What is the *WORST* EC one can include?

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Leading a WoW guild. This actually happened when I was interviewing in one of those multii faculty vs multi interviewees panels. They went down the table and asked about leadership experience, and that was the first applicants response. I inwardly cringed right before an interviewer asked what a "WoW" was.
 
J Senpai said:
How would you characterize that?
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If your entire work/activities section consists of nothing outside of clinical volunteering, shadowing, and research. Show me that you have a life and a way to connect with people.

If you have less than 10 activities listed, but of course this can vary case by case depending on what those activities actually are. Quality over quantity always, but don't be that guy who lists 5 things.

If you have multiple ECs for very short time periods, or if your time period is 3 years and you only managed to get 30 hours.

If none of your most meaningful experiences relate somehow to medicine or research. They don't all have to, and it's refreshing to see someone with an MME in something other than medicine, but if your MMEs are music, church volunteering, and baseball, you're gonna have a bad time.
 
mimelim said:
No, but it made me better at dealing with children, which is surprisingly useful in the hospital because there are a lot of people that act like one.
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Oh my god I chortled at my desk.
 
Ismet said:
If your entire work/activities section consists of nothing outside of clinical volunteering, shadowing, and research. Show me that you have a life and a way to connect with people.
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This is an interesting point of contention for me. I don't feel that applicants need to show me on paper that they can connect with people through EC's, because then it's just another check box to fill. Someone who has a solid group of friends/meaningful relationships wouldn't list that on their AMCAS.

Does being a long standing member of a hobby club really mean you're good with people? I'm not sure. For me, I'd decide that during an interview. If they can seem friendly and cordial for an hour of conversation that's most of what they need to have positive patient interactions.
 
cs24 said:
Haha maybe true, but still far from the worst EC. Also, sports like boxing, wrestling, etc are technically individual, but you need to have teammates/training partners and you can spin it that way on an application regarding things like teamwork, leadership. It's not like running, where you can literally do it completely alone.
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I was going to list my amateur fights on my application, this is making me reconsider. why would a doctor who's number one goal is preserving life, want to bash somebody's brains in?
 
JPSmyth said:
I was going to list my amateur fights on my application, this is making me reconsider. why would a doctor who's number one goal is preserving life, want to bash somebody's brains in?
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I have seen several of my classmates list MMA on their apps, and it's an interesting hobby. It can have a negative influence though so it's always worth strong consideration and painting it in the most positive (and perhaps least contact) light.

As far as amateur fights go, id leave that off unless you could list it as an official/school sponsored MMA club or the like.
 
Microglia said:
This is an interesting point of contention for me. I don't feel that applicants need to show me on paper that they can connect with people through EC's, because then it's just another check box to fill. Someone who has a solid group of friends/meaningful relationships wouldn't list that on their AMCAS.

Does being a long standing member of a hobby club really mean you're good with people? I'm not sure. For me, I'd decide that during an interview. If they can seem friendly and cordial for an hour of conversation that's most of what they need to have positive patient interactions.
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It depends. I hate making generalizations because context is key and we consider the entire application before offering interviews. But if a person's only activities are volunteering bringing warm blankets to patients and a few dozen hours of shadowing and some research, do they do anything else with their life? I'm not looking for their ability to communicate, that's mainly done via interviews. I'm looking for something that they're passionate about and have a life outside of medicine. I know several people who do absolutely nothing outside of medicine, and it's hard to talk to them about anything other than medicine. We're looking for a personality. As a wise adcom here oft says, pre-med 4.0 automatons are a dime a dozen.
 
LizzyM said:
International beauty queen. It will get you an interview but you might not be taken seriously for admission. Then again, 99.99% of you have a better chance of getting a full ride at Harvard Med than winning a beauty pageant.
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Aha, I was selected to compete in a certain pageant--never followed through with it though. Havard Med? Yeah, not in my cards
 
razzmatazz87 said:
Aha, I was selected to compete in a certain pageant--never followed through with it though. Havard Med? Yeah, not in my cards
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We actually had a former Miss [insert country name here] interview with us. It was unique, I'll grant her that, but it was more of a novelty and I think that some adcom members had a hard time thinking that she was serious about medicine because beauty pageants seem so superficial.
 
LizzyM said:
We actually had a former Miss [insert country name here] interview with us. It was unique, I'll grant her that, but it was more of a novelty and I think that some adcom members had a hard time thinking that she was serious about medicine because beauty pageants seem so superficial.
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We've had some pageant contestants (and winners). Overall, they have done well with matches in competitive programs (ortho, ophtho...)
 
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gyngyn said:
We've had some pageant contestants (and winners). Overall, they have done well with matches in competitive programs (ortho, ophtho...)
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I know two in derm....


Eh, don't think it's the absolute worst. Worst ones would be those bordering on illegal; hope no one would actually put those down! Personally, I limited my discussion of my love of hunting and firearms...
 
Miss America 2014 was pre-med but I just looked her up and now she's apparently pursuing graduate MBA programs!
 
Spinach Dip said:
I hope you donate all that venison to the local orphanage/homeless shelter.

😛
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Well, the first tags filled go towards home-made deer jerky, summer sausage, and deer-burger - for my family and myself. Once our freezer is full, yes, additional meat goes to a local food-pantry program. They like it; it's organic, corn-fed, and free-range. ;-)
 
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gyngyn said:
We've had some pageant contestants (and winners). Overall, they have done well with matches in competitive programs (ortho, ophtho...)
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I was talking to one of the PA's at work and she was talking about how her husband went to see a female urologist for getting the snippy snippy. Apparently said doctor is a looker and has a booming practice. The PA was laughing about it and saying that the woman picked the perfect field to go into. "When I asked my husband if he thought it would be weird talking to a woman about his junk he just looked at me like I was nuts. Then I met the doctor."

I was laughing so hard.
 
Mad Jack said:
I'm going to say prostitute is probably the worst EC.
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If the applicant worked legally in Nevada and wanted to pitch an application toward serving the needs of the underserved population of sex workers, there might be some nibbles, if you'll pardon the pun.
 
This thread made me wonder how religious ECs would look. I'm making my confirmation this spring and while I didn't plan on putting it on my list of activities it is still very important to me and I spend 2-3 hours each week in my program for it. Not sure if there are any other ECs that would fall into this category, but I'm wondering what it would look like to ADCOMs.
 
irishnerd26 said:
This thread made me wonder how religious ECs would look. I'm making my confirmation this spring and while I didn't plan on putting it on my list of activities it is still very important to me and I spend 2-3 hours each week in my program for it. Not sure if there are any other ECs that would fall into this category, but I'm wondering what it would look like to ADCOMs.
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I wonder. It might be a small bonus at the Christian themed medical schools (Loma Linda, Liberty, NYMC, or the four Jesuit schools). If confirmation was important to you, it is probably worth mentioning. Christianity isn't incompatible with medicine.

The disciple Luke was a physician. It might seem odd that Jesus himself was never a doctor, but remember he got nailed on his boards.
 
Some of the more common ones Ive come across reading applications:
(this is mostly my opinion, and I realize some are controversial)

1. Getting a certification (first responder, EMT, CNA) then never using it to get clinical experience
-not only does it not help, but it also looks bad that you never followed through and used the certification

2. Being a hospital volunteer to get clinical experience
-dime a dozen plus everyone knows that 90% end up answering phone calls, cleaning rooms, or just sitting around doing nothing

3. Including fraternity/sorority committee memberships for leadership experience
-with the exception of service organizations and committees, Its likely you spent most of your time organizing mixers and keggers

My vote for the worst would have to be anti vaccine advocate or medical malpractice lawyer.
 
alpinism said:
2. Being a hospital volunteer to get clinical experience
-dime a dozen plus everyone knows that 90% end up answering phone calls, cleaning rooms, or just sitting around doing nothing
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😕 Huh?

I thought things like this (even if it was nothing more than stocking shelves for 3 hours a week) were seen in a favorable light? Or, at worst, a neutral "space filler" seen neither as highly positive or negative.

If these volunteering gigs are starting to be seen in a more negative light (perhaps due to market saturation?), it shows a critical change in the admissions process IMO.
 
JPSmyth said:
I was going to list my amateur fights on my application, this is making me reconsider. why would a doctor who's number one goal is preserving life, want to bash somebody's brains in?
Click to expand...
Because training mixed martial arts is fun, a great break from the grind of medical school, good exercise, intellectually stimulating, and about improving technical skill rather than bashing in brains. You could also go down the developing actual self defense skills or testing your limits road on an application.

*Of course, if your motivations for training are in fact to bash in brains, and your ammy fights involve $25 payout brawls sponsored by your buddies at the local bar, yeah I'd leave that off my application
 
Spinach Dip said:
😕 Huh?

I thought things like this (even if it was nothing more than stocking shelves for 3 hours a week) were seen in a favorable light? Or, at worst, a neutral "space filler" seen neither as highly positive or negative.

If these volunteering gigs are starting to be seen in a more negative light (perhaps due to market saturation?), it shows a critical change in the admissions process IMO.
Click to expand...

I don't think they are seen in a negative light, but they really don't impressive adcom/interviewers enough to even mention it. If you bring up the time you wheeled Mrs. Smith from her room to the curb or delivered flowers, it's going to have a flat effect. It's still better than nothing though.

This has been said before, but I think it is best to get involved in an service organization that is meaningful to you, medical or non medical. For example, I have been involved/still am in a pediatric cancer camp for four years that I really felt I did something meaningful and saw real servitude, not the type you do to add a line to your resume. My first interview question at my top choice school was "tell me about a patient" and I never thought about the patients I met via hospital volunteering. Without a second of thought, my answer was my one-legged camper who had osteosarcoma that passed after 3 years of time spent together at the camp, at the fair, and in the hospital.

I don't mean to play a small violin here, but that type of relationship is hard to find in a hospital, but a premed can easily find it through long-term service commitment to one organization.
 
sazerac said:
The disciple Luke was a physician. It might seem odd that Jesus himself was never a doctor, but remember he got nailed on his boards.
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Ironic end to his career as a carpenter.
 
Graywolf said:
I don't think they are seen in a negative light, but they really don't impressive adcom/interviewers enough to even mention it. If you bring up the time you wheeled Mrs. Smith from her room to the curb or delivered flowers, it's going to have a flat effect. It's still better than nothing though.
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I am glad to hear this, as the prevailing notion I have heard since freshman year is that doing one of these volunteer gigs (ie. Emergency Room shelf stocker and water fetcher) are enough to get one into med school.

If these things are falling out of favor at this time, I am 100% in favor of this change.
 
Spinach Dip said:
I am glad to hear this, as the prevailing notion I have heard since freshman year is that doing one of these volunteer gigs (ie. Emergency Room shelf stocker and water fetcher) are enough to get one into med school.

If these things are falling out of favor at this time, I am 100% in favor of this change.
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Amen!
 
Spinach Dip said:
Playing video games: Whether professionally or recreationally, this apparently shows immaturity and a propensity for addiction.
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As a response to the ever popular interview question, "Tell Me About Yourself", I mentioned playing video games, anime, and my love of the Harry Potter series. Of course, this was accompanied by other information that was more fitting for a medical school interview. My point is that I got an early accept from that school, so mentioning things of this sort does not necessarily hurt one's application imo. To each his/her own, though!
 
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Ismet said:
If you have less than 10 activities listed, but of course this can vary case by case depending on what those activities actually are. Quality over quantity always, but don't be that guy who lists 5 things.


If none of your most meaningful experiences relate somehow to medicine or research. They don't all have to, and it's refreshing to see someone with an MME in something other than medicine, but if your MMEs are music, church volunteering, and baseball, you're gonna have a bad time.
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I have wayyy less than 10, but I work 20 hours a week combined with school responsibilities- would that be okay?

alpinism said:
2. Being a hospital volunteer to get clinical experience
-dime a dozen plus everyone knows that 90% end up answering phone calls, cleaning rooms, or just sitting around doing nothing
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Could you use that to show how you learned the business side of medicine, and have more knowledge of insurances and "inner workings" of a hospital?
 
cs24 said:
Because training mixed martial arts is fun, a great break from the grind of medical school, good exercise, intellectually stimulating, and about improving technical skill rather than bashing in brains. You could also go down the developing actual self defense skills or testing your limits road on an application.

*Of course, if your motivations for training are in fact to bash in brains, and your ammy fights involve $25 payout brawls sponsored by your buddies at the local bar, yeah I'd leave that off my application
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People often forget that fighting, boxing specifically, is known as the sweet science, but when it comes down it, it's a fight first and foremost. You are in there to hurt your opponent, and he is there to hurt you too. Working in the gym can be fun, but the only fun part about actually fighting is the end of the fight, if you've won

I will definitely be leaving this off my application, but I also played a DII traditional team sport in college so if adcoms favor athletics that might help haha
 
alpinism said:
2. Being a hospital volunteer to get clinical experience
-dime a dozen plus everyone knows that 90% end up answering phone calls, cleaning rooms, or just sitting around doing nothing
.
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I do more than that, it is boring though. Granted, not every premed can be an EMT/scribe/CNA/hospice volunteer. Clinical experience is required, and like it or not, that is one of the most abundant venues to get it. All the clinical experiences are a dime a dozen because there isn't much a nonprofessional can do in healthcare except the above listed things.
 
My school has a "netflix club" just a bunch of people who free-load off of a few accounts and watch different shows. President of it tried to swing it as "innovative" but seriously, a club to watch **** on the internet ain't gonna prove why you should be a doctor
 
Sooo having 1500 hours logged in Surgeon Simulator would not be a good EC, but let's talk about all that clinical experience!
 
@Spinach Dip, this question is very difficult to answer for a number of reasons. First of all, people have put a plethora of different activities on their AMCAS. What has worked for some, haven't worked for others. But more importantly, what one may perceive to be the "worst" activity is entirely dependent on how they view the purpose of the pre-med process.

Let's start with the "gold standard," HOSPITAL VOLUNTEERING.

Hospital volunteering is the worst if... You view the pre-med process in an idealistic light. Very few pre-meds actually get to do much, and thus are not really getting meaningful experiences out of it. They can be doing more, right? How about a free clinic (nearly impossible to get into when I was pre-med)? How about entry-level clinical jobs (these require a significant commitment, and can sink your chances of ever getting into medical school)? How about starting your own non-profit (if it's legit, this will require a significant commitment)? How about devoting the rest of your time as an undergrad to only doing medically-related activities (this seems to be the unrealistic standard set on SDN)?

Hospital volunteering is the best if... You view the pre-med process as a means to an end, with the goal of getting into medical school. It's a minimal time commitment, where you only need to come in a few hours once per week. Often you don't have much to do, so you can spend a lot of time studying for your classes or MCAT. And if you're feeling dishonest, you can probably skip the shifts and no one would notice. This goes against the whole notion of the purpose of ECs on SDN, but it's a very effective way of getting into medical school. It's worked for ages, and will continue to work until the end of time (most likely).

As you can see, some people might view this as the worst possible EC, while others might view it as the best. For those who have read my past threads and posts, you'll know that hospital volunteering tops of my list of "must do" activities.

Personally, I view this in a philosophical way. To me, it's very sad that this has become an arms race between students. The value of volunteering and other ECs has lost its meaning. People casually speak about how many hours they have and they judge others for having too few (because if you have under 100 hours, you are a selfish ***hole). Is this what selflessly giving your time to help others is supposed to mean? With that said, the worst ECs are those which you are doing solely to get into medical school and take up way too much time. People end up spending the best years of their lives pretending to be passionate about things others want them to be passionate about. This is why I'm glad to be a non-traditional student. I could not imagine spending so much time on a facade. Yet, people on SDN generally view these favorably, because members need to be politically correct, and won't admit their true motives (seriously, how many people who are not pre-med are doing a laundry-list of such activities???).

The best activities, in my opinion, are those which will get you into medical school with the least amount of effort. Therefore, hospital volunteering is the greatest thing since sliced bread (or Betty White, whichever way you see it) since you can make it what you want it to be, and for many it's half-assing their time there. Yet, a lot of people on SDN will say how this is the worst activity because it might not be meaningful, you might not learn a lot, and blah blah blah. Okay, you have the rest of your life to do great meaningful things as a physician. You only have this one chance to become a doctor, so don't blow it.

And with all that said, my answer to your question is... I DON'T KNOW.
 
DoctorLacrosse said:
the most common one I hear of is going on a medical mission trip abroad, and doing things that one would never be allowed to do in the states.

an example would be traveling to Africa to help in a clinic, and doing things like suturing or helping beyond an acceptable scope for an unlicensed volunteer. this is extremely unethical and seen as a big red flag, meanwhile applicants include it thinking it sounds "impressive".
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I see where you're coming from, and so do lots of others (especially ADCOMs). Unfortunately, I feel for these applicants because I know where they are coming from. @LizzyM famously says: "If you can smell the patient, it's clinical experience." That worked for me. I volunteered in a hospital ED. I never touched a patient. I sure smelled them, for better or for worse. But no touching, no procedures, etc... And I got into medical school. My clinical courses are great. I don't feel like I'm lacking anything compared to fellow classmates that worked as entry-level clinical workers. Now, a lot of pre-meds feel the need to do more and more with a patient. They think that this will look "impressive" to ADCOMs. This is likely why they are attracted to mission trips. I highly doubt that the people who go on them wake up one morning and say, "Hey, I feel like being an unethical person by doing things way beyond the scope of practice on poor people thousands of miles away!" I don't think many applicants, if any, are psychopaths like this. I think they believe that they will get to do more than the applicant at the hospital down the street, and therefore believe it will give them a leg up in the admissions process.

Finally, replace mission trip with free clinic. All of a sudden, the things that sounded unethical now sound like "great clinical experiences!" Free clinics are very popular on SDN, because pre-meds assume (rightly so) that they can do more than a local hospital ED. This is true. I don't think that they are flocking to free clinics because they necessarily care about the poor people in our society. Thus, a free clinic volunteer would be viewed in a positive light. Yet, try doing the same thing overseas, and you're viewed as a monster. It's a big double-standard. :sorry:
 
irishnerd26 said:
This thread made me wonder how religious ECs would look. I'm making my confirmation this spring and while I didn't plan on putting it on my list of activities it is still very important to me and I spend 2-3 hours each week in my program for it. Not sure if there are any other ECs that would fall into this category, but I'm wondering what it would look like to ADCOMs.
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My largest (by hours) activity was a religious one! I am highly involved in a Buddhist aid organization and it came up in every single interview.
If you are spending 2-3 hours/week on an activity, it is worth mentioning, especially because it is very important to you. It helps paint a picture of who you are and what has shaped your values and worldview.
 
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