what are top d.o. schools?

[Kuba]

rank them based on graduating scores... let see how the USMLE/COMLEX score comparison... not that 99% of people pass but "what's the score?"

i think that would be a better gauge of TOP school. Umdnj does offer DO/Phd degree but from I know, there is only one faculty receiving a NIH grant.

All this top school is non-sense because everyone has their own opinions. good mcats? good clinicals? good research? To me it comes down to USMLE and COmplex scores...

personally, I would stick with schools that have been established for half a century or so... that said i wanna go to TCOM

UMDNJ has been the top DO school in terms of receiving NIH grants for a few years...

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[Doctor Bagel]

UMDNJ has been the top DO school in terms of receiving NIH grants for a few years...

True, but it's possible that amount was solely for one researcher. I hate to say it, but every DO school gets an amazingly small amount of NIH funding. UMDNJ might be the best, but we're talking about maybe $3 million. I doubt that research experience for students is any more amble at UMDNJ than it is at most other osteopathic schools.

 

[Lamont]

agreed about OSU (its a fantastic school)...also...who really cares? The best school is the one that you WANT to go to. I imagine that DMU is great, but i'd rather go to TCOM or OSU than it because they are in the part of the country that I eventually want to end up (either the south or the southwest). DCOM is the same way, its just a more attractive package when I consider other factors. DMU is a fantastic school, dont get me wrong, but not my cup of tea. Years 1&2 are going to be somewhat similar at most places and a lot of it comes down to what you do as a student, not what they do as faculty in most instances. Years 3 & 4 matter and years 5-8 to 12 REALLY matter. focus on that, see how people do on boards (COMLEX and USMLE, if applicable because both matter) and see where they match. Matching in the "top 3" isnt as important as "100% matched" or where they matched.

My 2 cents

 

[Doctor Bagel]

agreed about OSU (its a fantastic school)...also...who really cares? The best school is the one that you WANT to go to. I imagine that DMU is great, but i'd rather go to TCOM or OSU than it because they are in the part of the country that I eventually want to end up (either the south or the southwest). DCOM is the same way, its just a more attractive package when I consider other factors. DMU is a fantastic school, dont get me wrong, but not my cup of tea. Years 1&2 are going to be somewhat similar at most places and a lot of it comes down to what you do as a student, not what they do as faculty in most instances. Years 3 & 4 matter and years 5-8 to 12 REALLY matter. focus on that, see how people do on boards (COMLEX and USMLE, if applicable because both matter) and see where they match. Matching in the "top 3" isnt as important as "100% matched" or where they matched.

My 2 cents

I agree. If there were a noted difference between how high a school ranked with NIH funding and on the scale given above, you should pay attention to that stuff. However, we have no clue that there is. Look at how students do on their boards and where they match. That's the stuff that matters.

I've got to admit I sort of disagree with you on the DCOM thing, though, just because you can't look at how students have done in the past. Personally, that's make me uncomfortable just because I couldn't get the data to assure me that the school would get me where I want to be. I'd go to DMU over DCOM in a heartbeat. I've got to admit I loved DMU for making it so easy to figure how how their students did on boards and where they matched.

 

[Kuba]

True, but it's possible that amount was solely for one researcher. I hate to say it, but every DO school gets an amazingly small amount of NIH funding. UMDNJ might be the best, but we're talking about maybe $3 million. I doubt that research experience for students is any more amble at UMDNJ than it is at most other osteopathic schools.

you're right about hte low funding. But Nova reports 49million in NIH funding according to their recrtuiting pamphlet... so if they are not the top then I would assume UMDNJ has more.. but who knows. I know that UNECOM has 1 researcher with NIH funding and I think its a whopping 150,000 or something.

Some of the clinical trials at UMDNJ-SOM - http://som.umdnj.edu/research/clinical_trials/research_clintrialupdates.html?id=2

I think they get quite a bit of funding.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

you're right about hte low funding. But Nova reports 49million in NIH funding according to their recrtuiting pamphlet... so if they are not the top then I would assume UMDNJ has more.. but who knows. I know that UNECOM has 1 researcher with NIH funding and I think its a whopping 150,000 or something.

Some of the clinical trials at UMDNJ-SOM - http://som.umdnj.edu/research/clinical_trials/research_clintrialupdates.html?id=2

I think they get quite a bit of funding.

Nova's being deceptive, then, because that money is not for their medical school. According to usnews, their medical school got $1.7 million in NIH funding. I guess that other money must be going into other schools at NSU -- whether or not that's of any benefit to you, I don't know.

UMDNJ-SOM got $4.6 million.

In the end, if NIH funding's important to you, you have to go allopathic. For example, my school is not known as a research school at all, but we got $37 million in NIH funding.

 

[Lamont]

I've got to admit I sort of disagree with you on the DCOM thing, though, just because you can't look at how students have done in the past. Personally, that's make me uncomfortable just because I couldn't get the data to assure me that the school would get me where I want to be. .

thats a good point, I still think that in the end what truly matters for residency is test scores (up to the student), audition rotation performance (up to the student), interviews (student), and what they bring to the table (student). I think you can go most anywhere for school, and if you kick butt in everything you do (esp. tests which are "equalizers") then you will be fine in getting a choice residency. All that said...DMU probably does give you a leg up compared to DCOM as far as residency goes simply because its established and has some good connections. It won't be fun explaining to every program director what DCOM is when I rotate there, especially if its an away rotation.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Just a reminder, the OP asked about rankings based on specializing, not NIH funding.

Bottom line - NIH funding does not effect the greatness of the education you will receive. Why? Because any physician involved in research will gladly take on a med student interested in their research, where EVER you go to school! If you seek out a research opportunity, you're not likely to be turned away. Why? You'll be helping their research along for free, that's why. So WHY would you care about the amount of NIH funding the school is getting? Especially when there are just so many, many other things that will have a much greater impact on your education than that?

Ultimately I think Doctor Bagel is right - if someone is THAT interested in NIH funding, allo is the way to go.

 

[txkiteboarder]

also regarding UMDNJ-Som.

Since it is associated to allopathic schools under the same name, you can request to do summer research at other campuses. I know number of students who will be doing that PLUS UMDNJ will PAY for your research funding...

my roommate is first year and decided to go to ecuador for summer (1month).

 

[Kuba]

Just a reminder, the OP asked about rankings based on specializing, not NIH funding.

Bottom line - NIH funding does not effect the greatness of the education you will receive. Why? Because any physician involved in research will gladly take on a med student interested in their research, where EVER you go to school! If you seek out a research opportunity, you're not likely to be turned away. Why? You'll be helping their research along for free, that's why. So WHY would you care about the amount of NIH funding the school is getting? Especially when there are just so many, many other things that will have a much greater impact on your education than that?

Ultimately I think Doctor Bagel is right - if someone is THAT interested in NIH funding, allo is the way to go.

im not even the one that brought up NIH funding this time . But I do have to politely disagree.

 

[Orthodoc40]

im not even the one that brought up NIH funding this time . But I do have to politely disagree.

Wow. You actually believe that the amount of NIH funding a school gets will have a significant impact on your education?! Okay. We will have to disagree.

But this is the whole thing. For you, research $$$ & MCAT averages are a priority. For me, clinical training years and opportunity to specialize are a priority. So, the top school for you is probably different than the top school for me. We won't be able to agree.

 

[MacGyverWVSOM]

will add this to the FAQ

It's actually WVSOM, not WVCOM... West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine.

And as for the ranking, please visit here on their site:
http://www.wvsom.edu/toprural.cfm

It explains the results of a study done by the University of Nebraska:
"WVSOM has just been recognized as the top medical school in the world according to the percentage of its graduates practicing medicine in rural areas. A study from the University of Nebraska shows that 42% of all WVSOM graduates practice medicine in rural areas. The data was collected from all domestic and foreign medical schools, including allopathic (M.D.) and osteopathic (D.O.) programs, for the period 1987-2000."

"WVSOM ranks #1 in the study because a very high percentage of its graduates – nearly half of them – practice in rural areas. The gap between the #1 ranked school (WVSOM) and the #2 ranked school (The University of South Dakota) is a full ten percentage point spread (42.1% vs. 32.2%)."


My focus on going to WVSOM was to practice in rural medicine, and I have been very satisfied with this choice. I was selected at two allopathic schools (one research based, the other an ivy-league), and two osteopathic schools (one urban, and one rural), and I picked WVSOM.

~"The Don"

 

[Nickelpennykid]

Just a reminder, the OP asked about rankings based on specializing, not NIH funding.

If that was what he asked then it has to be PCOM. US NEWS has them at the lowest % of graduates entering primary care.

 

[Kuba]

Wow. You actually believe that the amount of NIH funding a school gets will have a significant impact on your education?! Okay. We will have to disagree.

But this is the whole thing. For you, research $$$ & MCAT averages are a priority. For me, clinical training years and opportunity to specialize are a priority. So, the top school for you is probably different than the top school for me. We won't be able to agree.

you're right. we won't agree, but I do find it ironic that you say if someone's priority is NIH funding to go allo... I would give the same advice to someone who is dead set on specializing..


on a side note, speaking of specializing, one of the ED attendings I work with told me I have "the look" to go into orthopedics... maybe I will specialize after all, lol.

 

[Orthodoc40]

you're right. we won't agree, but I do find it ironic that you say if someone's priority is NIH funding to go allo... I would give the same advice to someone who is dead set on specializing..

I completely agree with that. I think if someone is dead set on specializing in a competitive field, they should try to go allo. Trying and doing are 2 different things, as we all know!

on a side note, speaking of specializing, one of the ED attendings I work with told me I have "the look" to go into orthopedics... maybe I will specialize after all, lol.

No offense but I think that means he (or she) was calling you a dumb jock! LOL! (Totally kidding around, Kuba! )

 

[Kuba]

No offense but I think that means he was calling you a dumb jock! LOL! (Totally kidding around, Kuba! )

it was a she, LOL

 

[k2mishboy]

I'm a little bias because I'll be attending AZCOM in the fall, but i chose AZCOM partially because I was told they had the highest pass rate for the COMPLEX I exams among all DO schools. I think that says alot..

 

[Krazykritter]

AZCOM doesn't have any competition for COMPLEX pass rate b/c the rest of us take;

THE FREAKING COMLEX!!!! FFS.

 

[Kuba]

AZCOM doesn't have any competition for COMPLEX pass rate b/c the rest of us take;

THE FREAKING COMLEX!!!! FFS.

anyway, doesnt OSU boast 100% pass rate in recent years? Can't top that.

 

[k2mishboy]

Just curious, where are you going krazykritter? Just wondering if you ended up in one of the schools back east that boast an average MCAT score of 21 and GPA of 3.3. Or are you still pre-med?

 

[Packamylase]

anyway, doesnt OSU boast 100% pass rate in recent years? Can't top that.

The KCUMB Class of 2011 will have a 110% pass rate because that's how much EFFORT we're going to put into the board exams!!!

 

[spicedmanna]

The KCUMB Class of 2011 will have a 110% pass rate because that's how much EFFORT we're going to put into the board exams!!!

Game on!

We are so gonna rock and roll the boards.

 

[Orthodoc40]

KrazyKritter is a 2nd year at DMU. That's in Des Moines. IOWA. East enough for ya?

 

[MJB]

Just wondering if you ended up in one of the schools back east that boast an average MCAT score of 21 and GPA of 3.3.

And, which school would that be?

 

[Krazykritter]

Just curious, where are you going krazykritter? Just wondering if you ended up in one of the schools back east that boast an average MCAT score of 21 and GPA of 3.3. Or are you still pre-med?

Thanks for the chuckle Yeah, M2 @ DMU which happens to be the second oldest & a very well respected school.

I don't hold grudges so I will let you borrow my shovel so you can keep digging that hole that you started w/ your pre-med hate on the new 'schools back east w/ 21 MCAT averages.' Grow up. MCAT score has absolutely no reflection on the quality of physician you will be.

 

[Dr JPH]

The board pass rate of the schools are all competitive.

At small schools a few people not passing hurts the pass rate.
At large schools you have a larger number of idiots in the class which hurts the pass rate.

Chosing a school based on the board pass rate is like saying "ok...Im not so bright...teach me so I can pass the test."

Anyone who has taken COMLEX (and those of us who have taken COMLEX 1, COMLEX 2 PE, COMLEX 2 CE and USMLE 1) can tell you that what you learn in class is meaningless when it comes to boards.

Afterall, why do you think board prep courses, online question banks and review books are so popular? If the school covered everything you wouldnt need that other junk.

Dont choose your school based on the board pass rate.

Choose the school you like, study hard and prepare for boards however you feel most comfortable.

 

[jbone]

Just curious, where are you going krazykritter? Just wondering if you ended up in one of the schools back east that boast an average MCAT score of 21 and GPA of 3.3. Or are you still pre-med?

tool alert.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

anyway, doesnt OSU boast 100% pass rate in recent years? Can't top that.

I think so. At my interview last year, they said that a coupled of years ago, they had this random bad year where maybe 4 or so students failed, mainly because of other life stuff (one had a baby, etc.). Also, supposedly all their students who take the USMLE pass.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Just curious, where are you going krazykritter? Just wondering if you ended up in one of the schools back east that boast an average MCAT score of 21 and GPA of 3.3. Or are you still pre-med?

I would expect this out of a pre-med student who was going the allo route. What happened? Why AZCOM and not MD ...?

Were you the one who scored a 20 MCAT and a GPA just over the legal blood alcohol level for the state of Nevada?

 

[Lamborghini1315]

thats a good point, I still think that in the end what truly matters for residency is test scores (up to the student), audition rotation performance (up to the student), interviews (student), and what they bring to the table (student). I think you can go most anywhere for school, and if you kick butt in everything you do (esp. tests which are "equalizers") then you will be fine in getting a choice residency. All that said...DMU probably does give you a leg up compared to DCOM as far as residency goes simply because its established and has some good connections. It won't be fun explaining to every program director what DCOM is when I rotate there, especially if its an away rotation.

huh medical school is not just connections, it's you!!! If you dont work your ass off to do well on the boards, say what you want...you are fighting the wave! Rotations are good for experience, ultimately residency will establish your career. No hospital will reject you if you have decent board scores and grades (doesnt matter what school you went to). So everyone relax, focus on boards...

 

[Dr.Inviz]

huh medical school is not just connections, it's you!!! If you dont work your ass off to do well on the boards, say what you want...you are fighting the wave! Rotations are good for experience, ultimately residency will establish your career. No hospital will reject you if you have decent board scores and grades (doesnt matter what school you went to). So everyone relax, focus on boards...

Well spoken. You can make connections on your own without the school helping you. That's what being a professional is all about. Those connections will help if you have the qualifications ...

 

[CommanderRiker]

I think so. At my interview last year, they said that a coupled of years ago, they had this random bad year where maybe 4 or so students failed, mainly because of other life stuff (one had a baby, etc.). Also, supposedly all their students who take the USMLE pass.

Passing only indicates proficiency to a degree. It'd be better to know how many score above, say, 215?

 

[Hernandez]

Passing only indicates proficiency to a degree. It'd be better to know how many score above, say, 215?

quite a few. in the class of 2006 & 2007 I know there were at least 4 99%ers, and I believe there were upwards of 7, and most of the people from '07 that I know were in the 230 range on USMLE. But this is kinda a moot point since grading an Osteopathic school by those who take USMLE is introducing selection bias into the mix since it seems to be more of the upper portion of the class who takes it. But OSU does very well on COMLEX scores as well. Exact numbers are hard to come by since the school does not officially release them, we only get word of mouth from the admins.

 

[CommanderRiker]

quite a few. in the class of 2006 & 2007 I know there were at least 4 99%ers, and I believe there were upwards of 7, and most of the people from '07 that I know were in the 230 range on USMLE. But this is kinda a moot point since grading an Osteopathic school by those who take USMLE is introducing selection bias into the mix since it seems to be more of the upper portion of the class who takes it. But OSU does very well on COMLEX scores as well. Exact numbers are hard to come by since the school does not officially release them, we only get word of mouth from the admins.

Awesome, thanks for the info.

 

[Orthodoc40]

what you learn in class is meaningless when it comes to boards.

Dont choose your school based on the board pass rate.

Choose the school you like, study hard and prepare for boards however you feel most comfortable.

So JP, is what you're saying that the school or curriculum can't really be better or worse at preparing students?

Passing only indicates proficiency to a degree. It'd be better to know how many score above, say, 215?

Yah, it's too bad we can't find that stuff out. Can we?

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

Average % 2002-2004 graduates entering primary care residencies (as defined by USNews)

...

A sample of MD schools and their %

...

Harvard - 41.0%

Source: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_med_primarycare_brief.php

I'm always surprised that Harvard puts anybody in primary care at all. If you consider that most people who get into Harvard are gunners, and most gunners shoot for specialties, I would think that Harvard would have the least of any school in the nation.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

So JP, is what you're saying that the school or curriculum can't really be better or worse at preparing students?

Well, since probably over half of my class quit going to classes that weren't required by the second half of 1st year, I would say the curriculum is pretty worthless.

Most of us came to the realization that we could learn the same material much more efficiently on our own (and sleep in later, as well).

Everyone uses the same textbooks, basically. Does it matter if you cover Robbins from front to back or from back to front? The same material is there. You just need to find your way of learning it.

 

[Kuba]

I'm always surprised that Harvard puts anybody in primary care at all. If you consider that most people who get into Harvard are gunners, and most gunners shoot for specialties, I would think that Harvard would have the least of any school in the nation.

they all go into IM subspecialties prolly..

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Well, since probably over half of my class quit going to classes that weren't required by the second half of 1st year, I would say the curriculum is pretty worthless.

Most of us came to the realization that we could learn the same material much more efficiently on our own (and sleep in later, as well).

Everyone uses the same textbooks, basically. Does it matter if you cover Robbins from front to back or from back to front? The same material is there. You just need to find your way of learning it.

Yeah, I'd argue that the ideal curriculum is the one that leaves you alone the most. The fewer required courses and basic busywork, the better. I'm admittedly whining, but I'm irritated that I have to go to school 3 times this week for lame, pointless, waste of time bs. I'd shoot myself if I had to go to a school with mandatory attendance.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I'm always surprised that Harvard puts anybody in primary care at all. If you consider that most people who get into Harvard are gunners, and most gunners shoot for specialties, I would think that Harvard would have the least of any school in the nation.

As Kuba pointed out, that 41% includes people who are planning on IM subspecialties. I bet they also have people who want to go into pediatric subspecialties. It'd be more interesting to see the percentage of people who go into FM.

 

[group_theory]

As Kuba pointed out, that 41% includes people who are planning on IM subspecialties. I bet they also have people who want to go into pediatric subspecialties. It'd be more interesting to see the percentage of people who go into FM.

From second-hand sources (ie SDN posts), HMS this year have 3 people going into FM, 55 into Internal Medicine, 14 into pediatrics, 1 into Med-Peds, and 5 into OB/GYN (too lazy to find out class size)