What is more respected a PhD or MD?

[stud247]

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Respected by whom? It is more difficult to get a tenure faculty position at a solid school than to get a m.d. You'd have to get your ph.d. at a top school and then work as a postdoc and "excel" before even getting an assistant prof position at which you would also have to impress someone.

But if the object you want to impress is a woman, I think whoever makes more $$ is more impressive.

 

[physiologyguy]

I will go ahead and throw in my two-cents since I've had experience with/around both:

They are both terminal degrees (easy place to start).

(For the time being, I am going to refer to "PhD" as biomedical/lab PhD's)

A PhD is supposed to require a level of expertise/knowledge on some subject area (physiology, chemistry, etc) AND a novel contribution to the feild via original research. An MD is technically a clinical degree, and does NOT require a novel contribution. Historically, the PhD was thus considered the "higher" degree and if someone had both was listed last (degrees are historically listed with highest degree last).

However, in the states, PhD program quality varies widely based on what lab you work in/for whom you work. While school may matter some, the quality of your degree is generally judged by whom you worked for (which translates to "research schools" usually having many more top reearchers). Further, in the states Medical School quality does not vary all that much. That is, the up-front selection of MD students assures that these students are the top of the top. Thus, in the states the MD is seen as "more prestigious" because it shows that you are part of a select, intelligent group. The PhD per se does not say that.

Also, MD's in that states are being required more and more to participate in research. Many will then do research during their residency/fellowship. To further complicate things, many other parts of the world do a 4-6 year MD program straight out of HS. Many of these places would view a PhD as "higher" than an MD simply because it is an expertise in one area that took lots of training post-college. Just a different system.

And yes, I am a PhD (physiology) who is going to medical school this fall. And yes, I cringe if anyone calls me "Dr." in a clinical setting because it is TERRIBLY misleading. So you may hear PhD's tell you that "Dr." really means teacher (which is true) and thus they are very deserving of that title. But practically, I think most would agree that in the states "Dr." in a clinical setting has come to mean "Medical Doctor". It is even more confusing now becaue other health professionals are getting Doctoral degrees and introducing themselves as "Dr." in the clinic. For example, Doctor of Occupational/Physical Therapy, Nurses with PhD's, MD students with PhD's, etc. If you are in an academic setting, these people may introduce themselves as Dr and this seems quite appropriate. However, it seems misleading in the clinical setting. It has nothing to do with whether you are qualified or deserve the title, but rather it has to do with leading the patient to believe you are a medical Dr. (you are not), in which case they may want you to advise them on issues in which you have no training (practicing medicine without a license = illegal).

Interesting topic as more and more people enter the clinic with "doctoral" degrees of different sorts.

 

[191159]

WHO THE **** CARES?????????? A ton of people in this god damn country don't even graduate high school, let ALONE achieve any form of higher education. You're seriously going to sit here and figure out exactly what degree will get you precisely the most respect and honor in society??? Which will make mommy and daddy more proud?? Which one will get you that noble prize easier??? Which one sounds better at the cocktail party??? Looks better on the white coat??? Jesus Christ. Get some perspective in life. Go dig ditches out in the sun for 12 hours a day at 8 bucks a ****ing hour and then reevaluate your question.

QFT. Anyone who's getting their MD for purposes of "respect" is a giant tool, and no "like omg stop lying you want the respects!@!" doesn't apply to everyone. If I had the time I'd recreate drizzt's smiley face mural titled "FAIL".

 

[drcarter77]

i would say people who have been educated at a university know that a PhD is a joke to get, but i think a lot of the general public thinks that a PhD is more impressive

 

[Myuu]

QFT. Anyone who's getting their MD for purposes of "respect" is a giant tool, and no "like omg stop lying you want the respects!@!" doesn't apply to everyone. If I had the time I'd recreate drizzt's smiley face mural titled "FAIL".

You can't, because it exceeds the emoticon limit.

 

[TexasPhysician]

However, in the states, PhD program quality varies widely based on what lab you work in/for whom you work. While school may matter some, the quality of your degree is generally judged by whom you worked for (which translates to "research schools" usually having many more top reearchers). Further, in the states Medical School quality does not vary all that much. That is, the up-front selection of MD students assures that these students are the top of the top. Thus, in the states the MD is seen as "more prestigious" because it shows that you are part of a select, intelligent group. The PhD per se does not say that.

Exactly right. PhD programs are numerous here in the US. I know PhD programs from well respected schools that seriously can't get enough applicants for the # of spots. Positions are being left wide open or the schools are recruiting students from other countries.

This is not the case with an MD degree and 1 reason why it is more respected.

 

[sirius08]

As someone with a Ph.D. who will be matriculating in an M.D. program this fall, I just have to say that this question is so truly meaningless. Both kinds of programs demand a lot of work and dedication, and to get through either is a great achievement. As for Ph.D. programs being "less competitive", that really depends on the degree and the program. At my university and in my program, less than 5% of applicants were accepted - which is on par with, if not more competitive than, M.D. programs.

"Respect" is in the eyes of the beholder. Finding a path should not be a matter of what posters on an anonymous message board think of your choice.

 

[dr zaius]

i would say people who have been educated at a university know that a PhD is a joke to get, but i think a lot of the general public thinks that a PhD is more impressive

I certainly hope you're trolling.

 

[dr zaius]

.

 

[binko]

lets not get crazy, now.

MD/JDs just fly around testifying in court, right?

My mom almost did this (MD/JD, not flying around). After law school/passing the bar she took the MCAT and did really well, was competitive at the school she wanted (Mayo), but then my dad's job moved us to Arizona and she dropped that idea.

Also I think it's pretty funny that a bunch of kids with a bachelor's at most are crapping all over higher degrees.

 

[orrghead16]

This thread reminds me of the #1 reason why I don't answer "Med school" or "Physician" or "pre-med" when asked what I want to do with my life. Instead it is always "I want to be a scientist" or "do research" or "go to grad school." And if they force it out of me that I am in these pre-med classes or "why not a doctor?" then I always respond "I don't even really want to go to medical school, I just gotta for this MD/PhD deal..."

It is a standard SDN philosophy that MD>>>>>than everything else in life. Than happiness, their own ego, you name it. Pre-meds want pitty for the "hard" classes they have to take, respect for applying to medical school, points for having high GPAs, and everything that doesn't pertain to or is less than that is absolutely meaningless. 99% of pre-meds have no idea what the free world--or other side--is like. Asking this question to a board of egotistical pre-meds is like asking an American citizen (or politican) how the wars in the Middle East are going.

Frankly, I just don't want to be labeled as that. My hope is that med-school is somewhat revealing for pre-meds. It would be awesome if this kind of BS vanished after M1. I guess I will keep believing that.

 

[orrghead16]

Also I think it's pretty funny that a bunch of kids with a bachelor's at most are crapping all over higher degrees.

 

[135892]

The results of the poll are quite disappointing, although of course, not unexpected.

 

[Kaustikos]

i would say people who have been educated at a university know that a PhD is a joke to get, but i think a lot of the general public thinks that a PhD is more impressive

Trolling troll is obvious. Way to show your obvious ignorance and misinformation.

 

[Kaustikos]

PhD...

you could be a paleontologist and fight dinosaurs all day and that would be awesome.

or you could be a mathematician and fight dinosaurs all day and that would be dinosaurs all day, still awesome.

If you want to be a MD and fight dinosaurs, you need special ninja training.

Summary. PhDs deserve more respect than MDs b/c PhDs don't need special training to fight dinosaurs, therefore they must all be ninjas all ready.

I think I love you....in a totally nonhomosexual way.
dr. mcninja ftw

 

[LittleRocker]

LOL I think this poll might be slightly biased....

 

[Suenya]

What a stupid topic...

Anyway, there is more range in PhD program difficulty than in MD program difficulty, and the difficulty ranges both above and below that of an MD. This is also true about selectivity of programs.

Or, perhaps I am just teasing. I mean, we all know that getting a PhD is easier than taking premed classes! Right guys? 🙄

 

[Siverhideo1985]

Summary of thread:

"a) 'Tis is a stupid question to ask, absolutely horrible. But, instead of boycotting this stupid stupid thread, I will post my opinion anyways, but really just to state how stupid this question is....and to give my opinion on this (ridiculously stupid) matter"

"b) MD - less variable - tough admissions - well respected, cept by ER frequent fliers or people who go on the internet for medical advice"

"c) PhD - highly variable - fairly easy to nearly impossible admissions - usually well respected, but not as "special" as an MD (~15,000 MD admissions to ~40,000 PhDs)"

Blargh...

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm a medical student taking a year off to do a research fellowship and I can tell you from EXPERIENCE that basic science research is fundamentally more challenging that going through medical school. The depth at which a PhD student is required to delve into his/her thesis is much greater than medical school (essentially a survey of medicine). The majority of MD/PhD students will tell you their graduate schooling is more difficult than the medical school curriculum.

Granted getting into some lousy graduate school for PhD might be easier than getting into medical school, but producing a quality thesis is certainly harder than medical school.

Dude (or chick), almost anybody on here with a 3.0 gpa could get into a program to pursue their PhD. Can you say the same for MD? **** no. And the quality of a thesis doesn't matter, you just have to make it "sufficient". Also, PhD candidates can take their sweet time, most at my school are here for 5+ years, I think it's mostly laziness.

I'm sure most of us have had research mentors that were pursuing their PhD's. Seriously, those guys are FAR less stressed than the MD students, at least at my school. Most semesters they aren't taking courses, and when they are it's only 1 or 2. I'm sure they have plenty of pain in the azz nonsense to do like writing proposals but the work they have to put in and the difficulty of being accepted into their program is much MUCH lower than it is for an MD program.

 

[dr zaius]

Dude (or chick), almost anybody on here with a 3.0 gpa could get into a program to pursue their PhD. Can you say the same for MD? **** no. (1)And the quality of a thesis doesn't matter, you just have to make it "sufficient". Also, PhD candidates can take their sweet time, most at my school are here for 5+ years, (2)I think it's mostly laziness.

I'm sure most of us have had research mentors that were pursuing their PhD's. Seriously, those guys are FAR less stressed than the MD students, at least at my school. Most semesters they aren't taking courses, and when they are it's only 1 or 2. I'm sure they have plenty of pain in the azz nonsense to do like writing proposals but (3)the work they have to put in and the difficulty of being accepted into their program is much MUCH lower than it is for an MD program.

(1) Quality of the thesis doesn't matter? Seriously? Maybe at Liberty University, but not at any school that's serious about research. They have strict standards, and a public defense is held. The work has to be publishable.

(2) You've apparently never taken part in any serious research experience. Things happen that no one can foresee, and this can increase the amount of time it takes to graduate. Some might be lazy, but I would definitely not say most.

(3) Coursework, sure, but that's it. It takes a great deal of work to get a project from the brainstorming phase to data collection/analysis and writeup. For just a MS I'm in the lab 7 days a week usually trying to finish things.

 

[Suenya]

Dude (or chick), almost anybody on here with a 3.0 gpa could get into a program to pursue their PhD. Can you say the same for MD? **** no. And the quality of a thesis doesn't matter, you just have to make it "sufficient". Also, PhD candidates can take their sweet time, most at my school are here for 5+ years, I think it's mostly laziness.

I'm sure most of us have had research mentors that were pursuing their PhD's. Seriously, those guys are FAR less stressed than the MD students, at least at my school. Most semesters they aren't taking courses, and when they are it's only 1 or 2. I'm sure they have plenty of pain in the azz nonsense to do like writing proposals but the work they have to put in and the difficulty of being accepted into their program is much MUCH lower than it is for an MD program.

Quality satire

 

[drizzt3117]

You can't, because it exceeds the emoticon limit.

🙂

 

[dragonfly99]

That's awesome! How the heck did you do that?

 

[drizzt3117]

That's awesome! How the heck did you do that?

I just invited some of my fellow smilies over for a party 🙂

 

[virusgirl]

Dude (or chick), almost anybody on here with a 3.0 gpa could get into a program to pursue their PhD. Can you say the same for MD? **** no. And the quality of a thesis doesn't matter, you just have to make it "sufficient". Also, PhD candidates can take their sweet time, most at my school are here for 5+ years, I think it's mostly laziness.

I'm sure most of us have had research mentors that were pursuing their PhD's. Seriously, those guys are FAR less stressed than the MD students, at least at my school. Most semesters they aren't taking courses, and when they are it's only 1 or 2. I'm sure they have plenty of pain in the azz nonsense to do like writing proposals but the work they have to put in and the difficulty of being accepted into their program is much MUCH lower than it is for an MD program.

I agree that getting INTO a PhD program is easier than getting into medical school, but you are flat-out wrong in regards to your earlier assertion that basically anyone can get a PhD. Doing quality research is extraordinarily hard, and even the didactic coursework that PhD students take is very challenging. I'm not a medical student yet, but I hear that med school courses are difficult in terms of volume of material, but I assure you that grad school coursework is conceptually difficult.

They are not "taking their sweet time," and 5+ years is not the result of laziness. It takes that long because a "sufficient" work isn't good enough, and it takes that long to do excellent science. People who can't do this are definitely handed their metaphorical hat, which is why attrition is sometimes fairly high.

I have been to grad school, and it is no cakewalk. I don't know where you are getting your information, but it clearly isn't based on any real experience on your part. Try GOING to grad school before complaining about how easy the grad students have it.

 

[DeadCactus]

Neither. The guy with no college diploma who just ran with creativity and determination and didn't need to fit into some pre-made mold to help more people than 99% of all MDs and PhDs is impressive. If you're relying on your degree to make your life significant, you've already failed...

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

(1) Quality of the thesis doesn't matter? Seriously? Maybe at Liberty University, but not at any school that's serious about research. They have strict standards, and a public defense is held. The work has to be publishable.

(2) You've apparently never taken part in any serious research experience. Things happen that no one can foresee, and this can increase the amount of time it takes to graduate. Some might be lazy, but I would definitely not say most.

(3) Coursework, sure, but that's it. It takes a great deal of work to get a project from the brainstorming phase to data collection/analysis and writeup. For just a MS I'm in the lab 7 days a week usually trying to finish things.

1) I'm saying the quality doesn't matter as long as it is sufficient to get your PhD. It doesn't have to be some great science altering thesis.

2) yes, i've experienced such delays. I've also noticed that most of the PhD students in the lab are very lackadaisical, I didn't meet any with the same psychotic motivation that most pre-med students have.

 

[bakanoisha]

Okay, I admit that the OPs question is pretty silly and relatively meaningless. But, it's also kind of funny how people have failed to address the actual question 😀 Personally, I don't care what people think about my profession. But, I feel obligated to add this info just for accuracy.

The OP asked "which is more respected, MD or PhD?" The implication is that he wants to know, for some silly reason, which one the average joe schmoe and sally sue will hold in higher esteem. Survey's have been conducted on this topic and, deserved or not, healthcare professionals are at the top of the list as far as respect goes. Here is a recent list created from a New Zealand survey: LINK


Doctors topped the most respected list. They were closely followed by:

• Nurse
• Teacher**
• Firefighter
• Ambulance driver
• Soldier
• Scientist [**i.e. Ph.D; BTW, #7 isn't bad, especially if you consider you can sort of add teachers at 3 + 7 and make it like #2.5 <-- like that math?]
• Police officer
• Caregiver

This thread may be an example of pre-med bias given it's constituents, but in this case it just so happens to parallel public opinion. So, I'd suggest we chill on the heated debate over a settled/proven issue because it's frankly quite meaningless.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

I agree that getting INTO a PhD program is easier than getting into medical school, but you are flat-out wrong in regards to your earlier assertion that basically anyone can get a PhD. Doing quality research is extraordinarily hard, and even the didactic coursework that PhD students take is very challenging. I'm not a medical student yet, but I hear that med school courses are difficult in terms of volume of material, but I assure you that grad school coursework is conceptually difficult.

They are not "taking their sweet time," and 5+ years is not the result of laziness. It takes that long because a "sufficient" work isn't good enough, and it takes that long to do excellent science. People who can't do this are definitely handed their metaphorical hat, which is why attrition is sometimes fairly high.

I have been to grad school, and it is no cakewalk. I don't know where you are getting your information, but it clearly isn't based on any real experience on your part. Try GOING to grad school before complaining about how easy the grad students have it.

Its easier to get into a PhD program, we agree on that.

Do you honestly believe that the work required to get your PhD is harder than getting your MD?

Oh, and I'm not saying getting your PhD is an absolute cake walk, I'm saying it's easier than getting your MD.

 

[drizzt3117]

Do you honestly believe that the work required to get your PhD is harder than getting your MD?

I think PhD is harder, personally. I have a lot of research experience and a MS as well as being a current med student so I have a pretty good idea of how the two compare in terms of difficulty.

Med school is harder to get into, but is much more structured than PhD. I think it's substantially more difficult to succeed as a PhD. Just look at the attrition rate among PhD candidates as opposed to to MD candidates. Med students have to work hard but I wouldn't say that our coursework is conceptually challenging.

 

[Studoc20]

Its more difficult to earn an MD. Can we stop the elitist crap please. Both do services to humanity

 

[sirius08]

Just look at the attrition rate among PhD candidates as opposed to to MD candidates. Med students have to work hard but I wouldn't say that our coursework is conceptually challenging.

Agreed. A Ph.D. in any field requires sustained, independent thought and research. The skills of critical analysis required for a doctorate are very different from the problem-solving techniques and convergent thinking that are characteristic of much of medicine. I even had an MD interviewer (a neurosurgeon at a teaching hospital) who was leaving medicine to pursue a Ph.D. because he didn't feel that he was being intellectually challenged (he tried to tell me not to go into medicine, lol). I'm not saying his case is typical, but it does give some perspective on how the two types of training differ.

 

[Suenya]

Clinical Psych PhD programs are harder to get into than MD programs (not just in terms of % accepted, although I think Yale clinical PhD is roughly the same as Harvard MD, but in terms of the quality of applicants. There is a much higher proportion of what I would consider lower-quality applicants to MD programs than Clinical PhDs. Seriously.)

 

[orrghead16]

Do you honestly believe that the work required to get your PhD is harder than getting your MD?

Easily. Although it is comparing apples to oranges, completely. Medical school you have someone behind you to give you a smack on the ***** to get you through course work. PhD you are kind of just out there on your own. And that is the exact point. Both programs teach you to think in vastly different ways.

Are courses WAY harder in medical school? For sure. But PhD programs teach you to think at a much higher analytical level and require utter amounts of failure, amounts that would put medical students to tears. One is a boxed path set for you, one is some crazy maze you have to find out for yourself. I can guarantee if the systems made doctors the way they make PhDs, I would be scared as sht being a patient. And putting PhDs through a system similar to medical school would turn out subpar scientists.

 

[BlueElmo]

drizzt, that's crazy. I just stared at those emoticons hypnotized for 5 minutes straight. Thanks a lot.

 

[sacrament]

Its easier to get into a PhD program, we agree on that.

Do you honestly believe that the work required to get your PhD is harder than getting your MD?

Oh, and I'm not saying getting your PhD is an absolute cake walk, I'm saying it's easier than getting your MD.

Acquiring my MS (not even PhD) in chemical engineering was an order of magnitude more difficult than medical school. You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

Acquiring my MS (not even PhD) in chemical engineering was an order of magnitude more difficult than medical school. You have no idea what you're talking about.

lol and your post is only anecdotal and you didn't do a PhD...get off your high horse.

Fact is, most of us have not done either (MD or PhD) and therefore our opinions are pretty worthless.

Plus, how "hard" or "prestigious" something is, is totally up to the individual person's perception...

Geez...its like arguing about taste.

Swiss cheese tastes better than colby jack, ergo PhD's are harder to do but MD's are more prestigious. q.e.d.

 

[WannaBeMD89]

I'm gonna have to go with MD. Way more schooling and training than a PhD, but that is just my own opinion. 😀

 

[bakanoisha]

Acquiring my MS (not even PhD) in chemical engineering was an order of magnitude more difficult than medical school. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Research is most likely very project dependent. I've heard several people with Ph.D's who later pursued MD's say the exact opposite.

It's apples and oranges, really. Silly thread.

 

[BlueElmo]

Love the disparity in the poll results.

 

[witness23]

okay, again, this is silly

both parents are MD/PhDs. they would drop the PhD anyday. they would go back in time to drop it if they could. not because its less respectable, but it is way toooooo competitive and hard to be successful at research. there's a lot of luck, creativity, hard work, selfishness that is required to be good, at anything other than medicine.


once you get an MD you are probably gonna do well..

 

[sacrament]

lol and your post is only anecdotal and you didn't do a PhD...get off your high horse.

As opposed to all the hard evidence elsewhere in this thread.

Fact is, most of us have not done either (MD or PhD) and therefore our opinions are pretty worthless.

Exactly.

 

[Gut Shot]

Fact is, most of us have not done either (MD or PhD) and therefore our opinions are pretty worthless.

I have both. I'm even one of those rare idiots who did them separately.

It really is an apples to oranges comparison. Medical school was like getting repeatedly kicked in the balls, but all you had to do was hold on and let the wave pass over you. Everything is scheduled, finite, and predictable. Yes, it blows, but you can literally count the days until it's over. Also, while studying gets monotonous, the clerkships provided ample variety. Even the worst ones came to an end like clockwork. After it's over, your life is more or less on a set path: residency +/- fellowship then job. Simple.

A PhD based on scientific experimentation is a whole different ballgame. You are essentially set adrift with little more than enough rope to hang yourself with. Your PI can be great or a total dick, your lab can be supportive or backstabbing, and your experiments are almost guaranteed to fail, fail, and fail again before they work. There is no set finish date, just a seemingly endless horizon that will always need one more gel, one more Western, one more PCR. To top it off, there is the constant threat that your work will ultimately just fail, or you'll get scooped, and despite years of toil, in a heartbeat you can literally be left with nothing. All this and then you get to postdoc for five more years, and then you get to fight for one of the scant jobs, and then you're either fighting for funding and tenure or you're in industry and acting as someone's bitch. It's really quite soul crushing.

 

[Wylde]

You are asking pre-meds if an MD or PhD is more well-respected...


Also, you don't do the md/phd program for respect. That would be a terrible idea. Have you done any research? Do you know what a PhD is for?

edit: You also have people expressing near 100% inaccurate information. E.g. people talking about PhD training being shorter (7 year PhD + 3-5 year postdoc), easier (thinking versus memorizing...), etc. Especially when most of the people in this thread (including myself) have never done a PhD or MD.

 

[YeOldeMan]

MD by a long shot. Getting a spot and obtaining a PhD is cake.

At the lower end, maybe, at the top end...not so much.

And OP, I've found that PhDs in hard science...i.e. Physics, Engineering, and Math can be more intimidating than an MD, I don't know about "respected" though.

 

[bakanoisha]

demo igakubu wa uci ni ikundesho? Urayamashiize.

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[londongal]

Interesting responses...and to all the people who said the thread was "silly/stupid". I agree. It was just for the heck of it. We're pre-meds, we can ask stupid Q's now. People need to lighten up 🙂

 

[135892]

Interesting responses...and to all the people who said the thread was "silly/stupid". I agree. It was just for the heck of it. We're pre-meds, we can ask stupid Q's now. People need to lighten up 🙂

Some of the answers were much more stupid than the original question (and that is saying a lot)

 

[YeOldeMan]

I just invited some of my fellow smilies over for a party 🙂

lol...images

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

I think PhD is harder, personally. I have a lot of research experience and a MS as well as being a current med student so I have a pretty good idea of how the two compare in terms of difficulty.

Med school is harder to get into, but is much more structured than PhD. I think it's substantially more difficult to succeed as a PhD. Just look at the attrition rate among PhD candidates as opposed to to MD candidates. Med students have to work hard but I wouldn't say that our coursework is conceptually challenging.

Maybe it's that we have different learning styles, I don't know.

As far as there being a higher attrition rate, of course. No graduate level system in the country has the overall quality of students that medical schools do. If you swapped all the PhD students and MD students into each others program, the drop out rate would follow the PhD students.