What are the cons of HPSP?

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swindoll

swindoll

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It sounds like a sweet deal, but it doesn't seem like many people want to do it, at least at my school. What is the catch?


Is it the risk of getting deployed to an area of conflict?
 
People don't want to be told what to do.
People have families.
People think the salary difference will be tremendously different.

Those 3 main points with many bullets under those categories.
 
The needs of the military outweigh your needs. You go where they tell you, and while you can certainly specialize in the military, and can even go into civilian residencies in some cases, your options are fewer for doing so with the HPSP than with not. Also, you'll be older when you start deciding where to live if you do the HPSP.

This was my biggest catch. Did my interviews and MEPS and most of the paperwork (complete by March 2015 to start dental school August 2020) with the Navy, but didn't go through with it and took a big gamble on getting into my state school. Had I not, I would have most certainly applied for a 3 year. They way it is now, I will have much more freedom to choose a specialty if that's what I end up being interested in, and if I don't, I'll have to hustle to pay back my (relatively) reasonable debt, but at least I'll be able to decide where to do so.

If I knew I had my heart set on being a general dentist I think I would have followed through and finished my application. It is a great deal if that's what your career goals are. If you want to specialize, you still can, but at that point you're that much closer to retirement and your baller ass pension, so that comes into play as well.
 
You have to give 4 years of your life to the military.

I'd need about 20 pros to be able to cover than one con.
 
I've spoken to lots of pre-dents at my school about this.
Here are their reasons, in no particular order:

1. Deployments to combat zones. Army is up to nine months now for dentists (could increase in future again).

2. Little to no control over where they may be assigned/sent. You may WANT to be in San Diego, but if you're assigned to an aircraft carrier off in the middle of the Indian Ocean....you're going. no questions asked.

3. Military schedule. Physical fitness tests twice a year, some dentists have to train with their unit every day for P.T. Also, if you want that 4-day workweek, kiss it good-bye. Military is five days a week. If you're in a ship underway, or are deployed overseas, you work more (I have heard this from multiple Army and Navy dentists).

4. Income. Income is about $85K/yr and slowly increases (but then again you are debt-free). Doesn't become significant until you specialize. But it's hard to get into some specialties right out of school. And even then, you don't get the specialty bonus until you sign an additional contract/commit more time AND finish the payback for the specialty (which can be concurrent with the HPSP payback, depending on when you specialize).

5. Delay to private practice. If you want to go into solo private practice- which, let's face it, is a unique thing to dentistry that draws so many....being your own boss, etc.- then those four years that you spend in the military are four years that are lost that could've been spent growing your practice and increasing your income potential.

6. Your life. Most pre-dents would spend their late-20s/early-30s in the military. This is a very high-quality part of life....they'd rather enjoy it with their friends after a hard day's work instead of going to sleep in a tent in the Middle East.

7. Current world events- It appears that deployment lengths are increasing as things begin to heat up around the world. We also have a presidential election coming up soon, and that can change things. So that deserves some consideration.
 
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swindoll said:
Yeah, but you'll be debt-free
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Your soul for 4 years (plus 4 years of inactive duty during which you can be recalled if another war pops up, looking at you ISIS) is hardly debt free. You're paying your debts for 4 years minimum, 8 years max, during which you have little to no say in your practice conditions, where you live, how your day is structured, etc etc. Do what you want, but be aware that free isn't free.
 
cacajuate said:
You have to give 4 years of your life to the military.

I'd need about 20 pros to be able to cover than one con.
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what life do you have when 2-3k is cut out from your paycheck for the next 15-20 years? Why would you want to go through dental school and at the end be in debt for that amount of time?
 
AVB2104 said:
what life do you have when 2-3k is cut out from your paycheck for the next 15-20 years? Why would you want to go through dental school and at the end be in debt for that amount of time?
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Different people have different perspectives.
I personally agree with your point of view, which is why I am trying my best to get an HPSP.

But others agree with @cacajuate 's point of view, which is also strong. $2K/mo, in exchange for freedom to live wherever you want, however you want, and practice dentistry in the manner you want, is a compelling argument.
 
Mad Jack said:
Your soul for 4 years (plus 4 years of inactive duty during which you can be recalled if another war pops up, looking at you ISIS) is hardly debt free. You're paying your debts for 4 years minimum, 8 years max, during which you have little to no say in your practice conditions, where you live, how your day is structured, etc etc. Do what you want, but be aware that free isn't free.
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Right in the feels. I will say that the likelihood of being pulled off the IRR for those last four years is virtually nil.

I think @Incis0r did a great job of hitting the major points.
 
Being forced to travel frequently

Low salary

4 years active duty + 4 years of the reserves
 
ClosetNerd828 said:
If you don't actually want to be in the military and only want to be debt free - you are going to hate your life for a few years...
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who the hell wants to be in the military unless they have to?? its called making sacrfices for what you think is important.
 
AVB2104 said:
who the hell wants to be in the military unless they have to?? its called making sacrfices for what you think is important.
Click to expand...
a lot of people...... like everyone in the military because it's an all volunteer force... Do your thing though, get your free education, do it because you want be debt free and then get out. Just know there are plenty of people who are there because they WANT TO BE
 
ClosetNerd828 said:
a lot of people...... like everyone in the military because it's an all volunteer force... Do your thing though, get your free education, do it because you want be debt free and then get out. Just know there are plenty of people who are there because they WANT TO BE
Click to expand...

I never said this before, but I respect you a lot. Thank you for your service!
 
AVB2104 said:
who the hell wants to be in the military unless they have to?? its called making sacrfices for what you think is important.
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I do.
You don't HAVE to be in the military. It sounds like you are making sacrifices only to eliminate your debt.
But what about the BM3 that gets a tooth knocked out during an UNREP detail? Or how about taking care of the soldier in the turret who had half his teeth sheared off when his MRAP got hit? What would give you more satisfaction? Treating those cases, or some of the unnecessary aesthetic procedures people get because of their vanity?
I'm the farthest thing from Joe Navy, but unless you reevaluate some of the other benefits of your SERVICE, your time in the Navy will be quite miserable, Shipmate.
 
See how quickly a couple military members came together? The military is not something that can be explained, it has to be experienced. Much love to @Incis0r @schmoob I wish you the best in military and civilian careers.

EDIT: You too @AVB2104 , I'm sure the military will grow on you, you'll see.. and anyway.. you'll be in the NAVY.. it wont be THAT bad hahahahaha
 
We have men and women that are sent to "conflict areas" where they are actually surrounded by danger. Dentists and Doctors sent to "conflict areas" are in green zones which are beyond safe. correct me if im wrong but as far as i know there has never been a dentist killed on deployment. I dont feel like most pre dental/dental students are very prudent now days. if you call $3-5k per month for 10-20 years ($30,000 per year accumulated in interest for most!) freedom, then enjoy your freedom!!!

first 4 years out of school for an HPSP recepient: $85-95k +$100k (private school tuition + fees + living) =~ $200k

not to mention the other savings such as malpractice and all of the interest that would accumulate.

how many dentists average $200k per year for their first 4 years out? not many!

then again, when debt is still 4-5 years away its easy to put it in the back of your mind and act like it will be easily taken care of. for some in successful private practice it will. for most, it will be a burden that lasts decades.

Im excited to serve and I have a wife who is excited to travel (shes a PA student and will either work as a civilian or for the Army dependent on where we go) we are young and look forward to the experiences and opportunities. We are not naive, it will be frustrating at times but once again, the alternative would most likely be more frustrating.
 
I understand where these people are talking about 4 years of service vs 15+ years of lone repayment, but I'd much rather move to the complete boonies or wherever is paying that $200k+ (yes they exist in certain places--just no one wants to live there) for 4 years and pay down my debt in its entirety. After a couple years and in the right place I know people clearing $300k, just gotta be the only dentist or two in the county. However my loans aren't bad enough to do either of those options. Just a thought.

The military is just more of a sure thing. But I think that's part of the reason why a lot of my professors in school were military dentists, just more risk averse personalities-- which is a detriment in private practice a lot of the time.
 
Screwtape said:
I'd much rather move to the complete boonies or wherever is paying that $200k+ (yes they exist in certain places--just no one wants to live there) for 4 years and pay down my debt in its entirety.
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I agree. It's all a matter of personal opinion.

I personally am interested in the idea of being stationed in Japan, or Diego Garcia, or Guam or on an aircraft carrier with the Navy, or jumping off of a plane/getting to fire weapons at a range and being in a combat zone (Army). I want those experiences.

To each their own!
 
gatsby121 said:
We have men and women that are sent to "conflict areas" where they are actually surrounded by danger. Dentists and Doctors sent to "conflict areas" are in green zones which are beyond safe. correct me if im wrong but as far as i know there has never been a dentist killed on deployment.
Click to expand...

I agree with much of what you said, but LTJG'S Alexander Lyle and Weedon Osborne were killed and posthumously awarded the MoH.

ClosetNerd828 said:
hahaha yea didnt see many dentists on patrol... or the COP...... or anywhere...
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Shots across the bow! Haha nice.
In all seriousness, we had only a few for the whole RC who would get helo'd in. We didn't have one permanently on the FOB. LOTS of helo flying past lots of mountain ridges; I did not envy them.

Side note: the two MoH recipients I mentioned; both Navy. Oh snap! 🙂
 
schmoob said:
I agree with much of what you said, but LTJG'S Alexander Lyle and Weedon Osborne were killed and posthumously awarded the MoH.


Shots across the bow! Haha nice.
In all seriousness, we had only a few for the whole RC who would get helo'd in. We didn't have one permanently on the FOB. LOTS of helo flying past lots of mountain ridges; I did not envy them.

Side note: the two MoH recipients I mentioned; both Navy. Oh snap! 🙂
Click to expand...

interesting!

and good to know even though one died in 1918 and the other in the 50s!! id say Dental officers have pretty good odds of surviving their commitment 😛
 
I think the last 13 games speak for themselves. ..😉

You folks going to watch the game tomorrow?

gatsby121 said:
We have men and women that are sent to "conflict areas" where they are actually surrounded by danger. Dentists and Doctors sent to "conflict areas" are in green zones which are beyond safe. correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know there has never been a dentist killed on deployment.
Click to expand...

Corrected!
 
I want to be a dentist because of the ability to be autonomous in my practice. The military is the complete opposite of that.
 
schmoob said:
But what about the BM3 that gets a tooth knocked out during an UNREP detail? Or how about taking care of the soldier in the turret who had half his teeth sheared off when his MRAP got hit? What would give you more satisfaction? Treating those cases, or some of the unnecessary aesthetic procedures people get because of their vanity?
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I want to join. This plus the camaraderie.
 
So I spoke to some military dentists recently. They told me that they keep in touch with their colleagues, including those that have done their time and decided to move on from the military. They all say that what they miss most is the camaraderie.
None of us are naive, we all know money is important. I just think that besides money, there are also other important aspects of professional satisfaction.
 
here is my take on the situation, in no random order:

the process of applying is an extensive one. so many forms and what not need to be signed...make sure you read everything once and over again and over again. make sure it is worth it to you financially, emotionally, physically

now regarding the benefits of the HPSP. if you go to a private school, the pros certainly outweigh the cons. financially speaking, it can't be beat especially for general dentistry.

specializing can go either way. when you are in longer, as i was told, other factors come into play which make you competitive for specialties. that can possibly work to your advantage.

regarding missed private practice time-while most of your classmates will most likely be working for a dental chain, working tirelessly to pay off their student debt, you will have a stable job with no pressure to produce. as a result, you will develop your speed in a more efficient and stress free manner. and i say stress free because, again, you can't be fired for not producing. i think that's something that a lot of people don't realize...you're only worth as much as you can produce out in the civilian world. so yeah, you can move to sunny LA and get a job as an associate being paid less than an ideal starting salary, but if your skills aren't up to par...you're done. so take away what you will from the situation.

should you decide to get out, having military experience on your resume will set you apart from your peers when you apply for jobs. it's not something that's just looked over.
 
Screwtape said:
I understand where these people are talking about 4 years of service vs 15+ years of lone repayment, but I'd much rather move to the complete boonies or wherever is paying that $200k+ (yes they exist in certain places--just no one wants to live there) for 4 years and pay down my debt in its entirety. After a couple years and in the right place I know people clearing $300k, just gotta be the only dentist or two in the county. However my loans aren't bad enough to do either of those options. Just a thought.

The military is just more of a sure thing. But I think that's part of the reason why a lot of my professors in school were military dentists, just more risk averse personalities-- which is a detriment in private practice a lot of the time.
Click to expand...

agreed, these places do exist, and i know people working in these areas as well. but to just simply say that you'll pack up and move to these areas is easier said than done. i know recent grads who are making excellent money, and believe it or not, there are people who aren't making much money at all. not to mention, in a lot of these areas, corporate dentistry is booming

given the situation of not knowing where you're going to live or what could happen due to structural changes within the government i wouldn't consider it to be a ''sure thing'', nor would i consider military dentists to be 'risk averse'. bold generalization there my friend.
 
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Do the NHSC scholarship. The best, and only (that I know of), alternative to HPSP.
 
Bis-GMA111 said:
regarding missed private practice time-while most of your classmates will most likely be working for a dental chain, working tirelessly to pay off their student debt, you will have a stable job with no pressure to produce. as a result, you will develop your speed in a more efficient and stress free manner. and i say stress free because, again, you can't be fired for not producing. i think that's something that a lot of people don't realize...you're only worth as much as you can produce out in the civilian world. so yeah, you can move to sunny LA and get a job as an associate being paid less than an ideal starting salary, but if your skills aren't up to par...you're done. so take away what you will from the situation.
Click to expand...

This is a critical point. Not everyone goes into private practice straight out of dental school, and it's quite likely that one will work for a corp or as an associate for another dentist right out of school, and that the position will be paid based on production.

Meanwhile, as Bis said, the military dentist can focus on just delivering excellent care, knowing that his/her paycheck is guaranteed no matter what.
 
Bis-GMA111 said:
agreed, these places do exist, and i know people working in these areas as well. but to just simply say that you'll pack up and move to these areas is easier said than done. i know recent grads who are making excellent money, and believe it or not, there are people who aren't making much money at all. not to mention, in a lot of these areas, corporate dentistry is booming

given the situation of not knowing where you're going to live or what could happen due to structural changes within the government i wouldn't consider it to be a ''sure thing'', nor would i consider military dentists to be 'risk averse'. bold generalization there my friend.
Click to expand...
It is a sure thing (virtually--I'm not sure what you mean by structural changes and their effect on people with the HPSP already) in the fact that you will be loan free and practice wherever you want in 4 years versus the alternative I stated. And yes I agree that my statement was a bold generalization about military dentists, but I think there is some truth in it. Taking out $X00,000 loans without a sure thing like the military to pay it back is a pretty large risk. Going military is a more risk averse option in financing dental school...

I'm not trying to dog on military in any way, its a great option for a lot of people!
 
Screwtape said:
It is a sure thing (virtually--I'm not sure what you mean by structural changes and their effect on people with the HPSP already) in the fact that you will be loan free and practice wherever you want in 4 years versus the alternative I stated. And yes I agree that my statement was a bold generalization about military dentists, but I think there is some truth in it. Taking out $X00,000 loans without a sure thing like the military to pay it back is a pretty large risk. Going military is a more risk averse option in financing dental school...

I'm not trying to dog on military in any way, its a great option for a lot of people!
Click to expand...

1. that is false-you go wherever you are needed. you have a ''wishlist'' but that isn't always accommodated.
2. financially, yes i agree it's more risk averse.
 
Bis-GMA111 said:
1. that is false-you go wherever you are needed. you have a ''wishlist'' but that isn't always accommodated.
2. financially, yes i agree it's more risk averse.
Click to expand...
I think he meant you can practice wherever you want after 4 years, meaning post-military.
 
Anchors Aweigh, Midshipmen! Beating Army 14-10.
 
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Congrats Navy! You guys brought it home again.
 
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