What do y'all think - Physical therapists should be called Doc too

[ForbiddenComma]

It already is a problem. An NP told me flat out that primary care docs will soon be "obsolete" and it was hard to disagree. Why should the local HMO hire an FP when they can get two NPs for the same price?

Same thing with our "D"PT friend here. He didn't want to spend the time and money on med school, he probably was not able to get into med school, but he wants to be a cool doctor like on TV anyway. And for a fraction of the salary of a real PM&R doc? the HMOs could not be happier.

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[soeagerun2or]

I can't help but to lol and wonder what's happened to America. We've lost our sense of quality and delayed gratification to the point that we're willing to accept health care from self appointed, self regulated, lesser trained practitioners because we're willing to save a buck?

There exists a huge difference between buying a Geo instead of a Cadillac to save money and going to someone who has a bachelors degree and 3 years of undergraduate medical training (residency is graduate medical education) instead of someone who has a bachelors, 4 years undergraduate medical training and at least 3 years of post-graduate training: if the Geo breaks down you buy a new one but if you die you're dead.

 

[Taurus]

I concede that physicians probably have lost primary care and anesthesiology to the midlevels. But where they haven't gotten a foothold yet, we need to squash every effort of theirs.

 

[dutchman]

I concede that physicians probably have lost primary care and anesthesiology to the midlevels. But where they haven't gotten a foothold yet, we need to squash every effort of theirs.

And the key difference betwen you and them is that they band together(in unions and associations) and fight, physicians on the other hand think they are too cool for that.

 

[smkoepke]

"Hello Mrs. Jones. I am Dr. Taurus and I will be your physician. This is Dr. BigBucksPTA, she will be your physical therapist. This is Dr. Nurse, she is a DNP who will be assisting me. This is Dr. Pharm, he will be dispensing your medications."

With so many "Dr" titles being thrown around, I think that the patient will be smart enough to hone in on the role and not the title.

Or just think that they are at the best hospital ever... seriously as a student nurse, i am on board with clarification of titles, although I think that most patients should have the brain power to understand the difference between a medical doctor and one of physical therapy, dentistry etc... but honestly, as a student, I have seen a lot of blurring of the professional roles that confused me as it is. PT's talking about medications and what might be good pain control choices to the patient (not really their scope), nurses doing things without an order (mostly fairly benign things but a few things), RTs getting involved in nursing procedures and teaching above and beyond things within their level of expertise etc... It is confusing enough to be in the hospital. Everyone is wearing scrubs so it looks like you have a million docs and nurses when in reality half of the people that you see are janitors, dietary aids, cna staff or other personel. On top of that everybody has strange initials on their badges (MD, PhD, DO, NP, ARNP, AA, PA-C, PT, PTA, RN, RN-BSN, CCRN, CRNA, RDA, etc...). Do we really need to add another layer of confusion?

 

[anon-y-mouse]

Just a comment about the whole "Is there a doctor on this plane thing"

Apart from physicians specializing in EM, Trauma surg, maybe even IM or FP, do you think the average pathologist or diagnostic radiologist will be even remotely useful when someone's having an MI? Yeah, I can just see the psychiatrist running a code here. "Do I think you're having an MI? No, let me hear what you think. Is there a couch on this plane?!" Heck I'd put my money on a nurse or EMT, who'd probably be exponentially of more use. So using that as a metric to differentiate MDs from non-MDs in order to carry the title "doctor" just does not hold any water.

This is not true. A psychiatrist still goes through a 1 year intern year in medicine, post-graduation, pre-psychiatry training. 80 hours a week times 1 year of running codes and so on is pretty significant experience. All the psychiatrists I know (and my psychiatry professors also, in fact) are comfortable handling emergency code-type situations and have, in the past. Now would I want a psychiatrist handling someone's chf/iddm with a million other co-morbidities? probably not, but non-IM physicians would probably have a hard time with that too.

 

[naegleria brain]

i've been tossed between three different optometrists because i've refused to call them Dr. X (it's always Mr. or Mrs. X, or sometimes a hearty 'Bob')

either i'm being an dingus or they feel so inadequate they need to compensate by commanding a "Dr." title...
...like soup nazis, "no glasses for you!"

personally, i think it's both
fyi - i finally figured out the answer, and i'm seeing an ophthalmologist, whom I certainly have no qualms calling Dr. X. Incidentally, he insists I call him Dave...go figure

 

[ForbiddenComma]

i've been tossed between three different optometrists because i've refused to call them Dr. X (it's always Mr. or Mrs. X, or sometimes a hearty 'Bob')

either i'm being an dingus or they feel so inadequate they need to compensate by commanding a "Dr." title...
...like soup nazis, "no glasses for you!"

personally, i think it's both
fyi - i finally figured out the answer, and i'm seeing an ophthalmologist, whom I certainly have no qualms calling Dr. X. Incidentally, he insists I call him Dave...go figure

Interesting you bring that up I've noticed that nobody is more obsessed with titles and degrees than some midlevels.

A lot of NPs have a string of initials after their name that is at some level, kind of sad. "Jane Schmoe, ARNP, MSN, RN, CNP, LOL, WTF, OMG" and they're all embroidered on her coat. These are the NPs that believe in "equality between providers" and that physicians are no better -- but if you call them a mere "nurse" they'll rip you a new one for equating them with a lesser specialty.

 

[deleted77919]

Personally I am going to embroider my coat with:

Dr. Dakota, MD OMG WTF BBQ.

Just to see who notices.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

RNs in the corporate world are horrible about piling on all those abbreviations after their name. Our nurse case managers at my last job would have an average of 5 abbreviations following BSN in their email signature. None of us knew what the hell any of them meant, but I'm guessing that all those extra certifications cost someone (probably my employer) a lot of dough.

Speaking of which, throwing all your degrees out there just bugs me. I never put JD on my email correspondence because I wasn't acting as an attorney. Some people would put things like MA or MS to indicate that they had a masters in something -- who cares? It reminds me of this woman I knew in law school who had a Ph.D. and made sure everyone knew it. She put Ph.D. after her name in everything and even incorporated it into her hotmail email address. I suspect she signed her christmas cards "Susie Smith, Ph.D.".

 

[NonTradMed]

RNs in the corporate world are horrible about piling on all those abbreviations after their name. Our nurse case managers at my last job would have an average of 5 abbreviations following BSN in their email signature. None of us knew what the hell any of them meant, but I'm guessing that all those extra certifications cost someone (probably my employer) a lot of dough.

Speaking of which, throwing all your degrees out there just bugs me. I never put JD on my email correspondence because I wasn't acting as an attorney. Some people would put things like MA or MS to indicate that they had a masters in something -- who cares? It reminds me of this woman I knew in law school who had a Ph.D. and made sure everyone knew it. She put Ph.D. after her name in everything and even incorporated it into her hotmail email address. I suspect she signed her Christmas cards "Susie Smith, Ph.D.".

I'm the exact opposite. I feel embarrassed about showing my degrees. I know that in certain fields, especially those relating to the academic world, having degrees is good and all, but most of the time, I feel like I'm overeducated and undecided about what I'm going to do to. When I get my MD, I think I will keep it within the patient care setting. Outside of it, I'll stick to good ol' NonTradmed LOL. I think people who show off ALL their degrees for whatever reason is pretentious and indicates a sign of insecurity. Most people I know who have terminal degrees only show their terminal degree and usually for official papers, not a string of misc degrees and certifications in everything from hospital documents to Christmas cards.

 

[fightingspirit]

For some strange reason everyone wants to be like a physician even when they are not. I have 100 bucks that says if physicians change their title from "doctor" to "biatch", there will be some therapist/nurse/pharmacist screaming "Hey I wanna be a biatch too".

maaaad funny

 

[Critical Mass]

I concede that physicians probably have lost primary care and anesthesiology to the midlevels. But where they haven't gotten a foothold yet, we need to squash every effort of theirs.

I wouldn't lump gas in there because crna programs aren't that widespread. Gas is probably the specialty that is most quickly growing in terms of competativeness. I'm told that twenty years ago, only the bottom of the barrell applied to gas. Now it's probably tougher to match than general surgery.

 

[snoozer]

You know what? Let's call Physical therapists, nurses, radiology techs, whatevers all doctors... so that the 3% tax that is being discussed in another thread applies to them too.

Hey, wanna be called Doctor? Just pay this nifty tax...
Sigh

 

[saradoor]

Don't forget the receptionist who might have a "professional" doctorate too (Doctor of Office Assistance, aka DOA)

 

[olliemctuffy]

There are a lot of doctoral degrees, and these people are indeed doctors. Doctor of philosophy, doctor of pharmacy, doctor of physical therapy, etc.

However, they are not physicians, there are only 2 degrees in the United States that allow you to use the title physician, MD and DO. Legally, these are the only people who can use this title. It is important that this status be maintained and that naturopaths, chiropractors, pa's, np's, etc not be allowed to use this designation.

 

[Northerner]

However, they are not physicians, there are only 2 degrees in the United States that allow you to use the title physician, MD and DO. Legally, these are the only people who can use this title. It is important that this status be maintained and that naturopaths, chiropractors, pa's, np's, etc not be allowed to use this designation.

Try telling that to the podiatrists. And increasingly, everyone else.

What ends up happening is that the peripheral care providers start tacking on more adjectives to describe themselves, so they can still use the word "physician" or "doctor" or "medical school". e.g. podiatric physician. The only folks who seem to be content at the equilibrium we enjoy are dentists. They don't go around telling people they went to "dental medical school", they say dental school. Or say they're "dental physicians", they say they're dentists. Since they don't, no one has a problem calling them by the title "Dr." because the difference (and yes, they do exist between physicians and peripheral care providers) is obvious and well-accepted.

 

[calcaneus]

Since I'm going into podiatry I'll leave that last one alone. But I think some of the confusion here could be in that "Doctor" refers to the degree you hold, not your profession. A "doctor" holds a doctorate degree and therefore gets the title.

Since I'm clearly biased, I'll leave podiatrists out of this, but MD's/DO's can distinguish themselves from everyone else by refering to their profession (physician) and not their degree. I.e., when someone asks what you do, say "I'm a physician, or I'm a OB/GYN" not "I'm a doctor." Everyone knows both, but the former is more accurate, especially if you're concerned about making sure everyone knows how important you are.

 

[Tired]

Since I'm going into podiatry I'll leave that last one alone. But I think some of the confusion here could be in that "Doctor" refers to the degree you hold, not your profession. A "doctor" holds a doctorate degree and therefore gets the title.

Yeah, you wish.

The "Doctor" that refers to the "degree you hold" is clearly not what the lay public hears in a health care situation. They expect that "Doctor" means "Medical Doctor", and everyone knows it. If podiatry, PT, NPs, and other assorted workers want to try to trick their patients into thinking they are MDs, I guess that's their perogative these days. But eventually when the patient catches on and says something like, "Oh! You're a physical therapist! I thought you said you were a doctor . . . " then you're just going to feel like an idiot explaining that you have a "Doctorate" in your field.

 

[saradoor]

Since I'm going into podiatry I'll leave that last one alone. But I think some of the confusion here could be in that "Doctor" refers to the degree you hold, not your profession. A "doctor" holds a doctorate degree and therefore gets the title.

Since I'm clearly biased, I'll leave podiatrists out of this, but MD's/DO's can distinguish themselves from everyone else by refering to their profession (physician) and not their degree. I.e., when someone asks what you do, say "I'm a physician, or I'm a OB/GYN" not "I'm a doctor." Everyone knows both, but the former is more accurate, especially if you're concerned about making sure everyone knows how important you are.

No, in a hospital or alike setting it should be clear that a "Doctor" is a "Medical Doctor". It is the convention around the world. Medical doctors educated outside of North America may not hold a "doctorate" degree but they are still Doctors (when licensed).

 

[deleted77919]

No, in a hospital or alike setting it should be clear that a "Doctor" is a "Medical Doctor". It is the convention around the world. Medical doctors educated outside of North America may not hold a "doctorate" degree but they are still Doctors (when licensed).

I can see it now, a DNP telling someone with an MBBS they can't be referred to as "Doctor" because they don't have a real doctorate, only a lowly "Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery." Sigh . . .

 

[guitarguy09]

Just a comment about the whole "Is there a doctor on this plane thing"

Apart from physicians specializing in EM, Trauma surg, maybe even IM or FP, do you think the average pathologist or diagnostic radiologist will be even remotely useful when someone's having an MI? Yeah, I can just see the psychiatrist running a code here. "Do I think you're having an MI? No, let me hear what you think. Is there a couch on this plane?!" Heck I'd put my money on a nurse or EMT, who'd probably be exponentially of more use. So using that as a metric to differentiate MDs from non-MDs in order to carry the title "doctor" just does not hold any water.

I don't want to get involved in this never-ending debate because that's what it is... never-ending. However, I saw this and had to comment. My dad is a pathologist and he has stabalized someone on a plane, until he made the pilot eventually land so the lady could seek further medical attention. So yes, a "pathologist" or any type of MD/DO could handle the situation since we will have had the training. That being said, I think when you're up on a plane, almost anyone in a healthcare field (nurses, etc.) is better than the average person or flight attendant (although maybe not health care fields where this training is not emphasized, like in optometry or PT for example). In the end, who really cares... just be good at your job and all your colleagues will have the respect for you that you deserve. Life is too short to care about titles, and often from my experience if you're good, the patients don't care either.

 

[turkleton]

I can't believe this thread is still going. Not that I ever went to med school to validate my ego, but after reading... oh the 3 millionth thread about someone whining about their title, I'm am glad that I don't spend three quarters of my day wondering what others think of my worth, how to best manipulate my name to extract the most respect, how to arrange random letters to make myself feel better. One thing I feel non physician health professionals confuse is the respect doctors show to other doctors as lack of respect for their own field. Med school is a unique experience as is residency and this is a connect for all doctors regardless of specialty... until you go through it, not matter how much people whine about it, you can't understand it. So not calling a PT or whatever a doctor has nothing to do with not deeming them to be good at their job or thinking their job is useless. Not only is there the large public perception/role of physician element others talked about, but you have to understand... you don't have that same bond forged from a common experience. That's all it is. So relax for god sakes.

 

[calcaneus]

I specifically said I wasn't arguing about podiatries standing. Personally, I tell people I am going to Podiatric Medical school becuase I don't want anyone to be confused about my education/job etc. I simply mentioned I was going into podiatry to be forthcoming about any bias I may have because I specifically don't want to be deceptive about anything here.

I posted the above thread for the many friends and family of mine who went to 6 or so years of graduate education to get a PhD in anatomy, microbiology etc. Many of whom teach you med students and I think they (I'm making no argument here about podiatry) deserve the Dr. title as I mentioned before, it refers to the degree not the job. Whether you like it or not, whether it's used correctly or not (by everyone), that is the way it is.

They've worked and earned it just as much as an MD/DO does. I don't think they should have their title stripped from them because everyone doesn't understand so that physicians can be separated.

 

[saradoor]

I specifically said I wasn't arguing about podiatries standing. Personally, I tell people I am going to Podiatric Medical school becuase I don't want anyone to be confused about my education/job etc. I simply mentioned I was going into podiatry to be forthcoming about any bias I may have because I specifically don't want to be deceptive about anything here.

I posted the above thread for the many friends and family of mine who went to 6 or so years of graduate education to get a PhD in anatomy, microbiology etc. Many of whom teach you med students and I think they (I'm making no argument here about podiatry) deserve the Dr. title as I mentioned before, it refers to the degree not the job. Whether you like it or not, whether it's used correctly or not (by everyone), that is the way it is.

They've worked and earned it just as much as an MD/DO does. I don't think they should have their title stripped from them because everyone doesn't understand so that physicians can be separated.

Then why don't you start a new thread "Ph.D should be called Doc too"

 

[spreebee]

Dude or dudette

I hope you're not trying to diss the PT profession - I hope u realize that without us, orthopods would be outta business.

We just demand the respect we deserve.

Also FYI - the APTA (thats our governing body) is demanding the right to treat a patient without the need for a physician referral. Once that goes through in all the 50 states, then you'll see a huge increase in our prestige, our salary and you'll be the ones calling us eminences

All in good spirit, constructive discussion only

Without you guys, M.D.'s would have have an extra class in med school concerning rehabilitation after injury.

Without you guys, Chiropractors would be incharge of most of the dirty work.

Not trying to offend anyone or anything, but that's the truth. In terms of being called doctor, I think it would give people a false sense and think you were an M.D. For example: Dr. Joe's Office... Well, someone might walk in the door expecting to be treated for gono or something. Just would bring more confusion. Good Day...

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

I specifically said I wasn't arguing about podiatries standing. Personally, I tell people I am going to Podiatric Medical school becuase I don't want anyone to be confused about my education/job etc. I simply mentioned I was going into podiatry to be forthcoming about any bias I may have because I specifically don't want to be deceptive about anything here.

I posted the above thread for the many friends and family of mine who went to 6 or so years of graduate education to get a PhD in anatomy, microbiology etc. Many of whom teach you med students and I think they (I'm making no argument here about podiatry) deserve the Dr. title as I mentioned before, it refers to the degree not the job. Whether you like it or not, whether it's used correctly or not (by everyone), that is the way it is.

They've worked and earned it just as much as an MD/DO does. I don't think they should have their title stripped from them because everyone doesn't understand so that physicians can be separated.

Who said anything about taking the title away from professors? Or taking it away from anybody for that matter?

 

[calcaneus]

It seemed as though some of the people posting didn't want anyone except MD/DO's to be able to be called Dr.

If I was wrong, then I guess I wasted some space on this posting.

I will say, as a future podiatrist, I do think it is wrong to intentionally deceive or even passively allow patients to think you are an MD/DO. I hope to be the best podiatric surgeon I can...no more, no less and I don't pretend that I will be anything other than that. I don't hope that I can do everything an ortho can do, because that's not what my training will be. For people in non-MD/DO healthcare professions, we need to be happy with the jobs we choose or get another job.

It does seem funny to me though, because the same issues that some podiatrists and MD/DO's seem to have in some cases regarding legitimacy are the same issues I've seen at hospitals going on between MD's and DO's. I don't want this to be misconstrued as an argument that DPM's are the same as DO's or MD's though, just a funny anecdote to me...maybe only to me?

 

[BigBucksPTA]

Without you guys, M.D.'s would have have an extra class in med school concerning rehabilitation after injury.

Without you guys, Chiropractors would be incharge of most of the dirty work.

Not trying to offend anyone or anything, but that's the truth. In terms of being called doctor, I think it would give people a false sense and think you were an M.D. For example: Dr. Joe's Office... Well, someone might walk in the door expecting to be treated for gono or something. Just would bring more confusion. Good Day...

If Dr Phil can call himself doctor (M.Phil in psychology or something like that), then DPTs/DPMs/PharmD's oughta be able too.

I also view a future world where physical therapists refer patients to physicians, not vice versa, and physicians call up PTs to give them status reports.

I also think that ODs are probably the least qualified among the midlevels to call themselves doctor, yet no one seems to question their title. Is this because when people think "eyes" they automatically assume scientific knowledge? Can the OD folks on here educate us - what exactly do you guys do other than "Is 1 better or 2? Is 2 better or 3?". Where does your knowledge end and that of an ophthalmologist begin? That will help me understand why you're so "deserving" of being called doctor.

I'm not flaming any profession, just want to know why people differentiate between midlevels.

 

[BigBucksPTA]

Try telling that to the podiatrists. And increasingly, everyone else.

What ends up happening is that the peripheral care providers start tacking on more adjectives to describe themselves, so they can still use the word "physician" or "doctor" or "medical school". e.g. podiatric physician. The only folks who seem to be content at the equilibrium we enjoy are dentists. They don't go around telling people they went to "dental medical school", they say dental school. Or say they're "dental physicians", they say they're dentists. Since they don't, no one has a problem calling them by the title "Dr." because the difference (and yes, they do exist between physicians and peripheral care providers) is obvious and well-accepted.

What in the heck is "podiatric medical school"???????

So does that mean I went to "physical therapy medical school" ???? Cool!

 

[calcaneus]

I'm going to guess you don't want a serious reply to your question concerning podiatric medical school BigBucksPTA?

 

[snoozer]

]If Dr Phil can call himself doctor (M.Phil in psychology or something like that), then DPTs/DPMs/PharmD's oughta be able too.
[/B]
I also view a future world where physical therapists refer patients to physicians, not vice versa, and physicians call up PTs to give them status reports.

I also think that ODs are probably the least qualified among the midlevels to call themselves doctor, yet no one seems to question their title. Is this because when people think "eyes" they automatically assume scientific knowledge? Can the OD folks on here educate us - what exactly do you guys do other than "Is 1 better or 2? Is 2 better or 3?". Where does your knowledge end and that of an ophthalmologist begin? That will help me understand why you're so "deserving" of being called doctor.

I'm not flaming any profession, just want to know why people differentiate between midlevels.

1. If a patient came into the hospital and said, well I thought I should be taking this cholesterol reducing medication but Dr. Phil said I was just being a wuss about death... you can bet that the physician will sit down and say to him that. Dr. Phil is NOT a doctor in the sense that the patient is thinking of Dr. Phil. I don't think there is a problem with calling yourself Doctor, do whatever you want. But your patients who want to see an MD when they say doctor, they still won't think of you as one.

2. This future world you speak of is HIGHLY unlikely because: physical therapists learn NO pathophysiology in relation to pharmacology, immunology, biochemistry, and they learn ZERO medical management. Thus, unless you're AGAIN talking about rehab, this possibilty doesn't even exist.

3. An opthalmologist still went to MEDICAL school so his or her basis in all of the above listed subjects (pathophysiology, medical management) are still much stronger than that of a PT masters where you learn some muscles.

4. If you aren't flaming any professions, you should refrain from saying why are you so "deserving" to be called doctor, or how some other midlevels are way less qualified than you... that's the definition of flaming. oh wait... you're a troll nevermind.

 

[BigBucksPTA]

1.

3. An opthalmologist still went to MEDICAL school so his or her basis in all of the above listed subjects (pathophysiology, medical management) are still much stronger than that of a PT masters where you learn some muscles.

.

Sorry, but I think you missed my whole point about ODs vs ophthalmologists. Never mind.....

And PT school is more than just learning about "some muscles" ROFL

 

[calcaneus]

If you do want a serious reply, send me a PM, cause I think we've clogged up the allopathic medical students forum enough.

Although I don't pretend podiatry is anything more than it is, I will defend it when people denegrate it for no good reason.

 

[snoozer]

Sorry, but I think you missed my whole point about ODs vs ophthalmologists. Never mind.....

And PT school is more than just learning about "some muscles" ROFL

Frankly, you certainly don't make it sound difficult given your grasp on how medicine vs PT works.

As for OD, what makes them qualified, you're in the wrong forum. We're allo here ... I figured you might need the reminder or like I said before, you're a troll.

 

[soeagerun2or]

If Dr Phil can call himself doctor (M.Phil in psychology or something like that), then DPTs/DPMs/PharmD's oughta be able too.

The general consensus is you can call yourself doctor if you have a doctoral level degree but you're still not a doctor in the population's mind's eye. Take it as you wish.

 

[Chinorean]

If Dr Phil can call himself doctor (M.Phil in psychology or something like that), then DPTs/DPMs/PharmD's oughta be able too.

Dr. Phil should NOT call himself a doctor. His title is intentionally misleading to give himself more credibility. Curse you, Oprah, for bringing this man upon us.

 

[turkleton]

"Doctor" Phil is a no talent ass clown. I can't stand that man and his well trimmed mustache.

 

[Northerner]

If you do want a serious reply, send me a PM, cause I think we've clogged up the allopathic medical students forum enough.

Although I don't pretend podiatry is anything more than it is, I will defend it when people denegrate it for no good reason.

Sorry to have dragged your profession into it. I was just making a point.

However, I disagree with your point about Ph.D's. No one would challenge their right to use the title "Dr." in an academic setting. In a clinical setting, it would be inappropriate. Combined clinical/academic setting? They usually clarify willingly, as they have no desire to mislead people, likely owing to security with their career, expertise, and level of respect those things bring them.

 

[calcaneus]

All in good fun Northerner.

I have to admit fault on my part...I guess I misunderstood the points on this. I didn't realize people were talking about PhDs refering to eachother as doctor in a clinical settiing. I thought people were arguing that only MD/DO's ever should be refered to as Dr...my mistake. maybe now you can understand why I got into this discussion. Especially since I can't imagine a situation in which a micro prof. would be in a hospital other than to be a patient (speaking as a current micro grad student).

This can be a rhetorical question, but what would a PhD who does work in a hospital, possibly in the lab or something, be called though? It seems maybe every "DR" who wears a white coat should have their degree with their name and not just "Dr. John Doe," as well as on their name tags...since the legitimate concern here is not to confuse patients.

Okay, I've kinda gotten obsessed with this thread, and although I think a discussion involving other professions should have many viewpoints, I don't want to be troll (if it's not too late) and I'll really try to get away from your guys' forum...sorry!

 

[Northerner]

All in good fun Northerner.

I have to admit fault on my part...I guess I misunderstood the points on this. I didn't realize people were talking about PhDs refering to eachother as doctor in a clinical settiing. I thought people were arguing that only MD/DO's ever should be refered to as Dr...my mistake. maybe now you can understand why I got into this discussion. Especially since I can't imagine a situation in which a micro prof. would be in a hospital other than to be a patient (speaking as a current micro grad student).

This can be a rhetorical question, but what would a PhD who does work in a hospital, possibly in the lab or something, be called though? It seems maybe every "DR" who wears a white coat should have their degree with their name and not just "Dr. John Doe," as well as on their name tags...since the legitimate concern here is not to confuse patients.

Okay, I've kinda gotten obsessed with this thread, and although I think a discussion involving other professions should have many viewpoints, I don't want to be troll (if it's not too late) and I'll really try to get away from your guys' forum...sorry!

Actually, the controversy was about both academicians and non-medical doctor clinicians using the title in a clinical environment. Podiatry was used as an example earlier, to demostrate that while their scope of practice as clinicians is analogous to a dentist, there is a phenomenon among podiatrists of apparent discomfort with "just" calling themselves "podiatrist" whereas the same phenomenon is not seen in dentists (i.e. dentists apparently have no movement to be called "dental physician" or to call dental school "dental medical school", etc.). In return for that, physicians have no qualms with acknowledging dentists as the undisputed experts in teeth and calling them Dr. In my opinion, both should be called "Dr.", but adding "physician" or "medical school" at the end of things is silly and confusing.

Just an interesting note: there is currently 1 thread on the first page of the dental forum that seeks to discuss how dentists compare to physicians. There are currently 9 on the first page of the podiatry forum. There must be something afoot....

 

[MacGyver]

For some strange reason everyone wants to be like a physician even when they are not. I have 100 bucks that says if physicians change their title from "doctor" to "biatch", there will be some therapist/nurse/pharmacist screaming "Hey I wanna be a biatch too".

Exactly. I bet if all docs started wearing blue coats instead of white it would be a matter of months before all the pretenders start doing the same thing.

The bottom line is that they are envious of us and want our money/prestige.

 

[MacGyver]

Nope we're still arguing whether to use a master's as the degree of choice. No real desire for a Doctorate. There is some discussion for a doctorate for a terminal degree for teaching. However we decided that for now the master's is the terminal degree. Some people get a DHsc for teaching. I'm getting my PhD in economics (and my patients will still call me Dave).

David Carpenter, PA-C

Come back and talk to me in 10 years. I'll bet you a sizable wager that within that time period there will be talk of changing PA schools to doctoral level for clinical work.

Hell it might even be in 5 years, with these new DNP programs coming out. Its a matter of time before PAs feel "inferior" to DNPs and try to ante up.

 

[MacGyver]

I wouldn't lump gas in there because crna programs aren't that widespread. Gas is probably the specialty that is most quickly growing in terms of competativeness. I'm told that twenty years ago, only the bottom of the barrell applied to gas. Now it's probably tougher to match than general surgery.

Uhh you are wrong on both counts. CRNA programs are widespread, and CRNAs provide roughly 60% of all gas in the USA. Their presence in the field is HUGE.

Also, gen surg is definitely more competitive than gas.

 

[PlasticMan]

The title of doctor confers a special relationship to the patient and the patient expects a certain level of skills, knowledge and expertise from the Dr. There is also more responsibility with being a Dr. Who does everyone go after in the malpractice suits? - NOT mid level clinicians. Physicians MUST get involved at the political level. Remember, Physicians are the experts in medicine; if they do not speak their minds on matters (such as legislation,etc.), others (meaning mid-level clinicians) will speak and influence decision making.

If these people want to be called "Dr.", why don't they go to medical school?

 

[somnolent]

I think that the title Doctor should be used when physicians talk to any of the two professionals above. It is a bit unfair when used only for you guys. If optometrists (ODs) can use the title, we should be able to use it too. PharmD and DPT are much harder degrees to get than ODs.

Comments?

Ok, so OD is 3+1

PharmD is 6 years
DPT is 6 years

See the point? Spread the "doctor" wealth liberally.

I also think that ODs are probably the least qualified among the midlevels to call themselves doctor, yet no one seems to question their title. Is this because when people think "eyes" they automatically assume scientific knowledge? Can the OD folks on here educate us - what exactly do you guys do other than "Is 1 better or 2? Is 2 better or 3?". Where does your knowledge end and that of an ophthalmologist begin? That will help me understand why you're so "deserving" of being called doctor.

I'm not flaming any profession, just want to know why people differentiate between midlevels.

You must really have something against the OD folk. First you assume optometrists have less eduction than DPTs, then generalize their practice by the "1 or 2" comment. Nice.

So is this how your world works? "Hi, I'm Dr. BigBucksPTA. I'll be your doctor today. As your doctor, I would like you to get up on this table. Ok, now...stretch 1..2..3...and relax. By the way, how do you like my long white coat?"

 

[ForbiddenComma]

You must really have something against the OD folk. First you assume optometrists have less eduction than DPTs, then generalize their practice by the "1 or 2" comment. Nice.

So is this how your world works? "Hi, I'm Dr. BigBucksPTA. I'll be your doctor today. As your doctor, I would like you to get up on this table. Ok, now...stretch 1..2..3...and relax. By the way, how do you like my long white coat?"

It's kind of amusing how he bags on all the other midlevels... and yet wants his own midlevel profession elevated to equality with physicians.

By the way, all you need to know about his motivations, you can gather directly from the screen name that he chose for himself

 

[anon-y-mouse]

All in good fun Northerner.

I have to admit fault on my part...I guess I misunderstood the points on this. I didn't realize people were talking about PhDs refering to eachother as doctor in a clinical settiing. I thought people were arguing that only MD/DO's ever should be refered to as Dr...my mistake. maybe now you can understand why I got into this discussion. Especially since I can't imagine a situation in which a micro prof. would be in a hospital other than to be a patient (speaking as a current micro grad student).

This can be a rhetorical question, but what would a PhD who does work in a hospital, possibly in the lab or something, be called though? It seems maybe every "DR" who wears a white coat should have their degree with their name and not just "Dr. John Doe," as well as on their name tags...since the legitimate concern here is not to confuse patients.

Okay, I've kinda gotten obsessed with this thread, and although I think a discussion involving other professions should have many viewpoints, I don't want to be troll (if it's not too late) and I'll really try to get away from your guys' forum...sorry!

I think the common term "foot doctor" is pretty much synonymous with podiatrist... if you had a major foot problem and needed to seek attention for it, you'd probably go to "the foot doctor" as opposed to your family physician. It's pretty clear to me that the general public doesn't "assume" MD when people say "foot doctor"... hell, the general public probably thinks a radiologist is useless at basic medicine / prescribing, etc. I think podiatrists know what their role is and the limits of their domain... which is quite extensive! Performing surgery on feet? What PT would do that? Prescribing powers? Podiatrists have that (I think), but PT's? I feel like podiatrists know a lot about the foot, and I would have no hesitation to make a referral to a podiatrist as needed.

I think part of it is that there is little overlap between podiatry and the conventional specialties of medicine, except maybe ortho / pm&r... and I bet those ortho folks would much rather be fixing knees and spines for the big bucks. However, with anesthesia, ophthalmology (OD's wish to do more procedures, prescribe medications, etc.), "radiology assistants", NP's/PA's who think they know as much as MD's do, we have overlap and people have a temptation to overstep their boundaries...

I recently attended a conference and spoke to a middle-aged cardiologist and asked him about PA/NP, and he said he loved them because they helped him bring in more money, and at the time, they were basically no threat to his career... well, what about when current student doctors are in practice?? "Dr Nurse"?? The doctor title is part of it - wasn't there recent legislation *allowing* for nurses to be called "attending physician" under some contexts? Anyway, if stuff like this keeps going through, that's pretty ridiculous. The time is *now* to protect and delineate the boundaries of our profession, colleagues...

 

[juleswinfield]

Arguing on the internet is like running a race in the Special Olympics...


Even if you win, you're still ******ed.

 

[MartianOddity]

Arguing on the internet is like running a race in the Special Olympics...


Even if you win, you're still ******ed.

We prefer to call it "developmentally delayed".