work for or are affiliated with Western University? Your post is suspicious (new user, first post, bold, sounds like you are trying to sell us the university). Either I am wrong or spamming has reached a new low.

 

[optometristan]

Now wait a minute everyone. Before everyone bashes this school into oblivion, let’s take a look at it for a moment. Like the above poster says, it DOES have an accredited pharmacy program... and dentistry program... and osteopathic medicine program... and nursing program... and nearly every other program in the health care field. To me, it seems almost logical to open up an optometry program within their university that will be accredited in the future.

I understand that everyone’s main "gripe" with this university is the oversaturation problem which yes, probably will be a bigger problem in the future; however, I don't think it is fair to kick every new school with an idea. The University is obviously big on incorporating and integrating other health care fields into "one big happy family". This would, in my opinion, cure some of the other poster's "gripes" on this site concerning other health care fields not respecting optometry. Furthermore, Western U wants to focus higher on neural-optometry, a cool idea in my opinion (I read this source in either Optometry in Review or the Journal of Optometry, if someone is in dire need of it, I'm sure I could dig it up).

So yes, the school contributes to the saturation of the optometry market, but if that is your only objection to it, I suggest you attempt to (or complain about trying to) close down an older, less inspiring optometry school.

If I may continue (sorry to everyone for the already too long post) I believe the ASCO is continuing to make a big mistake for advising against "rankings" of optometry schools. Ranking will increase competition between schools and thus increase the likelihood of an underperforming optometry school to close down.

So in my opinion, let some fresh ideas outcompete stale ones instead of dismissing them all together. Not that I'm saying I'm even going to apply to Western U, but at least I see it as a good thing to optometry.

 

[hoosier1]

let me guess... You work for or are affiliated with western university? Your post is suspicious (new user, first post, bold, sounds like you are trying to sell us the university). Either i am wrong or spamming has reached a new low.

lol

 

[victoria11]

Let me guess... you work for or are affiliated with Western University? Your post is suspicious (new user, first post, bold, sounds like you are trying to sell us the university). Either I am wrong or spamming has reached a new low.

Actually I applied to the school and was recently invited for an interview. Some of my friends are enrolled in the pharmacy program & that’s how I found out about the optometry program.
I too was quite skeptically at first. More specifically I was concerned about the qualifications of the other applicants. However, there were a handful of other people being interviewed from the UC system (like me) and a couple from the cal state system. In addition one guy even has his masters. I really liked the atmosphere created by the students & faculty as well as the curriculum that accounts for some of the new changes in the profession. All in all I had a positive impression on the program.
I’ve been reading posts on the optometry forum for quite sometime but my last post on this thread was the first time I thought I should also put in my opinion because there are some other points of view that should also be brought up.
I know someone will ask what my stats are so here they are
OAT average 320 with my highest score in bio 360 (go figure-I’m a bio major) & lowest in physics 300 and my overall GPA is a 3.3 with 3.1 for the sciences

 

[optmania]

Can I ask you if thats your first choice? Also, do you know how competitive they are with grades, are they like the other schools? Do you know anyone that got accepted and is going?

 

[Brightereyez]

when was your interview at western, and were u accepted? do you know about the class size?? also can you give us any other information about this school
Thank you

 

[optmania]

I know that the class size is 70, are you applying also?

 

[Brightereyez]

Yea i'll be applying to all three CA schools, but i'll be applying kind of late; i'm thiking it will take until late december till i have everything ready.

 

[hoosier1]

3 california schools! that sounds crazy!

 

[optmania]

why is that crazy that he is applying to three cali schools???

 

[Jay12]

I think what he meant was that its crazy that California has three optometry schools

 

[blysssful]

I think what he meant was that its crazy that California has three optometry schools

On this point (and I guess not really on the main point of this thread), does anyone know what goes into determining where the optometry schools are placed? Is it only about state funding for the public schools? I guess my question is that I don't understand the imbalance with the states... CA now has three versus many states that don't have any, or any alliances with any of the schools. Kind of sucks for those of the less fortunate states.

On Western's credibility... assuming they'll eventually get accreditation (that assumption is based on the fact that they have managed to get accreditation for their other programs), I'm curious what others think about Western's potential standing verses Puerto Rico's current standing.

 

[victoria11]

I just had my interview recently & it takes them about 2-3 weeks to send out the notification. My interview group was very curious so we were asking a lot of questions to the admissions coordinators whenever there was a moment in between campus tour, lunch etc. They told us that they anticipate on seating a class of 70 but at the same time they will reduce or increase the number depending on the quality of applicants.

I asked how many applications they have received already and they said around 80. I then asked if everyone was granted an interview and they said no. There are still 6 or 7 more months to apply but I think the sooner the better because its rolling admissions. I hope this answers all of your questions for more specific questions its probably best to visit their website. I have already received & replied to private messages from several users who are being interviewed in October asking for more interview details. All of the questions are about your past experiences and how you interact with others & in certain situations. The best advice I can give is to be very relaxed & confident.

when was your interview at western, and were u accepted? do you know about the class size?? also can you give us any other information about this school
Thank you

 

[Dwight Schrute]

If optometry school is meant to be for you then you should be able to gain admission to an existing school--one that has been open and educating optometrists for at least 20 years. Why would anybody want to go to a school that is not accredited? Free tuition maybe? Free dorms? Free hookers? I just don't get it.

 

[Absolute Vision]

I'm just curious... how will WesternU generate a large patient-base for upcoming optometry students? When students reach their 3rd year will they be required to bring in their own patients to do exams? How about their optical center??? Where are they getting their target audience/patients to generate the necessary revenue to run an optometry program? I'm sure it's not from just the tuition from the student body. How about their future externship programs??? I guess the patient base will come from the other established professional schools there.

 

[optmania]

They are not accredited? how does that effect the students who end up going there? there degree would not count? Im confused

 

[victoria11]

This is getting ridiculous…have you guys actually read through the website, attended an info session, directly asked or e-mailed the administration about any of these concerns prior to jumping to conclusions? The fact is Western already has INITIAL accreditation, they already have a strong patient base considering the community surrounding the school is highly underserved/uninsured & already utilizing the services provided by the University’s other programs, obviously they have to have an optical center & they will be tapping into the rotation and residency sites of their other successful programs (VA/private & county hospitals/reservations). These are all legitimate concerns but please take the time to do your own research and look at the facts.

As of right now I have acceptances to 2 schools and will also be interviewing at SCCO since I meet the academic guidelines. However there is one main concern that I have with SCCO’s interview policy. They have a strict cut off (3.0 GPA and 300 OAT). If you have a 2.99 GPA or a 290 forget about getting an interview. Case in point ----> one of my coworkers at the optometry office is bilingual and without her most of our patients would not continue to come to our office. As an optometrist she would be able to connect and serve that patient population better then the rest of us. However, although she has a 3.4 GPA & and many other activities in underserved communities her RC score of 290 has kept her from an interview slot at SCCO. I think it’s refreshing that Western looks at the entire application as a whole & doesn’t just play a numbers game.

I am definitely not saying that Western is the best program in the country but I do not believe that it will be bad just because it’s a new program. After all, those schools that are currently more established were once too a new program.

 

[Absolute Vision]

Victoria,

IF you read my post again, I only said that I was curious about WesternU's optometry program because it's new and not established yet...I never put the program down. My general concerns are valid...I agree with you that I would need to do more research on the school if I was planning to apply there. Obviously each optometry has its pros and cons...it just depends what you are willing to accept.
I appreciate your efforts to try to explain your side of the story. I agree with your example concerning the 300 cutoff at SCCO as being somewhat unfair...but if you really want to get into certain schools, you have to do everything you can to achieve their particular standards. It's true that just because you score well on an exam such as the OAT, doesn't mean you'll become a great OD...it definitely depends upon your other qualities and attributes. However, there just so many applicants wanting to get into schools such as SCCO that their standards are different. Unfortunately, not everything is always fair.

 

[blysssful]

This is getting ridiculous…have you guys actually read through the website, attended an info session, directly asked or e-mailed the administration about any of these concerns prior to jumping to conclusions? The fact is Western already has INITIAL accreditation, they already have a strong patient base considering the community surrounding the school is highly underserved/uninsured & already utilizing the services provided by the University’s other programs, obviously they have to have an optical center & they will be tapping into the rotation and residency sites of their other successful programs (VA/private & county hospitals/reservations). These are all legitimate concerns but please take the time to do your own research and look at the facts.

As of right now I have acceptances to 2 schools and will also be interviewing at SCCO since I meet the academic guidelines. However there is one main concern that I have with SCCO’s interview policy. They have a strict cut off (3.0 GPA and 300 OAT). If you have a 2.99 GPA or a 290 forget about getting an interview. Case in point ----> one of my coworkers at the optometry office is bilingual and without her most of our patients would not continue to come to our office. As an optometrist she would be able to connect and serve that patient population better then the rest of us. However, although she has a 3.4 GPA & and many other activities in underserved communities her RC score of 290 has kept her from an interview slot at SCCO. I think it’s refreshing that Western looks at the entire application as a whole & doesn’t just play a numbers game.

I am definitely not saying that Western is the best program in the country but I do not believe that it will be bad just because it’s a new program. After all, those schools that are currently more established were once too a new program.

The point you bring up with SCCO is indeed unfortunate. However, a) this is not the norm for optometry schools, b) in comparison to other pre-professional programs (such as medical or dental schools) they have plenty more schools that are this particular and c) think about the boards... you can miss passing by one question or twenty but the bottom line is that the standard was not met.

In the situation of your friend, if only one score on the OAT was keeping her from being accepted, I'm sure SCCO urged her to retake the exam. Quite frankly, while being bilinguial is an amazing asset, if her general English reading comprehension is holding her back, then this is an issue that may hold her back in all aspects of an American graduate program.

It's kind of funny that you admit Western isn't the best program in the country... mostly because their program is currently non-existant.

I agree that all schools have to start somewhere. The future of Western's program is very much in the air... it could end up graduating the most capable optometrists who end up contributing the most to the profession as a whole... or it could end up with a repuation competing with Puerto Rico's, or anywhere in the middle.

However, the reservations of applicants towards the school is more than understandable. While they do currently have pre-accreditation, and by the time the first class is ready to graduate, they expect to have full accreditation, this is NOT by any means guaranteed. Not to mention the lack of research opportunties-- grants are not given overnight, nor are they easy to get, especially without an established program.

Personally, I did apply to Western because of its awesome location and their stated potential focus on neural aspects of optometry. However, since I have done my research on the school and thought through the potential of spending four years of my life at a program that may end up hindering me in the long run, I have decided to withdraw my application.

Obviously the program has to start somewhere, but as someone with a competitive enough application, I know I deserve better than to be a guinea pig for a school that will, without a doubt, have many kinks to work out before having a truly successful program.

 

[victoria11]

thanks for the feedback on your thoughts. good luck on your coming interviews!!

 

[OptometryG4]

I went to the interview and I got accepted! I was very impressed with the faculty and the curriculum! This will be a great school! I can't wait to start!

 

[Snake Doctor]

I wonder what the financial package will be like since the program is at its infant stage. Probably not a lot of scholarships (if any) to attract students who would otherwise choose other schools. Western does know how to run professional health programs though as far as its record of doing so is concern (up to this point)

 

[OptometryG4]

Western has gone through this before with Pharm and Dent. There programs were accredited in the past and are known to be very good programs.

 

[RegularGuy]

From what I understand, the applicant evaluation process at SCCO has 2 parts:

1) The first is the academic stage, where the school looks at a student's academic potential. After SCCO is convinced that a student has the ability to academically succeed as an optometry student, they are invited to an interview.

2) During the interview, the school looks at the personal, non-quantifiable aspects of the applicant. This is where foreign language ability, life experiences, personality and interest/participation in optometry come into the equation.

Each part is evaluated separately, which makes it difficult for applicants who are outstanding in one area, but need more development in the other to get accepted. However, IMHO, it's a great way to ensure that the students who are accepted are well rounded. Looking around at the freshman class here, I must say that the admissions team does a good job of selecting capable, intelligent people who are also very personable and committed to the profession. Some people may disagree with the admission team's methods, but it's hard to argue with the results.

Also, at the beginning of the year, we had an assembly where different professors were introduced. Each one stated how many people they interviewed, and how many they accepted. A high proportion of people who were interviewed were rejected! So, if you're interviewing at SCCO, do your prep work so you can rock the interview.

Finally-- Very few comments have been made about the tuition for Western's optometry school. I don't know the exact numbers, but I've heard rumors that it's very high. This is something that people should consider because, well, it's hard paying back $200,000 in student loans.

 

[OptometryG4]

Finally-- Very few comments have been made about the tuition for Western's optometry school. I don't know the exact numbers, but I've heard rumors that it's very high. This is something that people should consider because, well, it's hard paying back $200,000 in student loans.

I think Western's tuition is close most other school. Berkeley is cheaper because it is a UC.

 

[MrBobblehead]

I think Western's tuition is close most other school. Berkeley is cheaper because it is a UC.

i just checked the website yesterday, and its roughly 27k/year! it really shocked me, that although the school is private and brand new, they have their tuition cost as high as SCCO. at 27k/year, i'd invest my dollars in an education at SCCO, a school that has a good overall record, rather than spending it at a questionable new school. just my .02 that being said, i still applied to western U.

 

[CarltonBanks]

i just checked the website yesterday, and its roughly 27k/year! it really shocked me, that although the school is private and brand new, they have their tuition cost as high as SCCO. at 27k/year, i'd invest my dollars in an education at SCCO, a school that has a good overall record, rather than spending it at a questionable new school. just my .02 that being said, i still applied to western U.

Yup, I agree. Why risk it? Apply to an established school. Here is their estimated 10 month budget (includes books and supplies cost, membership fees, loan fees, room, board, etc.)

 

[KHE]

This is getting ridiculous…have you guys actually read through the website, attended an info session, directly asked or e-mailed the administration about any of these concerns prior to jumping to conclusions? The fact is Western already has INITIAL accreditation, they already have a strong patient base considering the community surrounding the school is highly underserved/uninsured & already utilizing the services provided by the University’s other programs, obviously they have to have an optical center & they will be tapping into the rotation and residency sites of their other successful programs (VA/private & county hospitals/reservations). These are all legitimate concerns but please take the time to do your own research and look at the facts.

Highly underserved? Surely you can't be serious....

A simple mapquest search or google earth search using the schools address and the word "optometrist" shows at least 50 optometrists within a 5 mile radius of the school and no less than 150 optometrists within a 10 mile radius.

For ophthalmolgists, it's around 75 ophthalmologists within a 10 mile radius.

Now how, in the name of Christ, can you call THAT an underserved area?

 

[optsuker]

My partner was a member of one of NOVA’s 1st graduating classes and he had nothing but bad experiences as part of a new program. There are a multitude of reasons to think twice about going this route:​

· It’s new: Even the best planning is going to have unforeseen errors & you’re going to be the recipient of the consequences of every one of them. Could be anything from having to take extra courses, poor board exam results, etc. ​

· Placement: There’s a big % of OD’s that feel adding new schools is harmful to their profession. Whether you agree or not, these are going to be thy guys hiring for the best practice opportunities. On the other hand, Walmart won’t care where you got your degree.​

· Clinical experience: A lot of your clinical patients will be “shared.” Making all the clinical decisions yourself is much more valuable than deciding by​

committee. The outreach sites for your 4th year will not be well established like the other schools.​

· Staff: The new schools will recruit a few “big names” for credibility. The remainder of the faculty will be those rejected by other institutions or practitioners “burned out” in their current location. (Notice how few faculty members are listed on the website? Soon, they’re going to be taking every warm body that applies.) ​

· Student Body: For a large % of applicants, this will be their “fall-back” choice. Regardless of your reasons for choosing Western U, many of your peers will be those who shouldn’t have been accepted to any program in the first place. Notice how quickly everyone is accepted after applying? They’re filling seats with anyone with a tuition check.​

· Curriculum: Western’s admissions dept. is down-playing the accreditation issue. Unlikely, but possible. The neuro- emphasis is a marketing ploy. It will involve little more than an extra class or slant during a few basic courses. Be prepared to have courses changed on the fly & to twiddle your thumbs in clinic.​

 

[gochi]

My partner was a member of one of NOVA’s 1st graduating classes and he had nothing but bad experiences as part of a new program. There are a multitude of reasons to think twice about going this route:
· It’s new: Even the best planning is going to have unforeseen errors & you’re going to be the recipient of the consequences of every one of them. Could be anything from having to take extra courses, poor board exam results, etc.
· Placement: There’s a big % of OD’s that feel adding new schools is harmful to their profession. Whether you agree or not, these are going to be thy guys hiring for the best practice opportunities. On the other hand, Walmart won’t care where you got your degree.
· Clinical experience: A lot of your clinical patients will be “shared.” Making all the clinical decisions yourself is much more valuable than deciding by
committee. The outreach sites for your 4th year will not be well established like the other schools.
· Staff: The new schools will recruit a few “big names” for credibility. The remainder of the faculty will be those rejected by other institutions or practitioners “burned out” in their current location. (Notice how few faculty members are listed on the website? Soon, they’re going to be taking every warm body that applies.)
· Student Body: For a large % of applicants, this will be their “fall-back” choice. Regardless of your reasons for choosing Western U, many of your peers will be those who shouldn’t have been accepted to any program in the first place. Notice how quickly everyone is accepted after applying? They’re filling seats with anyone with a tuition check.
· Curriculum: Western’s admissions dept. is down-playing the accreditation issue. Unlikely, but possible. The neuro- emphasis is a marketing ploy. It will involve little more than an extra class or slant during a few basic courses. Be prepared to have courses changed on the fly & to twiddle your thumbs in clinic.​

NOVA, believe it or not, is still a bad school. You would think they would have improved, but no.

Didn't they loose accreditation midway?