What do you think of pharmacists and physical therapist being called doctors?

[dara678]

Because, technically, they get a doctor of pharmacy or a doctor of physical therapy. The reason I ask is because a couple lecturers this year who were pharms/PTs called themselves doctors, a practice which I wasn't accustomed to (or maybe I'm not educated enough about medical hierarchy or something).

What do you guys think? AND is this a common practice?

Just curious, not trying to say anything about any of those degrees.

[I asked my clinical medicine prof and he said only physicians were called doctors ... but then again he's retired so things might have changed by now ...]

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[hakksar]

PhD's are called Doctor too. All the term Doctor means is that you have received a doctorate degree. Clinically, Doctor usually refers (at least in layperson speech) to a Physician. However, in academics (including medical school) anyone with a Doctorate degree should be referred to as Doctor unless advised otherwise

 

[thewebthsp]

Yeah but they're doctors of PHILOSOPHY -- much cooler than the puny Doctor of Medicine...
heh

I think white coats should go the way of the white wig-- we should just dress professionally and have an id

PhD's are called Doctor too. All the term Doctor means is that you have received a doctorate degree. Clinically, Doctor usually refers (at least in layperson speech) to a Physician. However, in academics (including medical school) anyone with a Doctorate degree should be referred to as Doctor unless advised otherwise

 

[Portier]

In professional circles, using the title Doctor for Doctorate level educated individuals is respectful.

Conversely, the average person who does not have a Bachelor's degree even...maybe didn't finish high shcool, does not understand the significant differences in "doctors."

I remember the first time I heard a professor was called, "Dr." My blue collar roots only knew of doctors as physicians..... This was odd.... It's also odd for me to remember calling Pharmacists by "Dr." I adjusted.

However, I don't remember any patients (espcially gray hairs) taking this up. They reserve the title Dr for male physicians....they called female doctors "The Lady Doctor" or some such diminutive term.

Which brings up the argument that PharmD's and DPT's are bucking for primary care roles (self referrals) and prescribing privileges....along with Chiro's.....

This strikes at the very base of medicine, and threatens to redefine the nature of medicine and the sanctity of the doctor-patient relationship.

 

[deuist]

"Doctor" means "teacher." Only in the United States is the word "doctor" meant as "physician." While I have no problem with calling a person with a doctorate's degree, "Dr. Smith," I do think that the trend of granting doctorates to professions that have traditionally not held doctorates (e.g., physical therapists) is a ploy to get more money with a flashier title. Honestly, what can a doctor of PT do that a masters cannot?

 

[virilep]

"Doctor" means "teacher." Only in the United States is the word "doctor" meant as "physician." While I have no problem with calling a person with a doctorate's degree, "Dr. Smith," I do think that the trend of granting doctorates to professions that have traditionally not held doctorates (e.g., physical therapists) is a ploy to get more money with a flashier title. Honestly, what can a doctor of PT do that a masters cannot?

same thing goes for registered pharmacists versus doctor of pharmacy degrees. they both do the same EXACT thing but one isn't called doctor.

I honestly don't care about titles. because sure they're called doctors but everyone knows what they do.

 

[Mumpu]

PhD's being called "doctor" has led to tremendous abuse by the quacks professing their healthcare products. The fine print, if present at all, admits they are PhD's in something non-medical.

The Dr issue with non-physicians is the same deal as long white coats worn by everyone from Lunch Lady Doris and the ECG tech to the chief of medicine. My school is actually moving towards color-coded scrubs because patients and staff are complaining.

 

[fun8stuff]

who decides which degrees can have the title "Dr."? I know my parents and grandparents (no college, blue collar) assume anyone w/ doctor title went to medical school-- i have been specifically asked questions about this in regards to chiropractic and pharmacy.. My friends mom actually asked me the other day how long it took to specialize in chiropractic after medical school, lol.... man was she surprised when i told her they dont attend medical school.

 

[THP]

who decides which degrees can have the title "Dr."? I know my parents and grandparents (no college, blue collar) assume anyone w/ doctor title went to medical school-- i have been specifically asked questions about this in regards to chiropractic and pharmacy.. My friends mom actually asked me the other day how long it took to specialize in chiropractic after medical school, lol.... man was she surprised when i told her they dont attend medical school.

Most chiropractors will tell you they DID attend medical school.

 

[hdu]

When I read the previous posts, I felt curious about the etymology of the word, because in other countries the Doctor title is not restricted to physicians, so I went to search engines ahd I looked for "doctor etymology" (etymology means the origen of words).
It is a summary of what I found:

Doctor: from latin Doctor: teacher, adviser, scholar, from Docere: "to teach"
Some words derived from Doctor: Doctrinaire, doctrine, document.

Original way of designating a Church Father; a "doctor" was a master of doctrine, somebody who knew religious "documents" well enough to teach "doctrine".
Later used by Universities for people who achieved the highest degrees in other subjects.

I found also this interesting comment:
" Somewhere along the line physicians decided they should all be doctors and slowly convinced everybody else of the same. Only a specialist would qualify under the classic meaning, so the "MD" degree was born - roughly equivalent to a Masters in any other field. It was a brilliant marketing ploy for their profession..."

I ask myself: What is the difference between a person who study Medicine 4 years and a person that study another subject? In some countries, when you study medicine and you graduate, you graduate as Physician. To be a MD, you have to do research, specialization, etc.

I am sorry if somebody feels offended, but I think that it requires a lot of EGO to be a medicine student and already want to limit the use of Doctor to physicians.

Note:
Have you heard this joke?

"A difference between God and a physician is that God do not believe He is a physician"

 

[medstyle]

Because, technically, they get a doctor of pharmacy or a doctor of physical therapy. The reason I ask is because a couple lecturers this year who were pharms/PTs called themselves doctors, a practice which I wasn't accustomed to (or maybe I'm not educated enough about medical hierarchy or something).

What do you guys think? AND is this a common practice?

Just curious, not trying to say anything about any of those degrees.

[I asked my clinical medicine prof and he said only physicians were called doctors ... but then again he's retired so things might have changed by now ...]

it's ridiculous. There is even a Dr.NP degree at Columbia. Nothing like putting on airs in front of patients who are too scared and unknowledgeable to know exactly who is treating them.

Now, if paralegals could posture as lawyers...

 

[dara678]

When I read the previous posts, I felt curious about the etymology of the word, because in other countries the Doctor title is not restricted to physicians, so I went to search engines ahd I looked for "doctor etymology" (etymology means the origen of words).
It is a summary of what I found:

Doctor: from latin Doctor: teacher, adviser, scholar, from Docere: "to teach"
Some words derived from Doctor: Doctrinaire, doctrine, document.

Original way of designating a Church Father; a "doctor" was a master of doctrine, somebody who knew religious "documents" well enough to teach "doctrine".
Later used by Universities for people who achieved the highest degrees in other subjects.

I found also this interesting comment:
" Somewhere along the line physicians decided they should all be doctors and slowly convinced everybody else of the same. Only a specialist would qualify under the classic meaning, so the "MD" degree was born - roughly equivalent to a Masters in any other field. It was a brilliant marketing ploy for their profession..."

I ask myself: What is the difference between a person who study Medicine 4 years and a person that study another subject? In some countries, when you study medicine and you graduate, you graduate as Physician. To be a MD, you have to do research, specialization, etc.

I am sorry if somebody feels offended, but I think that it requires a lot of EGO to be a medicine student and already want to limit the use of Doctor to physicians.

Note:
Have you heard this joke?

"A difference between God and a physician is that God do not believe He is a physician"

A lot of people argue that just because physicians study for only four years and because other fields have much more rigorous academic demands, that physicians shouldn't call themselves doctors with full authority. I guess that's what you're trying to say, in that we shouldn't be so egotistic. Yes, I agree with that part, but you forget that the medical degree involves a lot of training that is NOT academic, i.e. learning how to be an efficient communicator and compassionate caregiver, that is essential to the art of healing and that only physicians and nurses and PAs really learn and master. After you graduate, you face years and years more training that you need before you can actually BE anything near a full physician. So while we graduate with an MD degree, I think everyone who gets one eventually has the full authority to use it and shouldn't feel bad at all for being proud to have a doctor of medicine degree, and shouldn't feel that it's inferior to any others.

And back to the original topic --- so would you guys address pharmacists, doctors of physical therapy, etc. as doctors then (say in the hospital, on services)? I'd like to know for my own preparation for rotations haha ... I know that at least in the classroom setting I would ...

 

[medstyle]

A lot of people argue that just because physicians study for only four years and because other fields have much more rigorous academic demands, that physicians shouldn't call themselves doctors with full authority. I guess that's what you're trying to say, in that we shouldn't be so egotistic. Yes, I agree with that part, but you forget that the medical degree involves a lot of training that is NOT academic, i.e. learning how to be an efficient communicator and compassionate caregiver, that is essential to the art of healing and that only physicians and nurses and PAs really learn and master. After you graduate, you face years and years more training that you need before you can actually BE anything near a full physician. So while we graduate with an MD degree, I think everyone who gets one eventually has the full authority to use it and shouldn't feel bad at all for being proud to have a doctor of medicine degree, and shouldn't feel that it's inferior to any others.

And back to the original topic --- so would you guys address pharmacists, doctors of physical therapy, etc. as doctors then (say in the hospital, on services)? I'd like to know for my own preparation for rotations haha ... I know that at least in the classroom setting I would ...

no way on the floor.

 

[Fantasy Sports]

This is why we need color coded scrubs based on your position in the hospital. If you work in an office or something, then your ID badge should clearly be that color.

No semantics or vagueness.

Blue (or whatever color) = MD
Light Blue = Med student

Red = Nurse
Green= Pharmacist

etc.

And also, there should be some law where when you state you are a Dr. in an advertisement or something, that you have to put your degree after your name so as not to cause confusion.

I really hope one top medical school/hospital starts such a color coded system, because I think it will catch on. I think it will make things a lot easier for everyone.

 

[bigdan]

Interesting topic.

It is a hot issue in rehab circles in regards to Physical Therapists with the DPT degree. I, personally, have no issue with the "doctor" term, because it is an earned title much like the MD is. What will be interesting is the practical ramifications that we'll see. PTs have "direct access" in many states (I think 38 or so?) which would allow the general public to seek Physical Therapy without seeing a physician first. If Medicare jumps on board, I believe you'll see it everywhere. So you'll have PTs that are doctors, with six years of training behind them. They will, however, get the same or similar pay at many locations, because reimbursement doesn't go up in accordance with degree earned. So at my hospital, the brand new DPT will get ~45K/yr just like the brand new MSPT. That may keep some from pursuit of a DPT, but the PT professional body is pushing the DPT hardcore.

I'm interested to see how things play out, because there is A LOT of discrepancy of opinion within the profession of PT...

dc

 

[Portier]

Most chiropractors will tell you they DID attend medical school.

This is a good point.

And from what I know of Chiropractors that have made it to DO school, they're quite well trained in anatomy and manipulation....just not pharacology, therapeutics, etc.

However, according to the narrow perview of the public, if you can't admit to hospitals and write prescriptions (neither are universal privileges for chiros...yet) then you aren't a "doctor."

 

[Portier]

When I read the previous posts, I felt curious about the etymology of the word, because in other countries the Doctor title is not restricted to physicians, so I went to search engines ahd I looked for "doctor etymology" (etymology means the origen of words).
It is a summary of what I found:

Doctor: from latin Doctor: teacher, adviser, scholar, from Docere: "to teach"
Some words derived from Doctor: Doctrinaire, doctrine, document.

Original way of designating a Church Father; a "doctor" was a master of doctrine, somebody who knew religious "documents" well enough to teach "doctrine".
Later used by Universities for people who achieved the highest degrees in other subjects.

I found also this interesting comment:
" Somewhere along the line physicians decided they should all be doctors and slowly convinced everybody else of the same. Only a specialist would qualify under the classic meaning, so the "MD" degree was born - roughly equivalent to a Masters in any other field. It was a brilliant marketing ploy for their profession..."

I ask myself: What is the difference between a person who study Medicine 4 years and a person that study another subject? In some countries, when you study medicine and you graduate, you graduate as Physician. To be a MD, you have to do research, specialization, etc.

I am sorry if somebody feels offended, but I think that it requires a lot of EGO to be a medicine student and already want to limit the use of Doctor to physicians.

Note:
Have you heard this joke?

"A difference between God and a physician is that God do not believe He is a physician"

You missed the boat on this one....and I'm guessing it's because you're a non-physician.

What this thread is about (once you distill away some effluvium) is the misapplication of a title that (regardless of historical derivation) is known to the public as the title of their health care provider.

It's confusing and misleading to people in compromising positions to have someone who is to their knowledge a pharmacist, nurse, or allied health professional come into their room and say, "I'm Dr. Jane Doe/John Doe" and not qualify the statement with what theire degree is actually in. It's easier to walk in and say, "I'm Ray, your dietician." As opposed to, "I'm Ray, your Doctor of Dietetical Sciences." The patient would invariably respond, "Are you a doctor or a dietician?" After 10 minutes of intense conversation, you'd end up with, "Oh, you're a dietician, not a doctor."

My grandparents didn't even speak English most of the time (Cajun French was their chosen language) and they understood doctor to mean "healer...head of my health care." Not, "filler of my prescriptions"...that to them was "Peter Wolfe." Not, "physical therapist"...to them, that was some other person they knew.

The same is true for many people today...especially those marginalized citizens with inconsistent access to health care. They lack the sophistication to differentiate between a Medical Doctor/Doctor of Osteopathy, Doctor of Chiropractic, Pharmaceutical Doctor, Doctor of Physical Therapy, etc.

So, in the broader sense, "Yes, we are all doctors."

However, to 70-80% of America, only those who admit and prescribe are their "doctors." The rest are well respected, and needed...but known by their function. "The Nurse." "The Physical Therapist." "The Chiropractor." "The Dentist." "The Foot Doctor."

Maybe eventually our collective sophistication will become such that average Americans will understand the title "doctor" as "teacher." However, it's false advertising to the current group of patients.

And if you think Medial Students have big egos, try becomming one...

How can you tell who your attending is? S/He's the one who makes you go home crying every night.

 

[deuist]

This is why we need color coded scrubs based on your position in the hospital. If you work in an office or something, then your ID badge should clearly be that color.

No semantics or vagueness.

Blue (or whatever color) = MD
Light Blue = Med student

Red = Nurse
Green= Pharmacist

etc.

And also, there should be some law where when you state you are a Dr. in an advertisement or something, that you have to put your degree after your name so as not to cause confusion.

I really hope one top medical school/hospital starts such a color coded system, because I think it will catch on. I think it will make things a lot easier for everyone.

The University of Florida actually uses color codes to distinguish between the different majors. Blue=dental, red=physical therapy

 

[Mumpu]

Fantasy, University of Colorado is moving in that direction.

I think med students should wear "inmate bright orange" scrubs.

 

[hakksar]

Fantasy, University of Colorado is moving in that direction.

I think med students should wear "inmate bright orange" scrubs.

Where did you hear that? I have not heard anything about making scrubs uniform. Maybe I am just out of the loop.

 

[Mumpu]

The nurses on medicine floors at Anschutz are in dark blue uniform scrubs. Not too thrilled about it either. As I understand, the administration got tired of patients complaining that they didn't know who was who.

 

[fun8stuff]

You missed the boat on this one....and I'm guessing it's because you're a non-physician.

What this thread is about (once you distill away some effluvium) is the misapplication of a title that (regardless of historical derivation) is known to the public as the title of their health care provider.

It's confusing and misleading to people in compromising positions to have someone who is to their knowledge a pharmacist, nurse, or allied health professional come into their room and say, "I'm Dr. Jane Doe/John Doe" and not qualify the statement with what theire degree is actually in. It's easier to walk in and say, "I'm Ray, your dietician." As opposed to, "I'm Ray, your Doctor of Dietetical Sciences." The patient would invariably respond, "Are you a doctor or a dietician?" After 10 minutes of intense conversation, you'd end up with, "Oh, you're a dietician, not a doctor."

My grandparents didn't even speak English most of the time (Cajun French was their chosen language) and they understood doctor to mean "healer...head of my health care." Not, "filler of my prescriptions"...that to them was "Peter Wolfe." Not, "physical therapist"...to them, that was some other person they knew.

The same is true for many people today...especially those marginalized citizens with inconsistent access to health care. They lack the sophistication to differentiate between a Medical Doctor/Doctor of Osteopathy, Doctor of Chiropractic, Pharmaceutical Doctor, Doctor of Physical Therapy, etc.

So, in the broader sense, "Yes, we are all doctors."

However, to 70-80% of America, only those who admit and prescribe are their "doctors." The rest are well respected, and needed...but known by their function. "The Nurse." "The Physical Therapist." "The Chiropractor." "The Dentist." "The Foot Doctor."

Maybe eventually our collective sophistication will become such that average Americans will understand the title "doctor" as "teacher." However, it's false advertising to the current group of patients.

And if you think Medial Students have big egos, try becomming one...

How can you tell who your attending is? S/He's the one who makes you go home crying every night.

Exactly... it doesn't really matter where the word came from. It matters what the word actually means today. In America, most people assume "doctor" refers to a medical doctor (at least in my area of the country). It's ashame that non-physicians are trying to pretend like they are a type of medical doctor... believe me, it is the full intention.

 

[hakksar]

I don't think that non-physicians are trying to be considered physicians (are we really that insecure or arrogant to think that everyone wants to be considered a physician). I think it is a matter of respect in an academic setting (and really in society) to acknowledge someone's doctorate degree with the term doctor in front of their name. We all called our PhD professors Dr. So and So throughout undergrad and I don't recall anyone being concerned that their prof's were trying to be physicians. I doubt the DPT's and Pharm D's that the Op was discussing ask their patients to call them Doctor . . . I think it was more that since this was a Physical Exam/Clinical Skills class that the Prof's wanted to be acknowledged for their doctorate degree (since these classes are taught outside the presence of patients). Has anyone really seen any DPT or Pharm D in the hospital try to convince a patient they are a physician? I know I have never seen it in medical school, in my pre-med shadowing, in my EMS experience, or when visiting my fiance's hospital. Relax, people with doctorate degrees should be called doctor in professional company (unless advised otherwise) since those people have earned those degrees just as we earn our MD's, however everyone will be fine if they refer to DPT's are a Physical Therapist and Pharm D's as Pharmacists in front of patient's and I doubt any DPT's or Pharm D's will mind.

 

[hakksar]

The nurses on medicine floors at Anschutz are in dark blue uniform scrubs. Not too thrilled about it either. As I understand, the administration got tired of patients complaining that they didn't know who was who.

Ah, I see, over at 9th and Colorado there is no such dress code although one might think there is one since all the ICU nurses seem to wear green and all the standard floor nurses seem to wear blue. I think it is sort of a bad choice to put nurses in Dark Blue since that is the color all the nursing schools (CU, UNC, Regis etc) make their students wear. It could lead to confusion between students and nurses as well as be perceived as a put down by an insecure nurse.

 

[SuitsYou]

It could lead to confusion between students and nurses as well as be perceived as a put down by an insecure nurse.

You mean there are secure nurses out there /jk

Me: Lovely morning today
Nurse: I could of gone to medical school you know

 

[Pyroclast]

A lot of people argue that just because physicians study for only four years and because other fields have much more rigorous academic demands, that physicians shouldn't call themselves doctors with full authority. I guess that's what you're trying to say, in that we shouldn't be so egotistic. Yes, I agree with that part, but you forget that the medical degree involves a lot of training that is NOT academic, i.e. learning how to be an efficient communicator and compassionate caregiver, that is essential to the art of healing and that only physicians and nurses and PAs really learn and master. After you graduate, you face years and years more training that you need before you can actually BE anything near a full physician. So while we graduate with an MD degree, I think everyone who gets one eventually has the full authority to use it and shouldn't feel bad at all for being proud to have a doctor of medicine degree, and shouldn't feel that it's inferior to any others.

I know a lot of people get a PhD after only 3 years of study after undergrad (plus doing a dissertation). I think physicians used to get the equivalent of a Master's degree, but eventually med students had to learn so much information it grew into the academic equivalent of a PhD.

I personally have no problem with anyone who worked their butt off to get a PhD calling themselves "Dr. So-and-so." What I find strange is the Juris Doctor degree lawyers get. It's the academic equivalent of a Bachelor's, and until a few decades ago was called a Bachelor of Laws, but apparently the ABA felt that didn't confer enough respect, so they inserted Doctor into the title. At least almost no lawyers refer to themselves as "Doctor." Especially since they can choose to get a Master of Law, then a Doctor of Juridicial Science degree and earn their doctorate the honest way. I'm not saying law school is easy, and lawyers are certainly professionals, but, I dunno, that just bugs me.

 

[fun8stuff]

I don't think that non-physicians are trying to be considered physicians (are we really that insecure or arrogant to think that everyone wants to be considered a physician). I think it is a matter of respect in an academic setting (and really in society) to acknowledge someone's doctorate degree with the term doctor in front of their name. We all called our PhD professors Dr. So and So throughout undergrad and I don't recall anyone being concerned that their prof's were trying to be physicians. I doubt the DPT's and Pharm D's that the Op was discussing ask their patients to call them Doctor . . . I think it was more that since this was a Physical Exam/Clinical Skills class that the Prof's wanted to be acknowledged for their doctorate degree (since these classes are taught outside the presence of patients). Has anyone really seen any DPT or Pharm D in the hospital try to convince a patient they are a physician? I know I have never seen it in medical school, in my pre-med shadowing, in my EMS experience, or when visiting my fiance's hospital. Relax, people with doctorate degrees should be called doctor in professional company (unless advised otherwise) since those people have earned those degrees just as we earn our MD's, however everyone will be fine if they refer to DPT's are a Physical Therapist and Pharm D's as Pharmacists in front of patient's and I doubt any DPT's or Pharm D's will mind.

yeah, i kind of doubt most pharmacists and professors would ever want anyone to think they went to medical school and agree that is about being distingiushed for the academic accomplishments. With that said, I have heard 2 chiropractors give the impression that they went to medical school. One even said to me and a group of people at a party that, "...during medical school, blah blah". WHen i called him on it, he simply said he "didnt mean medical school in the tradiational sense, but chiropractic medical school". lol.. . so i dunno. i had many PhD's tell me that they thought that no one else should be called doctor unless they complete research and a thesis...

 

[greets fr. nyc]

agree with above posters.

let them be called what they want to be called. what difference does it make?

hey if there's a guy crashing on the floor, and the paramedic can intubate faster than the resident, who cares? well, maybe we can have the chiropractor do something too.

expertise is expertise is expertise.
heh heh.

 

[medstyle]

i think most "health professionals" carry a chip on their shoulder when it comes to docs...especially male ones.

Just a "truism". I dont need some murse giving me career advice either....

 

[JudoKing01]

I know a lot of people get a PhD after only 3 years of study after undergrad (plus doing a dissertation). I think physicians used to get the equivalent of a Master's degree, but eventually med students had to learn so much information it grew into the academic equivalent of a PhD.

I personally have no problem with anyone who worked their butt off to get a PhD calling themselves "Dr. So-and-so." What I find strange is the Juris Doctor degree lawyers get. It's the academic equivalent of a Bachelor's, and until a few decades ago was called a Bachelor of Laws, but apparently the ABA felt that didn't confer enough respect, so they inserted Doctor into the title. At least almost no lawyers refer to themselves as "Doctor." Especially since they can choose to get a Master of Law, then a Doctor of Juridicial Science degree and earn their doctorate the honest way. I'm not saying law school is easy, and lawyers are certainly professionals, but, I dunno, that just bugs me.

I didn't know that the Juris Doctor was considered a bachelors...especially since you have to have a bachelor's degree to attend law school, which is 3 (or 4 if you go at night/part time) years of study after undergrad. I wasn't aware that it was officially called that, if it was that's interesting. But I definately wouldn't consider a law degree the equivalent of a bachelor's.

 

[greets fr. nyc]

i think most "health professionals" carry a chip on their shoulder when it comes to docs...especially male ones.

maybe, the "chip" comes from all the abuse we, or our brethen have heaped on them...

hmm... as we all have, i've seen some pretty mean-spirited, arrogant attendings and residents.... wait... come to think of it, i've seen some rabid surgical nurses, ER nurses, IV techs too! hey! everyone has a beef to grill.

 

[ocean11]

i think most "health professionals" carry a chip on their shoulder when it comes to docs...especially male ones.

Just a "truism". I dont need some murse giving me career advice either....

I totally agree with you, pre-med school (last year) I was working with chiropractic students. When I got in to med school, some of them totally gave me a cold sholder and said "Oh so you're gonna be one of those.... are you going to hate us too?" ofcourse some were awsome and were so happy for me!!

BUt yeah... I had some friends in other health care professions who stopped talking to me and were obviously jelous when I got in.... so in conclusion NOT all other health care professionals are jelous or carry a chip on their shoulder, BUT MANY DO!!!! and that is an absolute TRUISM!

 

[Happy613]

You mean there are secure nurses out there /jk

Me: Lovely morning today
Nurse: I could of gone to medical school you know

Thats really funny..

 

[Portier]

You mean there are secure nurses out there /jk

Me: Lovely morning today
Nurse: I could of gone to medical school you know

I hate to try to one up you, but the other night as I was studying in our commons, the janitor struck up conversation. As I was packing up my computer and books, he tried to commiserate with me about how he used to stress out when he had an exam coming up.

At that point, I wondered, "Exactly what are the educational requirements to be a janitor at DMU? Damn...will that be me if I don't pass boards??"

No matter what level of academic excellence you acquire, there will always be someone begruding your success or besmirching your right to be where you are. Hell, I had other E-3's whinig tht I made E-4...and they were both floor mopper job levels where we were.

I guess the thing is that everyone wants to feel valuable, respected, and intelligent. When some young buck shows up and outdoes them, they have to question their own worth...enter problems.

If you want a good read, buy "The Devil's Dictionary" by Ambrose Bierce. It's not satanism, but more a satirical dictionary that defines words in funny ways:

Outdo: To make an enemy for life.

Birth: The first and direst of all disaters.

Marriage: The state or condition of a community consisting of a master, a mistress, and two slaves, making in all, two.

Back: That part of your friend which you are free to contemplate in your adversity.

 

[j8131]

I didn't know that the Juris Doctor was considered a bachelors...especially since you have to have a bachelor's degree to attend law school, which is 3 (or 4 if you go at night/part time) years of study after undergrad. I wasn't aware that it was officially called that, if it was that's interesting. But I definately wouldn't consider a law degree the equivalent of a bachelor's.

In many countries, an MD is a bachelors. There's nothing about the MD that makes it more of a doctorate than a JD. Functionally, they're equivalent--postgraduate degrees that train you for a profession but require no substantive research in the sense of a PhD.

A JD did used to be called an LLB.

 

[Furrball2]

I know a lot of people get a PhD after only 3 years of study after undergrad (plus doing a dissertation). I think physicians used to get the .

A PhD is normally around five years of studying. Roughly a year or two of classroom while also working on research and then another two to four years of self-directed research with a dissertation at the end.

IMHO, I've felt that the MD is roughly equivalent to the PhD after we complete residency training. So that a medical fellow is the rough academic equal to a post-doctoral fellow. Essentiall residency is our grad school and medical school is a second under graduate degree. In fact our admin calls medical school an undergraduate medical degree.

 

[hans19]

This is why we need color coded scrubs based on your position in the hospital. If you work in an office or something, then your ID badge should clearly be that color.

No semantics or vagueness.

Blue (or whatever color) = MD
Light Blue = Med student

Red = Nurse
Green= Pharmacist

etc.

And also, there should be some law where when you state you are a Dr. in an advertisement or something, that you have to put your degree after your name so as not to cause confusion.

I really hope one top medical school/hospital starts such a color coded system, because I think it will catch on. I think it will make things a lot easier for everyone.

Awesome! Then it will be just like Aldous Huxley's Brave New World! Doctors are the Alphas, the patients are the epsilons. Dr. NPs will be the Betas, etc. I can't wait for the Feelies to come out!

 

[Fantasy Sports]

Awesome! Then it will be just like Aldous Huxley's Brave New World! Doctors are the Alphas, the patients are the epsilons. Dr. NPs will be the Betas, etc. I can't wait for the Feelies to come out!

Actually, if anything, its more like Star Trek (or even a bit like our military) where each division is color coded and the rank is on their collar.

And aside from your complete lack of rational response, the only shame in being another color is that you are identified as your true position rather than trying to mislead patients about what your degree is.

Because you are going to feel damn stupid if you're new to a place (like every intern is for a while) and you end up grabbing a lab tech in his long coat (which he decided to put his name on) in an emergency, bypassing the shorter coat med student.

Of course, if your ego prevents you from being honest with everyone about your true degree, then this is a troublesome suggestion I make. Who am I to think that health care professionals should be easily identifiable based on their training and degree. What a crazy idea.

 

[deuist]

I don't think that non-physicians are trying to be considered physicians

Actually, they are. Celebs such as Dr. Phil try to pass themselves off as physicians. Whenever people ask him where he went to medical school, he ducks the question.

 

[Pyroclast]

I didn't know that the Juris Doctor was considered a bachelors...especially since you have to have a bachelor's degree to attend law school, which is 3 (or 4 if you go at night/part time) years of study after undergrad. I wasn't aware that it was officially called that, if it was that's interesting. But I definately wouldn't consider a law degree the equivalent of a bachelor's.

The rationale I read was that while you have to have a bachelor's degree to attend law school, your education does not build upon your undergraduate studies, which is why you can major in anything previous to law school. So the requirement for a bachelor's degree is more of a technicality, compared with medical school or academic grad school, where there are definite prerequisites. I'm not saying I'm an expert, I was surprised when I read that also. But if the degree used to be called a bachelor's, and is still followed by a master's and a doctorate...

 

[Pyroclast]

A PhD is normally around five years of studying. Roughly a year or two of classroom while also working on research and then another two to four years of self-directed research with a dissertation at the end.

IMHO, I've felt that the MD is roughly equivalent to the PhD after we complete residency training. So that a medical fellow is the rough academic equal to a post-doctoral fellow. Essentiall residency is our grad school and medical school is a second under graduate degree. In fact our admin calls medical school an undergraduate medical degree.

Makes sense to me. My sister took three years of classroom work, plus about eight years for her dissertation in philosophy, but a classmate of hers did it in four years total. I would consider residency an integral part of the medical education. If I complete my MD and fail to do a residency, I don't think I'd call myself "Doctor" even if I do have the academic degree. Actually, I'd probably try to hide it as much as possible so I wouldn't have to explain why I'm not licensed, come to think of it. Dang, I wish I hadn't even thought about that. Here comes the stress again...

 

[dara678]

A PhD is normally around five years of studying. Roughly a year or two of classroom while also working on research and then another two to four years of self-directed research with a dissertation at the end.

IMHO, I've felt that the MD is roughly equivalent to the PhD after we complete residency training. So that a medical fellow is the rough academic equal to a post-doctoral fellow. Essentiall residency is our grad school and medical school is a second under graduate degree. In fact our admin calls medical school an undergraduate medical degree.

totally agree.

i don't understand why people really like to diss on the MD degree and say it's not worth anything. even in med school itself there's a TON of work (much more than undergrad). plus many residencies and most fellowships require research.

so, to truly be a doctor, you need at the very least 7 years of postgraduate training (any many people go for much much longer, i.e. with research, residency, and fellowship). Ph.d.'s are done when they're done with the dissertation. how does an MD not compare to a Ph.D.?