What do y'all think - Physical therapists should be called Doc too

[core0]

This is degree inflation... most midlevel programs are now calling their programs "doctorates." Pretty soon, we'll have doctors of phyisican assisting

It's partly because people like the OP want to create some more respect for their allied health field, but mostly it's so the schools can shake down their students for even more money.

Nope we're still arguing whether to use a master's as the degree of choice. No real desire for a Doctorate. There is some discussion for a doctorate for a terminal degree for teaching. However we decided that for now the master's is the terminal degree. Some people get a DHsc for teaching. I'm getting my PhD in economics (and my patients will still call me Dave).

David Carpenter, PA-C

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[turkleton]

Nope we're still arguing whether to use a master's as the degree of choice. No real desire for a Doctorate. There is some discussion for a doctorate for a terminal degree for teaching. However we decided that for now the master's is the terminal degree. Some people get a DHsc for teaching. I'm getting my PhD in economics (and my patients will still call me Dave).

David Carpenter, PA-C

Damn... PhD in econ?? Impressive. How did you find the time? I love econ and read what I can but could never imagine going back to school for it.

 

[core0]

Damn... PhD in econ?? Impressive. How did you find the time? I love econ and read what I can but could never imagine going back to school for it.

Actually not bad if you do it part time. 1-2 classes per quarter. Takes about 5-6 years instead or 3 or so. Make some good money doing economic analysis for drug companies if you understand the medicine part.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[BigBucksPTA]

Just a comment about the whole "Is there a doctor on this plane thing"

Apart from physicians specializing in EM, Trauma surg, maybe even IM or FP, do you think the average pathologist or diagnostic radiologist will be even remotely useful when someone's having an MI? Yeah, I can just see the psychiatrist running a code here. "Do I think you're having an MI? No, let me hear what you think. Is there a couch on this plane?!" Heck I'd put my money on a nurse or EMT, who'd probably be exponentially of more use. So using that as a metric to differentiate MDs from non-MDs in order to carry the title "doctor" just does not hold any water.

 

[cfdavid]

For some strange reason everyone wants to be like a physician even when they are not. I have 100 bucks that says if physicians change their title from "doctor" to "biatch", there will be some therapist/nurse/pharmacist screaming "Hey I wanna be a biatch too".

 

[mountainman123]

Just a comment about the whole "Is there a doctor on this plane thing"

Apart from physicians specializing in EM, Trauma surg, maybe even IM or FP, do you think the average pathologist or diagnostic radiologist will be even remotely useful when someone's having an MI? Yeah, I can just see the psychiatrist running a code here. "Do I think you're having an MI? No, let me hear what you think. Is there a couch on this plane?!" Heck I'd put my money on a nurse or EMT, who'd probably be exponentially of more use. So using that as a metric to differentiate MDs from non-MDs in order to carry the title "doctor" just does not hold any water.

Even a psychiatrist has done a rotation in internal medicine, FP, etc.. and I would bet that even those 8-? weeks of training is more than a PT will see in their whole life. I was using those as examples of what the general public sees a Dr. to be and the differences in using the term that you so much desire to be equally called.

 

[core0]

I'll just make a general comment. I think that the whole Doctor thing is confusing for the patient. There is only one captain of the ship and unless you are going to run medical care then don't try to pretend. It is appropriate to use Dr. In the appropriate setting. If you have a PhD in nursing then when you are teaching nursing students it is appropriate to be referred as Dr. We referred to our pharmacy instructor who was a PharmD as Dr. In a medical setting such as a hospital it confuses the situation and is inappropriate. The bottom line is that this is a medical system and the only Dr. there is the physician. If this was a PT system then they would be the top dog. And yes this includes the former CEO of the hospital I worked at. He had a PhD in healthcare administration and insisted on being paged overhead as Dr. The staff spent a year laughing at him until he was advised to find another job (try to make money instead of lose it).

Just my piece.
David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[mountainman123]

I'll just make a general comment. I think that the whole Doctor thing is confusing for the patient. There is only one captain of the ship and unless you are going to run medical care then don't try to pretend. It is appropriate to use Dr. In the appropriate setting. If you have a PhD in nursing then when you are teaching nursing students it is appropriate to be referred as Dr. We referred to our pharmacy instructor who was a PharmD as Dr. In a medical setting such as a hospital it confuses the situation and is inappropriate. The bottom line is that this is a medical system and the only Dr. there is the physician. If this was a PT system then they would be the top dog. And yes this includes the former CEO of the hospital I worked at. He had a PhD in healthcare administration and insisted on being paged overhead as Dr. The staff spent a year laughing at him until he was advised to find another job (try to make money instead of lose it).

Just my piece.
David Carpenter, PA-C

Well said...

 

[NonTradMed]

Just a comment about the whole "Is there a doctor on this plane thing"

Apart from physicians specializing in EM, Trauma surg, maybe even IM or FP, do you think the average pathologist or diagnostic radiologist will be even remotely useful when someone's having an MI? Yeah, I can just see the psychiatrist running a code here. "Do I think you're having an MI? No, let me hear what you think. Is there a couch on this plane?!" Heck I'd put my money on a nurse or EMT, who'd probably be exponentially of more use. So using that as a metric to differentiate MDs from non-MDs in order to carry the title "doctor" just does not hold any water.

Good point. You're right that the common misconception that any doctor will suffice in an emergency, especially when there are EMTs and nurses that may be just as good (or better, as the case may be for EMTs) to handle emergency than many types of doctors.

But again, the doctor issue in the hospital setting is where I am concerned about. I don't mind calling someone a doctor if they have the degree but when everyone is called a doctor in the hospital, I think that tends to confuse patients.

 

[mountainman123]

All of you are misssing the point of the doctor on a plane example. I am aware that EMT's are awesome at their job- I was an EMT-Intermediate before med school. I was simply saying that the general public sees this form of a Dr. as what you are desiring to be called. It is confusing for the patient to meet seventeen Dr.'s, when they have only one physician in charge of their care, and a pharmacist, PT, NP, optometrist, chiropractor, physiologist, economist, etc... all calling themselves Dr.s to the patients.

 

[Critical Mass]

I'll just make a general comment. I think that the whole Doctor thing is confusing for the patient.

 

[psipsina]

Doing procedures on the dead or models is different than doing them on the living. There are 4th years at your school and every school who if told to put a chest tube in a patient would say, "HELP!!!" These would be the students who are not going into surgery or the surgical subspecialties. Actually, when I was in Houston doing my surgery rotation, some of the interns even had trouble placing them.

We actually get some real patient procedure practice via our ER in addition to practicing on fresh cadavers in our first year. I'm not saying we'd all be great at it but at least we'd have a vague idea where to cut so not to cause nerve/vessel damage, how to insert the tube, how far back to push it . . . even having done it once on a fresh cadaver and having extensive knowledge of the anatomy gives you a knowledge base to work from.

 

[densmore22]

I have a friend who's a 4th year Pharmacy student who was on a plane to the Phillipines last summer and a lady went into an acute hypertensive crisis, they asked if anyone was a physician and no one stood up, after like 5 minutes, he volunteered, he didn't want too, but he felt sort of obligated I guess. He took her pressure, told the crew to tell someone on the ground what was going on, not much you can do in the air even if you are an MD/DO, but he got a free plane ride to the Phillipines, $1800.

Ok, so I'm not trying to convince ANYONE on here ( and I'm not trying to justify my education, I'm just trying to elaborate), I had a story and I couldn't resist posting, but I'm a 1st year podiatry student. We all (in my class) call ourselves medical students, the U.S. governement technically recognizes us as "medical students" and we do so just because we get tired of explaining to people what the difference is, we just say (when asked what we're interested in) that we're going into podiatry. I'll just say this, my school (and not all schools are like this only 2/8 are) is fully integrated w/ the Osteopathic students at my school. 1st year we take ALL the same basic sciences, Anatomy, biochem, histo, embryo, physio, micro/immuno, etc, etc. It's in our 2nd year, 2nd semester where we branch off, but we still take Pharm w/ the Osteopaths, we also do full systems, but we don't spend the entire year on them like the Osteo's do.

Anyways, I fully expect to be addressed as a podiatrist and I'm ok w/ that, we acheive a Doctoral medical degree, but I just think it adds to confusion, I think in certain settings it's ok for us to address ourselves as Dr. to a pt., I don't think this adds to confusion. I don't think Dentists, Pharmacists, Physical therapists should be referred to this way just because people know them as Pharmacists, Dentists, PT's, etc just as the lay person knows what a podiatrist is, but not a DPM, anyways, sorry to be so wordy. Just my $.02. Flame away, I suppose.

By the way: "Psst, Janitor." "Yes Scientist." Great movie.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

All of you are misssing the point of the doctor on a plane example. I am aware that EMT's are awesome at their job- I was an EMT-Intermediate before med school. I was simply saying that the general public sees this form of a Dr. as what you are desiring to be called. It is confusing for the patient to meet seventeen Dr.'s, when they have only one physician in charge of their care, and a pharmacist, PT, NP, DO, optometrist, chiropractor, physiologist, economist, etc... all calling themselves Dr.s to the patients.

1. Whats wrong with a DO calling himself a Dr. to his patient?
2. If a patient has to see all these people he's probably gonna die...so it doesnt matter.
3. Who the F*** cares.

 

[mountainman123]

Sorry, DO was an accident, got carried away. I erased it.

 

[turkleton]

I'll just make a general comment. I think that the whole Doctor thing is confusing for the patient. There is only one captain of the ship and unless you are going to run medical care then don't try to pretend. It is appropriate to use Dr. In the appropriate setting. If you have a PhD in nursing then when you are teaching nursing students it is appropriate to be referred as Dr. We referred to our pharmacy instructor who was a PharmD as Dr. In a medical setting such as a hospital it confuses the situation and is inappropriate. The bottom line is that this is a medical system and the only Dr. there is the physician. If this was a PT system then they would be the top dog. And yes this includes the former CEO of the hospital I worked at. He had a PhD in healthcare administration and insisted on being paged overhead as Dr. The staff spent a year laughing at him until he was advised to find another job (try to make money instead of lose it).

Just my piece.
David Carpenter, PA-C

Best post yet. Should be the automatic answer for all future debates.

To get back to the OP's main point though... physicians don't garner respect just because of the MD. Although this is a title obsessed field, it is not the end all be all. Everyone knows doctors they abhor, nurses they respect, and priests who are more important than anyone in the room at the end of a code. So I'll say it again. Respect is earned not demanded, and certainly not embroidered into letters after your name.

 

[core0]

Just a comment about the whole "Is there a doctor on this plane thing"

Apart from physicians specializing in EM, Trauma surg, maybe even IM or FP, do you think the average pathologist or diagnostic radiologist will be even remotely useful when someone's having an MI? Yeah, I can just see the psychiatrist running a code here. "Do I think you're having an MI? No, let me hear what you think. Is there a couch on this plane?!" Heck I'd put my money on a nurse or EMT, who'd probably be exponentially of more use. So using that as a metric to differentiate MDs from non-MDs in order to carry the title "doctor" just does not hold any water.

Actually they really have it down to a science. They have a pretty nice kit and they put you in radio contact with an ER physician. So if you can follow directions and remember basic medicine you will do OK. Reminds me of when I was a Paramedic. If there was a core someone would come running across the parking lot screaming I'm a doctor and dump my Sparks kit (does that really date me) all over the pavement. It was invariably a dentist or a podiatrist.

They only give you a limited amount of meds. The one time that I had to use it, I gave the guy asprin, said encouraging things and waited for the plane to land ASAP. Could see the ST elevation on the monitor. I was offered a free ticket (declined it, someone told me you lose liability protection if you accept compensation - not sure if this is true).

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[Critical Mass]

They only give you a limited amount of meds. The one time that I had to use it, I gave the guy asprin, said encouraging things and waited for the plane to land ASAP. Could see the ST elevation on the monitor.

Encouraging words: "Okay there little blood clot, please stop blocking that coronary. Have some aspirin. Platelets, no need for stickiness today. There, that's better."

j/k.

 

[cfdavid]

I have a friend who's a 4th year Pharmacy student who was on a plane to the Phillipines last summer and a lady went into an acute hypertensive crisis, they asked if anyone was a physician and no one stood up, after like 5 minutes, he volunteered, he didn't want too, but he felt sort of obligated I guess. He took her pressure, told the crew to tell someone on the ground what was going on, not much you can do in the air even if you are an MD/DO, but he got a free plane ride to the Phillipines, $1800.

Ok, so I'm not trying to convince ANYONE on here ( and I'm not trying to justify my education, I'm just trying to elaborate), I had a story and I couldn't resist posting, but I'm a 1st year podiatry student. We all (in my class) call ourselves medical students, the U.S. governement technically recognizes us as "medical students" and we do so just because we get tired of explaining to people what the difference is, we just say (when asked what we're interested in) that we're going into podiatry. I'll just say this, my school (and not all schools are like this only 2/8 are) is fully integrated w/ the Osteopathic students at my school. 1st year we take ALL the same basic sciences, Anatomy, biochem, histo, embryo, physio, micro/immuno, etc, etc. It's in our 2nd year, 2nd semester where we branch off, but we still take Pharm w/ the Osteopaths, we also do full systems, but we don't spend the entire year on them like the Osteo's do.

Anyways, I fully expect to be addressed as a podiatrist and I'm ok w/ that, we acheive a Doctoral medical degree, but I just think it adds to confusion, I think in certain settings it's ok for us to address ourselves as Dr. to a pt., I don't think this adds to confusion. I don't think Dentists, Pharmacists, Physical therapists should be referred to this way just because people know them as Pharmacists, Dentists, PT's, etc just as the lay person knows what a podiatrist is, but not a DPM, anyways, sorry to be so wordy. Just my $.02. Flame away, I suppose.

By the way: "Psst, Janitor." "Yes Scientist." Great movie.

Sure, you're a doctor of podiatric medicine. You have a doctorate level degree that has a specialized focus. You'll be called doctor in your clinic, as you should be.

What gets confusing is this absurd idea of "Doctor of nursing", that is, Doctor Nurse. I simply can't believe this is being considered (though someone earlier stated that it has lost some momentum. For the time being.) It's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time, and given that nurses and doctors work in the same setting, it would be super confusing to patients.

 

[Haemulon]

For some strange reason everyone wants to be like a physician even when they are not. I have 100 bucks that says if physicians change their title from "doctor" to "biatch", there will be some therapist/nurse/pharmacist screaming "Hey I wanna be a biatch too".

Nice

 

[jonb12997]

For the reasons stated above I do agree that dentists and podiatrists should be called doctors in a clinical setting. They have their scope of practice somewhat limited (not to the degree that a DPT or NP do, but that's what they're training entails them to do, however they do it well! I will have NO problem sending my patients to see a podiatrists some day if they need surgery done on their foot, or a dentist if they need their jaw/mouth worked on...

I guess I could head down the "all patients need a primary care doctor to quarterback their care" line, but I don't think that's the point of this thread... another soap box for another thread

 

[BigBucksPTA]

Since many of you acknowledge that the 'doctor' title has been diluted in value, and pretty much any of us "allied health" folks (masseuses included) have been indiscriminately using the title, how about I suggest you guys drop the title altogether, and start calling yogurselves MDs, or DOs ? The nurse could tell the patient "The MD will be in to see you in a minute"

How does that sound?

 

[mountainman123]

If that is what you want- America and the world will follow. As of this second the word Dr. is gone and we can all thank BigBucksPTA for that. So I bet you are happy now that the discrimination is gone and we are all equals.

 

[Taus]

Since many of you acknowledge that the 'doctor' title has been diluted in value, and pretty much any of us "allied health" folks (masseuses included) have been indiscriminately using the title, how about I suggest you guys drop the title altogether, and start calling yogurselves MDs, or DOs ? The nurse could tell the patient "The MD will be in to see you in a minute"

How does that sound?

thats nothing new...the Physician will be in to see you in a minute...

 

[Tired Pigeon]

Since many of you acknowledge that the 'doctor' title has been diluted in value, and pretty much any of us "allied health" folks (masseuses included) have been indiscriminately using the title, how about I suggest you guys drop the title altogether, and start calling yogurselves MDs, or DOs ? The nurse could tell the patient "The MD will be in to see you in a minute"

How does that sound?

I don't think it matters what we call it; the patient's perception will drive things. We can call everybody down to the cafeteria staff "doctor", but the patient is still going to say, "I want to talk to the doctor," and is going to mean the MD (or DO).

 

[ForbiddenComma]

I don't think it matters what we call it; the patient's perception will drive things. We can call everybody down to the cafeteria staff "doctor", but the patient is still going to say, "I want to talk to the doctor," and is going to mean the MD (or DO).

Well I just think that shows how patients are insensitive to the feelings of midlevels. I think we need to start a massive drive to reform the English language so that "doctor" or "doc" isn't a casual synonym for "physician." After all, a midlevel's feelings might get hurt.

 

[BigBucksPTA]

If that is what you want- America and the world will follow. As of this second the word Dr. is gone and we can all thank BigBucksPTA for that. So I bet you are happy now that the discrimination is gone and we are all equals.

Yes I'm real happy. I always knew I was destined for greatness

 

[excalibur]

I'm not saying we'd all be great at it but at least we'd have a vague idea where to cut so not to cause nerve/vessel damage, how to insert the tube, how far back to push it . . .

True. True. I guess this is where the interpretation of "passable level" comes into play. I interpret that as successfully performing the procedure, not just knowing what needs to be done. My point is that many students who graduate med school will not be able to perform "certain skills" at what I consider to be a "passable level". Yes, they will most likely have the knowledge of what needs to be done, but just have not had enough experience with "certain skills". This comes in large part to what each student is interested in. 4th year students going into psych, path, rads, neurology are most likely not that interested in suturing, and the further they get into med school, the more they focus on their specialty and less on their suturing skills. Sure they may have done some on their surgery or OB/GYN rotation, but as an intern they most likely will leave the suturing to general surgery interns b/c they don't feel comfortable doing it.

This can be applied to several different "skills"....
IV's, intubations, LP's, A-lines, thoracentesis, chest tubes, suturing, I&D's, Foleys, epidurals, pelvic exams, use of a fundoscope, etc.

Everyone can get good at these with practice. Although med students get exposure to all of this and probably know what needs to be done, some students don't practice certain procedures (personal choice, not enough exposure), and as a result might not be considered at a passable level for that skill.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

Just a comment about the whole "Is there a doctor on this plane thing"

Apart from physicians specializing in EM, Trauma surg, maybe even IM or FP, do you think the average pathologist or diagnostic radiologist will be even remotely useful when someone's having an MI? Yeah, I can just see the psychiatrist running a code here. "Do I think you're having an MI? No, let me hear what you think. Is there a couch on this plane?!" Heck I'd put my money on a nurse or EMT, who'd probably be exponentially of more use. So using that as a metric to differentiate MDs from non-MDs in order to carry the title "doctor" just does not hold any water.

This comment demonstrates how little you know about medicine.

 

[LungMan]

I'm glad someone brought up the whole doctor nurse thing.

Someone I know saw a bumper sticker that said "My Doctor is an NP". This is going to get folks confused in a big hurry. Many people don't have a clue about medical heirarchy as it is without all the team members calling themselves "doctor".

I don't care what you call yourself in private or in the classroom but when you're in a clinical setting if you're not a physician don't expect to be called "doctor".

For you folks who want to be called "doctor" in the clinical setting: there is already a path established for you, it's called "Medical School".

LM

 

[saradoor]

With the new regulations, you need to get a DPT degree to be a physical therapist. Also with the new regulations, you need to have a PharmD to be a pharmacist.

I think that the title Doctor should be used when physicians talk to any of the two professionals above. It is a bit unfair when used only for you guys. If optometrists (ODs) can use the title, we should be able to use it too. PharmD and DPT are much harder degrees to get than ODs.

Comments?

No

 

[mountainman123]

I'm glad someone brought up the whole doctor nurse thing.

Someone I know saw a bumper sticker that said "My Doctor is an NP". This is going to get folks confused in a big hurry. Many people don't have a clue about medical heirarchy as it is without all the team members calling themselves "doctor".

I don't care what you call yourself in private or in the classroom but when you're in a clinical setting if you're not a physician don't expect to be called "doctor".

For you folks who want to be called "doctor" in the clinical setting: there is already a path established for you, it's called "Medical School".

LM

Bravo sir, bravo.....

 

[PharmGirl214]

I think it depends on the setting. Before I became interested in a career in healthcare, I would've gotten confused about the whole "doctor" thing. Most people just don't know. I think in healthcare settings, only physicians should be called doctor. It can get confusing!

Others in healthcare who have received a doctorate degree should be called called doctor in only educational environments. Now, a pharmacist I knew used the term doctor where he worked (not a hospital). He'd pick up the phone and say "Dr. XX, the pharmacist."

If everyone with a doctorate degree in healthcare started using the term doctor, patients would get confused! (From my experience) It all depends on the environment, when most people hear "doctor" they are thinking of a physician.

 

[Critical Mass]

I'm glad someone brought up the whole doctor nurse thing.

Someone I know saw a bumper sticker that said "My Doctor is an NP". This is going to get folks confused in a big hurry. Many people don't have a clue about medical heirarchy as it is without all the team members calling themselves "doctor".

I think that someone is just pointing out that you don't have to be an MD to be a provider. I think that titles such as "Nurse Practitioner" and "Physician's Associate" specifically rule out being a physician. Anyone who is honestly confused about that deserves to have the NP perform brain surgery on him/her.

Like I said before, schools and legislatures/regents decide who gets to be called "doctor" based on the degrees that they grant. Elected leaders typically have some say as far as accrediting these degrees is concerned. I don't care for the term since it comes from a Latin root for teacher. This is one case in which I think that the Brits are right on with respect to their healthcare system.

Do you call a pathologist "doctor?" If so, why would you label a Ph.D. pathologist differently than an M.D. (such as a clinical laboratory director which can be either)?

 

[Taurus]

"Hello Mrs. Jones. I am Dr. Taurus and I will be your physician. This is Dr. BigBucksPTA, she will be your physical therapist. This is Dr. Nurse, she is a DNP who will be assisting me. This is Dr. Pharm, he will be dispensing your medications."

With so many "Dr" titles being thrown around, I think that the patient will be smart enough to hone in on the role and not the title.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

I think that someone is just pointing out that you don't have to be an MD to be a provider. I think that titles such as "Nurse Practitioner" and "Physician's Associate" specifically rule out being a physician. Anyone who is honestly confused about that deserves to have the NP perform brain surgery on him/her.

Not to take this quote out of context or anything, but the average patient has very little idea what the titles NP or PA really mean. Even educated people don't know much about the myriad of titles we place on ourselves, as evidenced by so many premed noobs on this board asking for the umpteenth time what the differences are between an MD and DO. My grandmother would describe both the physician who did her cataract surgery and the lady who prescribes her glasses as "the eye doctor", even though the former is a ophthalmologist with a cornea fellowship and the latter is an optometrist. Just the other day I found myself arguing with my wife's sister that her second cousin is NOT in a radiology program at a damn community college. And I'll admit I had no idea what DPT stood for when I opened this thread for the first time. Sewing "Dr. so-and-so, DPT" onto your pocket is de facto telling your patients that you are a physician, as if they didn't have enough to be confused about. But hey if it'll earn you guys (not you CM but the OP) a little respect and some sleep at night then by all means

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

"Hello Mrs. Jones. I am Dr. Taurus and I will be your physician. This is Dr. BigBucksPTA, she will be your physical therapist. This is Dr. Nurse, she is a DNP who will be assisting me. This is Dr. Pharm, he will be dispensing your medications."
With so many "Dr" titles being thrown around, I think that the patient will be smart enough to hone in on the role and not the title.

Again I think that's just overestimating the intelligence of the average patient. Patients are pretty dumb about these things even in the best of circumstances. Add the quoted sentence to the long list of H&P questions, commentary about tests and procedures, and the fact that they're scared or in pain and it kind of goes in one ear and out the other. Now I might agree that it makes very little difference in the long run as far as their medical care is concerned, since it's only another of the endless number of things the patient is ignorant or confused about regarding said care. But it's optimistic bordering on naive to assume the patient is smart enough to work it out on their own, with or without the lengthy explanation their attending physician may or may not have time to provide (to the patient, much less their concerned family and friends) regarding the multiple facets and personalities working the case. I just don't see the necessity of it at all, so why try to fix something that ain't broke?

 

[TheMightyAngus]

"Hello Mrs. Jones. I am Dr. Taurus and I will be your physician. This is Dr. BigBucksPTA, she will be your physical therapist. This is Dr. Nurse, she is a DNP who will be assisting me. This is Dr. Pharm, he will be dispensing your medications."

Only in American would this even be an issue. I trace it back to the ridiculous practice of making everyone feel good about themselves at whatever expense necessary. Like giving everyone the same title has some inherent value because it paints everyone as being equal and important.

It's a shame that we have to fight to pass bills like the Health Care Truth and Transparency Act so patients don't get confused. Where else in the world would this happen?

Health Care Truth and Transparency Act of 2006

 

[Chinorean]

I think what's most important is the patient's perspective, not the egos of healthcare professionals. People take what their doctor tells them pretty seriously, there's a lot of trust associated with the title -- "My doctor told me ______ so I have to do what he says." Now I think if those people found out that their doctor didn't actually go through medical school, they would feel like they were being tricked. Sure it's biased, but titles aren't for the individual, they are distinguishing marks for everyone else to know what you are. And if what you are is a physical therapist, they don't consider you a doctor. That doesn't mean they love you any less.

 

[NEATOMD]

PharmD and DPT are much harder degrees to get than ODs.

Comments?

Obviously you've got a degree in each to compare?

Honestly, it doesn't matter to me. When I applied to medical school, my goal was to be a doctor, not to be called one. I'd say that is still true today.

 

[Critical Mass]

This reminds me of another thread that is long overdue for a comeback...

Should physical therapsists be allowed to wear a white coat?

 

[Northerner]

This reminds me of another thread that is long overdue for a comeback...

Should physical therapsists be allowed to wear a white coat?

Let's just get this over with.

Obligatory response from anti extremist:
WHAT?! Are you kidding?! A DPT is the equivalent of a 4th grade education! Only the most special, shining stars of the medical community have the distinct and hallowed honor to don the sacred white coat. I think they should make them in fabric that leaves third degree burns on non-MDs. Can we put some NIH dollars into that? We could title the proposal "Saving Lives Because Everyone Else Is Totally Incompetent", or maybe "When Will These Med School Rejects Learn Their Place" or maybe in the interest of brevity just, "How Dare They". In fact, I don't think they should be able to use penlights on patients anymore. I mean the odds of blinding a patient are pretty low, but if anyone could **** it up, it's...you know....everyone but me.

Obligatory response from pro extremist:
OF COURSE! I can wear whatever I want, how dare you tell me I can't?! DPTs are the exact same.....no...BETTER than MDs! In fact, I don't think MDs should be able to wear them anymore, MD's are obsolete. Everyone knows they're circling the drain. Whatever, it doesn't confuse patients in the slightest, patients are smart enough to know. They can sense how "doctory" you are, and I'm doctory. Oh yeah. I mean, I turned down an MD school for DPT school ("physical therapeutic medical school", that is), mainly because I agreed with the philosophy. You can't tell us we can't wear white coats, it's JUST A COAT, gosh! Just give it. You people are so insecure it's embarrassing.

 

[deleted77919]

Let's just get this over with.

Obligatory response from anti extremist:
Obligatory response from pro extremist:

Honestly, I think your sarcasm/jokes are usually only ok . . . but this was excellent.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

Agreed... well done Northerner

 

[8744]

Doing procedures on the dead or models is different than doing them on the living. There are 4th years at your school and every school who if told to put a chest tube in a patient would say, "HELP!!!" These would be the students who are not going into surgery or the surgical subspecialties. Actually, when I was in Houston doing my surgery rotation, some of the interns even had trouble placing them.

(Sheepishly shuffling his feet and looking for an opportunity to change the subject)

 

[8744]

Not to take this quote out of context or anything, but the average patient has very little idea what the titles NP or PA really mean. Even educated people don't know much about the myriad of titles we place on ourselves, as evidenced by so many premed noobs on this board asking for the umpteenth time what the differences are between an MD and DO. My grandmother would describe both the physician who did her cataract surgery and the lady who prescribes her glasses as "the eye doctor", even though the former is a ophthalmologist with a cornea fellowship and the latter is an optometrist. Just the other day I found myself arguing with my wife's sister that her second cousin is NOT in a radiology program at a damn community college. And I'll admit I had no idea what DPT stood for when I opened this thread for the first time. Sewing "Dr. so-and-so, DPT" onto your pocket is de facto telling your patients that you are a physician, as if they didn't have enough to be confused about. But hey if it'll earn you guys (not you CM but the OP) a little respect and some sleep at night then by all means

Oh, so I'm not the only person with relatives like that.

"My daughter is training to be a radiologist."

"Oh really, at what program is she training?"

"Jackson Bluff Technical College."


Not to mention that some of my relatives don't understand the differences between specialties. I think they know that Surgeons are different than anybody else but all knowledge ends there.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

They know that surgeons are who rescue people with bombs in their chest.

Speaking of... I wonder why there aren't any physical therapist TV dramas?

 

[soeagerun2or]

Agreed. In the U.K., chiropractors, physical therapists, pharmacists, osteopaths, podiatrists, and optometrists all earn their credentials via a 4-year (and occasionally a 3-year) undergraduate degree. They are not "doctors" (interestingly, dentists and vets are not called "doctor" either - unless they also have a Ph.D.). The aforementioned professionals are not doctors and British society functions nicely with these dedicated folks. When I first moved to the U.S., I was AMAZED at how many degrees confer the title "doctor" upon graduates. Maybe the massive cost of tuition urged schools to hand out titles to make it all seem worthwhile. Just a thought......

It's penis envy gotten out of control.

How about I suggest you guys drop the title altogether, and start calling yogurselves MDs, or DOs ? The nurse could tell the patient "The MD will be in to see you in a minute"

That is just ridiculous. Patients want to see the doctor and they mean the MD. If an allied health field is too uncomfortable in its position and needs the Dr. salutation to feel good itself maybe it should rethink its role. Having a "doctoral level degree" does not entitle one to be called doctor within a hospital. Even outside the hospital it is questionable; an attorney has a JD and a professor has a PhD, both are "doctors" but neither are pretentious enough to be called doctor.

 

[gerido]

With the new regulations, you need to get a DPT degree to be a physical therapist. Also with the new regulations, you need to have a PharmD to be a pharmacist.

I think that the title Doctor should be used when physicians talk to any of the two professionals above. It is a bit unfair when used only for you guys. If optometrists (ODs) can use the title, we should be able to use it too. PharmD and DPT are much harder degrees to get than ODs.

Comments?

How do you come to the conclusion that PharmD and DPT are much harder degrees than ODs?

 

[Taurus]

Also FYI - the APTA (thats our governing body) is demanding the right to treat a patient without the need for a physician referral. Once that goes through in all the 50 states, then you'll see a huge increase in our prestige, our salary and you'll be the ones calling us eminences

God, why do so many midlevels have inferiority complexes and want to invade our medical turf?

If you guys don't know what midlevels can do to your specialty, you need to visit the Anesthesiology forum and see what CRNA's are doing to the anesthesiology field. Or check out what the NP's are doing to primary care. Physicians must squash any midlevel attempt on their specialty before it becomes a problem.