What happened to the prestige of physicians?

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def1

def1

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Now for me, the prestige of the profession was never a reason for me to get into it, but I do find it sad how little respect the general population has for doctors these days.

In the past doctors were role models and had a lot of respect from people. Now a days most people hold some type of resent towards physicians. There is also distrust among physicians, as people tend to believe doctors are just out looking for money.

I'm just wondering when and how did the respect go wrong, and is there anything that can be done to repair the image.
 
People don't like those who both make more money then them and are smarter.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
 
def1 said:
Now for me, the prestige of the profession was never a reason for me to get into it, but I do find it sad how little respect the general population has for doctors these days.

In the past doctors were role models and had a lot of respect from people. Now a days most people hold some type of resent towards physicians. There is also distrust among physicians, as people tend to believe doctors are just out looking for money.

I'm just wondering when and how did the respect go wrong, and is there anything that can be done to repair the image.
Click to expand...

Part of it could be because there's just a lot of crappy doctors out there who went into it either for prestige, money or their parents made them do it... and so they are miserable and hate their jobs and ultimately the patients are the ones who suffer from that.

Maybe they don't have as much respect and prestige because so many of them are not role models and have driven their patients to resent them. And one person's bad experience with a doctor may harbor a resentment for all doctors, as irrational as that may be.
 
"Has your personal personal physician told you to do more jogging? Tripped over a rock on the jogging path and fractured your skull? Your physician and Mother Nature may be in cahoots. Call the ridiculous law firm. We can get you the compensation that you deserve."

😕
 
mimelim said:
You are one of those people that thinks that "Terrorists hate us because of our freedoms" aren't you?
Click to expand...

I'm working on a master's degree and as soon as people in my lab saw me interviewing and then get accepted they seem so bitter and resentful. Like one girl seriously has to point out every day how horrible doctors and how much she hates them. My school is full of bitter PhDs.
 
Arbor Vitae said:
I'm working on a master's degree and as soon as people in my lab saw me interviewing and then get accepted they seem so bitter and resentful. Like one girl seriously has to point out every day how horrible doctors and how much she hates them. My school is full of bitter PhDs.
Click to expand...

Bitter PhDs don't exactly represent general population in just about anything.
 
Geebeejay said:
I blame the internet. And grey's anatomy.
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly half-hearted but still kind of true (internet anyway). I would also add to that the rise of midlevel professions as well as extensions in education length and degree options for just about all allied-health professions.
 
PennDippody said:
Undoubtedly half-hearted but still kind of true (internet anyway). I would also add to that the rise of midlevel professions as well as extensions in education length and degree options for just about all allied-health professions.
Click to expand...

Forgot to add bad and often idiotic media attention to physician "mistakes". Add to that the internet and social media platforms that anyone can be a part of to join in on the idiotic party, and you have a mob of entitled, misinformed layman internet warriors spawned from between the legs of drama-blinded, scandal-hungry journalists, and they have digital pitchforks and torches. And the worst part...is other people actually listen and take seriously these internet warriors and their misguided internet rants and manifestos...not only do the take them seriously, but they empower and affirm them thanks to "retweeting" and "liking" etc. Who woulda thought the internet could become so vile of a place!?
 
def1 said:
Now for me, the prestige of the profession was never a reason for me to get into it, but I do find it sad how little respect the general population has for doctors these days.

In the past doctors were role models and had a lot of respect from people. Now a days most people hold some type of resent towards physicians. There is also distrust among physicians, as people tend to believe doctors are just out looking for money.

I'm just wondering when and how did the respect go wrong, and is there anything that can be done to repair the image.
Click to expand...

People just don't respect each other that much anymore, particularly in the service industry. We want the very best. We want it right now. And we want it dirt cheap. Oh, and gimme a sandwich and a Dilaudid while you're at it.
 
Population increases --> more patients --> more stress

Increase in bureaucracy --> more paperwork --> less time to spend with patients + above --> patient resentment of lack of handholding

Perception of rich, safe job --> more applicants --> more competition, competing over factors that don't necessarily make them better doctors --> different kinds of people entering medicine than would have 40 years ago.

Education loans --> many more people going to college --> many more people thinking that makes them smart

Internet --> widespread information + above ---> distrust of physician judgement

Internet --> widespread "disease support" networks --> self-proclaimed 'experts' on the internet, who are probably 15 years old and enjoy words like "mirin" and "lolz" --> cyberchondria + line 2 --> increased distrust

Mass media + malpractice lawfirms --> high profile cases --> 🙁

...etc.
 
so in 15 posts there have been 13 posts by people who have no clinical experience all saying "well obviously prestige has gone down." and the one poster with clinical experience (the resident) sort of ridicules the others.

Let me put this thought out there. "The prestige hasn't gone down at all." You talk to a patient, even as a med student, with that white coat on and you are their own personal god right then and there. You have half a personality and you tell someone you're a physician, unless they have an even more unique job than you, you are suddenly the center of all conversations for an uncomfortably long period of time. You get pulled over for a speeding ticket and have your stethoscope or white coat in the back seat, you're getting out of that ticket 9 times out of 10, even if its pretty crazy fast. If there is some local community leadership position to have (say, on the school board) people will beg you to run for it because you are the local doctor and clearly must be qualified for whatever nonsense they want your input on. The pay is roughly the same as it has been for the last 20 years, and that pay is "way more than any human *needs*" if we're being dead honest. The prestige is totally there, you are just letting paranoia and the (overblown) grumbles of a small unhappy minority paint your entire worldview the wrong color.

Of course if you have bad bedside manner, its different. Then they will tune you out regardless of degree and when a person like me walks into the room we gossip about you (The patient to I. Less so the other way around).
 
mimelim said:
Bitter PhDs don't exactly represent general population in just about anything.
Click to expand...

Haha I thought about the PhD students in my lab and laughed. 😀
 
I don't know where you're from OP or what kind of people you're around, but those from my neck of the woods hold physicians extremely high. Everyone respects their doctors out here and I really haven't heard any negative things other than a few who say their doctor ordered every test in the book.

Where are you guys getting this from?
 
DocEspana said:
so in 15 posts there have been 13 posts by people who have no clinical experience all saying "well obviously prestige has gone down." and the one poster with clinical experience (the resident) sort of ridicules the others.

Let me put this thought out there. "The prestige hasn't gone down at all." You talk to a patient, even as a med student, with that white coat on and you are their own personal god right then and there. You have half a personality and you tell someone you're a physician, unless they have an even more unique job than you, you are suddenly the center of all conversations for an uncomfortably long period of time. You get pulled over for a speeding ticket and have your stethoscope or white coat in the back seat, you're getting out of that ticket 9 times out of 10, even if its pretty crazy fast. If there is some local community leadership position to have (say, on the school board) people will beg you to run for it because you are the local doctor and clearly must be qualified for whatever nonsense they want your input on. The pay is roughly the same as it has been for the last 20 years, and that pay is "way more than any human *needs*" if we're being dead honest. The prestige is totally there, you are just letting paranoia and the (overblown) grumbles of a small unhappy minority paint your entire worldview the wrong color.

Of course if you have bad bedside manner, its different. Then they will tune you out regardless of degree and when a person like me walks into the room we gossip about you (The patient to I. Less so the other way around).
Click to expand...

Wow... 👍
 
I had a job where as an interpreter I got to listen to a lot of elderly phone conversations... every day old people by the dozens would complain about how they hate doctors and how doctors don't know anything and xyz...

I think the public holds physicians to very high expectations and expects them to be perfect and have all the answers and cure everything quickly and easily... they will then make a fuss over the simplest inconvenience and say doctors are garbage.
 
DocEspana said:
so in 15 posts there have been 13 posts by people who have no clinical experience all saying "well obviously prestige has gone down." and the one poster with clinical experience (the resident) sort of ridicules the others.

Let me put this thought out there. "The prestige hasn't gone down at all." You talk to a patient, even as a med student, with that white coat on and you are their own personal god right then and there. You have half a personality and you tell someone you're a physician, unless they have an even more unique job than you, you are suddenly the center of all conversations for an uncomfortably long period of time. You get pulled over for a speeding ticket and have your stethoscope or white coat in the back seat, you're getting out of that ticket 9 times out of 10, even if its pretty crazy fast. If there is some local community leadership position to have (say, on the school board) people will beg you to run for it because you are the local doctor and clearly must be qualified for whatever nonsense they want your input on. The pay is roughly the same as it has been for the last 20 years, and that pay is "way more than any human *needs*" if we're being dead honest. The prestige is totally there, you are just letting paranoia and the (overblown) grumbles of a small unhappy minority paint your entire worldview the wrong color.

Of course if you have bad bedside manner, its different. Then they will tune you out regardless of degree and when a person like me walks into the room we gossip about you (The patient to I. Less so the other way around).
Click to expand...

Nice post, but it doesn't become you to baselessly assume that none of the other posters have no clinical experience....I have plenty. In general, people will still think you're awesome for being a doctor, and the prestige is still there, but I think the way doctor's are viewed is definitely changed. I guess none of us in this thread really know whether or not prestige has "gone down" since none of us were doctors back in the day.

I've also never gotten a ticket when I am in my scrubs and hospital ID, and I have been pulled over many times...patients think I'm the ****, and girls I meet at bars get all googly eyed when I tell them what I do. I'm a CNA (not prestigious by any definition), but I think people hold all healthcare professionals in high regard.

If you watch the news and check online, you'll see stories about "horrible, awful" doctors refusing to do brain surgery on 90 yr old patients, you'll read about outrageous lawsuits, and you'll read complaints about how doctors "didn't get rid of my pain", and when they fail to completely and instantaneously cure pain and disease in sick people, you'll hear how doctors are idiots and don't know anything. You'll also read stuff like "nurses are the real heros", "doctors get paid too much", etc. From what I understand, nothing like this happened "back in the day", so in that regard, I think yes, the prestige has "gone down". But among many people, there's still plenty of prestige there.
 
def1 said:
Now for me, the prestige of the profession was never a reason for me to get into it, but I do find it sad how little respect the general population has for doctors these days.

In the past doctors were role models and had a lot of respect from people. Now a days most people hold some type of resent towards physicians. There is also distrust among physicians, as people tend to believe doctors are just out looking for money.

I'm just wondering when and how did the respect go wrong, and is there anything that can be done to repair the image.
Click to expand...

Combination of historical revisionism, false perceptions of the modern profession, and the abundance of free medical information (WebMD, Wikipedia, etc.)?
 
Geebeejay said:
I blame the internet. And grey's anatomy.
Click to expand...

I don't even see how some people think watching Grey's Anatomy will make them want to be a doctor even more. When I watched the show, all I could think was how they portray the work of a doctor to be so unappealing.
 
ever get ready for a fight? Like a school yard brawl. You pump yourself up for hours. You think about how you will win. You contemplate ducking and weaving. You practice the perfect form for your punch. You keep telling yourself that all it will be a drag-out brawl but, you know what, you've got this. Your opponent isnt that tough and you'll definitely win. Everyone is telling you so. Everyone is cheering you on. Everyone is whispering in your ear that he has a glass jaw.

Then you get out there, face to face and realize he has 4 inches and 40lbs on you. For a split second you have doubt, and then the singular punch lands on *your* face and you're down and out after one swing.

It doesn't matter how much old women whine and complain in their free time. It doesnt matter how much good tv "this doctor didnt do their job" makes. It is not relevant (Except in our own insecurities) how solid the nursing lobby is as making itself better than what it was yesterday. When a patient actually sees a physician in almost any capacity, the prestige overwhelms them and they are putty in your hands. What they say in their own free time is bravado and pointless because it won't effect what happens when you actually interact. Its so intrinsically written into society that it will happen 90-95% of the time. the other 5-10% of the time it is someone who is actively pissed off and looking for someone to blame/sue. But i get the feeling pissy litigious people have existed since "back in the day" depending on when you are defining back in the day ass. They may not have always been litigious, but they've always been pissy.
 
DocEspana said:
ever get ready for a fight? Like a school yard brawl. You pump yourself up for hours. You think about how you will win. You contemplate ducking and weaving. You practice the perfect form for your punch. You keep telling yourself that all it will be a drag-out brawl but, you know what, you've got this. Your opponent isnt that tough and you'll definitely win. Everyone is telling you so. Everyone is cheering you on. Everyone is whispering in your ear that he has a glass jaw.

Then you get out there, face to face and realize he has 4 inches and 40lbs on you. For a split second you have doubt, and then the singular punch lands on *your* face and you're down and out after one swing.

It doesn't matter how much old women whine and complain in their free time. It doesnt matter how much good tv "this doctor didnt do their job" makes. It is not relevant (Except in our own insecurities) how solid the nursing lobby is as making itself better than what it was yesterday. When a patient actually sees a physician in almost any capacity, the prestige overwhelms them and they are putty in your hands. What they say in their own free time is bravado and pointless because it won't effect what happens when you actually interact. Its so intrinsically written into society that it will happen 90-95% of the time. the other 5-10% of the time it is someone who is actively pissed off and looking for someone to blame/sue. But i get the feeling pissy litigious people have existed since "back in the day" depending on when you are defining back in the day ass. They may not have always been litigious, but they've always been pissy.
Click to expand...

I always win my fistfights 🙂
 
circulus vitios said:
Combination of historical revisionism, false perceptions of the modern profession, and the abundance of free medical information (WebMD, Wikipedia, etc.)?
Click to expand...

Agreed.

The overall societal view may seem less prestigious. However, individual patients still have tremendous respect for their physicians and even med students (for the most part). I wouldn't let it bother you.
 
Bearstronaut said:
Population increases --> more patients --> more stress

Increase in bureaucracy --> more paperwork --> less time to spend with patients + above --> patient resentment of lack of handholding

Perception of rich, safe job --> more applicants --> more competition, competing over factors that don't necessarily make them better doctors --> different kinds of people entering medicine than would have 40 years ago.

Education loans --> many more people going to college --> many more people thinking that makes them smart

Internet --> widespread information + above ---> distrust of physician judgement

Internet --> widespread "disease support" networks --> self-proclaimed 'experts' on the internet, who are probably 15 years old and enjoy words like "mirin" and "lolz" --> cyberchondria + line 2 --> increased distrust

Mass media + malpractice lawfirms --> high profile cases --> 🙁

...etc.
Click to expand...

👍

Oh how I love this flowchart!
 
touchpause13 said:
Color me shocked

Sent from my SCH-I405 using SDN Mobile
Click to expand...

More government is always bad for the individual patient. This is a basic concept that goes back to ancient civilization. Do no harm and protect their privacy --- I.e hipp oath. These needs are incompatible with bureaucratic survival.
 
pre med 2014 said:
More government is always bad for the individual patient. This is a basic concept that goes back to ancient civilization. Do no harm and protect their privacy --- I.e hipp oath. These needs are incompatible with bureaucratic survival.
Click to expand...

Who needs legally-binding licenses? If I hang a shingle saying I'm a certified* neurosurgeon, who the hell is the government to say I'm not! Don't tread on me! Molon labe! Remember the Alamo! Ron Paul 2016! Who is John Galt!
 
pre med 2014 said:
More government is always bad for the individual patient. This is a basic concept that goes back to ancient civilization. Do no harm and protect their privacy --- I.e hipp oath. These needs are incompatible with bureaucratic survival.
Click to expand...

:lame:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: there are obvious perils of bureaucracy, but the belief that a free healthcare market will sufficiently self-regulate is extremely naive.
 
First year medical student here, in my few times in the hospital (wearing a white coat and stethoscope), I have been called "sir" multiple times. I know nothing, and still get asked personal/medical questions and treated with respect.
 
I am pleased to see the number of posts on this thread pointing to "observer bias", that is, the idea that physician prestige hasn't changed all that much, but that we see things differently.

Based on over 30 years of being a physician, I mostly agree with this. I've seen relatively little evidence that physicians are routinely being mistreated, although I recognize that this may be different in some settings, such as in the ER. Mostly, we continue to get respect as we earn it.

However, it is true that patients have more access to information and wish to challenge us more than 30 years ago. This is no surprise. If I care for a patient with, lets say, "necrotizing enterocolitis", then, whereas they (family members, not the babies...) would only have had a few limited books to look this up 30 years ago, now they have a plethora of on-line resources that they use. So, the questions can be more challenging based on that. On the whole, I like the change - I like to have informed family members, but recognize that sometimes it comes across as "disrespect."

In any case, on the whole, I don't think the next generation should expect to not be respected as physicians, but they can expect that patients and their families will know more, and expect more explanations than in the past.
 
It's still there.

If you don't believe me, ask any of your Indian friends.


🙂
 
thanks-obama-01.gif
 
DocEspana said:
so in 15 posts there have been 13 posts by people who have no clinical experience all saying "well obviously prestige has gone down." and the one poster with clinical experience (the resident) sort of ridicules the others.

Let me put this thought out there. "The prestige hasn't gone down at all." You talk to a patient, even as a med student, with that white coat on and you are their own personal god right then and there. You have half a personality and you tell someone you're a physician, unless they have an even more unique job than you, you are suddenly the center of all conversations for an uncomfortably long period of time. You get pulled over for a speeding ticket and have your stethoscope or white coat in the back seat, you're getting out of that ticket 9 times out of 10, even if its pretty crazy fast. If there is some local community leadership position to have (say, on the school board) people will beg you to run for it because you are the local doctor and clearly must be qualified for whatever nonsense they want your input on. The pay is roughly the same as it has been for the last 20 years, and that pay is "way more than any human *needs*" if we're being dead honest. The prestige is totally there, you are just letting paranoia and the (overblown) grumbles of a small unhappy minority paint your entire worldview the wrong color.

Of course if you have bad bedside manner, its different. Then they will tune you out regardless of degree and when a person like me walks into the room we gossip about you (The patient to I. Less so the other way around).
Click to expand...

This is true. I don't make it a big deal that I'm in med school, but that doesn't stop everyone else.

"Wow Knux, you must be soooo smart, saving lives everyday!"
Me: "Well, I'm not that smart haha"
"Don't be so modest, you're a freaking DOCTOR!"
Me: 😳
 
KnuxNole said:
This is true. I don't make it a big deal that I'm in med school, but that doesn't stop everyone else.

"Wow Knux, you must be soooo smart, saving lives everyday!"
Me: "Well, I'm not that smart haha"
"Don't be so modest, you're a freaking DOCTOR!"
Me: 😎
Click to expand...

ftfy
 
Geebeejay said:
Nice post, but it doesn't become you to baselessly assume that none of the other posters have no clinical experience....I have plenty. In general, people will still think you're awesome for being a doctor, and the prestige is still there, but I think the way doctor's are viewed is definitely changed. I guess none of us in this thread really know whether or not prestige has "gone down" since none of us were doctors back in the day.

I've also never gotten a ticket when I am in my scrubs and hospital ID, and I have been pulled over many times...patients think I'm the ****, and girls I meet at bars get all googly eyed when I tell them what I do. I'm a CNA (not prestigious by any definition), but I think people hold all healthcare professionals in high regard.

If you watch the news and check online, you'll see stories about "horrible, awful" doctors refusing to do brain surgery on 90 yr old patients, you'll read about outrageous lawsuits, and you'll read complaints about how doctors "didn't get rid of my pain", and when they fail to completely and instantaneously cure pain and disease in sick people, you'll hear how doctors are idiots and don't know anything. You'll also read stuff like "nurses are the real heros", "doctors get paid too much", etc. From what I understand, nothing like this happened "back in the day", so in that regard, I think yes, the prestige has "gone down". But among many people, there's still plenty of prestige there.
Click to expand...

LOL. Nearly spit up my drink reading that.
 
HopefulSlav said:
We live in a culture where not being working class is shameful. "Equality".
Click to expand...


Wait... you're serious?!


tumblr_m4lidhFLaD1rn95k2o1_400.gif


Do you live in a community in rural WV where 90% of all high school graduates go into mining jobs? Cause I can't possibly understand this comment in any other context.

see: "Bad economy" with "High unemployment" juxtaposed with a working class, blue collar job market that is actively seeking job applicants and can't find them. We have such a negative stigma with real working class jobs that we can complain about there being no jobs, while these jobs are desperate for applicants and see no hypocrisy in that.
 
red doctober said:
scapegoat for the high cost of healthcare
Click to expand...

👍

the leaders in our field have failed the upcoming generation in ensuring we had significant clout in DC..right now the lawyers in our government are destroying us in more ways than one..(whether theyre democrat, republicans, etc they're ultimately all the same, just put up a facade in front of the camera)

and the field has done nothing to ensure of the perception that other groups are trying to portray of us..all media outlets picked up a study last year saying that doctors salary is to blame for high health care costs.........

here is the study: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/us/08docs.html

and stuff like this from our very own does not help, very irresponsible for him to say that while not portraying the full story:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterubel/2012/08/21/its-physician-pay-stupid/
 
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