What happens to all of the pre-meds that don't make it into med school?

[Tummytroubles]

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Most people don't have the resources for a post bacc. Applying is so expensive, 1 shot is all many get. As for jobs after graduation, My bio major friends started off between 32,000-42,000 and most now make around 50,000. The pay kind of stagnates around 50,000 unless you go into the business side. This is from my top 100 scho not HYP.

 

[Etorphine]

.

 

[Xiao]

Some people re-take the MCAT and do better. Some people re-apply after they don't get in the first time. Some people go to graduate school. Some people get jobs in the sciences. Some people go into business, go to law school etc. I know people that did all of those things from undergrad (or who eventually went to my/other med schools).

I can tell you this. Of those 20+ people that fall into all of those categories that I know, there is no way I would ever say that the people that ended up in medical school are happier or even better off than the people that didn't. Most of them went on with their lives and didn't look back. That isn't to say that those of us who went to medical school are unhappy, but life certainly does not end if one does not go to medical school.

👍 Life continues. Medical school is not the only path to career fullfillment/happiness.

 

[Oxygen206]

Hint: no one pays a bio undergrad to do healthcare consulting.

I have a bio degree and I do infection control (healthcare) consulting....soooo just sayin 😉

 

[Xiao]

I've met former (failed) pre-meds all over the place, many of which didn't make it 10-20 years ago.

My bank teller at Wells Fargo kept asking about what I do for a living, and I said I'm a med student. He said he was a pre-med, but didn't have the grades to cut it.

My veterinarian asked the same question, and I said med student. She then went off on a 15 minute rant about how admissions are unfair, etc. etc. She said she didn't make it in back in the 90's, and went the vet route instead.

One of my favorite underground rap artists (Mr. Liff) used to be a pre-med and failed out. It comes out every once in a while in his lyrics.

My best friend's mother's daughter has been re-applying for four years straight with no acceptance.

Just some examples from my own life...

Not everyone wants to be a doctor... they might have chosen to not continue to try for med school for many reasons. A lot of these people that congratulate you on your med school acceptance/tell you how they wish they could do the same are just blowing smoke + stroking your ego.

Also -- as a side note, vet school admissions are just as tough as med school admissions. In terms of selectivity, there are many other professions that are much more selective than most med schools. (Ex. i-banking, big-name consulting, private equity, etc.) Many of these require a different skillset than getting high GPA/MCAT.

 

[Oxygen206]

Not everyone wants to be a doctor

I think it's hard for some pre-meds to fully understand this.

 

[Whiskeypunch]

I have a bio degree and I do infection control (healthcare) consulting....soooo just sayin 😉

For McKinsey? Look there are certainly exceptions. My point was legit consulting firms don't hire grad's with mediocre records from state schools with bio undergrads and no experience or MBA. I'm sorry it just doesn't happen.

 

[Oxygen206]

For McKinsey? Look there are certainly exceptions. My point was legit consulting firms don't hire grad's with mediocre records from state schools with bio undergrads and no experience or MBA. I'm sorry it just doesn't happen.

No, I realize I am a definite exception. I honestly believe if I was anywhere else but Alaska I would not have gotten this job.

Most people I graduated with work as lab techs at research/biotech companies -- Seattle has a lot of them.

 

[kami333]

That having been said, I don't think that people who don't go to medical school become nurses/PAs. In fact, I don't know a single one. On the other side, I don't know that many nursing/PA students, but none of them wanted to go to medical school. They went to nursing/PA schools as a first choice because thats what they wanted to do based on where they were in undergrad and/or high school.

I see nursing/PA used frequently as an alternative on SDN but it honestly doesn't make a lot of sense, pre-med and nursing are generally 2 different tracks at most schools.

"Traditional" premeds will have to go back to school for 1~2years through an accelerated ADN/BSN program to become nurses (unless they were a premed in nursing program which usually isn't recommended due to course selection and rigor) and PA schools generally require ~1000hrs of clinical experience and depending on your credentials would be more difficult to get into than medical school.

 

[Thego2guy]

Wtf CAN you do with an undergrad Bio degree? Would a Chemistry degree be more lucrative? Or do you definitely have to get a Masters?

 

[Camy99]

You talk like you're still in high school. Why so many "lol's"? It's annoying.

Thank you. I thought it would be abusive if I posted I wanted to punch them for every "lol". There's nothing funny about someone's career not going the way they expected, but at the end of the day it's not the end of the world.
How old are you when you realize you really aren't going to be a doctor--early to mid 20s usually?? A lot, and I mean A LOT, of people turn their lives around completely at that age (I'm referring to people who dropped out of HS, had a kid early, or went to jail--or all of the above?). A failed pre-med at least has a degree and experience. Not that hard to do something with it.
To me, not becoming a doctor is like reaching for the moon, if you fail there's a bunch of stars you can land on. (excuse the cheesiness 😀)

 

[tn4596]

Wtf CAN you do with an undergrad Bio degree? Would a Chemistry degree be more lucrative? Or do you definitely have to get a Masters?

for bio, research assistant I pays 13 bucks an hour
or u can go asistant II which pays 14-15 if u have research experience
not a lot of other posistions out there that you can use ur bio on. it is pretty pathetic rly..

chemistry is not that much better, there are firms who wll take you to do lab works or work with chem engineer, but still...

a lucartive undergrade degree would be anything in engineering or business.
If you are a science major, you will pretty much have to do more schooling.

 

[kpcrew]

for bio, research assistant I pays 13 bucks an hour
or u can go asistant II which pays 14-15 if u have research experience
not a lot of other posistions out there that you can use ur bio on. it is pretty pathetic rly..

chemistry is not that much better, there are firms who wll take you to do lab works or work with chem engineer, but still...

a lucartive undergrade degree would be anything in engineering or business.
If you are a science major, you will pretty much have to do more schooling.

well yeah, when you have a lot of people with ph.d.s looking for jobs, of course people with bachelor degrees are going to find it hard to compete

 

[K31]

When I entered Wash U undergrad in 2004 we had ~750 pre-meds out of class of 1600. The best data set that I could find when I graduated in 2008 was that about 140 went to medical school (More applied, did not get in.) I assume that it is very similar to Hopkins.

That having been said, I don't think that people who don't go to medical school become nurses/PAs. In fact, I don't know a single one. On the other side, I don't know that many nursing/PA students, but none of them wanted to go to medical school. They went to nursing/PA schools as a first choice because thats what they wanted to do based on where they were in undergrad and/or high school.

This is purely based on anecdotal evidence, but I don't think the populations interested in those fields overlap very much.

On the other hand, I have many friends from undergrad who started as premed but ended up as nurses, PAs, and such. May be the difference between an elite private university and a large state school (15,000 undergrads, with probably less than 20 a year going to med school).

 

[JESSFALLING]

for bio, research assistant I pays 13 bucks an hour
or u can go asistant II which pays 14-15 if u have research experience
not a lot of other posistions out there that you can use ur bio on.

That's horrible 😱. I think I made more delivering pizzas back in the day.

 

[darby11]

Most of them went on with their lives and didn't look back. That isn't to say that those of us who went to medical school are unhappy, but life certainly does not end if one does not go to medical school.

Well said my man

 

[qwerty2012]

Instantly engulfed by darkness and sucked into a world of abyss.
Into an inferno underworld.
There..they are constantly tormented.

 

[Thego2guy]

That's horrible 😱. I think I made more delivering pizzas back in the day.

I just got my first research position for $12.20 lol... stop making me feel bad 🙁

 

[Etorphine]

Not everyone wants to be a doctor... they might have chosen to not continue to try for med school for many reasons. A lot of these people that congratulate you on your med school acceptance/tell you how they wish they could do the same are just blowing smoke + stroking your ego.

Yea duh...people have different goals . A lot of people (pre-meds) can't tell social cues either, and it is pretty obvious to tell who is still bitter about the whole thing when they get visibly flustered 15 years after the fact.

 

[Tummytroubles]

for bio, research assistant I pays 13 bucks an hour
or u can go asistant II which pays 14-15 if u have research experience
not a lot of other posistions out there that you can use ur bio on. it is pretty pathetic rly..

chemistry is not that much better, there are firms who wll take you to do lab works or work with chem engineer, but still...

a lucartive undergrade degree would be anything in engineering or business.
If you are a science major, you will pretty much have to do more schooling.

This is the pay if you don't look hard engough for a job. I had research experience, references, and decent grades (for someone looking for a job) and started much higher. Jobs that pay well don't have to advertise on Monster. They usually on post on their sites.
Be proactive and this won't be your fate.

 

[OREdwardsJR]

It's possible to NOT get into Med School?



Que?

 

[FattySlug]

Grad school isn't much easier to get into than medical school. They still want sky high GRE scores and GPAs, and unlike med schools the only EC they care about is research and they want a lot of it, far more than what the average pre-med has. On top of that, grad schools really want LORs from PIs and science professors (with as many of your letters coming from PIs as possible). They won't even humor a letter coming from a non-science source, including physicians, which means a lot of pre-meds are SOL on that end. So if you were deadset on med school and couldn't get in, chances are you won't get into a terribly great grad program either (assuming you do get in). And while it is true that there are far more grad schools than med schools and fewer applicants, grad schools also have so few open seats that they make med school class sizes look like undergrad.

Of course, this is all ignoring the fact that if you go to grad school without an actual love for science and research you are making an absolutely terrible decision that you will quickly come to regret.

Are you in grad school?

 

[STAT EKG]

I wonder where she was working. Boutique firms start undergrads off at 55K and and top firms start off at 70K+.

And judging by all the firms coming to recruit on campus constantly, I'm fairly confident I can secure a job.

EDIT: As a caveat, you can only really count on getting one of these jobs from HYP. If not, then you might be SOL with a bio degree.

LMAO @ that caveat.

"Don't even worry about finding a job, let your money work for you and make 100k+ annually on interest."

"Oh wait... As a caveat to that, you'd have to be filthy f'n rich like me."

 

[NonTraditional3]

Instantly engulfed by darkness and sucked into a world of abyss.
Into an inferno underworld.
There..they are constantly tormented.

Yep.
That will be me if I don't get into medical school on application cycle one.
I'm pouring all of my money into MCAT books, Application Fees and a masters degree for grade remediation.
Will definitely succumb to the abyss if I don't get in on round 1; don't know how many years it will be before I have the savings to "apply broadly" again, but I expect it would be long enough that I would need to reproduce a very high MCAT. Who the eff wants to (can, even) do that twice.

This post really got away from me, but I guess I'm letting people know I am absurdly neurotic. And that I agree with the quoted. But mostly that I'm neurotic.

 

[Mornhavon]

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[NonTraditional3]

"Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."

Adding to my PS.

 

[NightGod]

There are many places that have nothing to do with Biology that will hire you into a management track for having ANY degree. Note I didn't say manager, I said management track. I have a friend with an English degree with a concentration in creative writing who started working on a help desk and was a manager within 4 years and is doing just fine. His exact words were "they wouldn't have even looked at my app for the position without the degree, but the only time I even remotely use my degree is when I write my employee reviews every December".

All that said, there is a very good reason I decided to get a business degree as my undergraduate track. Worst case, I don't get into med school and I have a reasonably valuable degree related to the career I've had for the past two decades (Bachelors in Business-Operations Management and Information Systems-I've been in IT since the early 90s). Best case I get into med school and know my arse from a hole in the ground if I go into private practice.

 

[notbobtrustme]

All science degrees are essentially worthless. Your average chemistry/biology job is a dead-end tech job with no benefits. The few that move on from that have basically won the academic lottery. The problem is that science can be outsourced to H1bs or overseas with little loss in quality. That drives down wages and destroys the job market. Even at the PhD level, you have 10-50 PhDs for every position. A couple years ago, while I was still studying at Northwestern for my PhD, we had a faculty search and we literally got 300 applicants for a single position. The first thing that was done was to immediately throw out anyone without a first author Science/Nature/Cell publication. That narrowed the field down to 200. How can you compete in that environment?

At the industry level, you have the same level of competition ontop of a culture of job cutting. Every major pharm company has cut back on their R&D divisions. Abbott shut down their entire cancer drug discovery team. A basic scientist position at Pfizer/Abbott/Baxter starts at around 60,000. Remember, you need to do at least 5-7 years of a PhD, which is at least a 60 hour work week. Then you absolutely need at least 2 years post-doc, which is another 60 hour work week, minimum. If you aren't producing high powered papers, then you have wasted your time. So those minimum of 2 years can become 6+ while you churn out those high powered papers.

That's what the real world is like for scientists.

 

[kpcrew]

that's because you have people in the brics saying that they won't respect patent law, allowing for cheaper generics to be made so they can spend less money and save lives. after all that short term thinking, new drugs won't being developed since it costs a ton of money to do research. so it isn't worth it for any company to spend billions developing drugs because others will be profiting from their work without having to pay for research and development. and then you will have even more unemployed people with science degrees, scratching their heads wondering why they don't have a job after all those news articles about needing more people with stem degrees.

 

[235788]

That is not true.

Do these firms not come to you all's schools? Management consulting is a pretty standard route to go right out of college at my school

Edit: Nvm, for most undergrads healthcare consulting is not a viable option. But students graduating from top schools definitely have other options with a bio degree. Different people have different options, so people shouldn't generalize that a bio degree is worthless.

lol right.




They go:
- pods
- DO
- PA
- Caribbean

 

[kduck]

Most schools are, by definition, not top schools. So it would be a fair generalization.

👍

 

[mmmcdowe]

The woman who played the intern Sunny from the 8th season of scrubs was a pre-med before she became a professional actress.

 

[Thego2guy]

-Dentistry
-PA
-Podiatry
-PT
-Caribbean
-Nursing
-Grad school

There's a sh*tload you can do with a science degree as long as you continue your education.

​

Dentistry? Really? I know Podiatry has average MCAT scores in the very low 20's, but I was under the impression that dentistry is still very competetive (albeit the lower GPA averages)

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

Are you in grad school?

No. I was considering it before but right now my goals are MD/PhD instead since as long as my MCAT ends up being good enough I should be able to get into a good program.

Knowing what I know about grad admissions, I think people on here are underestimating the difficulty of grad admissions too much. Yeah, it's harder to get into med school, but not to the point that a med school reject is a surefire acceptance for a PhD program, especially if we assume that a person would first try to get into DO school before settling for a PhD as a last resort to make use of their undergrad degree. Especially when you consider that all that clinical experience, shadowing, volunteer experience, and your MCAT score mean nothing to grad schools, and the medicore research experience that most pre-meds have (due to focusing on clinical ECs more like they should) isn't going to stack up to a pre-grad's research experience which is pretty much the main thing that PhD programs look at.

 

[Ruminate]

So many of these replies are so condescending. It's true that medical schools have one of the higher averages/test scores but how does that make it any better or worse?

Sales can recruit any degrees, but biotech firms and such require internships. Internships are also competitive. You want to get one that allows you to expose yourself to as many skill sets whether it's a big or small company.

Think about the big picture, not just didn't-make-it or made-it. Graduate schools, more specifically PhD, filter in the sense that there are limited spots with limited funding. But with the competition so fierce, eventually only the well-networked and/or best get funding, which leads to positions. Medical school filters so heavily at the medical school step. The attrition rate will not be as high as graduate school.

The name of the program may not matter as much in the big picture of research, but the program does matter more than medical school. Just getting into state schools may be all right,but if you're going to do nitric oxide damage research related to heart disease at a school with only 1 or 2 researchers, you're not going to get very much exposure to different techniques, networks, and such. So to get into a top program, you'll have to have excellent research.

Also, you can't even compare the two: graduate and medical. Totally separate admissions. Maybe medicine and dentistry because of didactic two years.

Many of these posts don't put down DO. Why not condescend them too? Or is it because it's still medicine? Not exactly being objective to all fields.

Anyways, no matter what the field is, all the application reviewers are human. If one area is lackluster, then make it up with the other areas. And the best will still make it. The people who try again and again may not have real guidance -- they don't know what to fix or get stuck with the same test score.

In general, biology provides limited opportunities in the sense that you're scrounging for any field of work that will not only accept you but also have room to promote yourself, outside of health care or academia. Look at job postings. More require more specific degrees or skill sets whether it's Biochemistry with MATLAB capabilities, including sales.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I think we are lumping MD and DO together for the purposes of "medical school."

 

[Tummytroubles]

Dentistry? Really? I know Podiatry has average MCAT scores in the very low 20's, but I was under the impression that dentistry is still very competetive (albeit the lower GPA averages)

Dentistry is not a fallback. Dental Schools blacklist anyone who has previously applied to medical school. Dental school is up there with good DO schools, lower tier MD schools in terms of stats. That said, if I was better with my hand I would consider it. 35 hours a week, many don't do residency, and lots of opportunities to give back. A friend of mine works 30 and volunteers a day or so at a free dental clinic. She's very happy and I'm jealous.

 

[Thego2guy]

Dentistry is not a fallback. Dental Schools blacklist anyone who has previously applied to medical school. Dental school is up there with good DO schools, lower tier MD schools in terms of stats. That said, if I was better with my hand I would consider it. 35 hours a week, many don't do residency, and lots of opportunities to give back. A friend of mine works 30 and volunteers a day or so at a free dental clinic. She's very happy and I'm jealous.

That's what I thought. Thank you for confirming that. (btw, didn't know dental schools blacklist prior med applicants)

 

[FattySlug]

They all commit seppuku.

 

[pre med 2014]

McDonald's

 

[Gnomes]

Biotechnology is very location dependent. Biotech hubs like Boston, San Francisco, San Diego, the Virginia research triangle, etc. have high living costs.

Just for what it's worth -
Research Triangle Park (in North Carolina) is a biotech hub with affordable living. I had a fairly nice two bedroom apartment there for less than $800/month, five minutes from NIH's North Carolina campus.

 

[circulus vitios]

Dentistry is not a fallback. Dental Schools blacklist anyone who has previously applied to medical school. Dental school is up there with good DO schools, lower tier MD schools in terms of stats. That said, if I was better with my hand I would consider it. 35 hours a week, many don't do residency, and lots of opportunities to give back. A friend of mine works 30 and volunteers a day or so at a free dental clinic. She's very happy and I'm jealous.

Sure, if you're dumb enough to admit that you took the MCAT and applied to medical school.

 

[ILOVECAPSLOCK]

Just wondering...what is a SMP or PI? Sorry but i am a newbie

 

[Dranger]

I see nursing/PA used frequently as an alternative on SDN but it honestly doesn't make a lot of sense, pre-med and nursing are generally 2 different tracks at most schools.

"Traditional" premeds will have to go back to school for 1~2years through an accelerated ADN/BSN program to become nurses (unless they were a premed in nursing program which usually isn't recommended due to course selection and rigor) and PA schools generally require ~1000hrs of clinical experience and depending on your credentials would be more difficult to get into than medical school.

I did the pre-med/nursing route (pre med during the summer, it wasn't possible with the amount of nursing credits each semester) and I wanted to shoot my self by the end of it. So many hospital hours and time spent in the library for both routes.....

 

[tn4596]

Just wondering...what is a SMP or PI? Sorry but i am a newbie

PI = principal investigator = your lab boss
SMP = special master program = as far as i understand, it is pretty much a 2-year program consisted of med school classes for those with low gpa to improve their chance - especially if the SMP is connected to a med school

Anyway, if you dun admit that you applied for med school on dental school app, what if they find out/can they find out? I beleived if u lie on an application, you will prolly be blacklisted everywhere and pretty much end your academic future.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

PI = principal investigator = your lab boss
SMP = special master program = as far as i understand, it is pretty much a 2-year program consisted of med school classes for those with low gpa to improve their chance - especially if the SMP is connected to a med school

Anyway, if you dun admit that you applied for med school on dental school app, what if they find out/can they find out? I beleived if u lie on an application, you will prolly be blacklisted everywhere and pretty much end your academic future.

Schools don't communicate with each other like that. If you get blacklisted for lying at one school, you'll just be blacklisted at that school.

Anyway, the only way a school is going to find out is if you tell them in some way, either explicitly ("Yes, I applied to med school"), via a LOR ("Mr. X is definitely fit for dental school as evidenced by his 33 MCAT score"), a slip-up on your part at an interview ("Nah, this interview is pretty nice, not like the ones I had when I was applying to medical sch-I mean undergrad"), or it's obvious from your ECs and/or transcript (8 credits in clinical shadowing, president of pre-med club, 500 hours volunteered at a hospital, EMT training, writer for school newspaper including an article entitled "Dental School: The next best thing for medical school rejects").

 

[dudestheman90]

.

 

[Mavii]

Hey guys let me tell you that getting into medical school is only for the few chosen ones. I did my bachelors degree, spent 4 pain-staking years doing the pre-med curriculum but i just didn't make the gpa needed for medical school. I'm now embarking on a nursing curriculum and will be starting next fall, which will take me 2 years to complete. I'll be 25 by the time i finish. Now my best advice to premeds is to sacrifice your soul in under grad so you don't end up like me. Yes many pre-meds will not get into medical school. You need a plan B and even in some instances a Plan C, in case you don't get into medical school. I do believe becoming a DNP/NP is your second best option if you couldn't get into med school. It allows you to remain in the medical field and perform a role similar to a physician although not exact. Although you won't have that same prestige level as a physician, it's as close as you can get and it's better than nothing. I decided not to go the PA route since you'll be working underneath an MD/DO, an NP allows you to practice under your own license. My plan C would of been PT school, but i ultimately decided that's a role very different than i wanted to pursue. I want to treat, diagnose, prescribe type of role. So thank god plan B worked. Now again i have to stress, don't end up like me and so many others. If i was MD/DO quality i would have gone that route immediately. There are other rewarding careers, but def! MD/DO was my Plan A. So my best advice to premeds, unfortunately you really need backup plans. Sadly we dont always get what we want in life, but you really need to self-reflect and ask yourself what will i do if i don;t get in. Have at least 2 backup plans. For me, the Caribbean was just to risky and costly and told myself it would of been a very bad idea. You have to make a list of the pros and cons of each field and see which 1 would suit you best if med school didnt work out. Good Luck

Wow that's deep dude. Probably one of the most selfless posts I've seen here. Good luck with your career

 

[Temperature101]

I believe most of them do other programs in that order...PharmD, DDS, DPM, PA, Nursing as a last resort.

 

[Temperature101]

Hey guys let me tell you that getting into medical school is only for the few chosen ones. I did my bachelors degree, spent 4 pain-staking years doing the pre-med curriculum but i just didn't make the gpa needed for medical school. I'm now embarking on a nursing curriculum and will be starting next fall, which will take me 2 years to complete. I'll be 25 by the time i finish. Now my best advice to premeds is to sacrifice your soul in under grad so you don't end up like me. Yes many pre-meds will not get into medical school. You need a plan B and even in some instances a Plan C, in case you don't get into medical school. I do believe becoming a DNP/NP is your second best option if you couldn't get into med school. It allows you to remain in the medical field and perform a role similar to a physician although not exact. Although you won't have that same prestige level as a physician, it's as close as you can get and it's better than nothing. I decided not to go the PA route since you'll be working underneath an MD/DO, an NP allows you to practice under your own license. My plan C would of been PT school, but i ultimately decided that's a role very different than i wanted to pursue. I want to treat, diagnose, prescribe type of role. So thank god plan B worked. Now again i have to stress, don't end up like me and so many others. If i was MD/DO quality i would have gone that route immediately. There are other rewarding careers, but def! MD/DO was my Plan A. So my best advice to premeds, unfortunately you really need backup plans. Sadly we dont always get what we want in life, but you really need to self-reflect and ask yourself what will i do if i don;t get in. Have at least 2 backup plans. For me, the Caribbean was just to risky and costly and told myself it would of been a very bad idea. You have to make a list of the pros and cons of each field and see which 1 would suit you best if med school didnt work out. Good Luck

Did you consider podiatry school?