What are employers looking for in new graduates?

[iamapm]

Absolutely! People can't be excellent if they ignore their health -- and that includes mental health. And, as you said, putting in more hours does not always make one more productive in quality, let alone quantity. There's a lot of gray between running out the door after 8 hours on the nose and working oneself to death, but more time does not always equal more learning (or more improvement).

I/we do not want anyone working 50-60 hours on a regular basis or anything close. Occasionally, something sick comes in late in the day, we know the client is pressed for money or won't go to the ER. They came to us for help and we stay late an hour or two and help and they and the pet are helped. No one like to stay late, but sending the client away because you want to be "done" is not the right thing to do.

We really want to get to the point where we are busy enough that people can make their 100K base salary (only vets with experience) (500K in revenue) in 4 days of six scheduled hours, work things up well, do good medicine and go home (unless they are slow). However for now, we do 4 ten hour days 8-6pm, one night per week we are open 8pm, then their are shifts, 8am-6pm and 10am to 6pm. 9am to Noon on Saturday, closed Sunday. People work every other Saturday. That is it.

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[CalliopeDVM]

Consider the following, really happened, a lethargic pup, low body temp comes in near closing time (it was outside in the cold), the ER/overnight facility is 45 minutes away. We have no one overnight and should not and would not keep the puppy it should go to the ER. Would you be annoyed with the new grad who is out 4-5 months that TURFS it to the ER without doing anything or calling the medical director?

Frankly, I would have been annoyed if the new grad had called the medical director. What should happen to that pup isn't a management decision made by someone who isn't present. And how much time is "near closing time"? An hour? 5 minutes? How old is the pup? An 8 week old pom pup weighing half a pound is different than a 9 month old leonburger pup weighing 30 pounds.

Cold and lethargic pup comes in near closing........No, I wouldn't have started IV fluids, which will bring its body temperature down, unless I was able to provide active warming (with monitoring) at the same time, which I couldn't have provided. Unless the pup is very dehydrated and/or actively losing fluids (vomit/diarrhea), at least. I probably would have done a spot glucose, given the owners a heads up about costs, given a dextrose bolus if necessary, and sent them on their way.

I'd rather a new grad send the pup right to the ER, than spend time figuring out what to do that will cost that pup time and cost the clinic money.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

They came to us for help and we stay late an hour or two and help and they and the pet are helped. No one like to stay late, but sending the client away because you want to be "done" is not the right thing to do.

I've known many owners who prefer "sending the client away" because they don't want to pay overtime......."turfing" cases to the ER isn't always done just because the vet wants to get home on time. Sometimes it's clinic policy, and sometimes it's because the vet thinks it's the best thing for the patient (for better facilities, more experienced staff, etc).

 

[DVMDream]

I've known many owners who prefer "sending the client away" because they don't want to pay overtime......."turfing" cases to the ER isn't always done just because the vet wants to get home on time. Sometimes it's clinic policy, and sometimes it's because the vet thinks it's the best thing for the patient (for better facilities, more experienced staff, etc).

This. Has it been insanely dead all damn day and we are just getting this pup 5 minutes prior to close and that will keep staff there 2 hours over, that we will need to pay overtime on, but we made no money all day so it makes no sense to keep staff there.

What staff do I have for this pup? Do I have one of my two good technicians? Or am I stuck with dumb dumb and box of rocks (seriously there are good techs and there are techs that should have been fired a long time ago)?

What else do I have going on in that instant? If I have a complex case or I am discharging a patient or I have another emergency that presented 30 minutes prior to the puppy, I can't be in two places at once and with limited staff, puppy is going to ER.

 

[DVMDream]

I/we do not want anyone working 50-60 hours on a regular basis or anything close. Occasionally, something sick comes in late in the day, we know the client is pressed for money or won't go to the ER. They came to us for help and we stay late an hour or two and help and they and the pet are helped. No one like to stay late, but sending the client away because you want to be "done" is not the right thing to do.

There are multiple reasons to send the client away that have nothing to do with wanting to be "done" and everything to do with medicine/treatment.

And not having money = euthanasia a lot to me. I tend not to be the kindest to those who don't have money, especially with a new puppy and will call them out on it. Had one today. New puppy, diarrhea, declined everything last time I saw them. Puppy still not doing well. Has $0.... literally told us she has $0, wants us to fix it. Point blank said "here are some clinics that might take payments, but really you might want to consider surrendering this puppy since you can't appropriately care for it." Sorry, not sorry. Animals cost money, especially puppies and society really needs to start understanding this. Until we make society responsible for the decisions THEY made, we will continue to get walked over.... i.e... please stay late for me because I got a puppy without being financially prepared for one.

If it is a situation where the owner simply "won't" or "doesn't want" to go to ER... tough ****. They are adults and as an adult, you sometimes have to do things you don't want to for the responsibility you agreed to take on. Don't want to be responsible and take your puppy to the ER, then don't own a dog. It is that simple.

And yes, I have had these very frank discussions with people. Some of them get mad, but many of them understand.

It boils down to...

"Your lack of preparation and planning does not constitute an emergency on my part."

I do not have to bend over backwards for anyone because they refuse to be responsible for something that is their responsibility. Now, for good clients, I will do ****ing handstands for them, but for the "off the street, I want your free exam and you to fix my dog because I don't have money". Nope, I am not a charity worker and I have been abused enough by those kinds of people.


The cases that I get burned out on the most and that have the most entitled, rude clients are these ones. The last minute, end of day emergencies. I have yet to have one thank me for staying late, not bitch about cost, not bitch about why it is taking so long, not call and complain instantly the next morning. Not a single one. They expect you stay late, help them for less, fix things magically and then they leave (often without paying or "realizing they don't have money"). These last minute emergency cases are what have burned me out before. Most of them are ungrateful, demanding dinguses. So yeah, I do get hesitant to "stay late just to help this person". Basically will not unless it is an established client.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

What staff do I have for this pup? Do I have one of my two good technicians? Or am I stuck with dumb dumb and box of rocks (seriously there are good techs and there are techs that should have been fired a long time ago)?

Yup......I've worked in many clinics where the technicians' shift starts at opening so they can admit surgery patients and start the day, but their shift ends before closing and the closing staff are the receptionist and a couple of well-meaning but poorly trained assistants. That kind of makes sense in many clinics, since most late day appointments really only require, at most, restraint help. But it doesn't allow for much help in an end-of-day emergency walk-in (especially with an inexperienced vet).

 

[dyachei]

Dentistry is good. Vet schools generally teach you how to work in a referral clinic because their hospitals mostly function as such. Basic GP stuff mostly does not get done: yeasty ears, diarrhea dogs, itchy dogs and cats, blood in the urine cats, vaccine protocols, extolling the benefits of flea and tick meds, knowing to deworm puppies (really), all the basic stuff like this you will deal with daily. Some need to do TX GI panesl, Not so much the Cushing, addisons. Foreign bodies. FIP cats,

careful, now. Vet schools don't just teach how to work in a referral clinic. In fact, I believe all vet schools have GP rotations currently. Basically, unless you've gone to vet school, you can't make statements like that - I saw all of those things in vet school and felt confident treating them right out of the gate. And that was years ago now.

I feel like you have unrealistic expectations and you're trying to make a comparison to something you don't actually understand. I don't expect you to unless you've been through the process, really. I can tell you I learned ALL of those things. And we had rounds at least twice of flea/tick prevention during GP and derm rotations. They get how important it is.

 

[iamapm]

Yup......I've worked in many clinics where the technicians' shift starts at opening so they can admit surgery patients and start the day, but their shift ends before closing and the closing staff are the receptionist and a couple of well-meaning but poorly trained assistants. That kind of makes sense in many clinics, since most late day appointments really only require, at most, restraint help. But it doesn't allow for much help in an end-of-day emergency walk-in (especially with an inexperienced vet).

A fair point. The vet had a good assistant but in this case would have had to put the cath in herself but at the same time the pup was lethargic to restraint should not have been an issue. The owner also would have come (20 minutes) had the call been made.

 

[iamapm]

This. Has it been insanely dead all damn day and we are just getting this pup 5 minutes prior to close and that will keep staff there 2 hours over, that we will need to pay overtime on, but we made no money all day so it makes no sense to keep staff there.

What staff do I have for this pup? Do I have one of my two good technicians? Or am I stuck with dumb dumb and box of rocks (seriously there are good techs and there are techs that should have been fired a long time ago)?

What else do I have going on in that instant? If I have a complex case or I am discharging a patient or I have another emergency that presented 30 minutes prior to the puppy, I can't be in two places at once and with limited staff, puppy is going to ER.

In this case, kind of on the quiet side nothing else coming in. Was plenty of time to get help for the pup started and send it. The supportive care might have been enough that given the hour or so left in the shift that an ER might have not been required.

 

[iamapm]

Frankly, I would have been annoyed if the new grad had called the medical director. .

Really, why? Isn't This is part of the mentoring most new grads seem to require.

 

[DVMDream]

Really, why? Isn't This is part of the mentoring most new grads seem to require.

I mean, you're acting like new grads are helpless lost puppies. We aren't. Even two days into practice, I wouldn't have needed a colleague for a lethargic, cold puppy. Warmth, check BG, fluids if indicated, perhaps a parvo test depending and ship to ER. Or if I was already slammed, have them go to ER.

You really do degrade new grads a lot in your comments. You kind of lump them all into this picture of lost little sheep who will take hours to think of or develop treatment plans for anything. Will always be late writing records, etc. We aren't stupid. I didn't take much longer than my experienced colleagues, maybe 5-10 minutes because I didn't have drug dosages memorized, but otherwise, I was keeping up with them just fine. I believe most people consider as "mentoring" is having a vet available should they need assistance. But I'm not going to call up management to ask if something should go to emergency. I'm going to send them. That isn't a question for someone who isn't present and certainly not worth waiting 20 minutes for that person to show up because the client could be half way to emergency by then.

 

[DVMDream]

In this case, kind of on the quiet side nothing else coming in. Was plenty of time to get help for the pup started and send it. The supportive care might have been enough that given the hour or so left in the shift that an ER might have not been required.

But see, I've heard of vets getting in trouble for keeping staff over and letting them get overtime pay when the clinic hadn't made enough that day. And any young, lethargic, cold puppy (again depends a little) should go to ER, not just have an hour of care. There's just so much we don't know about that pup. And again an 8 week old pomeranian is different than an 8 week old great dane. If BG was low, puppy should be monitored even if responding well to supportive care. Any crackles in those lungs? Coughing? Parvo? Dehydrated? You can't rehydrate in an hour. Needs ER. In the big picture, one hour might be enough to see improvement, but not enough for me to not recommend ER for at least overnight monitoring... young pups can crash and burn fast even if they had been responding to treatment.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Really, why? Isn't This is part of the mentoring most new grads seem to require.

No. What you're upset with is that this new grad made a business decision that you don't agree with......that he referred a patient without doing anything at your clinic (income). You're not concerned about the new grad's medical knowledge or medical decision making. We have no reason to suspect that the vet made the choice for any reason other than the welfare of the patient.

If a new grad had no idea what to do (or even wasn't totally confident about what to do) and didn't reach out for help, I would be concerned.....but even still, that help doesn't have to come from the Medical Director. However, I would expect a new grad to be able to make a reasonable medical decision for this situation, which she/he did. It's not the decision you like, but that doesn't make it wrong or an unreasonable choice. Most new grads can handle 80% of what walks in the door, if they have the confidence- and finding confidence is the part of mentoring that most new grads seem to require.

 

[Trilt]

No. What you're upset with is that this new grad made a business decision that you don't agree with......that he referred a patient without doing anything at your clinic (income). You're not concerned about the new grad's medical knowledge or medical decision making. We have no reason to suspect that the vet made the choice for any reason other than the welfare of the patient.

Seriously.

A small cold puppy is best medically served by a clinic that has monitoring and staff for more than an hour or two. That is the best option for the patient, even if perhaps it isn't the best option for the client or clinics' pocketbook.

I say that as someone who practices in an area that doesn't have an open ER during the day for over an hour... I treat these things sub-optimally all the time. Yeah, it works 95% of the time. But if the owners are willing to go get better care, pop some dextrose in that dude and get them packing.

 

[JustPaws]

Speaking as a tech, I've definitely worked at a couple clinics that gave docs very mixed messages re: referring last minute cases to ER like this pup being discussed. Definitely heard the owner (vet) tell associate vet that they need to accept all cases and not refer to ER until after supportive care no matter what, and also heard that same owner tell that same doctor in similar situation that they don't want to pay the over time and that they should have referred that case to ER. Micromanaging at it's worst, the doc was fully capable of making a judgement call in both cases.

 

[Minnerbelle]

If indiscern that a patient needs intensive in-patient care, and will be needing to pay an ER fee to be admitted, I automatically give the client the choice to drive straight down to the ER 10 minutes down the road and not waste time with me and triage them away(provided the patient was stable for transport). My day practice is way more expensive than the ER believe it or not, and it's wasting time and resources for the pet to have anything done with me.

Of course I give people the option to stay and do diagnostics if the results would change whether or not the owners decide to transfer to the ER vs. euthanasia.

But if it's better for the patient and client to turf the case, I will. I don't think it's ethical to try to keep things in-house just for the revenue.

 

[iamapm]

careful, now. Vet schools don't just teach how to work in a referral clinic. In fact, I believe all vet schools have GP rotations currently. Basically, unless you've gone to vet school, you can't make statements like that - I saw all of those things in vet school and felt confident treating them right out of the gate. And that was years ago now.

I feel like you have unrealistic expectations and you're trying to make a comparison to something you don't actually understand. I don't expect you to unless you've been through the process, really. I can tell you I learned ALL of those things. And we had rounds at least twice of flea/tick prevention during GP and derm rotations. They get how important it is.

Actually, in our practice I have done everything but be the vet and have been doing all of this for about 20 years. It appears to me based on years of hiring new grads that the one who have actually worked for a couple of years as a tech before going to vet school have a very good idea of what clinical practice is like when they graduate. Those who have not, really do not seem to get the pressure of being responsive to the client having an appointment at a certain time and who would like to be in and out in 30 minutes or so (assuming nothing complex, no imaging, e.g.)

So I have a new question which perhaps is done in a separate thread. How many cases a day did you see (help with) in vet school and what were the time pressures?

 

[iamapm]

If.....
But if it's better for the patient and client to turf the case, I will. I don't think it's ethical to try to keep things in-house just for the revenue.

We agree on this point.

 

[DVMDream]

So I have a new question which perhaps is done in a separate thread. How many cases a day did you see (help with) in vet school and what were the time pressures?

This is where you clearly show that you have no clue what goes on in vet school. There is no one single answer to this. Are you asking for emergency, dermatology, neurology, surgery, general practice, internal medicine, etc, etc. The answer changes depending on the rotation. Also changes based on number of students in rotation, etc.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

I have done everything but be the vet

So you have no idea what it's like to be a vet. When the buck stops with you, it's a whole different ballgame. I know the timing of your post caught me at a bad time, but I'm really fed up with non-vets (managers or owners) trying to tell me how I should best be spending my time while at work, and what I should or shouldn't be focused on.

How many cases a day did we see in vet school? Not only does it depend on the rotation, as DVMD said, it also depends on what the cases were. We didn't see and help with cases primarily to see patients and address their problems, we see and help in cases in vet school primarily to learn from them; the experience to the clients is secondary to the learning they can afford the students. That means a time limit and a schedule is not a primary goal - first learn to do it, then worry about learning to do it efficiently.

 

[dyachei]

Actually, in our practice I have done everything but be the vet and have been doing all of this for about 20 years. It appears to me based on years of hiring new grads that the one who have actually worked for a couple of years as a tech before going to vet school have a very good idea of what clinical practice is like when they graduate. Those who have not, really do not seem to get the pressure of being responsive to the client having an appointment at a certain time and who would like to be in and out in 30 minutes or so (assuming nothing complex, no imaging, e.g.)

So I have a new question which perhaps is done in a separate thread. How many cases a day did you see (help with) in vet school and what were the time pressures?

20 years experience doesn't mean you know better than the people responding to you.

 

[DVMDream]

20 years experience doesn't mean you know better than the people responding to you.

I mean if we're taking that route I'm at...umm... 13 years experience, only 2 of which have I been a vet. Wouldn't dare say that is any better than someone out of school longer than me. Being a vet is a vastly different ballgame that you really only comprehend once you are one.

 

[DVMDream]

So you have no idea what it's like to be a vet. When the buck stops with you, it's a whole different ballgame. I know the timing of your post caught me at a bad time, but I'm really fed up with non-vets (managers or owners) trying to tell me how I should best be spending my time while at work, and what I should or shouldn't be focused on.

How many cases a day did we see in vet school? Not only does it depend on the rotation, as DVMD said, it also depends on what the cases were. We didn't see and help with cases primarily to see patients and address their problems, we see and help in cases in vet school primarily to learn from them; the experience to the clients is secondary to the learning they can afford the students. That means a time limit and a schedule is not a primary goal - first learn to do it, then worry about learning to do it efficiently.

So much of the bolded.

 

[DVMDream]

Those who have not, really do not seem to get the pressure of being responsive to the client having an appointment at a certain time and who would like to be in and out in 30 minutes or so (assuming nothing complex, no imaging, e.g.)

The thing is, medicine shouldn't be given a timeline. It is medicine, unpredictable, unexpected and it takes time. We as a profession have got to start training clients to realize this isn't like a coffee shop visit. You don't order your drink, sit down with a friend, chat a few minutes and leave.

It is medicine. It is complex and it can take time.

Now that isn't to say that we can't address certain things in 30 minutes, but many things can't be and shouldn't be. This isn't fast food.

A proper dermatology appointment (if you can ever get a client to do a proper work up) can take 45 minutes to an hour.

A proper work up for vomiting and diarrhea can take 45 minutes to an hour (longer if severe and even longer if due to GI foreign body, addison's, HGE, parvo, etc)

A coughing appointment can go anywhere from 15 minutes to over an hour (anything from URI all the way through to CHF is possible).

A real, thorough, first time puppy vaccine appointment should take a good, solid 30 minutes.

Now think of the few things I mentioned and how many of those you see in a day. The fact that vets can squeeze this crap in 30 minute time increments is nothing short of amazing. And if a vet falls behind because they actually spent extra time being sure that a case was handled appropriately, that shouldn't be admonished. Instead of admonishing the vet for being careful and thorough (because, again this isn't effing fast food we are dealing with) prepare your clients with the expectation that medicine can take a while to do right. And sometimes that means they might be waiting a little longer than they want to. That means if they start complaining that they scheduled another appointment 10 minutes after their vet appointment (because people are stupid and do this) you should offer them to reschedule. Make the expectation to be that vet med isn't an in and out ordeal.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

A real, thorough, first time puppy vaccine appointment should take a good, solid 30 minutes.

I was right there with you until this. Yes, veterinary medicine is medicine, and therefore unpredictable. But the amount of medicine actually involved in a thorough first time puppy visit, assuming no problems greater than an umbilical hernia or undescended testes, isn't that great, IMO, and it really could be a15-20 minute affair like an exam on a 4 year old dog. The rest of that 30 minutes you talked about, in my opinion, isn't medicine but management (I'm presuming you're taking parasites/training/behaviour/nutrition), and while it could be done by a vet, it could equally be done by a technician or trained staff member.

 

[dyachei]

I was right there with you until this. Yes, veterinary medicine is medicine, and therefore unpredictable. But the amount of medicine actually involved in a thorough first time puppy visit, assuming no problems greater than an umbilical hernia or undescended testes, isn't that great, IMO, and it really could be a15-20 minute affair like an exam on a 4 year old dog. The rest of that 30 minutes you talked about, in my opinion, isn't medicine but management (I'm presuming you're taking parasites/training/behaviour/nutrition), and while it could be done by a vet, it could equally be done by a technician or trained staff member.

Yes and no. Because owners don't understand that trained staff members know what they are talking about (and let's be honest some don't). Even when I do try to have it done that way, owners end up asking me the same questions because they want to hear it from the vet. And I'd rather spend the time with them than try to dismiss them


Dvmd if we want to get into the experience thing, I've been working in the field for 20+ years. The last 7 were way different than the first 13

 

[DVMDream]

I was right there with you until this. Yes, veterinary medicine is medicine, and therefore unpredictable. But the amount of medicine actually involved in a thorough first time puppy visit, assuming no problems greater than an umbilical hernia or undescended testes, isn't that great, IMO, and it really could be a15-20 minute affair like an exam on a 4 year old dog. The rest of that 30 minutes you talked about, in my opinion, isn't medicine but management (I'm presuming you're taking parasites/training/behaviour/nutrition), and while it could be done by a vet, it could equally be done by a technician or trained staff member.

Sure, if you've got a trained tech who knows all that stuff. And if you have a spare one, will you send him/her my way.

And even if the tech is doing it that is 15 minutes without a tech who would be needed to check in the next room.

To me, the tech time is included in all of this, really can't move on if your tech or techs are tied up finishing in an exam room.

Makes it more complicated if you get 1 tech like I have most of the time.

I consider parasites medicine...is it not preventive medicine, or even treatment? Behavior is medicine too, bad behavior leads to euthanasia, so it is all important in my opinion. My techs don't know to discuss training and behavior with a new puppy owner.

 

[DVMDream]

Dvmd if we want to get into the experience thing, I've been working in the field for 20+ years. The last 7 were way different than the first 13

Exactly!

 

[CalliopeDVM]

so it is all important in my opinion. My techs don't know to discuss training and behavior with a new puppy owner.

Of course they're all important; I didn't (or didn't mean to) imply otherwise. And techs should be trained to do important things in the clinic - it's better for them, for the vet, and for the clients - to learn to trust staff and treat them well. Yes, we can all do the things that techs should be able to do, ranging from client education to blood draws to running a urinalysis. But that doesn't make them things vets should expect to be a part of their job, generally speaking. They should expect to need to do them in the absence of trained staff.

Yes, if you don't have good and trained technicians, they can't do client education things. But if we include how long things techs could do to these kinds of calculations, where does it end? Include the time to run the lab work in addition to analyzing it? Include the time it takes to prep the surgery patients? But of course, that's what makes iamapm's question impossible to answer. I don't think it's an associates job to discuss how to trim a puppy's nails or whether or not an owner should bathe it weekly. Technicians are part of the health care team, and clinic owners should treat them as such........but of course associates (like relief vets) have no say in that matter. But, trust me, some clinics really do work that way - staff explain the different flea and heartworm med options, can demonstrate how to give meds to their cat, and explain how much of food X to feed daily and how to switch to the new food gently.

 

[DVMDream]

Of course they're all important; I didn't (or didn't mean to) imply otherwise. And techs should be trained to do important things in the clinic - it's better for them, for the vet, and for the clients - to learn to trust staff and treat them well. Yes, we can all do the things that techs should be able to do, ranging from client education to blood draws to running a urinalysis. But that doesn't make them things vets should expect to be a part of their job, generally speaking. They should expect to need to do them in the absence of trained staff.

Yes, if you don't have good and trained technicians, they can't do client education things. But if we include how long things techs could do to these kinds of calculations, where does it end? Include the time to run the lab work in addition to analyzing it? Include the time it takes to prep the surgery patients? But of course, that's what makes iamapm's question impossible to answer. I don't think it's an associates job to discuss how to trim a puppy's nails or whether or not an owner should bathe it weekly. Technicians are part of the health care team, and clinic owners should treat them as such........but of course associates (like relief vets) have no say in that matter. But, trust me, some clinics really do work that way - staff explain the different flea and heartworm med options, can demonstrate how to give meds to their cat, and explain how much of food X to feed daily and how to switch to the new food gently.

I completely agree with you that the techs should do tech things and the Dr should do Dr things. Heck, I encourage my techs to be techs..it is what they were trained to do. But I'm stuck with the below...

I have yet to find that job. Heck, I currently have a cat who I'm suspicious has diabetes that the tech couldn't spin down the blood and send it to the lab appropriately. Something she does daily. It is now useless blood....that is if we can even locate it. Every, single day, I'm fighting the fight of not enough techs and techs who don't know what they are doing or just don't care. The one good tech I do have is split 2783838 different ways trying to keep up with the errors of the others and keep her normal duties going.

It is insane. And we can't find good techs or heck, can't find people to hire because techs out here are paid worse than fast food employees so I don't really see anyone jumping to accept a job in a field that treats you like dirt on a good day.

 

[DVMDream]

That good tech nearly drowned a patient about two months ago because she was the only trained tech on a Saturday trying to train two untrained techs at the same time while the office manager played receptionist. When the office manager plays receptionist it is never say no, so office manager was triple booking us on a Saturday with 1 trained tech who was trying to train two people.

Granted it was the tech's mistake. She felt awful. No harm was done, I caught the error in time.

But, I had lots of very strong words with the office manager that day. And she still pulls that same bull ****.

 

[chickenlittle]

I got an earful from our assistant manager on Saturday over my referral of a case.

The other doctor I work with had performed an exploratory on a dog just an hour or two before closing on Friday evening. The dog turned out to have a linear foreign body. The other doctor finished the surgery after closing, then called the owner to tell them that the surgery was more complicated than expected, the intestines didn't look to great, and the dog had vomited intra-op so it'd probably be best for him to come get the dog and take him to the e-clinic for 24 hour care. He didn't. The dog actually survived through the night left alone at work, but when I came in the next morning (I was the weekend doc) I learned that he had vomited/regurgitated profusely overnight and he was so lethargic that he'd barely stand. We're only open from 8:30-12 on Saturdays, so I basically called the owner and said he HAD to come get the dog and take it to the e-clinic, because hospitalizing him with us through the weekend when he'd only get checked twice a day was absolutely not adequate or appropriate. He did it, though he grumbled a bit about the inconvenience of having to drive ALL THE WAY to the e-clinic (2o minutes away) and said he thought we were a "one-stop shop."

After he left, the associate manager gave me crap!!! She said "we don't normally send them to the e-clinic in that scenario," Yeah, I've noticed, and that's why I gave my notice a few weeks ago! But seriously, it's another example of putting profit over patients. I know that this particular person is a good person who does care about animals, but she's been brainwashed by working in that messed-up old-school clinic for too long. Looking forward to getting out and not sure if I can tough out the rest of my 2-month notice.

 

[DVMDream]

I got an earful from our assistant manager on Saturday over my referral of a case.

The other doctor I work with had performed an exploratory on a dog just an hour or two before closing on Friday evening. The dog turned out to have a linear foreign body. The other doctor finished the surgery after closing, then called the owner to tell them that the surgery was more complicated than expected, the intestines didn't look to great, and the dog had vomited intra-op so it'd probably be best for him to come get the dog and take him to the e-clinic for 24 hour care. He didn't. The dog actually survived through the night left alone at work, but when I came in the next morning (I was the weekend doc) I learned that he had vomited/regurgitated profusely overnight and he was so lethargic that he'd barely stand. We're only open from 8:30-12 on Saturdays, so I basically called the owner and said he HAD to come get the dog and take it to the e-clinic, because hospitalizing him with us through the weekend when he'd only get checked twice a day was absolutely not adequate or appropriate. He did it, though he grumbled a bit about the inconvenience of having to drive ALL THE WAY to the e-clinic (2o minutes away) and said he thought we were a "one-stop shop."

After he left, the associate manager gave me crap!!! She said "we don't normally send them to the e-clinic in that scenario," Yeah, I've noticed, and that's why I gave my notice a few weeks ago! But seriously, it's another example of putting profit over patients. I know that this particular person is a good person who does care about animals, but she's been brainwashed by working in that messed-up old-school clinic for too long. Looking forward to getting out and not sure if I can tough out the rest of my 2-month notice.

I got an earful from my office manager about not wanting to babysit a non-clients dog. Basically someone called up stating his dog "has trouble breathing at night and he wants someone to just watch it during the day". He doesn't want an exam, diagnostics or treatment. He wants us to be glorified babysitters. I told her no, I'm not babysitting something that could become a respiratory distress nightmare because we don't have the staff (1 tech) or the equipment (no oxygen cage). She got pissed at me. I told her the day she pays off my student debt is the day she can tell me what I will and won't do. (That'll also be the day I walk away from vet med).


I'm currently at the tail end of my notice.

 

[chickenlittle]

I got an earful from my office manager about not wanting to babysit a non-clients dog. Basically someone called up stating his dog "has trouble breathing at night and he wants someone to just watch it during the day". He doesn't want an exam, diagnostics or treatment. He wants us to be glorified babysitters. I told her no, I'm not babysitting something that could become a respiratory distress nightmare because we don't have the staff (1 tech) or the equipment (no oxygen cage). She got pissed at me. I told her the day she pays off my student debt is the day she can tell me what I will and won't do. (That'll also be the day I walk away from vet med).


I'm currently at the tail end of my notice.

Being stuck at a crappy clinic while working out a notice sucks (esoespecia a long notice).... but being able to handle a practice manager with no f*cks given is pretty rewarding!

Last Saturday, I had 23 patients scheduled between 8:30-12. With 2 assistants. I told my PM that was absurd, unacceptable, and a million other things. Then she ADDED ANOTHER. Someone who just HAD to come in for vax that weekend.

I should have walked out right then, but I hadn't yet talked to a lawyer about leaving in less than the 2 months notice my contract requests. (I'm only about halfway through right now.) So I didn't, but I did tell PM that I WILL do so if she pulls that crap again, because there is no ethical way that I can provide halfway-decent care to 6.9 pets/hr with only 2 assistants. And then, on Saturday, I told the receptionists to tell every single sick call-in that we were too overbooked to provide quality care to their pet and send 'em elsewhere. So that's what they did. Would have made a lot more sense to see them, instead of filling our Saturday with vaccines, but that's PM's problem.

We'll both survive our notices, somehow I'm currently reading The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck and I think it's helping.

 

[DVMDream]

Being stuck at a crappy clinic while working out a notice sucks (esoespecia a long notice).... but being able to handle a practice manager with no f*cks given is pretty rewarding!

Last Saturday, I had 23 patients scheduled between 8:30-12. With 2 assistants. I told my PM that was absurd, unacceptable, and a million other things. Then she ADDED ANOTHER. Someone who just HAD to come in for vax that weekend.

I should have walked out right then, but I hadn't yet talked to a lawyer about leaving in less than the 2 months notice my contract requests. (I'm only about halfway through right now.) So I didn't, but I did tell PM that I WILL do so if she pulls that crap again, because there is no ethical way that I can provide halfway-decent care to 6.9 pets/hr with only 2 assistants. And then, on Saturday, I told the receptionists to tell every single sick call-in that we were too overbooked to provide quality care to their pet and send 'em elsewhere. So that's what they did. Would have made a lot more sense to see them, instead of filling our Saturday with vaccines, but that's PM's problem.

We'll both survive our notices, somehow I'm currently reasrea The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck and I think it's helping.

I need to read that book.

I was recently left with an afternoon full of appointments in which I had two assistants but they are both untrained. So I can't take rads. I can't do in house bloodwork. I can't see any emergency. Luckily some people called and cancelled. So I blocked off the schedule for only vaccines, skin and ears. Then office manager gets pissed because clinic isn't making money. Yeah, well, I'm ****ing pissed too because that effects my income as well. I told her she's the only one to blame for that crap. Schedule better, hire more staff and fire the idiot assistant who is dumber than the wall in front of me.

I'm just over half way through my notice, somehow I'll make it. Just hoping one of these idiots doesn't kill a patient of mine before then.

I also had to give 2 months notice, however I live in an at will state and also told the OM that if she continues to pull BS, I will and can walk out and not come back.

 

[chickenlittle]

I need to read that book.

I was recently left with an afternoon full of appointments in which I had two assistants but they are both untrained. So I can't take rads. I can't do in house bloodwork. I can't see any emergency. Luckily some people called and cancelled. So I blocked off the schedule for only vaccines, skin and ears. Then office manager gets pissed because clinic isn't making money. Yeah, well, I'm ****ing pissed too because that effects my income as well. I told her she's the only one to blame for that crap. Schedule better, hire more staff and fire the idiot assistant who is dumber than the wall in front of me.

I'm just over half way through my notice, somehow I'll make it. Just hoping one of these idiots doesn't kill a patient of mine before then.

I also had to give 2 months notice, however I live in an at will state and also told the OM that if she continues to pull BS, I will and can walk out and not come back.

Yeah, I spoke with an employment attorney last weekend and now feel very comfortable walking out next time the **** hits the fan. My last day is May 18th, but I'll be surprised if I make it that long.

I keep hoping they'll ask me to leave, so I don't have to feel guilty for abandoning them. They're going to have a hard time finding another doc (both of the other clinics in town are also hiring and this is a poor, small-town area that doesn't attract many newcomers) and the clinic is way too busy for the other 2 docs to handle alone.

Well, they could run it with 2 docs, if they staffed appropriately and raised prices a bit, but they like being the cheapest/busiest in town and catering to the hoarder/breeder population.

We recently learned that the reason we get so many non-client euthanasias (many of which are blatant neglect cases or convenience euthanasias) is because we only charge $60....no exam required, just $60 (plus cremation for those that elect it - most just take them home to bury). The other 2 clinics charge $90-100. I suggested raising our price to $95, thinking that if we weren't the cheapest in town we wouldn't have to deal with the emotional mess of doing so many neglect/convenience/in-the-back-of-the-pickup euthanasias....we would end up primarily euthanizing our own patients, and maybe the occasional non-client. They instead decided to raise to $75, so we can still see just as many but make more profit to boost the manager's bonus.

Insane.

 

[DVMDream]

Yeah, I spoke with an employment attorney last weekend and now feel very comfortable walking out next time the **** hits the fan. My last day is May 18th, but I'll be surprised if I make it that long.

I keep hoping they'll ask me to leave, so I don't have to feel guilty for abandoning them. They're going to have a hard time finding another doc (both of the other clinics in town are also hiring and this is a poor, small-town area that doesn't attract many newcomers) and the clinic is way too busy for the other 2 docs to handle alone.

Well, they could run it with 2 docs, if they staffed appropriately and raised prices a bit, but they like being the cheapest/busiest in town and catering to the hoarder/breeder population.

We recently learned that the reason we get so many non-client euthanasias (many of which are blatant neglect cases or convenience euthanasias) is because we only charge $60....no exam required, just $60 (plus cremation for those that elect it - most just take them home to bury). The other 2 clinics charge $90-100. I suggested raising our price to $95, thinking that if we weren't the cheapest in town we wouldn't have to deal with the emotional mess of doing so many neglect/convenience/in-the-back-of-the-pickup euthanasias....we would end up primarily euthanizing our own patients, and maybe the occasional non-client. They instead decided to raise to $75, so we can still see just as many but make more profit to boost the manager's bonus.

Insane.

I can't roll my eyes hard enough at this bull****. My last day is May 8th, I'm hanging in there. But even today, the stupid assistant who probably has an IQ of 50, that's being nice has already ****ed up. Then lied about it. So the one good tech I have is looking to let her leave early because it really isn't worth keeping her here since she just makes mistakes. Which brings us to 1 tech and 1 receptionist, which is fine except for anything that needs two techs to do which is just about everything. And the office manager wonders why the clinic isn't pulling in money.

 

[Trilt]

I got an earful from our assistant manager on Saturday over my referral of a case.

The other doctor I work with had performed an exploratory on a dog just an hour or two before closing on Friday evening. The dog turned out to have a linear foreign body. The other doctor finished the surgery after closing, then called the owner to tell them that the surgery was more complicated than expected, the intestines didn't look to great, and the dog had vomited intra-op so it'd probably be best for him to come get the dog and take him to the e-clinic for 24 hour care. He didn't. The dog actually survived through the night left alone at work, but when I came in the next morning (I was the weekend doc) I learned that he had vomited/regurgitated profusely overnight and he was so lethargic that he'd barely stand. We're only open from 8:30-12 on Saturdays, so I basically called the owner and said he HAD to come get the dog and take it to the e-clinic, because hospitalizing him with us through the weekend when he'd only get checked twice a day was absolutely not adequate or appropriate. He did it, though he grumbled a bit about the inconvenience of having to drive ALL THE WAY to the e-clinic (2o minutes away) and said he thought we were a "one-stop shop."

After he left, the associate manager gave me crap!!! She said "we don't normally send them to the e-clinic in that scenario," Yeah, I've noticed, and that's why I gave my notice a few weeks ago! But seriously, it's another example of putting profit over patients. I know that this particular person is a good person who does care about animals, but she's been brainwashed by working in that messed-up old-school clinic for too long. Looking forward to getting out and not sure if I can tough out the rest of my 2-month notice.

IIRC don't you work at a Banfield? Thought they might be a little more willing to tell people to get to the damn referral hospital after the kerfuffle in fayetteville a couple weeks ago. Idiocy.

 

[chickenlittle]

IIRC don't you work at a Banfield? Thought they might be a little more willing to tell people to get to the damn referral hospital after the kerfuffle in fayetteville a couple weeks ago. Idiocy.

No, I left Banfield a year ago for an NVA hospital. (I had worked there before they went corporate and liked the idea of less evening/weekend work, since my daughter was starting kindergarten.) I'm actually going back to Banfield next month, but only 15 hrs/wk... my freelance writing has taken off and will more than make up the difference.

 

[DVMDream]

No, I left Banfield a year ago for an NVA hospital. (I had worked there before they went corporate and liked the idea of less evening/weekend work, since my daughter was starting kindergarten.) I'm actually going back to Banfield next month, but only 15 hrs/wk... my freelance writing has taken off and will more than make up the difference.

Do you offer paw plans? (Aka the bane of my existence).

 

[DVMDream]

No, I left Banfield a year ago for an NVA hospital. (I had worked there before they went corporate and liked the idea of less evening/weekend work, since my daughter was starting kindergarten.) I'm actually going back to Banfield next month, but only 15 hrs/wk... my freelance writing has taken off and will more than make up the difference.

Freelance writing ...tell me more.

 

[chickenlittle]

Do you offer paw plans? (Aka the bane of my existence).

Of course. And unlike Banfield's wellness plans, which actually WERE a huge benefit for some clients, they stink. Only 2 FVRCP vax on our kitten plans.... so most of our kitten patients don't even get vax after 12 wks

 

[chickenlittle]

Freelance writing ...tell me more.

I started out editing for Edanz.com, then started getting jobs on Upwork.com, and eventually also became a regular freelance contributor for LifeLearn. I LOVE IT. No client/money drama, no having to work when I'm sick, no too-busy-to-go-to-the-bathroom, treated with respect by my 'bosses' (like an actual professional!), can do it on my own schedule, and earn an hourly pay higher than I've ever made in a vet clinic. Total win.

 

[DVMDream]

Of course. And unlike Banfield's wellness plans, which actually WERE a huge benefit for some clients, they stink. Only 2 FVRCP vax on our kitten plans.... so most of our kitten patients don't even get vax after 12 wks

That's awful.

 

[chickenlittle]

That's awful.

Yep. And that's why I pretty much NEVER recommend paw plans, but unfortunately we have some receptionists who really talk them up. I'm not sure how our hospital did such a crappy job on creating the plans.... and how no one ever noticed that we weren't giving nearly enough vax? Our puppy plans only have 3 DAPPs, but that can at least be stretched out to adequate if you booster q4wks instead of q3wks. Two FVRCPs isn't enough under most circumstances. Hate paw plans.

 

[DVMDream]

Yep. And that's why I pretty much NEVER recommend paw plans, but unfortunately we have some receptionists who really talk them up. I'm not sure how our hospital did such a crappy job on creating the plans.... and how no one ever noticed that we weren't giving nearly enough vax? Our puppy plans only have 3 DAPPs, but that can at least be stretched out to adequate if you booster q4wks instead of q3wks. Two FVRCPs isn't enough under most circumstances. Hate paw plans.

Paw plans are awful. We redid ours recently (after 4 years) and office manager is pissed by the price increase. Umm, duh, it increased because we're providing more and because it has been 4 ****ing years.

 

[chickenlittle]

Paw plans are awful. We redid ours recently (after 4 years) and office manager is pissed by the price increase. Umm, duh, it increased because we're providing more and because it has been 4 ****ing years.

Looks like I'm leaving just in time... came in to this note this morning! Our work days are about to get 1/2 hr longer. No thanks. Buh bye.

 

[DVMDream]

Looks like I'm leaving just in time... came in to this note this morning! Our work days are about to get 1/2 hr longer. No thanks. Buh bye.

View attachment 233019

My first job was talking about staying open until 8PM instead of 7PM. I noped my way out of there. Especially since there was also talk of eventually having some 24 hour service.

 

[Caia]

Wow guys. That all sounds really terrible.

 

[dyachei]

you guys are making my practice seem better with every post