What are your thoughts on cheating on an exam?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Status
Not open for further replies.
i'm going to bring back this comment that I posted in your other thread:

alright, so once again, you already had an opinion before you made the thread, you asked the question anyway, people gave their opinions, you said they're wrong and ignored it. Why ask?
Was just curious to see how others felt on this topic. Given how cutthroat competitive the medical school admissions process is, I never expected such an overwhelmingly lopsided reaction to my question. It puzzles me that so many of you kids take such pride in being rigidly honorable paragons of integrity when the reality is that this game is far too competitive and has far too many players for anyone to really care how you've done what you've done.

3.9 will always beat out a 3.6. A's are always better than B's. I didn't make up these rules - the medical schools did.
 
And so what if I have to do an SMP or grade replacement if my GPA didn't happen to cut it? The extra hard work will prepare me for medical school. Grow some humility OP.
Yeah, like I said, nothing wrong with it. But if it's not necessary, there's no point in doing it. I would rather ace undergrad and have an adequate GPA the first time around than have to go back and do it all over again. Second way is longer and harder.
 
I won't be surprised if someone who attends OP's school (and specifically his pchem class) is lurking this thread right now...
Let them lurk all they want... I don't really care. It's done with.
 
OP you know an awful lot about medical admissions. Where are you acceptance letters??? Listen, you cannot "fake" your way into medical school. Only pre-meds that haven't applied talk that nonsense. You cannot fake 5 excellent LORs, a 5/5 committee letter ranking, multiple publications, 3.7+ GPA, above average MCAT, years of community service, years of clinical experience. The list goes on. There is no way in hell you can "fake" your way into medical school. You have to have the numbers and experiences to get in.

That being said, you can cheat you way in like the OP said but the risks are so high that its not worth it. Medical school doesn't explicitly screen for cheaters etc. but the process makes it more difficult for these people to make it through.

As I said in my earlier post, there is a difference between playing the game (sucking up at office hours, looking at old exams in office hours or friends, getting a student solutions manual etc.) versus blatant academic dishonesty.

Finally, physics is a great prereq. @listener23, man you ain't been through the process what do you know about it? You'll be surprised how relevant it is to medicine. I have been shadowing cardiologists and doing research and the most important skills I have used are physics (simple fluid dynamics) and sound. Bro, I sit and listen to medical students get pimped on their rotations on the damn Bernoulli equations, V1A1=V2A2 (the principle that when the area the the fluid flows in gets smaller it has to speed up), doppler effect etc. You don't have to be Einstein but you need to understand these principles. When I was younger, I didn't think physics was relevant but it is.
Yes, all that is correct about GPA, MCAT, letters, volunteering hours, etc. But the most important of those is probably your GPA. The MCAT would be neck-and-neck with GPA in terms of importance as well. The others are important but nowhere near to the extent that GPA and MCAT are.

You can get in with a mediocre letter and mediocre ECs if you have the numbers. Nobody is taking some scrub with a 3.2/23.

I normally don't encourage cheating because the consequences can be irreversible and would likely shatter your chances of an acceptance IF you were caught... but sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. If you need the grade, you gotta do what you gotta do.
 
So I created a situation like this - with a lot of opportunity to cheat - with the intention of catching cheated. I had 80% failure rate this year. I set up a hidden camera in a tissue box. I scanned the scantrons day one and let them finish on day two. I saw who went back and changed answers. I let them peer grade their test, expect I already graded them ahead of time. You should've been in my class :3 would've been fun!
Part of the game is knowing your enemies. I know professors exactly like you, with paranoia and vigilance beyond comprehension. Some of them also set up pinhole cameras throughout the room to catch cheaters. Thing is, this professor was nothing like that, hence the reason it ever crossed my mind to do what I did. He and the TA simply were not the type.

Also, 80% cheating/fail rate? Far too improbable to be true. Nice story though. No way 80% of any class ever attempts to cheat.
 
Yes, all that is correct about GPA, MCAT, letters, volunteering hours, etc. But the most important of those is probably your GPA. The MCAT would be neck-and-neck with GPA in terms of importance as well. The others are important but nowhere near to the extent that GPA and MCAT are.

You can get in with a mediocre letter and mediocre ECs if you have the numbers. Nobody is taking some scrub with a 3.2/23.

I normally don't encourage cheating because the consequences can be irreversible and would likely shatter your chances of an acceptance IF you were caught... but sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. If you need the grade, you gotta do what you gotta do.
starting today. Every lunch break.
You were warned.
Consequences are irreversible, you said it yourself.
 
Yes, all that is correct about GPA, MCAT, letters, volunteering hours, etc. But the most important of those is probably your GPA. The MCAT would be neck-and-neck with GPA in terms of importance as well. The others are important but nowhere near to the extent that GPA and MCAT are.

You can get in with a mediocre letter and mediocre ECs if you have the numbers. Nobody is taking some scrub with a 3.2/23.

I normally don't encourage cheating because the consequences can be irreversible and would likely shatter your chances of an acceptance IF you were caught... but sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. If you need the grade, you gotta do what you gotta do.

Just let us know how your cycles go.
 
If I were you, I'd find better things to do with my life...
that hour of lunch break where I'm stuck at work with nothing else to do except eat and play with my cell phone is enough to get maybe 10 or 20 calls in
 
Was just curious to see how others felt on this topic. Given how cutthroat competitive the medical school admissions process is, I never expected such an overwhelmingly lopsided reaction to my question. It puzzles me that so many of you kids take such pride in being rigidly honorable paragons of integrity when the reality is that this game is far too competitive and has far too many players for anyone to really care how you've done what you've done.

3.9 will always beat out a 3.6. A's are always better than B's. I didn't make up these rules - the medical schools did.
I normally don't encourage cheating because the consequences can be irreversible and would likely shatter your chances of an acceptance IF you were caught... but sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. If you need the grade, you gotta do what you gotta do.

there's nothing wrong with people taking pride in feeling they have made their accomplishments on their own merits and without using questionable morals
there is something wrong if you only discourage cheating because of the consequences though..

plus, I can now take pride in being a rigidly honorable paragon of integrity since my GPA was still higher than that without cheating :shrug:
sorry not sorry for this #humblebrag @Agent B


but if you think one exam was going to drop you from a 3.92 to a 3.6, you need to check your math.
 
Yeah, go ahead and see if I care. What's done is done and my grade is set in stone. Like I said, the way you guys react to something as trivial as cheating on one test is comical. I don't know what world you live in if you think this stuff doesn't go on all the time at any level - high school, college, and yes... even medical school.
You're either bluffing, or you're a *****. Because nothing is set in stone. If you get caught for cheating, all that stuff you considered "set in stone" will be smashed with a jackhammer.
 
You're either bluffing, or you're a *****. Because nothing is set in stone. If you get caught for cheating, all that stuff you considered "set in stone" will be smashed with a jackhammer.
I don't know how many times I need to repeat this, but the whole point of doing what I did was to get the grade I needed without getting caught. Yes, obviously if I got caught I would probably be kicked out of the class, this would be a permanent strike on my academic record, and I'd have a 0% chance of getting into medical school.

But I did not get caught. The grades are already in and I got a 99% and will likely finish with an A for the class. Why so peeved anyway? You sound like someone with a pedestrian GPA who didn't take advantage of every opportunity available to maximize her chances of getting into medical school. It's not my fault if you let your scruples prevent you from making the right decisions. This stuff goes on in the professional world too. Finance, law, medicine - it's everywhere. Gonna have to accept reality sooner or later.
 
I don't know how many times I need to repeat this, but the whole point of doing what I did was to get the grade I needed without getting caught. Yes, obviously if I got caught I would probably be kicked out of the class, this would be a permanent strike on my academic record, and I'd have a 0% chance of getting into medical school.

But I did not get caught. The grades are already in and I got a 99% and will likely finish with an A for the class. Why so peeved anyway? You sound like someone with a pedestrian GPA who didn't take advantage of every opportunity available to maximize her chances of getting into medical school. It's not my fault if you let your scruples prevent you from making the right decisions. This stuff goes on in the professional world too. Finance, law, medicine - it's everywhere. Gonna have to accept reality sooner or later.
I actually have a 3.87 GPA, *****. I take advantage of every opportunity. But I'm not a ***** like you, because I've never cheated, and if I did, I would never be so foolish to write about it on an internet forum. (Yes, that's right, I earned my grade fairly, I didn't have to cheat.)

... you haven't gotten caught yet.
 
I don't know how many times I need to repeat this, but the whole point of doing what I did was to get the grade I needed without getting caught. Yes, obviously if I got caught I would probably be kicked out of the class, this would be a permanent strike on my academic record, and I'd have a 0% chance of getting into medical school.

But I did not get caught. The grades are already in and I got a 99% and will likely finish with an A for the class. Why so peeved anyway? You sound like someone with a pedestrian GPA who didn't take advantage of every opportunity available to maximize her chances of getting into medical school. It's not my fault if you let your scruples prevent you from making the right decisions. This stuff goes on in the professional world too. Finance, law, medicine - it's everywhere. Gonna have to accept reality sooner or later.

She's right, you are being a *****. You can be caught for cheating even years after you've graduated much less a day or so after you've gotten your grade back.
 
there's nothing wrong with people taking pride in feeling they have made their accomplishments on their own merits and without using questionable morals
there is something wrong if you only discourage cheating because of the consequences though..

plus, I can now take pride in being a rigidly honorable paragon of integrity since my GPA was still higher than that without cheating :shrug:
sorry not sorry for this #humblebrag @Agent B


but if you think one exam was going to drop you from a 3.92 to a 3.6, you need to check your math.
No, there's nothing wrong with it. I just find it odd that so many of you take such a firm stance on this. Everyone wants to get As, but most students don't get them. If the only way you could get into medical school was through some act of guile/duplicity, most of you here would be singing a different tune.

And I never said I'd drop to a 3.6. But I don't know of anybody on the border of an A/B who would be satisfied with a B when he's literally a few tenths of a point away from an A.
 
He might not have gotten you or me, but people are responding. He's a good troll.

No, they just didn't heed the warnings and posts from myself and others about OP being a terrible troll. Personally, I do enjoy a good troll. I'll even take a half-assed one that starts a HUGE and entertaining flame war, so long as its not the same old thing everytime, but OP just does the same old thing everytime. It was kind of entertaining the first time, but since then every thread OP has started has been the exact same type of trolling and now its getting really half-assed and old.
 
Last edited:
tCp90.gif
 
Rofl at all the people that are letting this guy get to them SO much that they start calling him names!!!
@WhippleWhileWeWork @Mel Belle
I can just see you guys sitting bolt upright in your chairs, sweating, veins popping out of your neck, angry eyebrows, relentlessly squeezing your stress ball.

You are the people that make reading this stuff so entertaining. Go have a beer.

This is how I picture you guys responding on your iPhone SDN app while mumbling "That ***** cheater!!!!!!":
erevdk.gif
 
I actually have a 3.87 GPA, *****. I take advantage of every opportunity. But I'm not a ***** like you, because I've never cheated, and if I did, I would never be so foolish to write about it on an internet forum. (Yes, that's right, I earned my grade fairly, I didn't have to cheat.)

... you haven't gotten caught yet.

Good for you. I deeply envy you and your fairly earned 3.87 (not). The truth is that not a single adcom member is going to care that you "earned" your grades. The number is what matters. With tens of thousands of applications to read, you won't stand out as a special little snowflake because you let your moral compass get in the way of common sense.
 
Against all odds


rifle has done it again. Somedays you disappoint me SDN 🙁
 
Rofl at all the people that are letting this guy get to them SO much that they start calling him names!!!
@WhippleWhileWeWork @Mel Belle
I can just see you guys sitting bolt upright in your chairs, sweating, veins popping out of your neck, angry eyebrows, relentlessly squeezing your stress ball.

You are the people that make reading this stuff so entertaining. Go have a beer.

This is how I picture you guys responding on your iPhone SDN app while mumbling "That ***** cheater!!!!!!":
erevdk.gif
Ha not quite, I said he's being a ***** because he's saying/acting like if someone doesn't get caught by the time they got their grade back then they can't get caught. Which is clearly not true.
As far as his actual cheating, I have invested exactly 0 ****s there.
 
Well, if you did cheat. eh. ok. It's your life and your morals rifle? I couldn't do that because society has successfully given me tthe gift of guilt. One day, the lack of a moral compass will get you in trouble. On the bright side for you, today is not that day. Carry on.
 
Well, if you did cheat. eh. ok. It's your life and your morals rifle? I couldn't do that because society has successfully given me tthe gift of guilt. One day, the lack of a moral compass will get you in trouble. On the bright side for you, today is not that day. Carry on.
+1000000000000000000000000000000

life is beyond the acceptance of any grad school
your character and values will lead you through every decision in life and if it has a rocky foundation
I see lawsuits, expulsion, revoking of licenses in your future if you even make it that far.
 
I wonder if I should create a second account purely to troll SDN.
 
He might not have gotten you or me, but people are responding. He's a good troll.
Against all odds


rifle has done it again. Somedays you disappoint me SDN 🙁
Sorry we're not as smart as you. Maybe someday we'll learn to scoff at people who respond to interesting discussions (even if purposely inflammatory or fake) for their stupidity instead of participating, because it's SO much better.

Down with troll-hunting.
 
It would be real interesting if a premed in OP class saw this most. Considering he is the only one who scored 99%, it would not be hard to narrow him down, should he actually be telling the truth.
 
I think much of SDN needs to go explore 4chan. Trolling is a beautiful, beautiful art that deserves respect. If you're going to do it do it right.
 
It would be real interesting if a premed in OP class saw this most. Considering he is the only one who scored 99%, it would not be hard to narrow him down, should he actually be telling the truth.
Yeah, except nobody in my class knows I scored a 99% (I told the few kids who asked that I got a 90%). The TA and professor are the only ones who have a clue, and it's very likely they've forgotten by now.

Let me guess... what if my professor or TA reads SDN, right? LOL, the odds of winning a Powerball jackpot would be higher than that.
 
Finally, physics is a great prereq. @listener23, man you ain't been through the process what do you know about it? You'll be surprised how relevant it is to medicine. I have been shadowing cardiologists and doing research and the most important skills I have used are physics (simple fluid dynamics) and sound. Bro, I sit and listen to medical students get pimped on their rotations on the damn Bernoulli equations, V1A1=V2A2 (the principle that when the area the the fluid flows in gets smaller it has to speed up), doppler effect etc. You don't have to be Einstein but you need to understand these principles. When I was younger, I didn't think physics was relevant but it is.

Mad respect for you dude :highfive:
 
Yeah, except nobody in my class knows I scored a 99% (I told the few kids who asked that I got a 90%). The TA and professor are the only ones who have a clue, and it's very likely they've forgotten by now.

Let me guess... what if my professor or TA reads SDN, right? LOL, the odds of winning a Powerball jackpot would be higher than that.

Yeah I feel you dude. Not sure why people are basically pounding you with the great book of moral philosophy. Sigh... it's like saying SDN (aka The Premeds) has always been ethical. Of course 🙄
 
Yeah, except nobody in my class knows I scored a 99% (I told the few kids who asked that I got a 90%). The TA and professor are the only ones who have a clue, and it's very likely they've forgotten by now.

Let me guess... what if my professor or TA reads SDN, right? LOL, the odds of winning a Powerball jackpot would be higher than that.
Professors don't readily forget about strong students. They'll likely remember who does well in their class, but since you're full of sheit, this doesn't matter.
 
Professors don't readily forget about strong students. They'll likely remember who does well in their class, but since you're full of sheit, this doesn't matter.
Not in a class with hundreds of students, no attendance taken, etc. Professor probably can't name 5 kids in the class.
 
Pretty hilarious watching some of you nerds get so riled up.

I can dig it OP. What are your thoughts on lying about/fabricating ECs? It seems like there's just too many applicants and not enough resources or manpower to verify many of these activities, so it seems like an opportunistic (albeit unethical) way to enhance your application.
 
I actually have a 3.87 GPA, *****. I take advantage of every opportunity. But I'm not a ***** like you, because I've never cheated, and if I did, I would never be so foolish to write about it on an internet forum. (Yes, that's right, I earned my grade fairly, I didn't have to cheat.)

... you haven't gotten caught yet.

I'm curious. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? Or did someone you loved and cared about horribly pranked you yesterday? Or did OP and you have a "personal relationship" that turned out horribly? In these 6 pages, you sound in a state of bloodthirsty vengeance against the poor OP. Calm down and if you're so worked up, stop posting here.

Or as our friendly mod @Ismet warned countlessly: please use the ignore list. Or report the thread. But engaging in personal attacks against other members or posting inflammatory posts isn't tolerated.
 
I heard about a student who dropped out of college, stated that he did indeed graduate with some engineering degree. He made up everything (GPA, stating he had a diploma from a different school, etc). Got the job... But was later caught, fire, and at least fined. Pretty amusing
 
tumblr_mvv3zwnazX1r96x1xo1_400.png


friendly reminder to my SDN brothers and sisters

I'm surprised OP had incited some really irritable premeds and mercenaries to hunt him down! 😱

starting today. Every lunch break.
You were warned.
Consequences are irreversible, you said it yourself.
that hour of lunch break where I'm stuck at work with nothing else to do except eat and play with my cell phone is enough to get maybe 10 or 20 calls in

Watch out OP! 😱
 
Pretty hilarious watching some of you nerds get so riled up.

I can dig it OP. What are your thoughts on lying about/fabricating ECs? It seems like there's just too many applicants and not enough resources or manpower to verify many of these activities, so it seems like an opportunistic (albeit unethical) way to enhance your application.
Interesting... never really gave it much thought to be honest. From what I've seen/heard, contact info is required for all activities, but you may be right about the too many applicants/not enough manpower to verify thing. Who knows, I guess.

Some of these dudes I know have logged 1000+ hours of volunteering/clinical work and I honestly wonder how the hell they do it. I'd seriously rather watch paint dry than log more than a hundred hours of volunteering. One of the most useless requirements of this whole process imo.
 
Not in a class with hundreds of students, no attendance taken, etc. Professor probably can't name 5 kids in the class.
But if asked to identify the one student who scored a 99% on an exam where the average was 44%, they will be able to identify that student in a millisecond. And if asked to recall if that student needed a new copy of his exam, that may jog their memories as well. Add in your original post and they are going to feel that they were played for fools. Good luck with the student misconduct committee. And if you think that nothing can be changed after a grade is submitted, you may be very wrong. It only takes one instance of academic dishonesty to derail a pre-med and no school will want to admit a cheater.
 
But if asked to identify the one student who scored a 99% on an exam where the average was 44%, they will be able to identify that student in a millisecond. And if asked to recall if that student needed a new copy of his exam, that may jog their memories as well. Add in your original post and they are going to feel that they were played for fools. Good luck with the student misconduct committee. And if you think that nothing can be changed after a grade is submitted, you may be very wrong. It only takes one instance of academic dishonesty to derail a pre-med and no school will want to admit a cheater.
They'd be relying on very dubious evidence then. Let's take this step by step so I understand your thought process here.

Gunner SDN-browsing pre-med kid from my class brings this post to the attention of my professor --> professor uses some random post made on an internet forum as proof that I cheated --> professor rescinds my A, I get booted from the class, and it goes on my academic record --> I can't get into medical school now.

Except on the off chance that any of this happened, I'd lawyer up and threaten to sue the pants off the school. Knowing that he's fighting a losing battle, the professor just gives up and we agree to sweep this little misunderstanding under the rug forever.

And it will never get to that point anyway because the professor won't find out. Sorry lady, but this stuff happens every day in high school, college, medical school/law school/engineering school, etc. What I did is not unheard of at all. Heck, I even know a guy who in medical school was busted for cheating on an exam. After a brief apology to the higher-ups and a promise that this would never happen again, he was back in class the very next day. He's now completing his 2nd year in a gastroenterology fellowship and should be raking in 350K+ soon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top