dantt

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Does a gunner just get high grades? Is ultra competitive? Selfish? Brown noser? Is it wrong to be a gunner or are the people who aren't them just jealous?

Discuss :)
 

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The best definition is one who strives to beat the curve by making others do worse. The most common usage is for one who is doing better than the speaker.
 

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It wouldn't suprise me if the word "gunner" one day becomes the most googled word on the internet.
 
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One whose pretentious ambitions result in a relentless pursuit of perfection and prestige, no matter the cost in popularity, personality, and above all else, integrity.
 

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Dr Durden said:
One whose pretentious ambitions result in a relentless pursuit of perfection and prestige, no matter the cost in popularity, personality, and above all else, integrity.
ESPECIALLY Integrity...
 

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I never heard of this Gunner thing in College/ Why? Party, cram 2-3 days before tests, etc.
So, in Med School I attended classes, asked questions, and studied daily.
I raised my hand and asked questions.
I helped my fellow students when asked, but I was at class, raised hand frequently, and yes; top grades.
I was nicknamed, "UZI"
I thought it was hilarious, because Friday night, I was in Lincoln Park, or Chicago at all the clubs with my non-Med School friends (Law, Stock-traders, business, etc)
Now, I disagree with the
e_phn said:
"A gunner will compromise his or her peer relationships in order to obtain recognition and praise from his or her instructors and superiors".
And there was not integrity issue, ....well except some of the things that went on at the bars and clubs,......

On the other hand, I was NOT a Gunner during 3rd or 4th year. I guess that would NOT be a good place to have the rep. Because then instructors and superiors do play a role.


Dr Durden said:
One whose pretentious ambitions result in a relentless pursuit of perfection and prestige, no matter the cost in popularity, personality, and above all else, integrity.
 
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dantt

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What's wrong with being ambitious or exceeding minimum requirements? If adcom were to ask if you were ambitious, wouldn't you say so? If they were to ask if you would exceed minimum requirements, I'd hope you do so.
 

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dantt said:
What's wrong with being ambitious or exceeding minimum requirements? If adcom were to ask if you were ambitious, wouldn't you say so? If they were to ask if you would exceed minimum requirements, I'd hope you do so.
It's not the being ambitious part that annoys people, it's the length some people go to achieve those ambitions.

I personally have a negative view of the word "gunner" but it probably differs for everyone... To me Gunner= Weasel. But a gunner to some might not be a gunner to me.
 

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gunners are NOT fun to have on your clinical rotation :)
 

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dantt

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I do know one example . . . there was a guy who got into HMS at my school. He wore a stethoscope to the awards ceremony. :rolleyes:
 

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dantt said:
I do know one example . . . there was a guy who got into HMS at my school. He wore a stethoscope to the awards ceremony. :rolleyes:
A real gunner would not be at the awards ceremony... he'd be back in his room studying.

The end of the school year, you say?? He's back in his dorm room studying Netter and getting ready for med school classes that don't even start for three more months!

And you know what, he's happy!

:)
 

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Dr Durden said:
One whose pretentious ambitions result in a relentless pursuit of perfection and prestige, no matter the cost in popularity, personality, and above all else, integrity.

This is a great definition. I really don't like or associate with this type of person.
 

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dantt said:
I do know one example . . . there was a guy who got into HMS at my school. He wore a stethoscope to the awards ceremony. :rolleyes:
Seriously... he has some insecurity issues. I would have thrown something at him (or maybe heckled him when he got up).
 

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I can't really say what a gunner is because I haven't been in med school yet and it seems to me like its a med school thing. But as far as I can tell, it's just a word invented for the people who do better than others in class who have traded in social interaction with other med students for As. I have no problem with that as different people have different personalities, goals, and ambitions but I can't stand people who will not help their peers on an exam because the curve might not get to be as high because the one in need scored higher.
 
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dantt

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Dr.D-man said:
Seriously... he has some insecurity issues. I would have thrown something at him (or maybe heckled him when he got up).
Yeah, I felt like slapping him.
 

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The very ambitious person might be called an over acheiver (which most pre-meds are), but, in my book-o'slang, a gunner is an overacheiver who spends all of his or her time spent away from the books boasting about him or herself, and putting everyone else down. I definitely encountered a number of such "gunners" as a pre-med. Luckily, I find it funny more than anything else.




Hednej said:
I can't really say what a gunner is because I haven't been in med school yet and it seems to me like its a med school thing. But as far as I can tell, it's just a word invented for the people who do better than others in class who have traded in social interaction with other med students for As. I have no problem with that as different people have different personalities, goals, and ambitions but I can't stand people who will not help their peers on an exam because the curve might not get to be as high because the one in need scored higher.
 

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I see gunners as the people who are so caught up in academic performance that they have long lost any sense of value for or inherent interest in learning. Their stellar academic performance is powered not by a love for the material but because they are obsessed with and possesed by an overwhelming compulsion to acheive. This includes but is not exclusive to the gunners who resort to cheating, stealing people's notes, "helping" classmates with wrong answers and so forth. Traditionally, these people will do anything for The Grade and will "gun down" anything in its path, but the term has come to represent a whole class of individuals whose academic persuits are misguided and annoying to everyone around them.
 

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Dr Durden said:
One whose pretentious ambitions result in a relentless pursuit of perfection and prestige, no matter the cost in popularity, personality, and above all else, integrity.
I don't necesarily agree with this definition (except for the bolded part.)

If you think about it, just about every single one of us (and perhaps every pre-med) could be considered a gunner following that criteria.

Popularity: Missing a pep rally to study.

Personality: Hard to be gregarious when you spend all day...studying.

BUT Integrity: Cheating, lying, sabotage, flaunting etc....that's how I define a gunner.

The people who spend all day studying are probably going to be the best, most successful doctors of them all (I'm not condoning studying without having a personality though).

It's the people who spend more time bragging than studying that fit my criteria of a true gunner.

Depending on the way you define it, I think we all fall under the definition of a gunner at least a little bit.
-Dr. P.
 

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people have varying definitions for a "gunner." to some people, a gunner is harmless and just studies a lot, probably to the detriment of his relationships with friends and family. this type is just a hard worker that is too focused.

then there's the other definition of a gunner that i believe. this person is one who will sabotage or hurt others to get ahead. ex: if there's a book in the library that everyone needs for class, this person will hide it so that the rest of the class does not have access. another ex: a gunner will break the spirit of others around him so that he looks/performs relatively better.

shrugs. depends on how you want to look at it. now that i'm motivated towards medicine for sure and love it, i'll probably be considered a gunner by many because i want to/have to be the best.
 
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Law2Doc

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yourmom25 said:
people have varying definitions for a "gunner." to some people, a gunner is harmless and just studies a lot, probably to the detriment of his relationships with friends and family. this type is just a hard worker that is too focused.

then there's the other definition of a gunner that i believe. this person is one who will sabotage or hurt others to get ahead. ex: if there's a book in the library that everyone needs for class, this person will hide it so that the rest of the class does not have access. another ex: a gunner will break the spirit of others around him so that he looks/performs relatively better.

shrugs. depends on how you want to look at it. now that i'm motivated towards medicine for sure and love it, i'll probably be considered a gunner by many because i want to/have to be the best.
Gunner is often misused. It is not just someone who studies hard and does well -- the second sentence of the wikipedia definition is the more accurate. It is someone who will find a way to do well even at the expense of others. Someone who will send you a pizza at 2am before the test to wake you up. Someone who will loudly misstate things in hopes of confusing other people. Someone who freely shares resources with the class he knows are useless or inaccurate but would never share something useful -- yet is perfectly happy to use others' shared resources. Someone who will raise their hands and ask impossible questions to try and derail a competitors presentation, or jump in and correct a presenter's flawed answer in a way that makes the presenter look foolish, even if it requires spending time researching the other person's topic in order to do so. (most often seen in PBL and on rounds).
Gunnerism is not limited to med school mentality and they have the same thing in other professional schools. In law schools the gunners were the ones who got to the library first and ripped the applicable pages out of the books on reserve so that no one else but them could use the resource. (This actually happened). Hopefully your school will have few true gunners, and those you identify should be avoided wherever possible. Unless, of course, it's you. :rolleyes:
 

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A gunner is someone who, when asked for help in organic chemistry lab, will tell the the wrong reagent to add on purpose. They also ask questions they already know the answer to. It has nothing to do with ambition, it's simple self promotion.
 

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doctordutch said:
A gunner is someone who, when asked for help in organic chemistry lab, will tell the the wrong reagent to add on purpose. They also ask questions they already know the answer to. It has nothing to do with ambition, it's simple self promotion.
Self promotion is always fueled by ambition.
 

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doctordutch said:
A gunner is someone who, when asked for help in organic chemistry lab, will tell the the wrong reagent to add on purpose. They also ask questions they already know the answer to. It has nothing to do with ambition, it's simple self promotion.
Yeah I agree the "gunner" is all about making themselves look better. They're also usually hard workers and have really firm grasps on the material. The word has a negative connotation for me cause the gunner wants to not just be the best but look like the best at all costs. Appearance of being #1 is just as important as being it. I like putting exlax in their coffee/soda/juice in the library...have fun studying on the can buddy!!

Just kidding
 

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AngryBaby said:
Yeah I agree the "gunner" is all about making themselves look better. They're also usually hard workers and have really firm grasps on the material. The word has a negative connotation for me cause the gunner wants to not just be the best but look like the best at all costs. Appearance of being #1 is just as important as being it. I like putting exlax in their coffee/soda/juice in the library...have fun studying on the can buddy!!

Just kidding
Or am I...? :cool:
 

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AngryBaby said:
The word has a negative connotation for me cause the gunner wants to not just be the best but look like the best at all costs. Appearance of being #1 is just as important as being it.
Not really. Closet gunners are not uncommon. They want to be the best at all costs but couldn't care less about looking the best. In fact they will usually talk about how little studying they did for a given exam, how much partying they did, etc. Hoping you will try that approach as well, to your demise.
 

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Law2Doc said:
Not really. Closet gunners are not uncommon. They want to be the best at all costs but couldn't care less about looking the best. In fact they will usually talk about how little studying they did for a given exam, how much partying they did, etc. Hoping you will try that approach as well, to your demise.
Yeah to me those aren't true gunners. Sure the students you describe suck and all that, but I think a gunner's got the ego/persona to match their ambition.
 

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Law2Doc said:
Gunner is often misused. It is not just someone who studies hard and does well -- the second sentence of the wikipedia definition is the more accurate. It is someone who will find a way to do well even at the expense of others. Someone who will send you a pizza at 2am before the test to wake you up. Someone who will loudly misstate things in hopes of confusing other people. Someone who freely shares resources with the class he knows are useless or inaccurate but would never share something useful -- yet is perfectly happy to use others' shared resources. Someone who will raise their hands and ask impossible questions to try and derail a competitors presentation, or jump in and correct a presenter's flawed answer in a way that makes the presenter look foolish, even if it requires spending time researching the other person's topic in order to do so. (most often seen in PBL and on rounds).
Gunnerism is not limited to med school mentality and they have the same thing in other professional schools. In law schools the gunners were the ones who got to the library first and ripped the applicable pages out of the books on reserve so that no one else but them could use the resource. (This actually happened). Hopefully your school will have few true gunners, and those you identify should be avoided wherever possible. Unless, of course, it's you. :rolleyes:
Have you ever seen any of this stuff, besides the law school example? I've never heard of or seen anything like the pizza example or even the dissemination of bull**** you describe.
 

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A gunner is a soul dead, heartless creature who would eat his own testicles if he thought it would improve his chances at medical school or at least make it appear that way.
 
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Sorry to disappoint some of you but I am a gunner and very comfortable with it. I am obsessed with making high grades and study untill midnight most nights. There is very little time to socialize since Step 1 is only one year away and I will need a kick ass grade if I want to be considered for a competitive residency. I frequently can answer some of the obscure questions thrown out by professors. Having said that, I will also tell you that I have never and will never lie, cheat, steal group resources nor spread any false information. I someone asks me a question they will receive the best information I have or an admission that I do not know enough to give a satisfactory answer. If a good study resource is found, I will send a class email that day to alert everyone. Medicine is a competitive field and I intend to secure the best position for myself possible but I will do so by hard work.
 

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gunners are the kids in your classes that ask stupid questions like, "is this going to be on the test" or "what do we need to know for the test." They are more concerned about the grade than learning the material. Profs typically hate these students, even if they do get the highest grade in the class.
 

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What is a Gunner?

See Georgetown Special Master's Program in Physiology & Biophysics, 2005-2006

'nuff said.
 

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Brainsucker said:
Have you ever seen any of this stuff, besides the law school example? I've never heard of or seen anything like the pizza example or even the dissemination of bull**** you describe.
Some I've seen, some I've heard from others at other schools. It's out there. If you have not come in contact with a true gunner, you are fortunate.
 

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Wow... remember how hard they try at the beginning of the year to make it a non-competitive environment? I'm class of '05 and I thought it was a moderately cooperative environment. I guess it's not the same for the recent graduating class though.
Wow, not in the least was it cooperative. People were checking out books just on the basis that other people couldn't use them.

Wonderful environment, luckily I found a handful of really good folks.
 

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Zoom-Zoom said:
I see gunners as the people who are so caught up in academic performance that they have long lost any sense of value for or inherent interest in learning. Their stellar academic performance is powered not by a love for the material but because they are obsessed with and possesed by an overwhelming compulsion to acheive. This includes but is not exclusive to the gunners who resort to cheating, stealing people's notes, "helping" classmates with wrong answers and so forth. Traditionally, these people will do anything for The Grade and will "gun down" anything in its path, but the term has come to represent a whole class of individuals whose academic persuits are misguided and annoying to everyone around them.
lol, that's how I would define a "gunner" too.
 

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Zoom-Zoom said:
I see gunners as the people who are so caught up in academic performance that they have long lost any sense of value for or inherent interest in learning. Their stellar academic performance is powered not by a love for the material but because they are obsessed with and possesed by an overwhelming compulsion to acheive.
Okay, so that sounds like any med student before a test. (Well, maybe not the stellar academic performance part, since we can't all be stars.) I don't see too many smiling faces in the library in the days before test week or the boards.

As an aside: That's the most frustrating part of med school for me. Most individual subjects are interesting, but I don't have the energy to delve deeper into the things that I find most interesting. I could spend more time with the books, but then I wouldn't be working out, reading fiction, sleeping, etc. All the cliches about drinking water from a fire hydrant and whatnot are true.
 

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There is very little time to socialize since Step 1 is only one year away.
I almost **** my pants when i read this you are freakin hilarious. I hope to have people like you in my class to keep me entertained.
 

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Wouldn't merely labelling individuals as a gunner imply that the one who labels has a slight insecurity when comparing themselves to a "gunner"? Maybe not, but its possible.

A gunner might care how others think of their competence or abilities. Other people care how others think of their appearance. Other people care about what other people think of their significant other. There are very, very few people who truly do not care what other people think of them. So who gives a crap? Most people are insecure, prideful, jealous, or selfishly ambitious in one aspect of life or the other.

I might get flamed for this, but whatever, its my opinion :) :)
 

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Vizious said:
Wouldn't merely labelling individuals as a gunner imply that the one who labels has a slight insecurity when comparing themselves to a "gunner"? Maybe not, but its possible.

A gunner might care how others think of their competence or abilities. Other people care how others think of their appearance. Other people care about what other people think of their significant other. There are very, very few people who truly do not care what other people think of them. So who gives a crap? Most people are insecure, prideful, jealous, or selfishly ambitious in one aspect of life or the other.

I might get flamed for this, but whatever, its my opinion :) :)
I'd love to flame you but I'm not sure what the hell you just said
 

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Learfan said:
Sorry to disappoint some of you but I am a gunner and very comfortable with it. I am obsessed with making high grades and study untill midnight most nights. There is very little time to socialize since Step 1 is only one year away and I will need a kick ass grade if I want to be considered for a competitive residency. I frequently can answer some of the obscure questions thrown out by professors. Having said that, I will also tell you that I have never and will never lie, cheat, steal group resources nor spread any false information. I someone asks me a question they will receive the best information I have or an admission that I do not know enough to give a satisfactory answer. If a good study resource is found, I will send a class email that day to alert everyone. Medicine is a competitive field and I intend to secure the best position for myself possible but I will do so by hard work.
To each person their own definition of what a "gunner" is.
 

63768

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Law2Doc has the best definition. everyone else is just arguing the same points or completely off base. he's also right about how ambition fuels self-promotion. the difference is in where one takes that ambition, whether it's internalized in the form of studying your ass off or externalized in hurting others' chances.

btw, my example of hiding books in the library is true. and i've known people who have done the "wakeup" at 3 or 4am thing. gunners are scary.
 

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Timmythemic22 said:
What is a Gunner?

See Georgetown Special Master's Program in Physiology & Biophysics, 2005-2006

'nuff said.
I didn't think it was that bad. It just seemed to me like people were smart, hard working and very motivated, but also that most people were glad to help you out if they could. Then again, I avoided Dahlgren library as much as possible (but that's just because I don't study well in libraries).
 
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dantt

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I know SMP is pretty competitive . . . is it that bad though? I worry about some of my friends who are going into it.
 

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another word for gunner is "Cornell premed"
 
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