What IS the average starting anesthesia salary this moment?

[Pewl]

I was told by my anesthesia colleagues that the typical starting pay in CA is ~$300k and outside of CA is ~$400k (all private practice or physicians groups of course).

Are these figures about accurate, in a broad general view?

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[Arch Guillotti]

I don't think so

 

[Pewl]

I don't think so

In your view, what's a more accurate quote?

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I can't speak as to CA.

I can only speak in generalities. I think that 400K is on the very high end for startign pay. Of course there are jobs out there that pay this sort of money, but I think that they are getting harder to find. I think that jobs like this are located in less than "desirable" places to live. It also makes a big difference if the 400K includes benefits, malpractice, etc. 400K-500K seems pretty good if you are a partner, but I think a lot of groups are not hiring as much and this kind of money is becoming harder to come by that in years past. Of course, I am speaking only in general.

 

[kmurp]

I can't speak to what the going rate is as we haven't been looking for anyone for a few years and have no plans to do so in the future. That said, when we do look, we approach things from our end which is: "what will a new person cost us"?
This cost is the W2, FICA (employer tax), malpractice, health and disability, CME, retirement and a few other minor benefits.
It seems that all that people look at is the W2. The other benefits and costs can approach $90,000 per year easily. Therefore, a new hire at $250,000 W2 per year would cost us around $340,000.
In an all MD practice doing around 9500 units per year per doc at $41 average per unit, that yields about $390,000 in collections. Overhead at 8% is another $30,000, leaving the group with $20,000 in "profit" which will likely be used up paying a departed member their accounts receivable.
Of course, if you are leveraging midlevels extensively, the numbers get better for all involved.

 

[Haole]

I'd say average is about $40 grand. Gettin' paid! Oh wait, you meant after residency...

 

[Sapdaddy]

I can't speak to what the going rate is as we haven't been looking for anyone for a few years and have no plans to do so in the future. That said, when we do look, we approach things from our end which is: "what will a new person cost us"?
This cost is the W2, FICA (employer tax), malpractice, health and disability, CME, retirement and a few other minor benefits.
It seems that all that people look at is the W2. The other benefits and costs can approach $90,000 per year easily. Therefore, a new hire at $250,000 W2 per year would cost us around $340,000.
In an all MD practice doing around 9500 units per year per doc at $41 average per unit, that yields about $390,000 in collections. Overhead at 8% is another $30,000, leaving the group with $20,000 in "profit" which will likely be used up paying a departed member their accounts receivable.
Of course, if you are leveraging midlevels extensively, the numbers get better for all involved.

this might be low-end, but this is what it's like by me...

W2 academic system: new grads BE $225K BC 250K w/ awesome benefits, retirement, 5-6wks vacation, medical, disability, and $ incentive bonuses, very cushy 7-3pm q10 and you'll be at $300K+ in 5yrs.

1099 system: new grads start at $320K, malpractice paid, 10hr days, plus q5-6, 4-6wks vacation. could be $400K but no disability, no tail.

partnership track: $200K start, 3 yrs to partner (must be BC), case-driven, q7, high 300s possible after 3 yrs if you work a ton, and more over time with bonuses.

so nobody is below 200K to start, you can be at around 300K and work 40-hr weeks or you can bust your tail to make 400K. this is for general anes, pain makes more, minimum 300K to start and you could pull 500K+ in PP.

 

[aneftp]

Starting salaries vary from region to region. My cousin started last year as a new attending at an academic medical center. Works 4 days a week plus one REAL non clinical day off. For those who don't know. Some academic centers offer non clinical days off but you are pulled into OR 3/4 times a month on your "non clinical day off".

So she works 4 days, takes call like one in 10. Makes $250K as W2 (I believe 6 weeks plus 1 week paid CME). So her "total package" probably runs around $330-350K. She works around 45-50 hours a week as a junior attending.

Out West, most new grads pull over $300K in Cali but those are 1099 numbers. Than you start subtracting needed (no income while on vacation, health insurance, malpractice). Health insurance for self-employed while single is almost nothing. But if you have a family of 4, it can literally run you close to $10K-12K a year (especially if you are covering a spouse with OB benefits).

Than you have to take into account how much are you working. If you want to kill yourself and work 70 hours a week, go ahead, the sky is almost the limit. But it gets old after a while.

Now if you are finding yourself working more than 60 hours a week for a non partner job paying you less than $250K, than maybe it's time to find a new job.

 

[pgg]

I was told by my anesthesia colleagues that the typical starting pay in CA is ~$300k

CA is big. Geographically, the great majority is very rural and pay in those areas is quite good. (I'm military so I only work in the civilian world part time, but 1099 jobs for new grads out here in the sticks pay $400K+ for what appear to be pretty reasonable schedules.) San Diego is going to be a lot different.

Unfortunately the atrocious state taxes apply whether you're in San Francisco or way the hell up in that corner by the Oregon/Nevada border. Malpractice is dirt cheap though.

 

[Sapdaddy]

[/QUOTE]So she works 4 days, takes call like one in 10. Makes $250K as W2 (I believe 6 weeks plus 1 week paid CME). So her "total package" probably runs around $330-350K. She works around 45-50 hours a week as a junior attending.

Now if you are finding yourself working more than 60 hours a week for a non partner job paying you less than $250K, than maybe it's time to find a new job.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, if you're starting at 250K this is the "base" as BC and you're doing 40hrs/wk, q10, plus get administrative days off, plus get $150/hr for any OT. so, yeah, total package should be north of 300K to start for very comfortable working conditions.

 

[Coastie]

So she works 4 days, takes call like one in 10. Makes $250K as W2 (I believe 6 weeks plus 1 week paid CME). So her "total package" probably runs around $330-350K. She works around 45-50 hours a week as a junior attending.

Now if you are finding yourself working more than 60 hours a week for a non partner job paying you less than $250K, than maybe it's time to find a new job.

Yeah, if you're starting at 250K this is the "base" as BC and you're doing 40hrs/wk, q10, plus get administrative days off, plus get $150/hr for any OT. so, yeah, total package should be north of 300K to start for very comfortable working conditions.

250k q10 40 hrs a week with 150/hr for OT? Dunno about that...

 

[karizma098]

250k q10 40 hrs a week with 150/hr for OT? Dunno about that...

no, that's pretty standard...260k starting bumped up to 290ish ( post board certification ) with a yearly bonus at many midwest academic programs. similar call schedule. 40-45 hours a week.

 

[sevoflurane]

Starting salaries vary from region to region. My cousin started last year as a new attending at an academic medical center. Works 4 days a week plus one REAL non clinical day off. For those who don't know. Some academic centers offer non clinical days off but you are pulled into OR 3/4 times a month on your "non clinical day off".

So she works 4 days, takes call like one in 10. Makes $250K as W2 (I believe 6 weeks plus 1 week paid CME). So her "total package" probably runs around $330-350K. She works around 45-50 hours a week as a junior attending.

Out West, most new grads pull over $300K in Cali but those are 1099 numbers. Than you start subtracting needed (no income while on vacation, health insurance, malpractice). Health insurance for self-employed while single is almost nothing. But if you have a family of 4, it can literally run you close to $10K-12K a year (especially if you are covering a spouse with OB benefits).

Than you have to take into account how much are you working. If you want to kill yourself and work 70 hours a week, go ahead, the sky is almost the limit. But it gets old after a while.

Now if you are finding yourself working more than 60 hours a week for a non partner job paying you less than $250K, than maybe it's time to find a new job.

.

 

[OHMAN0125]

no, that's pretty standard...260k starting bumped up to 290ish ( post board certification ) with a yearly bonus at many midwest academic programs. similar call schedule. 40-45 hours a week.

I dont think talking about hard figures regarding compensation is such a good idea on a public forum in the type of economic environment the US is in right now.

 

[IlDestriero]

I dont think talking about hard figures regarding compensation is such a good idea on a public forum in the type of economic environment the US is in right now.

Physician salaries are not a secret. Most physicians live in nice houses ($$) in nice neighborhoods ($$), drive nice cars ($$) and take nice vacations ($$). The public can't be expected to believe that it must all be family money. Most people that got to "school" for 24-28 years make a good income (for now).

 

[aneftp]

I dont think talking about hard figures regarding compensation is such a good idea on a public forum in the type of economic environment the US is in right now.

I don't think anyone should mention specific medical facilities with pay. I only give general information. I mention "east coast" or "west coast" or "Florida" but I don't mention that hospital on 2nd street in XXX city.

 

[Pilot Doc]

Are these figures about accurate, in a broad general view?

No, mostly because the question is too vague. It's like asking what the average car costs without specifying new vs. used, size, feature, etc.

But, to answer the question, $400K is not the median W2 salary for starting grads outside of California in pvt practice. Nowhere close.

 

[karizma098]

I dont think talking about hard figures regarding compensation is such a good idea on a public forum in the type of economic environment the US is in right now.

yes. because the general public trolls anesthesiology forums and will be enraged to find that a 30 year old with a clinical doctorate degree is making 300k a year. the same as a lawyer or succesfull realestate agent or consultant, and less than most bankers.
oh yeah, and they can't google 'physician salary'.
shhhhhh.

 

[Jeff05]

I dont think talking about hard figures regarding compensation is such a good idea on a public forum in the type of economic environment the US is in right now.

you mean an environment in which hedge fund managers make several BILLION dollars per year...

 

[aneftp]

While most of the public understand physicians in general go through a lot of education (you basically waste your entire 20s in school/residency), they still see that $200K-400K etc as "a lot of money" in terms of income.

It's just human nature.

But the public doesn't comprehend that time is money. My brother is a pharmacist (usually can make $120K/yr for 40 hours/week, $150K and up with OT). He's been out since he was 25 years old. His wife is also a pharmacist.

My brother is 36 now, owns a 1 million dollar home outright (no mortgage). He's been working for 11 years. He's gotten lucky with the tail end of the internet stock market boom and made over $500K profit on his first home during the housing boom.

That's what most of us missed out on if we when we still in school/residency until at least 30 years old. That potential "time factor" to make money.

Lawyers get out when they are 25/26 years old. If they got to a legit school, most private firms in big cities will start them at over $100K. I dated a lawyer during residency who defends medical equipment companies. She went to Emory, and her starting salary for an "associate=non law partner" was $110K in Washington DC. This was in 2004 money. My wife's best friend is a computer consultant. She's only 27 with just a four year college degree and she pulls in over $130K a year.

So there are lots of jobs that pay well with much less education than physician's time/training.

 

[neutro]

While most of the public understand physicians in general go through a lot of education (you basically waste your entire 20s in school/residency), they still see that $200K-400K etc as "a lot of money" in terms of income.

It's just human nature.

But the public doesn't comprehend that time is money. My brother is a pharmacist (usually can make $120K/yr for 40 hours/week, $150K and up with OT). He's been out since he was 25 years old. His wife is also a pharmacist.

My brother is 36 now, owns a 1 million dollar home outright (no mortgage). He's been working for 11 years. He's gotten lucky with the tail end of the internet stock market boom and made over $500K profit on his first home during the housing boom.

That's what most of us missed out on if we when we still in school/residency until at least 30 years old. That potential "time factor" to make money.

Lawyers get out when they are 25/26 years old. If they got to a legit school, most private firms in big cities will start them at over $100K. I dated a lawyer during residency who defends medical equipment companies. She went to Emory, and her starting salary for an "associate=non law partner" was $110K in Washington DC. This was in 2004 money. My wife's best friend is a computer consultant. She's only 27 with just a four year college degree and she pulls in over $130K a year.

So there are lots of jobs that pay well with much less education than physician's time/training.

but then again, an M.D. after your name trumps everything else.

an american M.D. is the highest academic status one can achieve on this planet - and thats baller.

 

[staylor21]

My brother is 36 now, owns a 1 million dollar home outright (no mortgage). He's been working for 11 years. He's gotten lucky with the tail end of the internet stock market boom and made over $500K profit on his first home during the housing boom.

That's what most of us missed out on if we when we still in school/residency until at least 30 years old. That potential "time factor" to make money.

Seems like you're looking at things with rose colored glasses. A few years later, and your brother would have *lost* money on both his house and his investments--while you would have "missed" out on that opportunity as well.

Lawyers get out when they are 25/26 years old. If they got to a legit school, most private firms in big cities will start them at over $100K. I dated a lawyer during residency who defends medical equipment companies. She went to Emory, and her starting salary for an "associate=non law partner" was $110K in Washington DC. This was in 2004 money. My wife's best friend is a computer consultant. She's only 27 with just a four year college degree and she pulls in over $130K a year.

So there are lots of jobs that pay well with much less education than physician's time/training.

The key is what you said above: legit school. To get one of these high $$ jobs at a big law firm, you need to go to a top school, which places you at easily top <3% of the country (keep in mind all the people who don't get in to law school period). You then need to get that job at the big firm (still competitive, believe it or not--not every one at Harvard Law is getting those jobs, and not for lack of interest). Then, over the course of few years, you need to make partner, competing against people *just as good as you*. So it's not like law is an easy road to riches. And these lawyers are working pretty hard hours too. (The "associate--non law partner" job you mention is less work, but also less salary and crucially--likely less job security).

By contrast, the physician who gets into the "worst" US med school, graduates, and completes "the worst" residency in his specialty will still earn good money--and the end of the day, it's hard to earn less than $100,000 in this field, regardless of your pedigree.

At the end of the day, there really aren't many arbitrage opportunities out there, job wise. People who earn a lot of money (a) work hard (b) are talented and (c) put in a lot of training (or (d)--born lukcy or rich, that's important too!)). Bemoaning how people in other fields seem to earn so much money for so little time put overlooks a lot of factors (and does a disservice to the time they put in).

 

[MCYan]

but then again, an M.D. after your name trumps everything else.

an american M.D. is the highest academic status one can achieve on this planet - and thats baller.

Wow, An american M.D. is NOT the highest academic status one can achieve even in the US, not to mention the planet... Another demonstration of how much ego americans have... How about a Doctor of Science degree? How about an M.D. from the UK, which REQUIRES you to have an M.D. from the US before you can even apply?


And yes it is true that a lot of other professions make more money than doctors do, but i think job security is one big thing doctors have over consultants/bankers.

 

[neutro]

Wow, An american M.D. is NOT the highest academic status one can achieve even in the US, not to mention the planet... Another demonstration of how much ego americans have... How about a Doctor of Science degree? How about an M.D. from the UK, which REQUIRES you to have an M.D. from the US before you can even apply?


And yes it is true that a lot of other professions make more money than doctors do, but i think job security is one big thing doctors have over consultants/bankers.

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

an american MD takes around 8 years = 4 years of bachelors plus 4 years of med school.

MBBS (the Bristish degree 'Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Sciences', which is converted to an M.D. only after residency in U.S.) takes 5.5 - 6 years. 6 years of medical school after high school (or A levels or O levels AFTER grade 10). and i dont know where you live, but you are not given an M.D. from U.K.
You have to take exams then you get a MRCP, then junior doctor, then senior doctor, still with that, its an MBBS - not an M.D. and they are NOT equivalent.

their 'residency' or 'training' is longer, but not the medical school itself...hence the 'academic status' meaning that you are a student in class...residency and training is paid work and doesnt count as 'schooling'

please, try to get your facts right.

 

[hoyden]

How about an M.D. from the UK, which REQUIRES you to have an M.D. from the US before you can even apply?

Who (in their sane self) would like to apply to become a UK doc if he/she is already an American MD? Are you drunk?

 

[MCYan]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

an american MD takes around 8 years = 4 years of bachelors plus 4 years of med school.

MBBS (the Bristish degree 'Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Sciences', which is converted to an M.D. only after residency in U.S.) takes 5.5 - 6 years. 6 years of medical school after high school (or A levels or O levels AFTER grade 10). and i dont know where you live, but you are not given an M.D. from U.K.
You have to take exams then you get a MRCP, then junior doctor, then senior doctor, still with that, its an MBBS - not an M.D. and they are NOT equivalent.

their 'residency' or 'training' is longer, but not the medical school itself...hence the 'academic status' meaning that you are a student in class...residency and training is paid work and doesnt count as 'schooling'

please, try to get your facts right.

I am very familiar with how the UK MBBS/MBChB system works, and I understand that it takes the UK docs ~6 years after high school (grade 12 is when they take A Levels) to start practicing medicine as a resident. But if you get your facts right, MD from UK does exist, which is entirely differently from MD in US. As I have mentioned, the requirements for getting an MD in UK requires you to be an MBBS/MBChB or in your case an MD from US to even apply.

If i am understanding you correctly, your definition of highest academic status is the number of years you spend in schooling? Then a UK student will take at least 6 years of medical school to get an MBBS and another 5-6 years to get a UK MD.

 

[MCYan]

Who (in their sane self) would like to apply to become a UK doc if he/she is already an American MD? Are you drunk?

Another demonstration of how ignorant Americans are. Why do Americans think that they are so good and the country so sooo attractive that everyone from all over the world wants to come to America and practice medicine? Why can't an American MD pursue his training/practice of medicine in the UK? Can't there be family reasons? Or perhaps he/she does not like the healthcare system in the US? I don't think an American MD is necessarily drunk in order to decide to practice medicine in the UK.

 

[onomatopoeias]

I am very familiar with how the UK MBBS/MBChB system works, and I understand that it takes the UK docs ~6 years after high school (grade 12 is when they take A Levels) to start practicing medicine as a resident. But if you get your facts right, MD from UK does exist, which is entirely differently from MD in US. As I have mentioned, the requirements for getting an MD in UK requires you to be an MBBS/MBChB or in your case an MD from US to even apply.

If i am understanding you correctly, your definition of highest academic status is the number of years you spend in schooling? Then a UK student will take at least 6 years of medical school to get an MBBS and another 5-6 years to get a UK MD.

Actually, in the UK the "MD" is an academic degree. It is more equivalent to the US "MD/PhD" degree. Very few people in the UK even get an MD. Most doctors over there only have an MBBS. But it is kind of bias & silly to say that the US MD is the greatest degree

 

[Sergio99]

Hello,

Going back to our original topic of income, I think the majority of people posting here are among the few lucky ones to get the best jobs in the country. I don't know many people who make that much money, and we in Los Angeles make definitely less than that.

In private practice the defining factor is your patient mix. If you have a good payor mix and good contracts with HMOs and PPOs, you may make a decent living. If you have mainly MediCal and Medicare, you are basically a slave of the government.

 

[Eta Carinae]

I dont think talking about hard figures regarding compensation is such a good idea on a public forum in the type of economic environment the US is in right now.

Agree.

In as much as hedge fund managers walk away with billions a year- in 2009, David Tepper ALONE made $4bn - the public is very much removed from the environment on Wall Street. They don't interface with the Soros and Tepper types and so have no concept of the cetacean worth and lifestyles of these crooks.

For physicians on the other hand, the interface with the simpleton, sheeple, ignorant and know-nothing public is largely unrestrained and so they are convinced of a sense of injustice when their physician (who, they've been told, "shouldn't do it for the money" or some asinine balderdash like that) manages to live in an upper middle class neighborhood and drives an audi instead of a ford focus.

Since the visibility of physicians is high to a very illiterate, uninformed and gullible public with (unfortunately) voting abilities, I believe it is prudent to act with as much discernment as possible.

 

[hoyden]

Another demonstration of how ignorant Americans are. Why do Americans think that they are so good and the country so sooo attractive that everyone from all over the world wants to come to America and practice medicine? Why can't an American MD pursue his training/practice of medicine in the UK? Can't there be family reasons? Or perhaps he/she does not like the healthcare system in the US? I don't think an American MD is necessarily drunk in order to decide to practice medicine in the UK.

Kiddo, google up how many of UK medical school graduates/practicing physicians/residents are taking the USMLEs and applying for American residency. And vice verse
Then start posturing. Or not

 

[G0S2]

These are not starting salaries but avg according to survey by the American Medical Group Assn. Got this from the UO (Unique Opportunities) mag I just received in the mail for some reason.

Anesthesia (2008 data):

East $326,667
West $355,244
South $352,625
North $375,813
Median $366,640

I imagine all regions will be going down a bit.

 

[Sergio99]

These are not starting salaries but avg according to survey by the American Medical Group Assn. Got this from the UO (Unique Opportunities) mag I just received in the mail for some reason.

Anesthesia (2008 data):

East $326,667
West $355,244
South $352,625
North $375,813
Median $366,640

I imagine all regions will be going down a bit.

Hello,

This is wishful thinking. We also receive those things in the mail, but I don't know anyone who actually got a job like that. Sure, if you move to the middle of Montana, where the closest neighbor is 20 miles away, and you need a passport, a visa and two connecting flights to get to the supermarket, maybe they will pay you that kind of money. Otherwise, you will have to settle for much less, especially in a place like Los Angeles, where there are thousands of colleagues on the lookout and willing to work for less.

 

[karizma098]

Hello,

This is wishful thinking. We also receive those things in the mail, but I don't know anyone who actually got a job like that. Sure, if you move to the middle of Montana, where the closest neighbor is 20 miles away, and you need a passport, a visa and two connecting flights to get to the supermarket, maybe they will pay you that kind of money. Otherwise, you will have to settle for much less, especially in a place like Los Angeles, where there are thousands of colleagues on the lookout and willing to work for less.

um, no.
there are reflected not as starting salaries, but as salaries after a few years on the job, and they are quite accurate.

every attending at our affiliated hospitals in chicago started above 250k a year. may of them bring in close to 300k their first year. after the first few years a salary of 300-325 is relatively standard in chicago, which is certainly not rural montana. private practice in the suburbs brings in similar cash , and wisconsin and indiana bring in a bit more.

los angeles may be a bit of a wasteland for anesthesia salaries, but i spoke to many anesthesiologists from the ASA conference that were doing very well in sacramento, san diego, northern cal, palm springs, etc.



i'm sick of everyone saying salaries are in the dumps. 300-350k is a VERY standard and expected career (not starting) salary in anesthesia.

if you're making that much less and unhappy about it - why not move. many groups here in the midwest are looking to hire, and 300k + is relatively easy to come by.

at the end of the day - it's not just about money. yes there are jobs that will pay you 200k to start and never make you a partner. yes, urban areas have higher competition and lower salaries - but it's misleading to post on forums and act like someone making '300k' is lucky and nabbed one of the 'few good jobs', thats simply untrue. if you were saying 400k with 15 weeks of vaca, sure, i'd say that's a lucky job. 350k with a regular workload? that is standard.

it's all the negative posts about compensation on this forum that scares off a lot of in-debt but talented med students.

 

[IlDestriero]

um, no.
there are reflected not as starting salaries, but as salaries after a few years on the job, and they are quite accurate.

every attending at our affiliated hospitals in chicago started above 250k a year. may of them bring in close to 300k their first year. after the first few years a salary of 300-325 is relatively standard in chicago, which is certainly not rural montana. private practice in the suburbs brings in similar cash , and wisconsin and indiana bring in a bit more.

los angeles may be a bit of a wasteland for anesthesia salaries, but i spoke to many anesthesiologists from the ASA conference that were doing very well in sacramento, san diego, northern cal, palm springs, etc.



i'm sick of everyone saying salaries are in the dumps. 300-350k is a VERY standard and expected career (not starting) salary in anesthesia.

if you're making that much less and unhappy about it - why not move. many groups here in the midwest are looking to hire, and 300k + is relatively easy to come by.

at the end of the day - it's not just about money. yes there are jobs that will pay you 200k to start and never make you a partner. yes, urban areas have higher competition and lower salaries - but it's misleading to post on forums and act like someone making '300k' is lucky and nabbed one of the 'few good jobs', thats simply untrue. if you were saying 400k with 15 weeks of vaca, sure, i'd say that's a lucky job. 350k with a regular workload? that is standard.

it's all the negative posts about compensation on this forum that scares off a lot of in-debt but talented med students.

Absolutely true. You can make that much and more almost everywhere, and you don't have to be supervising 3 or 4 rooms to do it. I think a lot of people take a lot of bad jobs, and I'm not sure why. The only job I looked at under 300k was almost part time in its hours with 12 weeks vaca, and in a very desirable location. Some academic jobs do pay poorly, but certainly not all, and some have exceptional benefits and generous non clinical time. I would encourage anyone not getting the above noted averages to assess how hard they are working, and look around at other opportunities.

 

[fakin' the funk]

um, no.
there are reflected not as starting salaries, but as salaries after a few years on the job, and they are quite accurate.

Karizma, others may be curious, as I am, what the basis for your post is. Your status says "Medical Student." Just trying to evaluate the reliability of your info.

 

[karizma098]

Karizma, others may be curious, as I am, what the basis for your post is. Your status says "Medical Student." Just trying to evaluate the reliability of your info.

Yes , i'm a medical student. i guess i'm new to this concept, but is that supposed to mean i should know less than a resident about the financial status of anesthesia?

i can understand when one questions the reliability of outlandish statements from medical students regarding topics they are ill informed on, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to be up to date on salary information on any given field of medicine, especially if you're a medical student and your attendings and teachers all work in the field.

as per the 'reliability' of my info, my father is an anesthesiologist, his old partner is a PD at a major chicago program, and my mentor is a PD at another program in chicago.
( pm me if you need more info about that), also more than a few of my good friends and family members are residents or attendings at chicago programs and practices.

i don't try and dreamweave a fairytale about anesthesiologists making 500k a year for an easy job, but i get annoyed with all the financial doom and gloom spread around here.

many a good student in my class has deferred to ER or rads bc of the crap they read on SDN about the end of anesthesia as a financially secure specialty. i guess i shouldn't complain, as that is less competition for me.

as per the statement you quoted specifically, i can understand that 350k is a higher starting salary, and many 1st year attendings make closer to the mid to high 200's to start, but i can honestly say i've NEVER met an anesthesiologist making less than 350k/year mid career ( who was working a typical full time 50 hour week and taking call, etc etc ) - ( even in lower paying academic gigs ).

i'm not saying salaries will always be as good as they are now, just that it's misinformed to think that 350k/year with benefits and decent vaca is a rare job to land, it's absolutely not.

in any case, hope i provided the 'basis' you were inquiring about.

 

[karizma098]

Absolutely true. You can make that much and more almost everywhere, and you don't have to be supervising 3 or 4 rooms to do it. I think a lot of people take a lot of bad jobs, and I'm not sure why. The only job I looked at under 300k was almost part time in its hours with 12 weeks vaca, and in a very desirable location. Some academic jobs do pay poorly, but certainly not all, and some have exceptional benefits and generous non clinical time. I would encourage anyone not getting the above noted averages to assess how hard they are working, and look around at other opportunities.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Yes , i'm a medical student. i guess i'm new to this concept, but is that supposed to mean i should know less than a resident about the financial status of anesthesia?

Of course not. I realize many medical students have had prior life or professional experiences, family or personal hookups, etc. That's why I asked in the manner I did -- without d-baggery, which unfortunately was not returned in kind.

 

[kmurp]

These are not starting salaries but avg according to survey by the American Medical Group Assn. Got this from the UO (Unique Opportunities) mag I just received in the mail for some reason.

Anesthesia (2008 data):

East $326,667
West $355,244
South $352,625
North $375,813
Median $366,640

I imagine all regions will be going down a bit.

This survey, If I recall correctly, focuses on academic and multispecialty group practices. As such, it's numbers are generally less than the mgma survey which is more private practice oriented. Leaving out benefits introduces alot of uncertainty as well.

 

[aneftp]

Guys or Gals, don't get caught up on the salary "stats".

All stats are be misleading. "average" means different things.

If "X" company out West pays $300K and "Y" company pays $250K and "Z" pays $350K, the stat machine will say the average company out west pays $300K.

However, that "X" company may include a $16500 matching retirement benefit plus pay for malpractice (occurrence) plus provide almost a full subsidy to all members of the anesthesiologist immediate family for health insurance plus provide life and temp. disability. So is "X" company paying $300K. The stats will say just $300K.

It's like I am always dumbfounded by teacher pay (my mother in law is a teacher). Say most teacher make $40K a year. That's "average." But I argue with my mother in-law (don't worry she actually loves me and says if I get divorce, she will keep me and dump her daughter!).

I tell her she gets 10 weeks of vacation in the summer time. She gets 2 weeks off for winter break and 1 week for spring break plus holidays. Plus she has a pension plan. So is her average salary $40K?

Same thing with the VA nurses averaging $70K a year PLUS $40K in "benefits".

So much of the public is mislead by physician salaries. They don't take in account
1. years of education (12...4 years college, 4 years med schoo, 4 years residency and maybe 1 year extra of fellowship). The public just sees MD makes $300K. My lawyer buddy from college is now a partner at the lawfirm. Makes over $500K. That's 4 years college, 3 years law school.
2. Work hours. The stats don't tell you how many hours a person is working. They just say MD is making $200K a year and mix it with MD making $400K a year and say the "average" is $300K. But MD with 400K is working 15 more hours a week than MD making $200K.

FYI: my brother works in Los Angeles proper, pulls almost $600K on fee for service 1099. I have another friend who works for Kaiser pulls significantly less (I won't disclose how much Kaiser pays since they are a huge entity out West). But the Kaiser package is very comparable when you factor in my brother works 60 plus hours a week (no benefits) while my friend at Kaiser works very close to 40 hours a week (with benefits and long term benefits).

 

[IlDestriero]

Guys or Gals, don't get caught up on the salary "stats".

All stats are be misleading. "average" means different things.

If "X" company out West pays $300K and "Y" company pays $250K and "Z" pays $350K, the stat machine will say the average company out west pays $300K.

However, that "X" company may include a $16500 matching retirement benefit plus pay for malpractice (occurrence) plus provide almost a full subsidy to all members of the anesthesiologist immediate family for health insurance plus provide life and temp. disability. So is "X" company paying $300K. The stats will say just $300K.

It's like I am always dumbfounded by teacher pay (my mother in law is a teacher). Say most teacher make $40K a year. That's "average." But I argue with my mother in-law (don't worry she actually loves me and says if I get divorce, she will keep me and dump her daughter!).

I tell her she gets 10 weeks of vacation in the summer time. She gets 2 weeks off for winter break and 1 week for spring break plus holidays. Plus she has a pension plan. So is her average salary $40K?

Same thing with the VA nurses averaging $70K a year PLUS $40K in "benefits".

So much of the public is mislead by physician salaries. They don't take in account
1. years of education (12...4 years college, 4 years med schoo, 4 years residency and maybe 1 year extra of fellowship). The public just sees MD makes $300K. My lawyer buddy from college is now a partner at the lawfirm. Makes over $500K. That's 4 years college, 3 years law school.
2. Work hours. The stats don't tell you how many hours a person is working. They just say MD is making $200K a year and mix it with MD making $400K a year and say the "average" is $300K. But MD with 400K is working 15 more hours a week than MD making $200K.

FYI: my brother works in Los Angeles proper, pulls almost $600K on fee for service 1099. I have another friend who works for Kaiser pulls significantly less (I won't disclose how much Kaiser pays since they are a huge entity out West). But the Kaiser package is very comparable when you factor in my brother works 60 plus hours a week (no benefits) while my friend at Kaiser works very close to 40 hours a week (with benefits and long term benefits).

Everyone seems to mock Kaiser, but it's not a bad deal at all when you examine the total package and workload. I know 2 guys that are very happy there in Southern CA. Old school pensions are hard to find these days.

 

[karizma098]

Of course not. I realize many medical students have had prior life or professional experiences, family or personal hookups, etc. That's why I asked in the manner I did -- without d-baggery, which unfortunately was not returned in kind.

apologies if i came across dbaggish, not my intention at all. was kinda late and was already in a crabbbo mood from some dbaggish messages in my inbox from others inquiring about / commenting on the same topic.
my bad.

 

[aneftp]

Everyone seems to mock Kaiser, but it's not a bad deal at all when you examine the total package and workload. I know 2 guys that are very happy there in Southern CA. Old school pensions are hard to find these days.

Yeah I agree. However W2 Jobs are kinda of tricky even with Kaiser. You just have to weed out the good Kaiser Jobs from the Bad Kaiser Jobs.

There was this one particular Kaiser job I was looking into until my friend at Kaiser told me to stay away.

It's kind of like the VA system. The cushy VA anesthesia jobs are never advertised while the bad VA anesthesia jobs are always available.

So you have to be very careful when you are going to a W2. The goal is to get fair compensation for the work you are doing.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

Yeah I agree. However W2 Jobs are kinda of tricky even with Kaiser. You just have to weed out the good Kaiser Jobs from the Bad Kaiser Jobs.

There was this one particular Kaiser job I was looking into until my friend at Kaiser told me to stay away.

It's kind of like the VA system. The cushy VA anesthesia jobs are never advertised while the bad VA anesthesia jobs are always available.

So you have to be very careful when you are going to a W2. The goal is to get fair compensation for the work you are doing.

How is it that VA jobs (and Kaiser jobs) differ so much? I would think compensation would be fairly parallel in each of those systems. So, you get a fairly similar starting pay for two random jobs along with similar bene's? Is this totally off base?

 

[aneftp]

How is it that VA jobs (and Kaiser jobs) differ so much? I would think compensation would be fairly parallel in each of those systems. So, you get a fairly similar starting pay for two random jobs along with similar bene's? Is this totally off base?

VA jobs are government based. The government has it's own sliding scale how pay is determined.

Kaiser is a private HMO. They are little more flexible in terms of price negotiation (not much more but more than the government).

The ones who tend to go for the government VA jobs are ones toward the end of their careers, the ones who don't want a demanding work schedule or MOST importantly anesthesiologist who have active military status. Active military status counts as years of government employee.

Think about this: 3 years as a military doctor, plus 3-5 years as a military doctor in residency. That's almost 8 years of service. You only need to reach 20 years to get full benefits. They used to be extremely generous (like 80% of pay the average last 3 years of pay) but I know the pension is like 50-60% these days.

 

[outsideshooter]

Again a complete sign of political ignorance on Physicians' part.

Why in the world do you want to advertise your pay, low or high?!

I mean whatever... we deserve all the **** that's about to happen to us
because we have no street smarts.

Some idiots brag about their planes, their yachts, their houses, their cars
and what not. All this on a public ****ing forum! Do I need to say any more.
Well, the minority of us, ****ed the rest of us. Thank you for this awesome question
that's generated so much response! Way to go! Can you keep doing it?!

WHO IN THE WORLD WOULD HAVE ANY SYMPATHY FOR *****S LIKE US?!

Obama didn't kill us- we did.

Case in point- THIS ****ING POST!

 

[Pewl]

Again a complete sign of political ignorance on Physicians' part.

Why in the world do you want to advertise your pay, low or high?!

I mean whatever... we deserve all the **** that's about to happen to us
because we have no street smarts.

Some idiots brag about their planes, their yachts, their houses, their cars
and what not. All this on a public ****ing forum! Do I need to say any more.
Well, the minority of us, ****ed the rest of us. Thank you for this awesome question
that's generated so much response! Way to go! Can you keep doing it?!

WHO IN THE WORLD WOULD HAVE ANY SYMPATHY FOR *****S LIKE US?!

Obama didn't kill us- we did.

Case in point- THIS ****ING POST!

You're joking, right?

Doctors' pay is hardly a well kept secret. You can go online and seek out US median salaries for all specialties by year if you wanted to. Forbes magazine posts the net worths of major business and media moguls as well.

Even ESPN has listed the salary of all the pro baseball players right on their profile under their height and weight. This stuff ain't secret. And those guys get paid WAY more than doctors. Do you think ESPN is "killing" its athletes? haha

 

[IlDestriero]

Again a complete sign of political ignorance on Physicians' part.

Why in the world do you want to advertise your pay, low or high?!

I mean whatever... we deserve all the **** that's about to happen to us
because we have no street smarts.

Some idiots brag about their planes, their yachts, their houses, their cars
and what not. All this on a public ****ing forum! Do I need to say any more.
Well, the minority of us, ****ed the rest of us. Thank you for this awesome question
that's generated so much response! Way to go! Can you keep doing it?!

WHO IN THE WORLD WOULD HAVE ANY SYMPATHY FOR *****S LIKE US?!

Obama didn't kill us- we did.

Case in point- THIS ****ING POST!

That strange and rarely consulted search engine called GOOGLE has all this info, and more, readily available. Perhaps we should protect access to Gaswork as well. All that salary and vacation info there... the HORROR!
Most surgical specialties make more than us, also not a secret. Derm, Rads, IR? You may wish that the information was secret, but it's not. There are several other sites with average physician salaries. The data is there for all to see on that interweb thing. Many state schools publish the salary/compensation data for all of their highest paid staff. Guess who makes more than the University President...
This thread, and the ones on cars and boats are not the problem, Chief. Wake up, and try not to be so rude when you're wrong and/or off your meds.
P.S. I'm sorry that the money won't be there for you. (not really) Try not to be so bitter. It's not too late for you to change careers.

 

[karizma098]

Again a complete sign of political ignorance on Physicians' part.

Why in the world do you want to advertise your pay, low or high?!

I mean whatever... we deserve all the **** that's about to happen to us
because we have no street smarts.

Some idiots brag about their planes, their yachts, their houses, their cars
and what not. All this on a public ****ing forum! Do I need to say any more.
Well, the minority of us, ****ed the rest of us. Thank you for this awesome question
that's generated so much response! Way to go! Can you keep doing it?!

WHO IN THE WORLD WOULD HAVE ANY SYMPATHY FOR *****S LIKE US?!

Obama didn't kill us- we did.

Case in point- THIS ****ING POST!

now thats a dbag.