What are the REAL T10 medical schools by reputation/training/research opportunities?

[LizzyM]

Horses, tractors, barns, and land have their appeal too

Some people do like fishing, hunting, snowmobiling, hiking, mountain biking, etc.

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[LizzyM]

Not every rural underserved area is farmland Trump country, and there are rural patients who come from diverse backgrounds. Culture may spread better with high speed internet but each town needs to approve its importance and maintain it. Same thing with physicians. Rural underserved were/are vehemently anti vaccine during COVID-19 even if they appreciate the relatively free care they were getting.

My own thought was to require 2 years at least of service similar to NHSC (doctors, dentists, pharmacists, nurses) before going to the Match and specializing (and it won't ever happen). It surprises me how much of the country is medically underserved.

The downside to that idea would be that there would be tremendous turnover and a loss of continuity of care for some of the most medically vulnerable. We need people who want to commit to specific communities for decades. My mom just lost the doctor who has cared for her since 1977. He was a gem. We need more people like that.

 

[KnightDoc]

It's not what I think. It's what I KNOW. I am around these "super stars" everyday. Trust me, they are not special as you think. Most of us figured out the admissions game well so we are where we are. Student quality between a T5 and a T50 is almost indistinguishable. Stats are not that indicative of much other than you work hard and are beyond a certain level of intelligence threshold. It's not nature vs. nurture. It's hard enough to even get into an unranked school. So once you are in any USMD program, you are already beyond the threshold that's required for any level of success in medicine. So it's all nurture from there on. T5 schools are special but their students are not.

You might be correct, but you might just be very humble and unimpressed with people like yourself. I don't know myself, because I'm not there yet.

But, FWIW, I definitely observed a noticeable difference during my interview days. An admittedly small sample size, but the difference was far from indistinguishable to me, even though getting that far, at any school, is unquestionably an accomplishment.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

You might be correct, but you might just be very humble and unimpressed with people like yourself. I don't know myself, because I'm not there yet.

But, FWIW, I definitely observed a noticeable difference during my interview days. An admittedly small sample size, but the difference was far from indistinguishable to me, even though getting that far, at any school, is unquestionably an accomplishment.

There are super smart and hardworking people everywhere. But the truth is that this whole admissions game doesn’t really reward smarts and diligence very much. Instead a lot of soft qualities that are super manipulatible are weighted a lot more. That’s why every year you have people who are smart and hardworking but only got into a low tier school. On the other hand, some others got into a top school with far less raw intelligence and diligence.

I just hate to perpetuate this false notion of student superiority at top medical schools. Tbh, what I am learning is the same as someone attending an unranked school. And tbh, that person most likely works a lot harder than I in order to pass their exam and get honors and ect., because where I am, it’s all p/f. I am just lucky to be at a top school.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

1. In many derm practices these days, you are likely to be initially seen by a PA. If you have a simple problem, there is a fair chance that you will never see a doctor.

2. Cash pay cosmetic “derm” is the Wild West even in big cities. There is no regulatory barrier to entry for doctors. You just need to attend a few weekend Allergan courses. The barrier is actually financial because you’ll bleed money until things get up and running. I have a friend, board certified anesthesiologist who transitioned to a 100% Botox/filler/laser practice. He has been able to master marketing…(yelp, social media, billboards,etc) for which we have no training. His practice has boomed, he’s hired multiple NPs to staff multiple offices. And now he lives the Aston/g wagon/boats/heliskiing lifestyle. I don’t think this would be possible in a rural area because there would not be as much demand.

He’s allowed to do these things as an anesthesiologist? I always thought this was more of a derm/(plastics?) thing

 

[efle]

He’s allowed to do these things as an anesthesiologist? I always thought this was more of a derm/(plastics?) thing

Dude in a lot of places you don't even need to be a doctor to start a "spa" and give botox

Also not sure if it was mentioned already, but didn't NYU have its first free-tuition match this year, with zero people going into FM? Wonder if the other schools currently working on free tuition endowments are going to claim the same nonsense justification about primary care access.

 

[NegativeMargin]

I always find it peculiar when race slips into discussing the pros and cons of urban vs rural as I am on the receiving end of far more racist acts in bigger cities than in smaller towns and it's not even close. Same goes for the rest of my family whether Black, Latinx, Native American, or Caucasian, in Milwaukee, Chicago, the Twin Cities, or Phoenix. Pretty much across the board in their experiences.

Reading this thread I think people may be reading too much into news articles that talk about rural areas as 3rd world countries, and as is the case with most discussions on this website, people don't define the terms they are using before using them. To some, a rural area could be any city with less than 250,000 people, while for others it may be less than 100,000.. in any case, people are entitled to like what they like and justify it however they want. But with big cities hemorrhaging population and cities on the threshold of these 100k/250k boundaries flourishing, I hope the discussions about these locations can evolve in the same way.

 

[KnightDoc]

Dude in a lot of places you don't even need to be a doctor to start a "spa" and give botox

Also not sure if it was mentioned already, but didn't NYU have its first free-tuition match this year, with zero people going into FM? Wonder if the other schools currently working on free tuition endowments are going to claim the same nonsense justification about primary care access.

Yes and no. The class entering in 2018 was the first with free tuition, but they did not know that until the White Coat Ceremony, so you can't count it, at least not in terms of NYU using it to pull people away from other schools.

The first class applying that knew tuition was free before making a decision was the class applying in 2018 for entry in 2019, and even then, people applying just to chase free tuition were late, since it wasn't announced until mid August. The first class that knew NYU was tuition free from the get-go was the class applying in 2019-20, i.e., the Class of 2024.

 

[efle]

I always find it peculiar when race slips into discussing the pros and cons of urban vs rural as I am on the receiving end of far more racist acts in bigger cities than in smaller towns and it's not even close. Same goes for the rest of my family whether Black, Latinx, Native American, or Caucasian, in Milwaukee, Chicago, the Twin Cities, or Phoenix. Pretty much across the board in their experiences.

Reading this thread I think people may be reading too much into news articles that talk about rural areas as 3rd world countries, and as is the case with most discussions on this website, people don't define the terms they are using before using them. To some, a rural area could be any city with less than 250,000 people, while for others it may be less than 100,000.. in any case, people are entitled to like what they like and justify it however they want. But with big cities hemorrhaging population and cities on the threshold of these 100k/250k boundaries flourishing, I hope the discussions about these locations can evolve in the same way.

Idk if you just had bad luck in the cities you lived in, but life in the sticks is 100% objectively lower educated, lower income, more religious, more conservative. Look at a county map of the Trump election and tell me with a straight face the population centers are the problem

 

[FluffyCat1212]

What about Hollywood Upstairs, or St Swithens?

Wow can't believe I missed those distinguished institutions. Thank you for bringing them to my attention.

 

[eigen]

Idk if you just had bad luck in the cities you lived in, but life in the sticks is 100% objectively lower educated, lower income, more religious, more conservative. Look at a county map of the Trump election and tell me with a straight face the population centers are the problem

There are places that are rural, lower average educational attainment and income that are conservative and religious that are not majority white, and the experience in those places will be quite different with respect to issues of race and racism. Similarly, there are urban areas that are very white and experience significant racial issues.

A large number of the majority black counties in the US are in the rural southeast. Most of the majority Native American counties are in the rural west and midwest. A large number of the majority hispanic counties in the US are in the rural southwest and west coast, including parts of central Washington. (edit: nice summary maps from a few years ago here In a rising number of U.S. counties, Hispanic and black Americans are the majority)

So while there are also a large number of places that are rural and see significant racial issues, the two aren't as clearly related as your post makes it seem.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Also, it is pretty hard to use blue/red as a proxy for regional levels of racism. Some cities in the northeast (ie Boston) and Pacific Northwest are notorious for being racist (not all but some people in these areas) despite having Democrat supermajorities, consistently sending democrats to Washington etc.

 

[nimbus]

He’s allowed to do these things as an anesthesiologist? I always thought this was more of a derm/(plastics?) thing

Many people do this. Marketing is more important than training or qualifications. And the product makers are more than happy to train you and sell you the injectables. Not only anesthesia as above but also OB/gyn, FP, ophtho, ENT, EM, etc.

 

[deleted1065184]

I just love how rural = white for so many folks, when so much of the rural South is majority Black lol...like my family exists, I promise.

And as a group, Black folks are the most left-leaning racial group in the country. But yes, let's continue to hyperfocus on the white parts of the rural South, places like Mississippi where the state population is almost 40% Black. This erasure helps to enable disenfranchisement, btw.

 

[deleted1065184]

Also, it is pretty hard to use blue/red as a proxy for regional levels of racism. Some cities in the northeast (ie Boston) and Pacific Northwest are notorious for being racist (not all but some people in these areas) despite having Democrat supermajorities, consistently sending democrats to Washington etc.

Agreed. Also, I've lived in both rural and urban areas, and the plight of BIPOC certainly isn't any better in the cities (anecdotally, it's actually even worse in most cases). The idea that blue = less racist is just wrong. The racism may manifest differently in certain places, but it's still there.

 

[deleted1065184]

Also, can we shift this back to debating over where we all subjectively think schools should be placed on the prestige hierarchy? Lol.

 

[efle]

Fair enough, I was thinking about white folks in rural midwest vs cities I've lived in, I imagine something like a native american reservation would be "rural" without the same culture/racism attached.

To bridge slightly back towards the thread topic, it's really impressive to me that some of these "top ranking" institutions can compete when they are in awful locations. Baltimore, St Louis, Rochester MN, south Chicago, New Haven, etc. I would have thought over time the schools in places like Boston, San Fran and LA, NYC would all be preferred by the vast majority of people choosing between them (both student recruitment and residents and faculty)

 

[deleted1065184]

Depends on your definition of awful lol, because I'd choose Baltimore or St. Louis over Boston and SF any day...esp Boston. Super expensive plus horrible weather lol. SF has amazing weather but is way too expensive.

Also, I think the forum kinda skews towards folks who are from the West Coast or Northeast, but many of us legit have no desire to live in those areas. And I think this is actually reflected to some degree by migration patterns, because the fastest growing cities/states are largely in the South.


I feel like schools such as Emory, Baylor, and Vandy, which are all in consistently booming Southern cities, should be gaining national popularity more quickly than they are.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I would have thought over time the schools in places like Boston, San Fran and LA, NYC would all be preferred by the vast majority of people choosing between them (both student recruitment and residents and faculty)

I feel like a lot of people on this site conflate desirability with practicality. These cities are all fun to visit and live (to an extent) if one has the means to afford a decent lifestyle. But for most other people, they can live much better in some of the other cities you mention.

For example, I just signed a lease for an apartment right downtown in a midwestern city (about 1200 square ft, gym, indoor pool) for The same property in the city that I’m living in now would easily be double or even triple if downtown.

 

[KnightDoc]

I feel like schools such as Emory, Baylor, and Vandy, which are all in consistently booming Southern cities, should be gaining national popularity more quickly than they are.

???????????????

I don't know about Vandy, but have you taken a look at the admission stats for the other two? Baylor just withdrew from AMCAS last year to join its TX brethren on TMDSAS, where the baseline is 90%+ IS acceptances, although as a private school it is not subject to that requirement. Making it more difficult for OOS applicants to even apply, plus the signal that it intends to increase its IS preference, is hardly a recipe to increase national popularity.

Emory interviews 16% of its IS applicants and around 5.5% OOS. It's already extremely popular in terms of OOS applications (around 10,000 OOS vs. around 700 IS), but is still pretty parochial in terms of its IS preference, particularly for a private school. It's not going to be any more popular nationally than it already is unless it chooses to reduce or eliminate this preference.

 

[nimbus]

Depends on your definition of awful lol, because I'd choose Baltimore or St. Louis over Boston and SF any day...esp Boston. Super expensive plus horrible weather lol. SF has amazing weather but is way too expensive.

Also, I think the forum kinda skews towards folks who are from the West Coast or Northeast, but many of us legit have no desire to live in those areas. And I think this is actually reflected to some degree by migration patterns, because the fastest growing cities/states are largely in the South.


I feel like schools such as Emory, Baylor, and Vandy, which are all in consistently booming Southern cities, should be gaining national popularity more quickly than they are.

The coasts certainly have no monopoly on brains, drive, and talent. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Univ of Nebraska or Univ of Iowa enroll many students who would be competitive for admission to a top 5 school but have no desire to go there.

 

[deleted1065184]

???????????????

I don't know about Vandy, but have you taken a look at the admission stats for the other two? Baylor just withdrew from AMCAS last year to join its TX brethren on TMDSAS, where the baseline is 90%+ IS acceptances, although as a private school it is not subject to that requirement. Making it more difficult for OOS applicants to even apply, plus the signal that it intends to increase its IS preference, is hardly a recipe to increase national popularity.

Emory interviews 16% of its IS applicants and around 5.5% OOS. It's already extremely popular in terms of OOS applications (around 10,000 OOS vs. around 700 IS), but is still pretty parochial in terms of its IS preference, particularly for a private school. It's not going to be any more popular nationally than it already is unless it chooses to reduce or eliminate this preference.

Popularity wasn't really the best choice of words...I'm thinking more about prestige/reputation. I know there are tons of factors tied up in that, but my point was largely in response to the fact that some huge name schools in areas that are less desirable for some are able to compete with other huge name schools in more desirable areas.

And considering the location of the schools plus prestige that already exists, I'd expect them to be competing for even more cream of the crop applicants with the big name schools. And in all fairness, I don't know the details of who chooses them so maybe they are. But anecdotally on SDN, the X vs Y posts involving one huge name tend to also be involving another huge name. The Baylor point is fair though, they don't belong in this convo. Lol.

Like, I personally don't think there's a meaningful resource difference within the top 25-30ish schools as ranked for research by USNWR (regarding MD-only, that is...several differences exist for folks interested in MD/PhD). So if a student has a full ride between Hopkins vs Emory or WashU vs Emory and no strong ties to Baltimore or St. Louis, I'd expect more folks to choose Emory given the more desirable location. But the truth is most students would still choose Hopkins or WashU.

 

[deleted1065184]

The coasts certainly have no monopoly on brains, drive, and talent. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Univ of Nebraska or Univ of Iowa enroll many students who would be competitive for admission to a top 5 school but have no desire to go there.

Most definitely!

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Fair enough, I was thinking about white folks in rural midwest vs cities I've lived in, I imagine something like a native american reservation would be "rural" without the same culture/racism attached.

To bridge slightly back towards the thread topic, it's really impressive to me that some of these "top ranking" institutions can compete when they are in awful locations. Baltimore, St Louis, Rochester MN, south Chicago, New Haven, etc. I would have thought over time the schools in places like Boston, San Fran and LA, NYC would all be preferred by the vast majority of people choosing between them (both student recruitment and residents and faculty)

other than hopkins, the rest of the places are actually losing to institutions of similar caliber but in a better location. To some extent, Hopkins is also losing to its peer schools due to its bad location. Hopkins vs Harvard, WashU vs. Penn, Mayo vs. Northwestern, and even UChicago vs. Northwestern, and finally Yale vs. Columbia. A lot of people would choose the latter for the location.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Popularity wasn't really the best choice of words...I'm thinking more about prestige/reputation. I know there are tons of factors tied up in that, but my point was largely in response to the fact that some huge name schools in areas that are less desirable for some are able to compete with other huge name schools in more desirable areas.

And considering the location of the schools plus prestige that already exists, I'd expect them to be competing for even more cream of the crop applicants with the big name schools. And in all fairness, I don't know the details of who chooses them so maybe they are. But anecdotally on SDN, the X vs Y posts involving one huge name tend to also be involving another huge name. The Baylor point is fair though, they don't belong in this convo. Lol.

Like, I personally don't think there's a meaningful resource difference within the top 25-30ish schools as ranked for research by USNWR (regarding MD-only, that is...several differences exist for folks interested in MD/PhD). So if a student has a full ride between Hopkins vs Emory or WashU vs Emory and no strong ties to Baltimore or St. Louis, I'd expect more folks to choose Emory given the more desirable location. But the truth is most students would still choose Hopkins or WashU.

in terms of resources, I think Hopkins and WashU beat Emory hands down. Folks from the South tend to think highly of Emory, but the rest of the nation thinks differently.

 

[efle]

I was also personally looking for cheaper living as a student, but based on how wealthy most of my classmates were (and how much practicing physicians earn, even at academic settings) I am still surprised. To be fair the attendings usually live out in the suburbs or handful of gentrified neighborhoods.

 

[deleted1065184]

in terms of resources, I think Hopkins and WashU beat Emory hands down. Folks from the South tend to think highly of Emory, but the rest of the nation thinks differently.

I think you're misunderstanding. Hopkins and WashU do have more resources than Emory, but it's not enough that it actually matters to medical students. ~$600-800M in NIH funding (WashU and Hopkins) is just not going to matter to a medical student compared to ~$500M (Emory). Nobody is ever gonna convince me that's a meaningful difference for anybody who isn't getting a PhD in biomedical research lol

 

[deleted1065184]

I was also personally looking for cheaper living as a student, but based on how wealthy most of my classmates were (and how much practicing physicians earn, even at academic settings) I am still surprised. To be fair the attendings usually live out in the suburbs or handful of gentrified neighborhoods.

Fair enough, I sometimes forget how wealthy medicine skews.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I think you're misunderstanding. Hopkins and WashU do have more resources than Emory, but it's not enough that it actually matters to medical students. ~$600-800M in NIH funding (WashU and Hopkins) is just not going to matter to a medical student compared to ~$500M (Emory). Nobody is ever gonna convince me that's a meaningful difference for anybody who isn't getting a PhD in biomedical research lol

Yeah.. the South gets a ding lol

 

[deleted1065184]

Yeah.. the South gets a ding lol

Which doesn't make sense, bc people are going *from* STL and Baltimore but *to* Atlanta. So why is there a ding?

 

[nimbus]

I was also personally looking for cheaper living as a student, but based on how wealthy most of my classmates were (and how much practicing physicians earn, even at academic settings) I am still surprised. To be fair the attendings usually live out in the suburbs or handful of gentrified neighborhoods.

When I was attending medical school in NYC, some of my attendings and other faculty lived in publicly subsidized housing. My advisor, a microbiologist, lived in a fantastic university owned 3br apartment in Greenwich village. Others lived in rent controlled apartments in Waterside and Peter Cooper Village.

 

[KnightDoc]

Popularity wasn't really the best choice of words...I'm thinking more about prestige/reputation. I know there are tons of factors tied up in that, but my point was largely in response to the fact that some huge name schools in areas that are less desirable for some are able to compete with other huge name schools in more desirable areas.

And considering the location of the schools plus prestige that already exists, I'd expect them to be competing for even more cream of the crop applicants with the big name schools. And in all fairness, I don't know the details of who chooses them so maybe they are. But anecdotally on SDN, the X vs Y posts involving one huge name tend to also be involving another huge name. The Baylor point is fair though, they don't belong in this convo. Lol.

Like, I personally don't think there's a meaningful resource difference within the top 25-30ish schools as ranked for research by USNWR (regarding MD-only, that is...several differences exist for folks interested in MD/PhD). So if a student has a full ride between Hopkins vs Emory or WashU vs Emory and no strong ties to Baltimore or St. Louis, I'd expect more folks to choose Emory given the more desirable location. But the truth is most students would still choose Hopkins or WashU.

I totally agree with you. They are all great schools, but, at the end of the day, people still slave to rankings and perceived prestige.

This is why everyone absolutely LOVES places like NYU, until they receive equivalent monetary packages from places like Harvard, Penn, Hopkins, UCSF, etc. Then all of a sudden they can't bring themselves to pull the NYU trigger.

The Emorys and Vandys of the world will never overcome that. And it's too bad, because you are 1,000,000% right. They are great schools in great locations that have all the resources and prestige necessary to get anyone wherever it is that they are going.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I totally agree with you. They are all great schools, but, at the end of the day, people still slave to rankings and perceived prestige.

This is why everyone absolutely LOVES places like NYU, until they receive equivalent monetary packages from places like Harvard, Penn, Hopkins, UCSF, etc. Then all of a sudden they can't bring themselves to pull the NYU trigger.

The Emorys and Vandys of the world will never overcome that. And it's too bad, because you are 1,000,000% right. They are great schools in great locations that have all the resources and prestige necessary to get anyone wherever it is that they are going.

That’s also why t5’s like Harvard and UCSF will not go tuition free. They just have to match NYU for certain people, which indeed is happening, judging from so many NYU vs X threads this year. A lot cheaper this way.

 

[KnightDoc]

That’s also why t5’s like Harvard and UCSF will not go tuition free. They just have to match NYU for certain people. A lot cheaper this way.

We'll see. Never is a very long time. I asked about it when NYU made their announcement. No one was impressed. Since then, Penn, Hopkins, WashU, Chicago, Northwestern, etc., have suddenly found significant merit money for at least some of their applicants. Since the successful applicants are pretty much the same at all of these schools, as you implied earlier today, at some point they will find themselves matching one school or another for just about everyone, at which point why not just go the rest of the way?

Schools like Harvard, Columbia, etc. that are still holding the line on merit money still win when they offer equivalent need-based grants. Let's just see what happens if NYU's matches start looking exactly like Harvard's and UCSF's, and the perceived prestige gap closes to the point where people start choosing NYU over the others even when the money is equivalent.

I'm sorry, but the trend is pretty clear to me. I just have no idea how long it will take to get there.

Between merit and need based grants, just how many people are actually paying full price today at the top schools? I doubt every school in NYU's tier lacks the ability to raise the same endowment NYU did. They just choose not to. It's not about being "cheaper" or forgoing the money necessary to run the school. It's just about raising it from wealthy donors instead of students, many of whom do not want to (or simply cannot) burden their parents with the costs, or begin their careers hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

Let's just see how long they can get away with that as people continue to clue into the fact that #12 really will get them to the exact same place as #2. People today, right here on SDN, are turning down #25 for #Nothing due to money.

It's easy to preach how one simply cannot put a price on the advantages Harvard will confer for a lifetime. And then someone is faced with signing a master promissory note for an extra $300K, and suddenly WashU or Northwestern are good enough. It's happening right here every day.

Apparently, the same is now true with Case Western and Hackensack. Let's see just how long people continue to be willing to pay a six figure premium for Harvard and UCSF when they realize they really be plastic surgeons without doing so.

 

[nimbus]

Hopefully med schools will not start colluding with each other on aid packages. I do applaud NYU for setting the new bar.

16 Ivy League and elite universities sued for alleged financial aid conspiracy

A class action suit accuses Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Georgetown, Penn, Rice, Yale and others of inflating their prices for financial aid recipients.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[KnightDoc]

Hopefully med schools will not start colluding with each other on aid packages. I do applaud NYU for setting the new bar.

16 Ivy League and elite universities sued for alleged financial aid conspiracy

A class action suit accuses Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Georgetown, Penn, Rice, Yale and others of inflating their prices for financial aid recipients.

www.nbcnews.com

View attachment 353968

Isn't this why the MAR no longer exists? How can the schools collude if they cannot see where else you have acceptances? They only find out when WE tell them as part of our attempts to get them to match!

In any event, the suit has nothing at all to do with med school admissions. Med schools have never advertised need-blind admissions because, unlike UG, we all have access to federal loans for the full COA everywhere (other than CNU!).

 

[Dogruffle01]

The only way to get people to go to rural areas in the current economic climate is to make them sign binding primary care contracts. Otherwise, no one is going to go here unless primary care payouts become obscene. A 500k salary is not the same to a 250k salary as a 100k salary to a 50k salary

Or, one theory I've been thinking about is allowing internists in rural areas to also serve in other specialties like dermatology. That can give them some opportunity for private clinical work in a specialty that they wouldn't have otherwise had the opportunity to practice in, if they had stayed in the city

I'm trying to figure out how this works. Physicians are licensed to practice medicine and surgery. They are usually limited by malpractice insurance to limit their scope of practice to their area of expertise as evidenced by residency /fellowship training, board certification, and continuing education. A family medicine doc is trained to provide first line diagnosis and therapy for some derm problems such as acne, warts, and other common conditions but not board certified in derm. Someone with a derm problem sees the primary care doc in town and gets treatment or gets referred to the big city where there are board certified dermatologists available for something that does not respond to first line therapy.

How would having a derm practice on the side be different than what is happening now where a primary care doc, who may be in a private group practice or a private solo practice (depending on the size of the population, etc) is caring for everyone from pre-natal through adolescents, adulthood and old age, including end of life care.

Alternative: Nowheresville can offer me a Derm residency spot with a mandatory commitment period and I would work no questions asked.

Little do they know I planned to work there anyways hehe 😎😎

 

[efle]

just how many people are actually paying full price today at the top schools

A lot of people! I would guess the median student in my class was told EFC = COA. These are mostly people coming from multimillion networth families, and usually paid tens of thousands extra per year for private schooling since highschool (or earlier). And recruitment/merit scholarships, even for places famous for it like Penn and WashU, is a small part of the class. That's why those scholarships exist and why NYU really went tuition free - because there's a good chance peer schools are asking Mom and Dad for $300k+ sticker price.

Agree on your prognosis for NYU, I think Stanford and Mayo are both other examples of med schools that became better and better regarded over a decade or two. NYU's undergrad too, that was like a safety school for t20 hopefuls back in my day and now a decade later it has a 12% admit rate and 98-99th percentile entrance exam scores. They know how to play the game

 

[aldol16]

I would say my personal top 10 would be:

Harvard, UCSF, Stanford, Hopkins, Mayo, Columbia, Penn, Duke, UWashington, Cleveland Clinic Lerner.

 

[nimbus]

I would say my personal top 10 would be:

Harvard, UCSF, Stanford, Hopkins, Mayo, Columbia, Penn, Duke, UWashington, Cleveland Clinic Lerner.

But that’s only 10. Usually there are 15-20 top 10 schools

 

[NegativeMargin]

Yale's PD ranking was 23 last year and is 26 this year, while their USNWR ranking has remained around 10 for the last ~20 years. The same difference can be seen for Mt. Sinai as well being 11th in research but 37th for the PD rankings.. I feel like someone more knowledgeable than me might be able to infer something beyond the standard "different metrics equate to different rankings" as we all know that, but at a certain point, differences that great are telling a much more interesting story.

Perhaps this is more evidence for the users are pointing out a shift away from primary care, as USNWR has Yale 68th for primary care but in the top 10 for multiple competitive specialties. Could discrepancies this large point to malignancies for certain residency programs?

Historic USNWR Medical School Rankings

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Yale’s hospital really doesn’t stack up to it’s peers. PD’s might be biased against Yale because of this.

Also i feel like the response rate is too low to draw many conclusions. How are schools like Beaumont, Hofstra, UCF ranked below DO schools when these schools have a match list that is better than even the best DO schools

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Yale's PD ranking was 23 last year and is 26 this year, while their USNWR ranking has remained around 10 for the last ~20 years. The same difference can be seen for Mt. Sinai as well being 11th in research but 37th for the PD rankings.. I feel like someone more knowledgeable than me might be able to infer something beyond the standard "different metrics equate to different rankings" as we all know that, but at a certain point, differences that great are telling a much more interesting story.

Perhaps this is more evidence for the users are pointing out a shift away from primary care, as USNWR has Yale 68th for primary care but in the top 10 for multiple competitive specialties. Could discrepancies this large point to malignancies for certain residency programs?

Yale probably gets a lot of money for its PhD’s on the faculty roster. Their clinical training is really subpar given the whole Yale-New Haven system is made of mostly community hospitals such as Greenwich Hospital and suburban outpatient clinics… my personal experience with the system basically told me it is not nearly on the same level as Harvard or Columbia. Most physicians just want to have a comfortable life away from the hassles of big cities. The catchment area of the system is basically Fairfield county which is considered NYC suburb. Everyone living in the county opts to be seen in the city should they have some serious medical problems.

 

[LizzyM]

Yale probably gets a lot of money for its PhD’s on the faculty roster. Their clinical training is really subpar given the whole Yale-New Haven system is made of mostly community hospitals such as Greenwich Hospital and suburban outpatient clinics… my personal experience with the system basically told me it is not nearly on the same level as Harvard or Columbia. Most physicians just want to have a comfortable life away from the hassles of big cities. The catchment area of the system is basically Fairfield county which is considered NYC suburb. Everyone living in the county opts to be seen in the city should they have some serious medical problems.

You are daft! Yale-New Haven Hospital itself is in New Haven County as is the affiliated children's hospital, psychiatric hospital and cancer center. The community hospitals within its system stretch east to New London and southern Rhode Island as well as as far west as Greenwich (NY State border). Its catchment area is far more than Fairfield County!

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

You are daft! Yale-New Haven Hospital itself is in New Haven County as is the affiliated children's hospital, psychiatric hospital and cancer center. The community hospitals within its system stretch east to New London and southern Rhode Island as well as as far west as Greenwich (NY State border). Its catchment area is far more than Fairfield County!

I am aware that YNH is in New Haven County. Most people in CT live in Fairfield. Eastern CT is mostly rural and is dominated by UConn. So I am DEFT LOL. I know what I am talking about and I interviewed in person and got accepted there as well. I said "the catchment area is BASICALLY Fairfield." And that accounts for the population. How many people live in Madison? How many people live in Bridgeport??

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I think that Yale also has some institutions in western MA (ie Austen Riggs Center). Maybe it’s not McLean but I’m pretty sure it’s still a solid psych hospital. Not sure if they have other inpatient/outpatient in MA

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I think that Yale also has some institutions in western MA (ie Austen Riggs Center). Maybe it’s not McLean but I’m pretty sure it’s still a solid psych hospital. Not sure if they have other inpatient/outpatient in MA

Its psych residency program is consistently ranked highly.

 

[LizzyM]

I am aware that YNH is in New Haven County. Most people in CT live in Fairfield. Eastern CT is mostly rural and is dominated by UConn. So I am not daft, lol. I know what I am talking about and I interviewed there as well. I said "the catchment area is BASICALLY Fairfield." And that accounts for the population. How many people live in Madison? How many people live in Bridgeport??

I don't know what your definition of "most" is but there are ~944K people in Fairfield County while the entire State has a population of more than 3.5 million (is 27% "most"?). New Haven County's population is not far behind ~855K. New London County is less densely populated (~250K) but served by a local hospital in the Yale network and about the same distance by car to UConn's medical center in Farmington. I hardly think that UCONN dominates the eastern shoreline.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I don't know what your definition of "most" is but there are ~944K people in Fairfield County while the entire State has a population of more than 3.5 million (is 27% "most"?). New Haven County's population is not far behind ~855K. New London County is less densely populated (~250K) but served by a local hospital in the Yale network and about the same distance by car to UConn's medical center in Farmington. I hardly think that UCONN dominates the eastern shoreline.

fine. clearly you work for the YNH system.

 

[LizzyM]

fine. clearly you work for the YNH system.

Haven't been on the Yale payroll in >30 years but I know the area like the back of my hand and I am not called the evil queen of numbers for nothing.