What do you hate most about the pre-med process?

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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Princeton Medical Student

Princeton Medical Student

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End of semester ranting go!
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I really dislike the physics requirement. I think it's a total waste, especially Physics 1 which is all mechanics. I could possibly understand the applicability of Physics 2 (fluid, electricity, etc.) but still, it's such a small level of applicability. Everything else, I can understand...even though orgo isn't fun, I can at least see how it connects to medicine. Physics? Don't get it at all.
 
It's all a game to be played. For all the talk about holistic review and seeing through box-checkers, going through the process myself (and seeing many close friends too) has left me as cynical as ever. I truly believe the majority of premeds in labs, in hospital volunteer positions, in pre-med clubs, etc are not there out of a genuine interest or enjoyment of those things. They are there to check boxes, and they'll probably embellish a lot about those things in their application, and it works.
 
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efle said:
It's all a game to be played. For all the talk about holistic review and seeing through box-checkers, going through the process myself (and seeing many close friends too) has left me as cynical as ever. I truly believe the majority of premeds in labs, in hospital volunteer positions, in pre-med clubs, etc are not there out of a genuine interest or enjoyment of those things. They are there to check boxes, and they'll probably embellish a lot about those things in their application, and it works.
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I agree with this. I also think the level of competitiveness is terrible, and really unhealthy overall for all of us students. I mean, to be considered competitive for MD, it is generally recommended to aim for at least a 510 on the MCAT, just to be considered. However, that's 84th percentile...it's insane that you have to score that high just to be considered for admission. No other graduate school operates in this fashion.
 
I hate how expensive the pre-med process is. By the time you have completed the MCAT, primary applications, secondary applications, and interviews, you will have shelled out thousands of dollars just for the possibility of getting into med school.
 
Dealing with other premeds during the first two years of prereq classes. I found that once you get in to major classes (and the majority of premeds are weeded out), people tended to chill out. But lord help me those gunners in gen chem and intro bio holy hell
 
I think all of the interviews are kind of pointless. There is nothing they learned about me that they couldn't have learned through essays and CASPER or a similar test (which I had to do anyway...). Getting a tour, asking questions, meeting students, etc was nice, but could have been accomplished just as easily at a second look day.
 
efle said:
Gotta screen out them weirdos though. Someone might seem totally normal on paper and then be inappropriate or awkward or just off when you spend a while chatting with them in person
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This. I am familiar with other professional programs who do not interview, and have seen some of the students that are in them. Some students are scarily lacking in basic social skills. Especially considering the nature of their work, which requires just as much if not more patient rapport than medicine.
 
fldoctorgirl said:
I agree with this. I also think the level of competitiveness is terrible, and really unhealthy overall for all of us students. I mean, to be considered competitive for MD, it is generally recommended to aim for at least a 510 on the MCAT, just to be considered. However, that's 84th percentile...it's insane that you have to score that high just to be considered for admission. No other graduate school operates in this fashion.
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This
Having to be so, so above average to even be moderately competitive for med school makes me so upset.
Pre meds get a lot of **** for being nuerotic, both on this website and in the real world but the thing is, you need to be somewhat nuerotic to maintain a 3.7+ gpa, a 510+ MCAT score, and do some resume building ( clinical experience, non clinical volunteering, shadowing, research, and something else interesting). In no other grad program is a 3.5 a weak gpa.
I literally cried yesterday because of stress.( Yes, really). But I can't talk to any non pre-med about b/c they'll just think I'm crazy.

Also, @efle does't everybody embelish their app to some degree?Did you enjoy every resume-building thing you did? I mean , yeah, totally faking it is an issue but everybody does do something they don't necessarily enjoy.
Edit: OP, I get the feeling you're at a grade-deflating school.That sucks. It must be really hard to do well there ( if that's the case).
 
Princeton Medical Student said:
Alright here goes my rant. GPA. Holy mother of God is GPA a piece of crap sometimes. It benefits those in easier majors, at low tier universities (or the high tiers that grade inflate), and discourages academics for the sake of academics. I really really hate it.
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Yup, this is one part of the game that really bothered me too. Premed friends that needed some certain kinds of credits wouldn't ask for recommendations on what humanities or social sciences classes I thought were best, they'd ask what was an easy A. Choosing to join a student body full of very smart hard working people, taking a challenging major, or even just getting out of your comfort zone and trying classes in a new area...all of that is making the game harder.
 
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efle said:
Yup, this is one part of the game that really bothered me too. Premed friends that needed some certain kinds of credits wouldn't ask for recommendations on what humanities or social sciences classes I thought were best, they'd ask what was an easy A. Choosing to join a student body full of very smart hard working people, taking a challenging major, or even just getting out of your comfort zone and trying classes in a new area...all of that is making the game harder.
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If you are a biology major you would be PUNISHED for taking a challenge of a computer science class outside your curriculum, and getting a B in it. This isn't unique to med school, but it seriously pisses me off.
 
Princeton Medical Student said:
If you are a biology major you would be PUNISHED for taking a challenge of a computer science class outside your curriculum, and getting a B in it. This isn't unique to med school, but it seriously pisses me off.
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I would love to add a chem eng. minor, so I can have a backup plan if I don't get into med school, but I know I'm way too stupid to maintain a high GPA for Chem Eng. classes.
Pre meds all literally discouraged from chasing interests for fear of not maintaining an insanely high GPA. So many bright, talented pre meds ( not saying that's necessarily me) wanna major in something engineering-based, but those classes aren't designed to also allow you to have the necessary GPA.
 
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mwsapphire said:
Also, @efle does't everybody embelish their app to some degree?
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Everybody should try to highlight the best parts of their activities/their roles. That's not the same as claiming 1.5-2x as many volunteer hours as you actually did, or doing mindless cell line maintenance in a lab for a grad student and then talking about it like you were planning the experiments.

mwsapphire said:
Did you enjoy every resume-building thing you did? ...everybody does do something they don't necessarily enjoy.
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I am guilty of playing the game myself in some ways, true.
 
Yup, what I hate the most is people outrageously embellishing their activities and get away with it. I personally am too bad at self-promotion to be on par with that level of dishonesty. I can't talk to people confidently when I KNOW I'm outright lying.

I will have to be down-to-earth honest. Always.
 
fldoctorgirl said:
I really dislike the physics requirement. I think it's a total waste, especially Physics 1 which is all mechanics. I could possibly understand the applicability of Physics 2 (fluid, electricity, etc.) but still, it's such a small level of applicability. Everything else, I can understand...even though orgo isn't fun, I can at least see how it connects to medicine. Physics? Don't get it at all.
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The physics and math should be thrown out completely, IMHO.
Bio and chem are directly related, but physics really hurts a lot of people and has nothing to do with med school. Same goes for calc. A lot of my classmates make A's and B's in all the med school pre reqs, but a C in a 4 credit calc class kills them. Calc has literally nothing to do with med school.
I think the physics/math requirement should be replaced with Upper level Bio , or Biochem ( for schools that require a year of physics but don't require Biochem, they should swap out and make Biochem a requirement instead of physics).
 
Certain activities like volunteering, community service, other stupid BS they expect us to do outside the classroom that pre-med students 15-20 years ago didn't need to do. Alsom how there are lower standards for some ethnic groups over others.
 
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Reading this threat makes me so glad I was a non-trad. I didn't know I wanted to be a doctor till the very end of college. Honestly, if I had known earlier and had the traditional pre-med experience, I don't think I would have gotten accepted to the top-5 school that I decided to attend.

Advice to everyone: take time off after college to become a more interesting human and gain some perspective. Nobody likes talking to pre-meds who only know how to talk about being a pre-med.
 
mwsapphire said:
The physics and math should be thrown out completely, IMHO.
Bio and chem are directly related, but physics really hurts a lot of people and has nothing to do with med school. Same goes for calc. A lot of my classmates make A's and B's in all the med school pre reqs, but a C in a 4 credit calc class kills them. Calc has literally nothing to do with med school.
I think the physics/math requirement should be replaced with Upper level Bio , or Biochem ( for schools that require a year of physics but don't require Biochem, they should swap out and make Biochem a requirement instead of physics).
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Uhm... orgo 2?
 
I hate the fact that people that are not pre-meds don't understand what you are having to do. Even your family looks at you like you are half off your rocker when you are pissed you got a 3.75 GPA because you missed a comma in an essay and could have had a 4.0 . I end up spending much of my time running and listening to music because I feel that few truly get it. That part SUCKS. Also the commitment it takes. It takes a lot of mental energy to get up everyday, be the top 10% in your class and still be a half decent person. lol
 
efle said:
It's all a game to be played. For all the talk about holistic review and seeing through box-checkers, going through the process myself (and seeing many close friends too) has left me as cynical as ever. I truly believe the majority of premeds in labs, in hospital volunteer positions, in pre-med clubs, etc are not there out of a genuine interest or enjoyment of those things. They are there to check boxes, and they'll probably embellish a lot about those things in their application, and it works.
Click to expand...

I was very active in a small club during my sophomore year, before I decided I wanted to apply etc.. There were only like 10 people and probably 70% of that had a leadership position in the club etc. since it was so small. My roommate and I were some of the only non e-board people who attended and we helped out a lot. At one point in the semester one position opened up so we both naturally applied, didn't care which one of us would get it and knew one of us would probably would since we showed up and there weren't many other people who would apply. Long story short, 3 people applied and neither of us got it. The 3rd person who applied was the BF of the secretary or something who never helped out and never showed up to a meeting. Literally only had the title to put on a resume and didn't help out at all. I then questioned them and said how can someone who never shows up or helps out get a position since it makes no sense. My roommate was bothered by that as well, so when we questioned instead of answering why they just kicked us out of the club haha. So now I cant say I was part of it on apps but still someone who didn't do anything had a leadership position just to pad a resume which I think is just plain stupid
 
fldoctorgirl said:
I agree with this. I also think the level of competitiveness is terrible, and really unhealthy overall for all of us students. I mean, to be considered competitive for MD, it is generally recommended to aim for at least a 510 on the MCAT, just to be considered. However, that's 84th percentile...it's insane that you have to score that high just to be considered for admission. No other graduate school operates in this fashion.
Click to expand...
No other graduate schools train people to save lives
 
phantomyinyang said:
Certain activities like volunteering, community service, other stupid BS they expect us to do outside the classroom that pre-med students 15-20 years ago didn't need to do. Also the huge emphasis on numbers and MCAT score (like getting a 513 vs. a 509 really means someone's going to be a better doctor...) and how there are lower standards for some ethnic groups over others.
Click to expand...


Are you calling volunteering and community service BS? Who cares what they did and didn't do 20 years ago.

These activities are not just box checking for most people. They are genuine ways of learning about the field, gaining broad experience working with people, self sacrificing, and showing that you are able to handle multiple things at the same time as a heavy course load (which will reflect on your ability to succeed in med school when you are being pulled in every which way).




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Physics and Calc aren't just there for you to learn content. A lot of premeds are good at Bio and Chem. How they fare in something outside their comfort zone is an indicator of how hard they're willing to work in an area that might be conceptually difficult.
Personally, I thought of Physics and Calc as "just another college box to check." Like English, writing, fine arts, and other classes that I wasn't particularly thrilled about.
 
DrHart said:
Physics and Calc aren't just there for you to learn content. A lot of premeds are good at Bio and Chem. How they fare in something outside their comfort zone is an indicator of how hard they're willing to work in an area that might be conceptually difficult.
Personally, I thought of Physics and Calc as "just another college box to check." Like English, writing, fine arts, and other classes that I wasn't particularly thrilled about.
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You forgot history. I hated history. It was what pulled me GPA down :smack:
 
It's not terrible to put up with, but I hate discussing the fact that I'm applying to medical school with people who are unaware about the process (especially family members). People will be like "Well why don't you just go to Michigan so you don't have to move?". Like, oh sure just let me snap my fingers and go to Michigan medical school!
 
DOCzilla15 said:
No other graduate schools train people to save lives
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Nursing school, PA school, PT/OT, Paramedic school directly teach medicine.

Law school graduates we can also argue save lives though in quite a different manner.

Engineering school teaches you to not make mistakes that could kill people.
 
femmegoblue said:
It's not terrible to put up with, but I hate discussing the fact that I'm applying to medical school with people who are unaware about the process (especially family members). People will be like "Well why don't you just go to Michigan so you don't have to move?". Like, oh sure just let me snap my fingers and go to Michigan medical school!
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I know right? I want to be in state as my parents are getting older, and well I want to be there for them. But there is no guarantee for that to happen. :/
 
DrHart said:
ugh I got out of that one haha. thank you AP credit
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I got a 3 on my Euro exam. Hello, college history class. (even though I already had 6 other history credits, apparently they didn't "fit" into my gen ads).
 
The fact that numbers are so important. Doubly stressful if you are applying MD/PhD where even non-"top tier" programs have 3.8/516 median scores and like 50% of the class taking 2 gap years to build research experience. It was a constant source of stress throughout college that took a lot of mental effort and energy to suppress. I never wanted to make decisions about what I studied or what professor I took because I was a pre-med. As a result, I ended up taking a lot of elective courses, challenging professors, and difficult classes that were not required for my major. I ended up OK stats-wise, but it really bothers me that you essentially have to make a choice between A) challenging yourself and moving out of your intellectual comfort zone (you know, what you're *supposed* to do during college?) but being a walking stressball at the end of every semester and B) min/maxing your med school application.

There were some points freshman year where the stress of maintaining a perfect GPA was so great, it literally prevented me from studying, sleeping, or enjoying myself whatsoever. Luckily, I had a fantastic English professor who took it upon himself to beat perfectionism out of his students and instill a little bit of perspective about what it means to be a good college student.

To be completely honest, thinking about the process from an abstract, structural perspective is very depressing. I look forward to applying to get it over with. I have no positive feelings about enjoying the process. I don't feel hopeful about the future of medicine or science, but I love being in the clinic, working with patients, and doing science. I don't feel like schools care about seriously reforming the process or improving it, and that they are happy with the way things are. I generally don't like pre-meds I've met IRL so I'm also not particularly confident I'll even like my classmates in medical school. Again, these are just feelings, I don't think they are necessarily valid.
 
Princeton Medical Student said:
Nursing school, PA school, PT/OT, Paramedic school directly teach medicine.

Law school graduates we can also argue save lives though in quite a different manner.

Engineering school teaches you to not make mistakes that could kill people.
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All the aforementioned in health care are overseen by who?
Also engineers don't need a graduate degree so there's no application the bottle neck occurs in undergrad...
 
Youngm2194 said:
I was very active in a small club during my sophomore year, before I decided I wanted to apply etc.. There were only like 10 people and probably 70% of that had a leadership position in the club etc. since it was so small. My roommate and I were some of the only non e-board people who attended and we helped out a lot. At one point in the semester one position opened up so we both naturally applied, didn't care which one of us would get it and knew one of us would probably would since we showed up and there weren't many other people who would apply. Long story short, 3 people applied and neither of us got it. The 3rd person who applied was the BF of the secretary or something who never helped out and never showed up to a meeting. Literally only had the title to put on a resume and didn't help out at all. I then questioned them and said how can someone who never shows up or helps out get a position since it makes no sense. My roommate was bothered by that as well, so when we questioned instead of answering why they just kicked us out of the club haha. So now I cant say I was part of it on apps but still someone who didn't do anything had a leadership position just to pad a resume which I think is just plain stupid
Click to expand...
Nepotism is and always will be the way of the world.
 
Working in retail and food service does all those things too (and is arguably much more humbling than hospital volunteering)
@phantomyinyang

I agree 100%. Plus you learn what it means to help people, even if they don't want you to. (that happens too much.)
 
miniman said:
Working in retail and food service does all those things too (and is arguably much more humbling than hospital volunteering)
@phantomyinyang

I agree 100%. Plus you learn what it means to help people, even if they don't want you to. (that happens too much.)
Click to expand...

Sure, I worked fast food when I was a teenager too. I learned how to make a burger and listen to people complain at me. That does not in any way equate to volunteering and community service being BS. You get paid in a job, not in volunteering.

Plus, volunteering in a hospital is NOT required. There are many other options when it comes to volunteering and if you don't feel like giving free labor to a hospital is justified, then go volunteer anywhere else. But volunteering in and of itself is not BS and can (and should be) way more beneficial to yourself that a retail job.
 
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