What is Going On Here?????

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theone1979

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hey guys,
I am confused about an unfortunate "trend" I have been experiencing, and was hoping someone here might have some insight.

I have attended 5 DO interviews so far, and received only 1 acceptance, and 4 waitlists.

My stats are
science gpa: 3.8
cumm gpa: 3.66
MCAT: 27Q

Now obviously it occurred to me that something must be going wrong in my interviews since I am receiving plenty of invites, but then not receiving acceptances after the interview. I thought all of my interviews went very well, but I decided to get in touch with the schools that waitlisted me to get interview feedback to confirm if it was indeed the interview that led to my being waitlisted.

Now what is odd is that each school I spoke with told me that the feedback on my interviews was overwhelmingly positive. Each school said I received extremely high marks for the interviews and there was no "red flags" or concerns mentioned.

So now I am left completely confused. If my application is strong enough to be invited for an interview, and I am having great interviews, why have I received only 1 acceptance and 4 waitlists?

I honestly cannot figure out what's going on here, and aside from being extremely frustrated, I am worried about what is holding schools back from accepting me?

Any ideas?
 
Have you spent a reasonable amount of time shadowing DO's and/or getting a LOR from a DO?

Do you think that maybe the schools think you aren't interested in osteopathic medicine?

Your stats alone seem to be fine, but I'm wondering about your EC's and exposure to osteopathy.
 
Did you ask why you were waitlisted then? 27 is avg and as I'm sure you're aware your GPA is quite a bit above avg. Maybe you didn't sound like you "wanted" it enough in your interviews? No "red flags" would just mean you didn't royally screw yourself.
 
To answer the above questions:
I have spent a good amount of time shadowing a DO and received a great LOR from him.

I ONLY applied to DO schools so there can be no question regarding whether I really want to go DO or not.

I have solid EC;s (tons of patient contact).

And as far as my interview-it wasn't just that schools said I had no red flags. They said my interviews were overwhelmingly positive. They said my scores on the interviews were extremely high. So..assuming they are being honest with me about this-it can't be my interview.

So you can see why I am so confused. Why would I be invited to so many interviews, apparently have a "great interview" and still be waitlisted almost everywhere?
 
To answer the above questions:
I have spent a good amount of time shadowing a DO and received a great LOR from him.

I ONLY applied to DO schools so there can be no question regarding whether I really want to go DO or not.

I have solid EC;s (tons of patient contact).

And as far as my interview-it wasn't just that schools said I had no red flags. They said my interviews were overwhelmingly positive. They said my scores on the interviews were extremely high. So..assuming they are being honest with me about this-it can't be my interview.

So you can see why I am so confused. Why would I be invited to so many interviews, apparently have a "great interview" and still be waitlisted almost everywhere?

It only takes your score/interviews to be lower than the other guys' to not get in. Like I said I would ask the schools "Why waitlist, why not invite?".
 
hey guys,
I am confused about an unfortunate "trend" I have been experiencing, and was hoping someone here might have some insight.

I have attended 5 DO interviews so far, and received only 1 acceptance, and 4 waitlists.

My stats are
science gpa: 3.8
cumm gpa: 3.66
MCAT: 27Q

Now obviously it occurred to me that something must be going wrong in my interviews since I am receiving plenty of invites, but then not receiving acceptances after the interview. I thought all of my interviews went very well, but I decided to get in touch with the schools that waitlisted me to get interview feedback to confirm if it was indeed the interview that led to my being waitlisted.

Now what is odd is that each school I spoke with told me that the feedback on my interviews was overwhelmingly positive. Each school said I received extremely high marks for the interviews and there was no "red flags" or concerns mentioned.

So now I am left completely confused. If my application is strong enough to be invited for an interview, and I am having great interviews, why have I received only 1 acceptance and 4 waitlists?

I honestly cannot figure out what's going on here, and aside from being extremely frustrated, I am worried about what is holding schools back from accepting me?

Any ideas?



How old are you? (Not meant to be demeaning, age can paly a factor in their decision) Are you changing careers as well?
 
How old are you? (Not meant to be demeaning, age can paly a factor in their decision) Are you changing careers as well?

I'm 31, so yes I am a bit older, but I don't consider it to be prohibitively old.

I graduated back in 2001 and had a career in music and after making the decision to pursue medicine I returned to school about 18 months ago to take my pre-recs, get a lot of healthcare and volunteer experience and take the MCAT.

I really am at a loss about what's going on.
I know I am not the world's strongest applicant, but considering I've been invited to so many interviews and continue to get extremely high marks on my interviews, what is holding me back from being accepted?

I thought it worked like this:
A school reviews your app and if they are interested, they invite you for an interview to get to know you a bit a see if you would be a good match. If the interview goes well, then you have every reason to expect an acceptance.

So why is it not working out this way? Am I wrong about my previous assumption?
 
I'm 31, so yes I am a bit older, but I don't consider it to be prohibitively old.

I graduated back in 2001 and had a career in music and after making the decision to pursue medicine I returned to school about 18 months ago to take my pre-recs, get a lot of healthcare and volunteer experience and take the MCAT.

I really am at a loss about what's going on.
I know I am not the world's strongest applicant, but considering I've been invited to so many interviews and continue to get extremely high marks on my interviews, what is holding me back from being accepted?

I thought it worked like this:
A school reviews your app and if they are interested, they invite you for an interview to get to know you a bit a see if you would be a good match. If the interview goes well, then you have every reason to expect an acceptance.

So why is it not working out this way? Am I wrong about my previous assumption?

When did the majority of your interviews take place? Personally I don't think your age came into play as you're really not on one end of the spectrum or the other.
 
Wow. I'm just as confused as you are. See, this is why pple call it a crapshoot.

Are you applying to schools that cater to instate individuals? When did you submit your application?

On the bright side, congrats on getting an acceptance.
 
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Wow. I'm just as confused as you are. See, this is why pple call it a crapshoot.

Are you applying to schools that cater to instate individuals? When did you submit your application?

On the bright side, congrats on getting an acceptance.

Thanks for the congrats Postal. Hope all is going well with you.

Nope, not applying to schools that give in-state preference (except for UMDNJ-SOM which is MY in-state school and they waitlisted me as well).

I submitted apps a bit late (late sept/early oct), but again, not what I would consider prohibitively late.

Had I not been invited to so many interviews, I wouldn't be so confused. But the fact I've been invited to so many (8 so far), means schools obviously are interested in me. Based on that, you would assume that the reason for my being waitlisted must be my interview, but that's what's so damn confusing.....my consistent high marks on interviews (I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I had 2 schools which waitlisted me tell me that I received "near-perfect scores" for my interview.

So.....what would make all of these schools interested in me enough for an interview, but then waitlist me, if it's not the interview.

Edit: as for when my interviews took place, they have been from mid-nov up until now. I know this is a bit on the late side, but from reading the forum here, I am seeing many (most?) of the people who interviewed with me on those days, were accepted- so obviously the schools weren't out of seats.
 
Thanks for the congrats Postal. Hope all is going well with you.

Nope, not applying to schools that give in-state preference (except for UMDNJ-SOM which is MY in-state school and they waitlisted me as well).

I submitted apps a bit late (late sept/early oct), but again, not what I would consider prohibitively late.

Had I not been invited to so many interviews, I wouldn't be so confused. But the fact I've been invited to so many (8 so far), means schools obviously are interested in me. Based on that, you would assume that the reason for my being waitlisted must be my interview, but that's what's so damn confusing.....my consistent high marks on interviews (I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I had 2 schools which waitlisted me tell me that I received "near-perfect scores" for my interview.

So.....what would make all of these schools interested in me enough for an interview, but then waitlist me, if it's not the interview.

Edit: as for when my interviews took place, they have been from mid-nov up until now. I know this is a bit on the late side, but from reading the forum here, I am seeing many (most?) of the people who interviewed with me on those days, were accepted- so obviously the schools weren't out of seats.

Well, obviously we aren't likely to figure it out, since it's likely a blind spot to you. To find out what is happening, you will probably have to ask the schools. Since they made that decision, they will be able to give you the most accurate feedback. That's better than sitting here and guessing.

Anyway, are you researching this because you are just curious and it is an academic exercise, or is there a particular school you are still wanting to get into versus your current acceptance? Sounds like you are "in like Flynn," regardless. Congratulations. All you need is one.
 
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hey guys,
I am confused about an unfortunate "trend" I have been experiencing, and was hoping someone here might have some insight.

I have attended 5 DO interviews so far, and received only 1 acceptance, and 4 waitlists.

My stats are
science gpa: 3.8
cumm gpa: 3.66
MCAT: 27Q

Now obviously it occurred to me that something must be going wrong in my interviews since I am receiving plenty of invites, but then not receiving acceptances after the interview. I thought all of my interviews went very well, but I decided to get in touch with the schools that waitlisted me to get interview feedback to confirm if it was indeed the interview that led to my being waitlisted.

Now what is odd is that each school I spoke with told me that the feedback on my interviews was overwhelmingly positive. Each school said I received extremely high marks for the interviews and there was no "red flags" or concerns mentioned.

So now I am left completely confused. If my application is strong enough to be invited for an interview, and I am having great interviews, why have I received only 1 acceptance and 4 waitlists?

I honestly cannot figure out what's going on here, and aside from being extremely frustrated, I am worried about what is holding schools back from accepting me?

Any ideas?

What schools wait-listed? you. If you interview late maybe they are filled up already
 
My understanding and assumption, and maybe I am wrong, is that with so many more people interested and applying to both MD and DO schools it has gotten much more competitive. In the past, a 27 and high gpa would have been an almost guarantee to get in to DO schools. My guess is that people with similar or higher scores are competing with you for spots at those schools and while your interview was seemingly great, their's might have been as well.

It is my belief that there are many spill over applicants from allopathic applicants that are now applying to DO schools and that could account for DO schools becoming more selective and competitive. Your application sounds great and congrats on your acceptance! However, you may be underestimating the quality of other applicants at the schools to which you have applied. Last side note, waitlists often have a lot of movement so hold out hope that you have a pretty good chance of getting selected off the waitlist as the interview season comes to an end. Just my thoughts though.
 
You were late. When I applied, I got all my interview invites (well, all but one) by mid-September. By October 1 I had an acceptance in hand.

EARLY IS KEY.
 
Your numbers are very competetive. I suspect a "red flag" is in one of your LORs. They can be lethal.

What exactly constitutes a bad LOR that would be a red flag though? Like a LOR that blatantly says something negative about an applicant, or a generic one that says very little specifics?
 
What exactly constitutes a bad LOR that would be a red flag though? Like a LOR that blatantly says something negative about an applicant, or a generic one that says very little specifics?

Both are bad. the former points out some flaw you might have, whereas the latter demonstrates a lack of commitment to whatever activity your letter writer oversaw.
 
Both are bad. the former points out some flaw you might have, whereas the latter demonstrates a lack of commitment to whatever activity your letter writer oversaw.

Other than speculation, what actual evidence does anyone have that says these letters can be "lethal" though, especially since nobody is supposed to see their letters? This just seems like such a small part of the entire application when you consider components such as grades, MCAT, research, extracurriculars, leadership, clinical experience, shadowing, etc. but it is being weighted so heavily in terms of success or failure.

The way it's talked about on here, it's almost like if you get unlucky enough to have a generic letter made for you, you are pretty much screwed and should consider going to the Caribbean.
 
RELAX OP, at least you have ONE acceptance and I believe you will have more than that. Enjoy getting interviews because others don't even get that!
 
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Other than speculation, what actual evidence does anyone have that says these letters can be "lethal" though, especially since nobody is supposed to see their letters? This just seems like such a small part of the entire application when you consider components such as grades, MCAT, research, extracurriculars, leadership, clinical experience, shadowing, etc. but it is being weighted so heavily in terms of success or failure.

The way it's talked about on here, it's almost like if you get unlucky enough to have a generic letter made for you, you are pretty much screwed and should consider going to the Caribbean.

Hyperbolic, but I see your point.

The reason letters are so heavily weighted in terms of medical school admission is the same reason professional references are weighted so heavily when applying for jobs. Having worked in HR for a number of years, I can tell you that resumes are often not very telling when it comes to examining who a person is.

The same is true for medical school statistics such as MCAT score, grades, etc. Everyone paints themselves up to look slightly better than they actually are on paper (and you'd better believe the adcoms know it), but references can oftentimes help paint a picture of what a person is actually like. This is why there are interviews as well. Just because you're qualified doesn't mean you're a good fit for a program.
 
I have a friend who has a 39R, 3.85 GPA, excellent patient contact, has survived colon cancer (lost his father and brother to colon cancer), and applied late. It's almost the end of Jan and he's only heard crickets... not even an interview offer... he may still make it since his numbers are good, but in reality, he knew he was risking it by applying late
 


What is that all about?
Do you disagree with her?

I obviously agree with her, and wish I could have applied early, but it wasn't possible in my case.

I graduated many years ago but had to go back to school to fulfill amm my pre-recs in order to prepare for, and apply to med school.

Due to my age, I wanted to apply as soon as possible, so I got all pre-recs completed in 1 year (with the exception of orgo).

So I needed the summer to teach myself orgo and prepare for the MCAT and was thus unable to take the MCAT until August, which made my application incomplete until my scores came in in Sept.

I absolutely agree that I would be experiencing more acceptances if I got my application in earlier, but as I explained, it was not possible in my case, and by taking the route I did, I was able to shave a year off of the typical pre-med route.

Still, it's not as though my interviews were THAT late-most have been between November through Jan.

There are still plenty of seats available at most schools so I'm left confused regarding why I've had so many interviews and only 1 outright acceptance despite the fact that I have been ensured that my interviews were extremely strong.

Obviously I need remind myself to be grateful that I have received an acceptance and so many interview invites-I know many people are less fortunate.
 
I obviously agree with her, and wish I could have applied early, but it wasn't possible in my case.

Sometimes, it's just a total crapshoot and there's nothing you can do about it. I have a friend who made it into a top ten MD school but was rejected from every other one they applied to. Some schools didn't bother to get back to me for months after I submitted the secondary but I got into them after an interview with no problem. Other schools that gave me interview offers as soon as I turned in the secondary waitlisted me. Totally random.

It's an unfortunate characteristic of the medical school application game, but we all have to play it.

You should also note that waitlists aren't all bad. I got into every school I was waitlisted at. FYI, the offers to get off of the waitlists all came after April.
 
qft = agree.

The reason early is so good is med schools haven't seen so many outstanding applicants yet. If you shine early when only a few applicants are in the mix, you are more likely to get an acceptance. IF you apply late, interview late, you are then just one more shiny penny in an entire bin full of brand new shiny pennies. Just one more.

Perhaps you did not wish to avoid applying late, but the bottom line is you likely haven't received many acceptances at this point because you're just one more shiny penny out of hundreds the adcom has seen this year. Y'all start blending together - y'all start saying the same things, dressing the same way, etc. And as different as you think you may be (and perhaps you really are), everyone thinks they're different. Everyone thinks they are unique. Everyone has something. Very few are really truly outstandingly memorably unique. Very few. This is why early is so important. Yes, you looked good enough to invite, but you're not top of the 300, 400 other people who have been the top 3% of their classes either. Just another shiny penny.
 
qft = agree.

The reason early is so good is med schools haven't seen so many outstanding applicants yet. If you shine early when only a few applicants are in the mix, you are more likely to get an acceptance. IF you apply late, interview late, you are then just one more shiny penny in an entire bin full of brand new shiny pennies. Just one more.

Perhaps you did not wish to avoid applying late, but the bottom line is you likely haven't received many acceptances at this point because you're just one more shiny penny out of hundreds the adcom has seen this year. Y'all start blending together - y'all start saying the same things, dressing the same way, etc. And as different as you think you may be (and perhaps you really are), everyone thinks they're different. Everyone thinks they are unique. Everyone has something. Very few are really truly outstandingly memorably unique. Very few. This is why early is so important. Yes, you looked good enough to invite, but you're not top of the 300, 400 other people who have been the top 3% of their classes either. Just another shiny penny.


I just have to admit that in all the years I have been active in forums, I always thought QFT meant "Quit Effing Talking".....

How embarrassing. All this time it has meant the EXACT opposite of what I thought. Well, that clears up the many times I have read someone write "QFT" and have been baffled about how they could have possibly disagreed with the quote.

Sometimes I'm a dumb shiny penny.
 
What exactly constitutes a bad LOR that would be a red flag though? Like a LOR that blatantly says something negative about an applicant, or a generic one that says very little specifics?

If a LOR writes something blatantly negative about the candidate, that catches our eye. They are, however, rare. I only see one maybe once a year. LORs that are low on specifics we just ignore.
 
Other than speculation, what actual evidence does anyone have that says these letters can be "lethal" though, especially since nobody is supposed to see their letters? This just seems like such a small part of the entire application when you consider components such as grades, MCAT, research, extracurriculars, leadership, clinical experience, shadowing, etc. but it is being weighted so heavily in terms of success or failure.
QUOTE]

As an AdCom member for the past 7 years or so, I'm telling you that a "red flag" letter is indeed lethal. For example, one writer wrote that the applicant complained about having to be part of a team where the others had X flaw. This tells us that the applicant was not a team player. Another example was one from a Pre-Med committee that only gave a "Recommended" [ie., a 3/5] as opposed to nearly everyone else, who gets a "Exceptionally recommended" [i.e. 5/5], then mentions something like "we're concerned about ____".

THAT gets our attention. it's so rare that it stands out, and makes us think "why should we risk giving a seat to a person like this when there are so many other stellar candidates.

Short generic LORs (I recommend Joe Smitl he's a nice guy") aren't lethal because it means that the candidate had the bad luck to pick a lazy writer, or just the wrong person. I'd rule out a lack of committment on behalf of the applicant in a situation like this.
 
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I just have to admit that in all the years I have been active in forums, I always thought QFT meant "Quit Effing Talking".....

How embarrassing. All this time it has meant the EXACT opposite of what I thought. Well, that clears up the many times I have read someone write "QFT" and have been baffled about how they could have possibly disagreed with the quote.

Sometimes I'm a dumb shiny penny.

FYI: if you google search QFT the first thing that shows up is "Quoted For Truth". The second is Quantum Field Theory and then Quantum Fourier Transformations. Not sure where you got the quit talkin' thing..... sometimes a search is a really good idea if you are unclear as to a concept or abbreviation. It will help you immensely when it comes to all those ridiculous acronyms used in medical charts.
 
On a positive note, Congratulations on getting into a school.
 
On a positive note, Congratulations on getting into a school.


Thanks so much!!

Yes, obviously I am thrilled about having an acceptance, and also feel good about my chances at a few other schools since I am on several "high waitlists".

I can see that my thread could come off a bit "whiny" since I HAVE been accepted and am basically complaining that I haven't received more acceptances.

Still, I am just trying to figure out why someone would be invited to so many interviews but only receive 1 outright acceptance when the interview is not the issue. I agree that my somewhat late interviews must be playing a large role.

I will be hearing a decision from UNECOM early this week and REALLY am hoping for an acceptance since I loved the school so much.

And Rem-I agree that a simple google search would have provided me with the correct definition of "QFT", but the problem is that I always thought I knew what it stood for, so it never occurred to me to look it up.

It's not as though I saw the abbreviation, didn't know what it meant, and didn't bother to look it up. For whatever reason, I had been certain that it stood for "Quit F...king Talking" so I never thought to look it up.

Also, I did end up googling "QFT" earlier today and on urban dictionary it states that QFT can mean "Quoted for truth" and ALSO "Quit F....king Talking", so I obviously I must have picked it up somewhere.
 
Dude, applying to medical school (osteopathic or allopathic) is becoming more and more a crap shoot. This is why people apply to 20+ schools, because the difference between acceptance, waitlist, and decline can often be something completely out of your control. Having good stats gives you a better CHANCE but no guarantees.

As others said, turning in the primary as soon as it opens and getting secondaries off by end of July, early August makes a big difference. If you are interviewing in September when a school has all of its spots open it makes them WAY more likely to give you an acceptance rather than a waitlist.
 
Sorry, I didn't intend to confuse with my use of "QFT." I simply implemented what I felt was a context appropriate abbreviation, acknowledging my agreement with ShyRem and reiterating what I felt was a critical point.

There are still plenty of seats available at most schools so I'm left confused regarding why I've had so many interviews and only 1 outright acceptance despite the fact that I have been ensured that my interviews were extremely strong.

Well, I cannot agree that there are plenty of seats available, since I have no data to confirm or deny your statement. My thought is that it is pretty late in the game, though. In this game, the "early bird" gets the proverbial "worm." An applicant's chances diminish as the application season moves on, in some cases dramatically. I applied late and it certainly impacted the results. Nevertheless, I ended up with two choices, thankfully.

It's good to have choice, and I hope that you do, but keep in mind, all it takes is one, and sometimes that's all you'll get. As one of my favorite rock bands, The Rolling Stones, said, ever-so-wisely (for a rock band), "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need." In this game of medical school admissions, less than one out of two applicants get accepted. You know, your one acceptance is a BIG DEAL, in that light.

And, it's not like you are getting outright rejected, you are getting placed on the waitlist. I have no idea why that's happening for you, but if I had to guess, applying late has a lot to do with it. Also, we don't have the whole story here and there's no way for you to give us that, short of debriefing you in person. You gave us statistics, which, granted are pretty good, but they aren't that exceptional, actually. KCUMB's Class of 2013 had an average MCAT score of 27 and an overall GPA of 3.63. While your science GPA is above average, your other statistics aren't too far from average, no? We all think highly of ourselves, but as you will see, EVERYONE who makes it into medical school is exceptional! By applying and interviewing late, you are as ShyRem stated, and I paraphrase, "One shiny penny among a dozen." Yes, your interview was good, but so were the other dozen. That's probably why you are on the waitlist of several of your interviews.

Anyway, good luck with the rest of the process and I hope that you DO get what you want. 😉
 
Hey guys
Thanks for all the responses.

I also wanted to update everyone that I just received an acceptance from UNECOM today!!

I loved UNECOM so I am thrilled to have been accepted.

This acceptance has made me feel better about the string of waitlists I received.
As I mentioned earlier, up until today I had 1 accetpance from Touro-NV, and 5 waitlists.
So this UNECOM acceptance has changed my outlook quite a bit and more importantly, I love the school so am thrilled I have the opportunity to attend.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in here, and to those still waiting on acceptances, good luck to you- I know how brutal the waiting can be.
 
Hey guys
Thanks for all the responses.

I also wanted to update everyone that I just received an acceptance from UNECOM today!!

I loved UNECOM so I am thrilled to have been accepted.

This acceptance has made me feel better about the string of waitlists I received.
As I mentioned earlier, up until today I had 1 accetpance from Touro-NV, and 5 waitlists.
So this UNECOM acceptance has changed my outlook quite a bit and more importantly, I love the school so am thrilled I have the opportunity to attend.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in here, and to those still waiting on acceptances, good luck to you- I know how brutal the waiting can be.


Congrats man!! UNECOM is an amazing school, I'm hoping to end up there myself!!
 
Congrats on ur acceptances. Waitlist is the next best thing to being accepted so there's always hope. I'm not sure when the deadline for dropping multiple acceptances is for DO schs but there's a ton of waitlist movement after that.
Last cycle i had 1/2 of my acceptances in december and the other half in the the summer (may/june). All my waitlists turned into acceptances, so again being waitlisted isn't necessarily a bad thing.

gd luck
 
Firs off, congratulations OP on the acceptances and waitlists... a lot of people would kill to be in your shoes.

Second, I don't think you applied late. Considering the fact that DO schools take apps up to Feb. or even March, a Sept. submission is fine for you with your stats (not just the GPA/MCAT, but your overall stats). I applied at the same time and got in to UMDNJ SOM and PCOM (only 2 schools I applied to).

If you received invites that means they want you and just have to see the type of person you are, so my guess is that you were waitlisted because of the interview. Remember, everyone you meet on the day of the interview is involved from the environmental services people cleaning up to the secretary behind the desk that greets you when you walk in. If any of them get an off feeling about you they can go straight to a dept. head or dean and say something about you.

With that said I have two questions. 1. Do you have a relationship with anyone in the admissions offices? If the people in admissions can put a face to an application it helps them make the decision ahead of time. Try to plan a face to face meeting with someone in you #1 school to go over your app and talk about what you can do to ensure an acceptance. 2. How professional were you? The interview is like a poker game. The slightest tell in your mannerisms can be the difference between acceptance and rejection. On one of my interviews an older gentleman (not picking on you) showed up in a fleece pullover and LL Bean hiking boots (Safe to say he probably won't be there in August)

My suggestion to you is to just enjoy your acceptances and try to reach out to those that waitlisted you and ask how you can improve so when you interview for residencies you will be a lock for the position.
 
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