What do to do now?

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hameeds2

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All right everyone, I'm looking for VERY honest answers.

So in 2011 I graduated with a bachelors in Economics and had a good GPA 3.5 and was in the honors college at my university.
I work full time in banking and decided to change paths and enrolled in Northwestern University's Post Bacc program while working full time.

BAD DECISION. It is hard to juggle a full time job. I only enrolled in this particular program because they said I could continue working full time as my classes are night time and weekend labs.

So I have A's in my labs for Physics and Chem, i'm 2/3rds done with these classes it's just for lectures I just got a C- for Chem and a C+ for Physics. I'm thinking about dropping out of the program. I'm thinking about going to another school, not working and just getting good grades. I just don't want to waste another year. I spent already $7500 at Northwestern of my own savings. I feel stupid. What would you do? Should I stick out my last quarter, get good grades or is having these grades just insalvagable? I don't want to do a masters program.
 
All right everyone, I'm looking for VERY honest answers.

So in 2011 I graduated with a bachelors in Economics and had a good GPA 3.5 and was in the honors college at my university.
I work full time in banking and decided to change paths and enrolled in Northwestern University's Post Bacc program while working full time.

BAD DECISION. It is hard to juggle a full time job. I only enrolled in this particular program because they said I could continue working full time as my classes are night time and weekend labs....

I think this was the first wrong move. Don't believe the hype. As a general rule, school admins will say anything to get more tuition paying warm bodies in the door.

The material you will have to master to earn a competitive GPA and to do well on the DAT for d school application cannot be taken lightly. In my experience, for example, you can't work 40+ hours a week and expect your brain to be available at the level it needs to be to master Org Chem and get a good grade (maybe at a comm college its possible?). Maybe if you are digging ditches by day or something like that where your brain is entirely shut off...can't imagine in your line of work you've got a halfway unbaked brain by the end of each day...

If you can't withdraw the best thing you can do at this time is do as well as you can as the grades will follow you (AADSAS grading system for d school application requires disclosure of all schools attended as well as doesn't drop any grades for retakes) and if you are going to keep going the material will benefit you in retaking and/or DAT prep and/or additional classes.

You are either all in or you're all out IMO. Like Mr. Miyagi said in Karate Kid, "walk on left side of road safe. walk on right side safe. walk in middle: squish! just like grape." If you are going to head for d school there is no half A $ $ ing the process and effort required. Go big and all the way or go home. You are at a point in the process which requires investing in something which is completely intangible, which for anybody in finance generally speaking is a terrible place to be because everything on the balance sheet says DON'T DO IT.

According to the numbers I have come across ~40% of all applicants get into dental school somewhere. Perhaps if you are unsure of the cost analysis and risk for your time and money (assuming you are going to risk going all in) perhaps do some more research to verify there is adequate likelihood of success being achieved on your part + the luck necessary in the process for a post-bach applying to d school in your situation.

And $7500...pfffft...pocket change in the big picture for what it will take to get into dental school in the long run. There are plenty of applicants who pay that much alone on the application and interview phases.
 
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Thanks for the reply.

I definitely realize now that taking a program that said I could work plus take classes was a mistake and I hate that I did that. I know for the next quarter and year I will not be working full time, will work 10-12 hrs at a dental office as a dental assistant and focus on my grades.

So would you recommend I stay at Northwestern and complete my entire post bacc there? Or would going to another school? Either way I will quit my job and focus on my studies. I just need help and input on deciding whether I stay there or just go elsewhere to show better grades. I only took two quarters of chem and physics and I have one quarter to go, an entire year of orgo and bio along with biochem, anatomy and physiology left.
 
Thanks for the reply.

I definitely realize now that taking a program that said I could work plus take classes was a mistake and I hate that I did that. I know for the next quarter and year I will not be working full time, will work 10-12 hrs at a dental office as a dental assistant and focus on my grades.

So would you recommend I stay at Northwestern and complete my entire post bacc there? Or would going to another school? Either way I will quit my job and focus on my studies. I just need help and input on deciding whether I stay there or just go elsewhere to show better grades. I only took two quarters of chem and physics and I have one quarter to go, an entire year of orgo and bio along with biochem, anatomy and physiology left.

Does your program have a pre-dental advisor or two or three? It sounds like it should. Go in and see what they recommend. Talk to older, more experienced peeps. I know that the pre-dental society advisor at my school has been getting traditionals and post bachs into dental school for 12+ years. No doubt they've seen your situation before. Maybe you already thought of this though...

Community college might be an option but I am not going to get into that quagmire of a debate about equivalency (between comm college credits and University credits). If you switch to comm college at this point common sense informs me that it would look pretty obvious to an admissions committee you made adjustments to accommodate a path of lesser resistance.

If I were in your shoes, what to do about coursework moving forward would depend on what schools I plan on applying to.

That said, in the meantime if I can't drop and get a W (which I don't think is calculated on AADSAS) I would stick it out, get myself hellbent on doing as well as I can by the end of the finish line for the present quarter...and I'd lean towards giving myself a promotion from my present full time job to full-time pre-dent student including retake as necessary* full-time with undivided attention. Seems like an adcom committee would respect this very much if you were able to pull all As and Bs moving forward with full time committment at the same school.

*There has been some good sounding advice, (including anecdotes of peeps who got into dental school who did this), to limit retakes to only coursework which is below a C. With the idea that one may as well focus on moving on and doing well in higher level coursework. Of course, if basic bios and chems are all Cs...well...

my two cents.
 
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Thanks. I do want to do that. I wish I didn't work this year. so bad. I really do want to do well. I am just getting discouraged about my grades. Our advisors are okay. They just keep saying to stay at NU. Our professors really, really, really are bad. I mean the worst. They just don't teach and I learn the material on my own.

I think I will give it my absolute all this next quarter. (And I did give a lot of effort to begin with!) I honestly hope I do very, very well. I just don't want to go into a Dental interview with excuses.
 
Thanks. I do want to do that. I wish I didn't work this year. so bad. I really do want to do well. I am just getting discouraged about my grades. Our advisors are okay. They just keep saying to stay at NU. Our professors really, really, really are bad. I mean the worst. They just don't teach and I learn the material on my own.

...

Rest assured, you are not alone. These days most of us in the public school system including the Universities are paying for the privilege of 'teaching ourselves' and showing up for exams on material that is entirely unused in the everyday and quickly forgotten. I call it Mental Bulimia.

Modern academia is a ruse of the first order. 99% of undergrad curriculum is not involved with imparting meaningful knowledge: rather its main purpose is to instill a fear of non-conformance to implicit social 'facts' (i.e. socialize the newly minted post adolescents student body in whatever flavor of the day currently holds sway with academia and society at large) and performance is really a series of graded exercises spread out over four years in (self taught) time management. At least the hard sciences are a little less arbitrary than the rest of undergraduate curriculum. Though even they seem to be getting sucked deeper and deeper into the cavernous darkness of political correctness as brought on by the relentless tinkering of social 'engineers' (who overpopulate the liberal arts and science curriculums). Their relentless gnawing destroyed the pillars of their own professional communities and now they seek out fresh meat in the hard sciences.

The wise will plan accordingly. I look forward to learning something practical and useful in dental school (finally!) which I can translate into an income with which to feed my family. As opposed to entering the workforce as an unemployable college grad with a degree and no useful knowledge or transferable skills in the real world, as I found out the hard way with an undergrad & masters degree in ______.

I came across this analysis the other day: very interesting and hope inspiring. Tidbits like this keep me pushing/ pulling myself through/ past pre-dent curriculum:

http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2009/09/dental-school-v-law-school.html

The hopeful future of a dental school grad vs. the dismal future for law school grads (or insert whatever degree ____) 5,000 d school grads a year vs 40,000! a year for law school grads! Methinks the same basic analysis applies to essentially most professions these days which is why there are so many applicants to dental school. A degree in _____ (insert pretty much whatever) is a dime a dozen these days: the nasty trick pulled on graduates is that although they are worth a dime in the marketplace if they are lucky, they paid 100,000 each to get the degree. And the schools laugh all the way to the bank esp. the Universities.
 
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Go talk to an adviser at a Dental School if you haven't already. The adviser at the school where I was accepted was fantastic and really helped reassure what I was thinking or bluntly corrected my thinking. Your obviously committed to this, as is apparent by the investment of your savings or you just really hated banking. Get in contact with the adviser at your in state dental school. I know dentistry is very competitive and not everyone has the best chances of getting into their in-state school but in my opinion it should be your first choice and is probably the least competitive of the schools you will apply, as many state schools, if not all, choose to take care of their residents first. However, if your stats aren't strong then that changes everything. The hardest classes for me were the lower level bios and chem's as I hadn't been in school for 9years (I worked in construction, yea, if I could do it you can) but as I progressed things became much easier due to the coursework building on itself, at least for the bio/chem classes, physics..... was what it was.

Don't dropout of the program, finish it and retake the classes, if you can try to get B- or B's so you don't have to retake them. Returning to school is tough and as it's your first time back you were a little rusty but as the adcom can see by your future transcripts you had to make some changes to afford yourself more time to commit to the process. Try not to work if it's possible, you need to commit a great deal of time protecting your gpa. I stopped working all together and focused on keeping my grades high. You can retake those classes and you'll be fine but do everything you can to prevent that from happening, it would suck having to pay for those classes again. One or two less than ideal grades won't kill you, just do really well in that area on the DAT. Orgo II I got a C+, DAT 28, of course Orgo on the DAT is really easy.... and I would think that having got a 28.

I don't know that I would do the community college route but that would be a great question for an adviser at the school you want to attend. Just ask them what makes you most competitive.If you did do the cc route I would keep working at least part-time preferably full time. My experience with cc was that it was far easier. The DAT in a way is a good equalizer, if you go to a community college and score great on the DAT what does it matter where you took your prereqs. There is a great deal of debate about cc vs. Universities and how you would stack up compared to someone who got the same grades as you but in a "harder" program. Just do what you need to do and don't worry comparing yourself to everyone else and by that I mean there are different paths to a great gpa, for some it includes retaking classes and others retaking everything... hopefully not but you know. I would just try to stick it out but if it really sucks as you say it does then find a different program but keeping going.

Again, ask an adviser they'll tell you, better yet find a professor with a great reputation of being a...being very blunt. For example, I met with a professor who had a reputation of telling students interested in medicine that they had better choose a different career path, it wasn't uncommon for this professor to ask people what ever made them think they could do med school with transcripts like theirs. When I met with him he told me not to get anymore W's he said anymore than three and your app goes into the pile closer to the trash. Of course, this isn't true for everyone but then again those people that think they are special are the ones that don't get in. I liked your statement about having no excuses going into the interview but remember this is a process that includes you learning what your limits are and overcoming setbacks to achieve what you want. It's all about how you present it, I got bad grades because my professors were really really bad sounds like an excuse but I got bad grades because, unfortunately, due to work commitments, I was not able to devote the time necessary to complete the courses at a level I know I could have, is yea, still an excuse but it is Life and yes so is having really really bad professors but would you agree that if you had a lot more time you would be doing much better? Just don't make it someone else's fault and I know you aren't, your more or less just crazy frustrated with your situation, been there. keep going and stop working, working is no fun, of course you are broke but whatever, you are preparing for life as a dental student, being broke.
 
Thank you so much. I just thought I could do it all by working full time and taking classes. I got terrible grades Cs in my first two quarters and I am focused on just gettings As this final quarter in Chem and Physics. Then in Orgo and Bio. It's definitely my own fault for taking on too much. Since I can't quit right this second (I didn't take any financial aid and will be paying for this quarter with my own money) but I have already started reading ahead during my spring break and doing everything I can at this moment to be ahead. I have already put in my time to leave my job by this summer and talked to the Chem professor I will be retaking with.

I am trying to work next year 10-13 hrs a week as a Dental Assistant, is that a good idea?

Also, I am shadowing three dentists this summer when I don't have any classes. I know I can explain these grades as a bad decision to take intense classes while working. My professors aren't great, but I could have done great if I didn't work, that I know.

Thanks for all the feedback!
 
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