what is a rotating internship?

[ebola95]

ok, i'm confused, DO's are required to participate in a rotating internship right? does that mean we shill participate in "Match Day" or is that reserved for people electing to do an allopathic internship? I thought that you have to do an osteopathic internship in order to be recognized by the AOA; am i way off base here or what?

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[turtleboard]

Currently there are only five states which require DOs to do an AOA-rotating internship for licensure (something like WV, MI, PA, and two others which escape me right now).

I can't say if there is an osteopathic match day, since I commonly hear that associated with the NRMP match and not all DO students match MD residencies through the NRMP.

I believe that if you want to teach in an osteopathic institution or serve on the AOA Board, you must do an osteopathic internship.

Tim of New York City.

 

[Future DOc]

Actually Tim, there is an osteopathic match day. It is January & that is the dilemma facing a lot of DO students because if you are undecided which match to enter (AOA or AMA-you can only enter one as a DO student) it can make choosing very difficult.

Since the AMA match day is in March, it puts DO students who really want to do an ACMGE res in a tough position because if you decide to enter the AOA match & get MATCHED in Jan, I think you have to do the AOA res. I could be mistaken but thats my understanding.

To ebola95, to probably answer your ques, there was a discussion about rotating internships in the Rotations & Residencies File under the heading, "ACMGE res or AOA". Go check it out!!! I hope it helps

Rob
WesternU/COMP Class of 2002

 

[ebola95]

thanks to you both!

 

[Hskermdic]

I heard that the AOA matched is being moved so that it will take place on the same day as the ACGME match. Does anyone know if that is true?

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Carrie
KCOM '03

 

[turtleboard]

What on earth for?

Tim of New York City.

 

[drusso]

Consistency is the reason. Also, students who match in the AOA match will be automatically withdrawn from AMA match. This prevents students from using AOA programs as back-ups.

 

[UHS2002]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the AOA match is held BEFORE the ACGME match, so people could not be using the AOA match as a backup, unless they took an AOA acceptance and then defaulted for an ACGME one (which is illegal, because you have a binding contract, but a few people still try to do it in both matches). Right now, you match AOA, you go to your matched residency, unless they agree to release you from the contract. You match in january AOA, I don't care what happens in march, you are already committed my friend!

At least with two different "match days", you could try to match ACGME if you applied AOA and didn't match. It sounds like if they are going to have the same match day, suppose you match at your 2nd choice AOA but your first choice ACGME, then you are going to be forced to take your second choice?! Sounds nuts to me!!!

I hope it is just a rumor!

 

[turtleboard]

I thought the system for osteopathic med students with regard to ACGME residencies is you can either 1) participate in the various matching programs, the largest of course being NRMP or 2) work out a contract with any residency director.

So if you're an osteopathic med student, you don't necessarily have to participate in the MD match. You can apply for the DO match, try to work out something with some residency director at a program you want, and if you get it, dump the DO match. Can't you?


Tim of New York City.

 

[UHS2002]

Tim,

you are right, DO students do not have to partecipate in the MD match, although many end up doing so because of the limited number of osteopathic residency programs.

As for the rest of the info, it is a known rumor/fact that many people "work things out with the residency director at osteopathic programs outside the match". That applies to osteopathic programs, though, and I haven't heard it happening to DO students at allopathic programs. In any case, it is not legal in either match. I have heard it goes something like this: you go to an interview and then they tell you if you are ready to accept an offer from them on the spot. Apparently, some people have gotten burned by doing so because, unless you have a signed contract in hand, the program can withdraw their offer at any time.

You cannot match DO and then "dump" that program if you get into an ACGME program later. It is a big "no-no" and your original program can go after you for breach of contract. They know they "won't be squeezing blood out of a turnip", so to speak, so they can do worse. They can contact the ACGME program and let them know of the situation, so that neither will take you a this point. Very bad form, for you, to say the least...

 

[prefontaine]

Wrong!

An ACGME residency director can offer independent applicants, eg osteopathic students, a position outside of the match.

This is relatively common and I am aware of many DOs in ACGME residencies that acquired positions by this route. Though I received my current position through the match, I received four offers to accept an outside position.

 

[drusso]

Prefontaine is correct. In fact, if a DO applicant is competitive the system can really work for him/her. It is not uncommon for ACGME DME's to be fed up with the whole match process and look to secure a few spots outside of the match.

[This message has been edited by drusso (edited 01-20-2000).]

 

[UHS2002]

I stand corrected then , thanks!

Prefontaine, under which circumstances are these offers made? Are these places you rotated through, during your third or fourth year, or places you contacted and expressed interest in their program?

Why would a medical director want to make offers outside the match? Is it because the program was having trouble finding good applicants through the match or some other reason?

How binding are these offers from the residency program's side? Can you have a contract signed ahead of the match, or you just have to trust them?

I have a very good idea to which programs I want to apply to and now it is a matter of trying to get some of my third and fourth year rotations there. That will also help me rank them in my own mind. So, any info and advice on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

 

[prefontaine]

The circumstances are highly variable. My recommendation, particularly if you are a known entity, is to use the direct approach. Tell them you want to be a part of their program and ask if it is possible to secure a position outside of the match.

All of the offers were following interviews and I did not do rotations at any of them. At the end of a rotation at MSUCOM, the residency director brought the subject up of an outside position, but I ultimately cancelled the interview and did not pursue it. I am not including MSU in the four offers. And I did not particularly express interest in their program(s), but they were looking for good fits. Each program had >2000 applicants for the one to twelve positions and are considered to be competitive to very competitive programs in a specialty that is in the middle range of competiveness.

IMO, you have it backwards about 'trouble finding good applicants'. They are finding very good applicants and they want to secure them.

The answers to your last two questions probably vary with each situation. Personally, I am not aware of anyone being burned by an ACGME residency director, though I have heard unsubstantiated rumors about a few southern programs.

 

[UHS2002]

Prefontaine,

thanks for the info

I didn't mean to imply that the programs that made you offers were not competitive. I was just wondering out loud about the program giving preference to someone who they already knew would be good for their program vs. people applying through the match and perhaps having trouble finding as good candidates through the match (as we all know that things on paper can look better than live...). Your answer confirmed that the residency directors are just trying to get the good graduates before someone else does.

I would be thrilled if one of the programs I am interested in offered me a position outside the match, that would make things a little less stressfull, to say the least. No harm in dreaming!