What do I need to know about coronavirus?

[Apollyon]

I respect the act of defying unjust laws.

I don't think mask mandates rise to this level. Can you please explain why you do?

Yeah. I guess it sounds, to me, like just being oppositional, for it's own sake.

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[Rekt]

I wish I could be as woke as some of you SJWs in this thread. I can walk around feeling so good about myself.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Just a sampling from the first few pages of this thread. I am ignoring the closed mask thread where GV bragged about not wearing a mask and being willing to go to jail rather than protect others in his community...

By the way we are actually neck in neck with Italy when it comes to deaths per capita, which seems like a fair way to compare countries.

That chart is weirdly specific in the countries it shows (or doesn't). I prefer this one: Coronavirus Update (Live): 21,815,754 Cases and 772,666 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Not sure what's going on in Belgium...

 

[chocomorsel]

OK, if that's not how you meant it I certainly won't argue. But it is worth pointing out that if multiple people misinterpret your meaning then maybe what you wrote wasn't phrased as well as it could have been.

The multiple people misinterpreting it have their own agendas and are looking to prove I said something I didn’t.

If I was talking about him I would have explicitly said “you are endangering people’s lives”.

But I didn’t now did I?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The multiple people misinterpreting it have their own agendas and are looking to prove I said something I didn’t.

If I was talking about him I would have explicitly said “you are endangering people’s lives”.

But I didn’t now did I?

I have an agenda?

I've been pretty critical of the man since day 1 of this thing, and while you and I have disagreed in the past I have no personal animosity towards you. So what exactly is my agenda here?

 

[chocomorsel]

You appear to have viewed a click-bait media article through a specific political lens and misapplied your political feelings onto a topic regarding socioeconomic class. Whatever stance Democrats and Republicans have on 'lock downs' is not pertinent to that particular non-scientific article which you frequently criticize others for posting. The article did not make a political inference. You did. You posted the article and your political interpretation. No one is living their life completely normally currently. Some just aren't suffering nearly as much as others, which is based primarily on socioeconomic status and not on one's political views. This isn't a political issue and posts like yours try to make it more of one. If you don't want it to become political, then don't help contribute by posting inherently non-political posts with the addition of politically inflammatory commentary. Your posts clearly seemed political judging by all of the political discussion they generated.

This thread should be about SARS-CoV-2 and not politics or 'lock downs.' There is a whole other thread related to 'lock downs' where you can continue to discuss if you'd like. I personally think the arguments for and against 'lock downs' have been beaten to death. I have my own views too, but at this point the overall societal response to SARS-CoV-2 has gained enough momentum and isn't turning back regardless of what you or anyone else posts on an anonymous online forum. Let's try to keep the discussion on this thread related to learning about SARS-CoV-2 so that those of us treating it can try to do a better job. It's the best thing we as physicians can try to do to help people make it through this pandemic as unscathed as possible.

Exaclty.
And your first paragraph is exactly what I meant about riding Republican coattails and spreading it (all the bias and politicization of it) which was promptly misinterpreted by a couple of people. But yeah, He isn't politicizing a thing here. Just pointing it out to us. OK.

 

[chocomorsel]

I have an agenda?

I've been pretty critical of the man since day 1 of this thing, and while you and I have disagreed in the past I have no personal animosity towards you. So what exactly is my agenda here?

To defend your buddy and make me look like I am anti Republican and anti opening the economy.
To be clear, I am anti Republicans who believe that we should all reopen the economy but don't believe in masks. The no mask thing comes mostly from the conservative side. I am anti anyone who puts their "liberties" and "freedoms" above anyone's else's right to stay healthy.

I don't think you have animosity towards me, but based on many previous exchanges and disagreements in the past, I know where you lean and why you likely accused me of something I didn't say. You ought to know by now that I am a very direct person.

 

[chocomorsel]

@Renaissance Man Thanks for the summary. I didn't go back to the first few pages. I only read through the past few posts/pages.

The quote for 1% death rates brings up an interesting point... It seems when you count all thrombotic events (strokes, PE's) and other things, the death rate is closer to 3.5% if memory serves me correctly. Also, as I mentioned earlier, there may be a push to not place COVID as cause of death on death certificates.

Why is that? Just a quick summary please. Because I have heard the opposite from people who think placing Covid on a death Certificate gets the hospitals the free government cheese it's been busy printing lately.

 

[Renaissance Man]

I wish I could be as woke as some of you SJWs in this thread. I can walk around feeling so good about myself.

I also wish you were woke...or at least not triggered like a snowflake by facts.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

To defend your buddy and make me look like I am anti Republican and anti opening the economy.
To be clear, I am anti Republicans who believe that we should all reopen the economy but don't believe in masks. The no mask thing comes mostly from the conservative side. I am anti anyone who puts their "liberties" and "freedoms" above anyone's else's right to stay healthy.

I don't think you have animosity towards me, but based on many previous exchanges and disagreements in the past, I know where you lean and why you likely accused me of something I didn't say. You ought to know by now that I am a very direct person.

Yeah, not my agenda at all. Hence why I included that I have been pretty critical of @Birdstrike since at least April. That's not to say I dislike the man. I can count on one hand the number of people on SDN that I actually dislike despite at one time or another in the past 15 years disagreeing with many people here.

And your political views have no bearing on my responses in this thread, while we disagree on many points my default is to assume politics don't come into play on COVID until someone proves otherwise and nothing you've said on the subject leads me to think you fall into the category.

It honestly was me thinking you were accusing Bird of something. That was literally it.

 

[Apollyon]

The mod did ask to keep this on the 'rona. Let's not get this thread locked.

 

[chocomorsel]

Yeah, not my agenda at all. Hence why I included that I have been pretty critical of @Birdstrike since at least April. That's not to say I dislike the man. I can count on one hand the number of people on SDN that I actually dislike despite at one time or another in the past 15 years disagreeing with many people here.

And your political views have no bearing on my responses in this thread, while we disagree on many points my default is to assume politics don't come into play on COVID until someone proves otherwise and nothing you've said on the subject leads me to think you fall into the category.

It honestly was me thinking you were accusing Bird of something. That was literally it.

Oh ok. Well thank you for explaining it. No harm. I am trying to stay as neutral on this one and hence I keep saying I don't know the right answers but I can see why the left wants the economy shut down but unsure how long that's gonna last.

It's a sad situation all around really and it really sucks that it's politicized so much. I met a nurse who really believes that if the Democrats win the election come November, they will all be about reopening the economy no matter what the numbers show. I honestly can't fathom that at all and really hope she is wrong. She believes that the numbers are inaccurate in that people who die from other illness, but have Covid, automatically get classified as a Covid death. Clearly she's never taken care of a Covid patient or read on how this disease affects every damn system. Anyway , just blew my mind.

And then she thought that I was going to automatically say that the protesters were not part of the problem with spreading Covid simply because I lean left. She was still totally pissed at me. Whatever.

But we are cool. You've always been respectful unlike some people who resort to calling names and attacking when they disagree and I always try to be respectful back.

 

[Rekt]

I also wish you were woke...or at least not triggered like a snowflake by facts.

Damn man. You are so cool. Wow. You're really incredible. Super impressive.

 

[gutonc]

The fact that a relatively straightforward public health disaster has become politicized in the first place is a big part of why we're all so f***ed right now.

It would be really nice if, as physicians, we could all leave that part out of the discussion.

 

[Siggy]

The fact that a relatively straightforward public health disaster has become politicized in the first place is a big part of why we're all so f***ed right now.

It would be really nice if, as physicians, we could all leave that part out of the discussion.

I mean, you try to and mention how we should do things like contact tracing, mass testing, and masks, and then one side specificially politicizes it because their man said to try injecting disinfectants and bringing the light inside the body, so it triggers them when we mention things that might actually save lives. Let's not even touch the hydroxychloroquine discussion where only one side is denying science because... election.

 

[gutonc]

I mean, you try to and mention how we should do things like contact tracing, mass testing, and masks, and then one side specificially politicizes it because their man said to try injecting disinfectants and bringing the light inside the body, so it triggers them when we mention things that might actually save lives. Let's not even touch the hydroxychloroquine discussion where only one side is denying science because... election.

 

[Birdstrike]

From a paper just accepted to Cell on T-cell immunity...

"We detected cross-reactive T cell responses against spike or membrane in 28% of the unexposed healthy blood donors, consistent with a high degree of preexisting immune responses potentially induced by other coronaviruses"


The study also found...

"robust memory T cell responses months after infection, even in the absence of detectable circulating antibodies specific for SARS-CoV-2, indicating a previously unanticipated degree of population-level immunity against COVID-19."

 

[Birdstrike]

“New Zealand pursuing total elimination strategy. Has recorded 30 #COVID19 cases since Tues, when it broke its 102-day streak of 0 local infections. It's extended lockdown for 12 more days. In Auckland, can only go out for essential trips.” -CNN

 

[TwoHighways]

Oh, how I’ve missed the poop slinging that goes on here. Almost as good as the roast me reddit.

 

[Siggy]

View attachment 316134

No I get the point... I tried that a number of pages ago and since the other side gets to put on their sham of politicizing it while claiming not to, I make no contention on calling them out for politicizing it. Further more, when the snowflakes melt, I'll gladly point it out.

 

[Birdstrike]

Requiring you to wear a mask while home alone on Zoom. Coming soon to a town near you?

“Wisconsin state agency requires employees to wear masks while teleconferencing“

#Science #SlowTheSpread

 

[Birdstrike]

As of today:

2,922,724 Americans (94%) have recovered from COVID-19.

How come we never hear that statistic?

 

[thegenius]

Oh, how I’ve missed the poop slinging that goes on here. Almost as good as the roast me reddit.

Seriously it’s terrible here again. For about a week say, it was relatively calm. Now feces flinging has come back. It’s like there are a bunch of little kids at the playground yelling and screaming at each other. There are a handful of little kids inciting most of the obnoxious behavior on here.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I respect the act of defying unjust laws.

I don't think mask mandates rise to this level. Can you please explain why you do?

The government can fine you, and/or put you in jail for not wearing a piece of cloth on your face when you step outdoors. That doesn't strike you as overreach? Fortunately most states don't have such a mandate. But the fact that it's seriously considered is astonishing.

To be clear I'm all for businesses requiring people to wear masks on their property if they so choose. That is well within their right to do.

 

[Apollyon]

No I get the point... I tried that a number of pages ago and since the other side gets to put on their sham of politicizing it while claiming not to, I make no contention on calling them out for politicizing it. Further more, when the snowflakes melt, I'll gladly point it out.

No, it really seems that you don't get the point. You contributing to the sham keeps it going. Let other people peter out. I mean, it's the internet, dude!

 

[chocomorsel]

You say the Democrat states have done "a heck of a lot better." Let's take a look at the data after 6 months after everyone taking their turn getting hit by the virus. The top 5 states with the greatest deaths per capita (Deaths/1M pop) are all Democrat states, NJ, NY, Mass, CT, and RI. Those 5 states make up 63,189 of the 172,741 deaths in the United States. That's 5 of 50 states that make up 37% of the deaths deaths in the country. Add in California (11,231 deaths) and it's almost half the deaths in the whole country, from just 6 Democrat states of 50. It seems to me if you look at actual results, the only thing the Democrat states did better was having more of their citizens die, total and per capita.

View attachment 316088

You are ignoring my earlier point that the Democractic states that you mention, all besides California (which got hit in both waves) were part of the first wave. When we were clueless as to what to do. And then drastic measures ensued.
I said they are doing much better currently compared to before due to their stricter measures. Except again California. But you keep twisting things around to fit your agenda. Numbers alone don't mean crap without proper context around the numbers.

And as smart as you think you are, you are also ignoring population density of those Democratic States.

But nah, you aren't politicizing anything at all are you?

 

[Siggy]

And as smart as you think you are, you are also ignoring population density of those Democratic States.

No he's not. It's just inconvenient to use per capita because it doesn't support his politics.

 

[NurWollen]

The government can fine you, and/or put you in jail for not wearing a piece of cloth on your face when you step outdoors. That doesn't strike you as overreach? Fortunately most states don't have such a mandate. But the fact that it's seriously considered is astonishing.

To be clear I'm all for businesses requiring people to wear masks on their property if they so choose. That is well within their right to do.

If that's overreach, then that ship sailed a long time ago. The government forces you to do a lot of things under penalty of fine. like wear pants. Or seatbelts. Or drive on the right hand side of the road. Or register your car.

 

[AMEHigh]

You are ignoring my earlier point that the Democractic states that you mention, all besides California (which got hit in both waves) were part of the first wave. When we were clueless as to what to do. And then drastic measures ensued.
I said they are doing much better currently compared to before due to their stricter measures. Except again California. But you keep twisting things around to fit your agenda. Numbers alone don't mean crap without proper context around the numbers.

And as smart as you think you are, you are also ignoring population density of those Democratic States.

But nah, you aren't politicizing anything at all are you?

Yep exactly.

If you look at this cdc info that has cases and also deaths per capita, which is how we should look at things, you'll get a better picture of things.
I am not trying to make it political, but the highest rates of both seem to be in the south (no I did not go look at every single state and figure out if they have a republican governor because it really shouldn't be political). Even for NY they have a rate outside of NYC for just the rest of the state and the NY state per capita case and death rate are a lot lower.

COVID Data Tracker

CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.

www.cdc.gov

 

[chocomorsel]

No he's not. It's just inconvenient to use per capita because it doesn't support his politics.

But he told us he's not politicizing any of this? Lol

 

[GeneralVeers]

If that's overreach, then that ship sailed a long time ago. The government forces you to do a lot of things under penalty of fine. like wear pants. Or seatbelts. Or drive on the right hand side of the road. Or register your car.

Your are making an excellent case for fascism and removal of any individual rights.

 

[chocomorsel]

Your are making an excellent case for fascism and removal of any individual rights.

Your fight for individual rights are impeding on other's rights to life and the pursuit of happiness. You know, we are all much happier when we are HEALTHY and ALIVE!!!
How can you, a physician even argue against mask wearing when lack of it is directly linked to harming people? This isn't just about Your Rights, and Your liberties. You aren't the only one who lives in this great country. Why do you feel like your rights matter any more than the next person's?

Did we not take an oath to FIRST, DO NO HARM? If you aren't wearing a mask outside of your house, you are violating this oath. And you are being a selfish jerk quite frankly.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Your fight for individual rights are impeding on other's rights to pursuit of happiness. You know, we are all much happier when we are HEALTHY and ALIVE!!!
How can you a physician even argue against mask wearing when lack of it is directly linked to harming people? This isn't just about Your Rights, and Your liberties. You aren't the only one who lives in this great country. Why do you feel like your rights matter any more than the next person's?

Did we not take an oath to FIRST, DO NO HARM? If you aren't wearing a mask outside of your house, you are violating this oath. And you are being a selfish jerk quite frankly.

We live in a country where people are allowed to make choices. Because we have those choices we accept greater risk as a society. Those at risk from COVID should stay home, and not go outside at all. The other 80% of us should be free to make our own choices. Yes I know young people are dying cuz of anecdotes.

I didn't say people SHOULDN'T wear masks if they think that's the right thing to do. I'm saying they shouldn't be compelled under the threat of violence to do so.

 

[Lawpy]

Any luck with ARBs/ACEis?

 

[Siggy]

Your are making an excellent case for fascism and removal of any individual rights.

Welcome to the social contract vs being in a state of nature (e.g. Locke Second Treatise on Government). Part of being in society, in fact part of the entire purpose of society, is to regulate behavior. In the state of nature, if I offend you and enter into a state of war, then you're well within your rights to kill me. Now we recognize that this is stupid and counterproductive (not specifically killing me... but the concept of being in a state of war with your neighbor because he stole an ear of corn... but also, please don't kill me). So we've made a society, which we've entered into voluntarily, so that there's an alternative to a state of war. Being in society, and under a government, comes with benefits and responsibilities. This is the entire, "the freedom to move your fist ends at the tip of my nose" concept. This is why it's illegal to drink and drive. If the only person drinking and driving was going to hurt was yourself, then there shouldn't be a legitimate reason for the government to regulate it.

Now enter SARS-CoV-2. Masks have been shown to decrease spread (https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818). We know that asymptomatic, and especially presymptomatic spread is a problem. So mask mandates makes sense from a public health standpoint and are as legitimate as drunk driving laws because you could be spreading SARS-CoV-2 and not know it... and your right to spread SARS-CoV-2 ends at my nose.

 

[chocomorsel]

We live in a country where people are allowed to make choices. Because we have those choices we accept greater risk as a society. Those at risk from COVID should stay home, and not go outside at all. The other 80% of us should be free to make our own choices. Yes I know young people are dying cuz of anecdotes.

I didn't say people SHOULDN'T wear masks if they think that's the right thing to do. I'm saying they shouldn't be compelled under the threat of violence to do so.

People don't chose where they are born. And there are too many selfish people who think like you and are endangering other's lives who just can't afford to up and move to places like Europe or OZ or NZ and/or leave their families behind. You know, places where the general population care a little bit more about their neighbors and their countrymen as a whole. Too many people here think only about themselves and when given the choice will behave exactly as you describe you want to behave. In that process endangering other people's lives.

And that is where the government rightfully steps in. Because we are not a lawless society and we don't rule and govern ourselves, Show me a country that successfully does that and teach me something new. I like to learn. There is a reason the forefathers wanted the great liberties of this country but ALSO wanted to implement a democratic government. But clearly they seem to have created a selfish monster in the process.

Those at risk from Covid are everyone. Everyone can catch Covid. Some just fair better than others. And who wants to be sick if they don't have to even if it means full recovery? This can lead to extra bills people can't afford and people losing more time away from work if still lucky enough to have a job. Never mind the misery of it all. I mean, is being sick a fun thing or something?

And how do you suppose all people do their grocery shopping or visit their doctors, or go to work, if they can't go outside at all? Again, where do your liberties end and another person's start? Or do you really even care about anyone but yourself?

 

[GeneralVeers]

People don't chose where they are born. And there are too many selfish people who think like you and are endangering other's lives who just can't afford to up and move to places like Europe or OZ or NZ and/or leave their families behind. You know, places where the general population care a little bit more about their neighbors and their countrymen as a whole. Too many people here think only about themselves and when given the choice will behave exactly as you describe you want to behave. In that process endangering other people's lives.

And that is where the government rightfully steps in. Because we are not a lawless society and we don't rule and govern ourselves, Show me a country that successfully does that and teach me something new. I like to learn. There is a reason the forefathers wanted the great liberties of this country but ALSO wanted to implement a democratic government. But clearly they seem to have created a selfish monster in the process.

Those at risk from Covid are everyone. Everyone can catch Covid. Some just fair better than others. And who wants to be sick if they don't have to even if it means full recovery? This can lead to extra bills people can't afford and people losing more time away from work if still lucky enough to have a job. Never mind the misery of it all. I mean, is being sick a fun thing or something?

And how do you suppose all people do their grocery shopping or visit their doctors, or go to work, if they can't go outside at all? Again, where do your liberties end and another person's start? Or do you really even care about anyone but yourself?

Life is full of risk. We shouldn't do any more measures for this virus than we have for respiratory viruses over the last 50 years. This virus just has a better publicist.

 

[chocomorsel]

Life is full of risk. We shouldn't do any more measures for this virus than we have for respiratory viruses over the last 50 years. This virus just has a better publicist.

There is a highly contagious virus that kills about a million people a year each year besides Covid?
You are a doctor who really believes the stuff you type about this?
Seriously? A better publicist?
Have you visited a Covid ICU? Talked to any of your ICU colleagues? Because it looks like you are not believing any thing you read or watch. Ok, that’s fair the media has agendas.

But presumably if you work in a hospital ER you have access to the ICU? Why not take a tour there and talk to the staff? Unless in your state you are seeing very low numbers that is. If so, then lucky you.

Many of the rest of us are experiencing something almost indescribable. And no, we are not making this s hit up. You don’t need the news and propaganda.

There is an ICU forum on here that describes other physicians experiences. Take a peek. If you even care as a physician.

 

[TwoHighways]

The virtue signaling...

 

[GeneralVeers]

There is a highly contagious virus that kills about a million people a year each year besides Covid?

The Flu. 650,000 deaths globally last year. In bad years it kills millions

Tuberculosis. Last year 10 million infections, with 1.5 million deaths.

You are a doctor who really believes the stuff you type about this?
Seriously? A better publicist?
Have you visited a Covid ICU? Talked to any of your ICU colleagues? Because it looks like you are not believing any thing you read or watch. Ok, that’s fair the media has agendas.

I've intubated dozens in the ICU this year....so yes. 3 of our ICU physicians ended up in the ICU and one had bilateraly PEs. I still don't think that justifies forcible seizure of property and suspension of civil liberities.

Many of the rest of us are experiencing something almost indescribable. And no, we are not making this s hit up. You don’t need the news and propaganda.

There is an ICU forum on here that describes other physicians experiences. Take a peek. If you even care as a physician.

You mean the CNN death propaganda that's terrorizing people?

 

[chocomorsel]

The Flu. 650,000 deaths globally last year. In bad years it kills millions

Tuberculosis. Last year 10 million infections, with 1.5 million deaths.



I've intubated dozens in the ICU this year....so yes. 3 of our ICU physicians ended up in the ICU and one had bilateraly PEs. I still don't think that justifies forcible seizure of property and suspension of civil liberities.




You mean the CNN death propaganda that's terrorizing people?

Well, well, well, I stand corrected. I have never seen TB that I recall. But I am from a poor country and therefore affected by TB.

The flu has a range and for some reason the range in numbers are very wide for some reason. Poor reporting? Why are the TB numbers so precise in comparison?

I still believe in mask wearing for sure. Whether or not it impedes on civil liberties it does protect others.

Well well well, I have lived here too long and fallen victim to seeing things in such an egocentric view that I am floored. I try to read the BBC but I have never seen much reporting on TB. That’s also clearly a Western Medium with its own agenda.

Just the more reason to get back to my original plans halted by Covid.

Thank you.

My agenda is to prevent unnecessary deaths as much as possible. Like I said, I understand what the left is doing, but how long it’s sustainable is unknown. I have long been a proponent of everyone being mandated to wear a mask and we go about our business. But not go about a business without attempting to minimize risk mask-less.

Why is TB so ignored and not reported on like this illness?

 

[Renaissance Man]

The virtue signaling...

Yeah, virtue signaling on an anonymous board which has no real world implications is totally something that THE LIBS are up to around here! But very fine people on both sides, am I right?

 

[GeneralVeers]

Yeah, virtue signaling on an anonymous board which has no real world implications is totally something that THE LIBS are up to around here! But very fine people on both sides, am I right?

I actually agree. There are fine people on both sides. In America, to disagree is to be offended by someone else's point of view. (Yes I do know where you got that quote).

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Well, well, well, I stand corrected. I have never seen TB that I recall. But I am from a poor country and therefore affected by TB.

The flu has a range and for some reason the range in numbers are very wide for some reason. Poor reporting? Why are the TB numbers so precise in comparison?

I still believe in mask wearing for sure. Whether or not it impedes on civil liberties it does protect others.

Well well well, I have lived here too long and fallen victim to seeing things in such an egocentric view that I am floored. I try to read the BBC but I have never seen much reporting on TB. That’s also clearly a Western Medium with its own agenda.

Just the more reason to get back to my original plans halted by Covid.

Thank you.

My agenda is to prevent unnecessary deaths as much as possible. Like I said, I understand what the left is doing, but how long it’s sustainable is unknown. I have long been a proponent of everyone being mandated to wear a mask and we go about our business. But not go about a business without attempting to minimize risk mask-less.

Why is TB so ignored and not reported on like this illness?

Because TB is pretty rare in the US. We had less than 9,000 cases last year, and of those 70% were in people not born in the US.

Flu numbers have a wide range because a fair bit is statistical guesswork. The numbers aren't just "people who test positive" since lots of people don't go to the doctor when they get the flu.

 

[chocomorsel]

Because TB is pretty rare in the US. We had less than 9,000 cases last year, and of those 70% were in people not born in the US.

Flu numbers have a wide range because a fair bit is statistical guesswork. The numbers aren't just "people who test positive" since lots of people don't go to the doctor when they get the flu.

I understand that part about TB. Obviously the media is busy reporting on what is affecting the US. However they are also focusing on numbers outside the US as well.

The headlines point out that there are now 50k deaths in India from Covid. Sounds bad but when you put it into context that they have about 350k deaths each year to TB, but yet that makes no news, what does that make me think?

While I am still absolutely for mask wearing, I am beginning to change my mind about other things. The propaganda of it all.

If it doesn’t affect the West, does it make the News? Does it matter less when the disease it’s affecting developing and poor countries? If this illness was killing Africans like it is now killing Americans, would it get the same press? Let’s think about that honestly.

In other international websites, they seem to be still talking about the Corona as well.

Only thing I can say now is that maybe mask wearing will also have an effect on TB numbers this year. I don’t know.

The fact that I am a doctor who’s never known this, maybe been taught this but don’t remember as it certainly wasn’t a huge part of my ID rotation, leaves me a bit ashamed honestly. I know I am not the only one. I knew TB killed, I just didn’t realize the severity of it all.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Because TB is pretty rare in the US. We had less than 9,000 cases last year, and of those 70% were in people not born in the US.

Flu numbers have a wide range because a fair bit is statistical guesswork. The numbers aren't just "people who test positive" since lots of people don't go to the doctor when they get the flu.

I've always been confused about the hysteria over having our annual "TB test" just to work, for a disease with an incredibly low case rate in the United States. Should be for people who've spent a lot of time overseas, or healthcare workers with a known exposure. The cost and time spent tracking this must be enormous.

But back to COVID, when compared with all disease fatality rates, COVID barely registers when compared with heart disease, cancer, and diabetes. Our lifestyle illnesses of obesity vastly overshadow the impact of COVID, yet we do nothing about that except pump out more drugs to "manage the diseases".

As I've stated before, in 2018 more than 2.8 million Americans died of all causes. COVID will probably cause a 7% increase in overall fatalities, and likely a decrease in the next 10 years.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I've always been confused about the hysteria over having our annual "TB test" just to work, for a disease with an incredibly low case rate in the United States. Should be for people who've spent a lot of time overseas, or healthcare workers with a known exposure. The cost and time spent tracking this must be enormous.

But back to COVID, when compared with all disease fatality rates, COVID barely registers when compared with heart disease, cancer, and diabetes. Our lifestyle illnesses of obesity vastly overshadow the impact of COVID, yet we do nothing about that except pump out more drugs to "manage the diseases".

As I've stated before, in 2018 more than 2.8 million Americans died of all causes. COVID will probably cause a 7% increase in overall fatalities, and likely a decrease in the next 10 years.

I was pretty excited that my hospital did away with yearly TB tests this year following the CDC recommendations.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I understand that part about TB. Obviously the media is busy reporting on what is affecting the US. However they are also focusing on numbers outside the US as well.

The headlines point out that there are now 50k deaths in India from Covid. Sounds bad but when you put it into context that they have about 350k deaths each year to TB, but yet that makes no news, what does that make me think?

While I am still absolutely for mask wearing, I am beginning to change my mind about other things. The propaganda of it all.

If it doesn’t affect the West, does it make the News? Does it matter less when the disease it’s affecting developing and poor countries? If this illness was killing Africans like it is now killing Americans, would it get the same press? Let’s think about that honestly.

In other international websites, they seem to be still talking about the Corona as well.

Only thing I can say now is that maybe mask wearing will also have an effect on TB numbers this year. I don’t know.

The fact that I am a doctor who’s never known this, maybe been taught this but don’t remember as it certainly wasn’t a huge part of my ID rotation, leaves me a bit ashamed honestly. I know I am not the only one. I knew TB killed, I just didn’t realize the severity of it all.

Of course it wouldn't be noticed outside of the western world. That's how things have always been, not saying its right but it is what it is. Same reason we only care about Ebola about once every 10 years.

Its not worth being ashamed over, no one can know everything.

 

[Birdstrike]

Remember all the, "We don't know if COVID-19 infection brings immunity" talk?

More evidence of durable immunity after COVID-19, including mild cases:


1) Functional SARS-CoV-2-specific immune memory persists after mild COVID-19

"...mild COVID-19 elicits memory lymphocytes that persist and display functional hallmarks associated with antiviral protective immunity."


2) Dynamics and significance of the antibody response to SARS-CoV-2 infection

"IgG antibodies against RBD lasted longer and persisted through 75 days post-symptoms [last time measured]... IgG antibodies are correlated with neutralizing antibodies and are possibly a correlate of protective immunity."


3) Evidence for sustained mucosal and systemic antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 antigens in COVID-19 patients

"IgG antibodies remained relatively stable up to 115 days [last time measured]..."


4) Detection, prevalence, and duration of humoral responses to SARS-CoV-2 under conditions of limited population exposure.

"...we conclude that immunity is durable..."

 

[WilcoWorld]

I understand that part about TB. Obviously the media is busy reporting on what is affecting the US. However they are also focusing on numbers outside the US as well.

The headlines point out that there are now 50k deaths in India from Covid. Sounds bad but when you put it into context that they have about 350k deaths each year to TB, but yet that makes no news, what does that make me think?

While I am still absolutely for mask wearing, I am beginning to change my mind about other things. The propaganda of it all.

If it doesn’t affect the West, does it make the News? Does it matter less when the disease it’s affecting developing and poor countries? If this illness was killing Africans like it is now killing Americans, would it get the same press? Let’s think about that honestly.

In other international websites, they seem to be still talking about the Corona as well.

Only thing I can say now is that maybe mask wearing will also have an effect on TB numbers this year. I don’t know.

The fact that I am a doctor who’s never known this, maybe been taught this but don’t remember as it certainly wasn’t a huge part of my ID rotation, leaves me a bit ashamed honestly. I know I am not the only one. I knew TB killed, I just didn’t realize the severity of it all.

I agree that it is right and good to point out the proportionality of problems. We could save MANY more lives per dollar by addressing access to clean drinking water and malaria prevention worldwide than we will with remdesivir or HFNC. That is a calculation that should come into play when public health officials are setting budgets or when I'm deciding where to send charitable donations.

However, we need to avoid falling into a rhetorical trap that goes like this; There are OTHER problems out there that are BIGGER. If you care about people you should focus on helping the most people. Because you are not focusing on the biggest problem, you shouldn't bother working on your smaller problem. fin

This argument leads to nihilism. I know that no matter what I do or how hard I work, when I die there will be problems that are yet to be fixed. I don't see that as a reason to try to make the world a better place while I'm alive.

So, yeah - I agree with you and General Veers that year over year worldwide TB and malaria are huge problems. I agree with you that we can and should do a better job of addressing them (especially if we accept Globalist economic policy, but that's a different convo). Furthermore, the fact that the US media and public are so ignorant of these problems is evidence of our self-centeredness, an aspect of our culture that is at the root of many of our problems today. But I disagree with claims that because TB is a bigger killer than covid we should therefore not worry about covid.