What Sucks About Being A Dentist

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Practicing Dentists,

I'm a predent-premed flip flopper. I've shadowed several professionals in both careers and I'm leaning toward dentistry. But I was curious about what you hate in your career. If you could do it all over again, knowing what you know now about dentistry, would you?

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I dislike the people that don't really enjoy dentistry, feel "stuck" because of their loans and turn out shoddy dentistry.
 
Got an ER call from a drug seeker... not a patient of record at 8am this morning. Found us in the phone book. I was really looking forward to sleeping in a little! :mad:

I've also gotten calls on Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, Christmas, Sat 10pm. Pretty much all were drug seekers or for dental needs that were diagnosed long ago, but the patient decided to wait until the most inconvenient time possible to want a root canal/ext.
 
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A common complaint from some of my friends who are GP's: Being "forced" to go through with unethical treatment plans, because the boss or company you work for decides them for you.

But on the MD side... being forced into providing the wrong treatment because the insurance companies decide what you can and cannot do, which is based strictly on $$$, not on what is right for the patient.


Practicing Dentists,

I'm a predent-premed flip flopper. I've shadowed several professionals in both careers and I'm leaning toward dentistry. But I was curious about what you hate in your career. If you could do it all over again, knowing what you know now about dentistry, would you?
 
Its physically demanding and leaves you pretty worn out. Not to mention the neck pain.
 
z063as7.jpg



Um gee I don't know, having to drive a car that looks like this to my big ass house at 4:30pm after a hard 7 hour a day 4 day a week job to see my beautiful wife? Life is hard! Seriously all jobs have parts about them that suck. If you don't like how you are practicing dentistry then nut up and change the way that you practice. What I see mostly are dentists who are too afraid to change the way that they practice but won't stop complaining about how "hard" dentistry is. Road work is hard work, roofing in Texas in the summer is hard work and neither of them pays worth a crap, but while dentistry has is mental and emotional stresses for the hours you put in it pays pretty damn well.


Oh and that was my 2007 Z06 Corvette that I bought with cash new off the lot. I had it till last year when I sold it and bought a new BMW M5.:thumbup:
 
z063as7.jpg



Um gee I don't know, having to drive a car that looks like this to my big ass house at 4:30pm after a hard 7 hour a day 4 day a week job to see my beautiful wife? Life is hard! Seriously all jobs have parts about them that suck. If you don't like how you are practicing dentistry then nut up and change the way that you practice. What I see mostly are dentists who are too afraid to change the way that they practice but won't stop complaining about how "hard" dentistry is. Road work is hard work, roofing in Texas in the summer is hard work and neither of them pays worth a crap, but while dentistry has is mental and emotional stresses for the hours you put in it pays pretty damn well.


Oh and that was my 2007 Z06 Corvette that I bought with cash new off the lot. I had it till last year when I sold it and bought a new BMW M5.:thumbup:



so the possibility of becoming a Corvette driving hillbilly looks like the worst thing that'll happen if you become a dentist. upgraded to the beemer eh?! i can almost smell the axe body spray from here. :laugh: jk :cool:
 
Hmm, before you go about flaunting all your money read up about how many dentists fail to adequately save up for retirement.
 
Hmm, before you go about flaunting all your money read up about how many dentists fail to adequately save up for retirement.

he's retired....sooooooo i guess he's up on his "retirement savings plan". :laugh: :slap: when you're paying for an $80k car in cash, it's a good indication that you're doin aiiight.
 
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he's retired....sooooooo i guess he's up on his "retirement savings plan". :laugh: :slap: when you're paying for an $80k car in cash, it's a good indication that you're doin aiiight.

Buying a car and paying 80K cash is only an indication that you bought a car for 80K cash and nothing else. In fact, it may be better to buy credit if you can secure one of those X months with no interest deals. You are essentially forfeiting interest on 80K. Also, just because he is retired doesn't mean he has enough for retirement. There are many people who retire prematurely and have to return to work. The fact that the market took a huge hit doesn't help matters.

I'm not talking about The Hammer specifically of course since I don't know his situation. However, many people who you see flaunting money are heavily leveraged and in debt. In fact, their net worth may very well be negative and their cash flow may be much less than you expect. Look at how all the McMansions, gas-guzzling soccer mom SUV's and sub-prime mortgages turned out. Many dentists fail to adequately prepare for retirement. As business owners they come across large sums of money but fail to properly manage it.
 
Hmm, before you go about flaunting all your money read up about how many dentists fail to adequately save up for retirement.

I retired at 43 so I guess I'm not one of the dentist who didn't save up enough.
 
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Buying a car and paying 80K cash is only an indication that you bought a car for 80K cash and nothing else. In fact, it may be better to buy credit if you can secure one of those X months with no interest deals. You are essentially forfeiting interest on 80K. Also, just because he is retired doesn't mean he has enough for retirement. There are many people who retire prematurely and have to return to work. The fact that the market took a huge hit doesn't help matters.

I'm not talking about The Hammer specifically of course since I don't know his situation. However, many people who you see flaunting money are heavily leveraged and in debt. In fact, their net worth may very well be negative and their cash flow may be much less than you expect. Look at how all the McMansions, gas-guzzling soccer mom SUV's and sub-prime mortgages turned out. Many dentists fail to adequately prepare for retirement. As business owners they come across large sums of money but fail to properly manage it.

You can't get a loan for less than prime plus one for any high end car. You can"t get it for a M car, a Z06, ZR1 or basically anything over 60K. The idea of "oh I'll get a loan and put the money in a higher yielding account" only happens when you come across the rare deal like some of the 0% financing.

I worked very very hard to save the money that I did that allowed me to work because I want to and not because I have to. As a dental student I would think that you would view my success positively as if I can do it so can you, instead of the envy that your post reeks of. Don't be a playa hater:thumbup:
 
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so the possibility of becoming a Corvette driving hillbilly looks like the worst thing that'll happen if you become a dentist. upgraded to the beemer eh?! i can almost smell the axe body spray from here. :laugh: jk :cool:

You just really want a 0 in professionalism don't you.
:D
 
Dude, I agree with your point(lol) but, what's wrong with Axe body spray?
 
I retired at 43 so I guess I'm not one of the dentist who didn't save up enough.
Explain this magic along with hard work....

Nice vette by the way.
 
Explain this magic along with hard work....

Nice vette by the way.

Yes it was but I really like my M5 more.

1. I graduated with no debt which helped out immensely. Actually this is not totally true because I got married the same month I graduated so I "inherited" my wife's $70,000 debt (yes small potatoes compared to dental school debt)

2. I worked as associate for one year and then went and bought my first practice. It was a busy practice so I immediately hired one of my classmates as an associate. This way I doubled my production and rarely had to close the office if I wanted to go to a continuing ed.

3. I realized that I knew nothing about managing a practice so I hooked up with Jim Pride from Pride Institute (he's dead now) and got he got me up to speed really fast on how to manage a practice. It took about two years. The secret is staff management BTW. I doubled my production again and I was 6 years out of school.

4. I made myself available for every health fair, boy scout merit badge college, street fair, school presentation etc. I worked very hard and got my name out in the community as much as possible. I did a lot internal marketing and made sure that my patients also referred other people to me by taking very good care of them (seeing them for after hours emergencies for no charge etc)

5.I constantly reinvested in my office, my staff and myself with upgrades in my equipment and continuing ed

6. Since I didn't have to close the office because I had an associate I was able to take a lot of quality continuing ed. I did the Pankey continuum and Masters Series, I did all the Frank Spears courses including working with him in his office, I got about 80-100 hours a year in CE every year since I graduated. Quality CE will pay off if you are willing to implement what you have learned.

7. I nutted up and put my ass on the line all the time changing my practice into the type of practice I wanted. I had to stand firm and keep the staff from freaking out every time I raised fees or introduced some new protocol that made the office more productive. I also constantly sought out new and better ways of doing things and worked hard to improve my skills.

8. I paid off my debt quickly and was able to invest in some aggressive funds very early in my career. Some bit me in the ass but some I was able to ride out and they paid off pretty well. (Right now my "retirement" is from one of my earliest investments. It will pay me a really really good salary every year until I turn 65, my other investments and 401K will have kicked in years before this one taps out.)

9. About 7 years ago I started doing nothing but full mouth restorations, implant supported dentures etc. I turned all my general dentistry duties over to my associated and cherry picked my cases from our pretty large patient population. Eventually I had built up a good enough reputation so that I was getting referrals from Oral surgeons, orthodontists and other dentists. I worked on a bunch of dentist's wives too.

10. About 2 years ago I sold half of my LLC to my associate for twice what I paid for my original practice and he became my partner (bad bad idea :()
This did not work out like I had hoped and I realized that I needed to get out so I sold him the other half of the practice last year.

11. I was going to take some time off and then open another practice. I went to talk to my accountant about how much money I could put together for opening a new office and he told me that if I wanted to I could "retire". So I decided to take a break from dentistry and think about it. While I was enjoying my "retirement" I got a call from one of my dental school instructors who asked me if I'd like to teach at the dental school he is the dean at now. I thought "why not" so thats what I'm doing for now.
 
Hammer I idolize you. I feel I have the guts and motivation to pull off what you did, but the one bullet from your life story that I worry about is managing my staff to full productivity. I haven't taken many classes on management. Any more advice on the managerial topic?

Also how did you get out of dental school with no debt? Scholarships?
 
Like a boss! hahaha my favorite thing is that your key to success is making sure you "nut up" :laugh: be aggressive, do a lot of CE's, own your practice, invest. but most importantly, nut the heck up! :rofl:
 
Hammer I idolize you. I feel I have the guts and motivation to pull off what you did, but the one bullet from your life story that I worry about is managing my staff to full productivity. I haven't taken many classes on management. Any more advice on the managerial topic?

Also how did you get out of dental school with no debt? Scholarships?

I got left an inheritance from my grandfather. It paid for college and dental school. I had exactly $116.53 left when I graduated from Dental school. I used that money to buy a hell of a lot of Ramen noodles until I got my first associateship.

Managing a dental office is not as business management oriented as you would think. Most dental software packages will do most of it for you. If you get a good office manager who knows how to bill insurance and collect from patients you are fine. The real trick to managing a successful practice is people management. This is what you will spend more time working on more so than the business or dentistry part of your practice. How well you can relate to your patients and staff and how well you can get them to do what you want is what will make you successful or make your life miserable.

For me it was a very long journey. I had to learn to master myself first before I could lead others. Facing your own shortcomings and insecurities and dealing with them will make you a much better leader if you can nut up and do it. Unfortunately a lot of people can't.

The best book I have ever read on managing people (and I've read hundreds) is this one;
The-Truth-About-Managing-Peopleand-Nothing-but-the-Truth.jpg


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0132346036/ref=s9_simi_gw_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1TYFGX7D27QQKRJ8FN0N&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

Get it, read it, memorize every single word and do what it says and you will be way ahead of about 90% of all other office owner dentists
 
Like a boss! hahaha my favorite thing is that your key to success is making sure you "nut up" :laugh: be aggressive, do a lot of CE's, own your practice, invest. but most importantly, nut the heck up! :rofl:

I read a great quote from Napoleon Hill's book "Think and Grow Rich". It is "Whatever you want O' discontented man, step up pay the price and take it" in other words "if you want something nut up, take the lumps, tough it out and get it. Otherwise shut up and quit your whining."

I don't believe that there is anything that you can't have or do if you are willing to pay the price to get it. If you want something you have to be willing to pay the "price" in time, money, personal sacrifice, pain (physical, emotional, mental) and overcoming the fear to act and face your own shortcomings. If you can do that there is nothing that can stop you but the vast majority of people do not want to be made "uncomfortable." They would rather wallow in the misery that is familiar to them than to venture out into the unknown and possibly make their lives much better.:thumbup:
 
If you can do that there is nothing that can stop you but the vast majority of people do not want to be made "uncomfortable." They would rather wallow in the misery that is familiar to them than to venture out into the unknown and possibly make their lives much better.


This is so true. So many people, myself included, are so paralyzed by "what ifs" that they don't truly go for it.

I've always been told and believe that the pain of discipline you only pay for a specific period of time and is quickly forgotten when success is achieved, but the pain of regret is paid over and over endlessly.
 
Great post to read, Hammer, especially when I'm feeling really lazy the day before a test. And thanks for sharing the book recommendation -- just ordered it off Amazon!
 
Hammer, thank you for your help and great post, i wanted to ask you, could you please put some numbers to your carreer, i mean, what kind of many where you making at different points of your carreer, the same for your associates. How much did you sell your practice for? how much did you retire with?, anything that you could share on that sense. thanks.
 
Hammer, thank you for your help and great post, i wanted to ask you, could you please put some numbers to your carreer, i mean, what kind of many where you making at different points of your carreer, the same for your associates. How much did you sell your practice for? how much did you retire with?, anything that you could share on that sense. thanks.

I'll share what numbers I can. Some like how much I have saved for retirement and what my current "retirement" is paying me I would prefer to keep to myself

Here goes

June 1993- graduated from dental school

October 1993 - took my first associateship for $3000 a month ( I was planning on buying this practice after a year, it didn't work out)

August 1995 - I buy my first practice for $340,000. It was grossing $499,000 with a 64% overhead. I immediately hired one of my classmates as my associate. I paid her 25% of her collections (no lab fees deduced)

December 1996 - I grossed about $749,000 for the year. I probably could have done more but my father suddenly died in September so I spent more time with my family while my associate kept the office open.

1997-1999 - I grossed about $850,000 - $875,000. My office only had 4 ops with me, the associate and two hygienists we were pretty much maxed out with the space we had available so I started to plan a new office

2000- 2001 My classmate left to have kids so I hired my next associate who I was grooming to become my partner to take over the general part of my practice while I started to do more full mouth restorations. Our gross just barely peaked over $900,000

2002 - still in the old office still producing just a smidge over $900,000 very frustrating

2003 - New office twice as big as my old one with 6 ops. I break $1 million. I kept the day sheet when we collected the million.

2004 - 2006 - doing nothing but full on prosth. Continuing to gross over a million each year with 2006 being my personal best year. The office grossed about $1.5 and my take home was a little over $400k pretax. I bought the Z06 in January of 2007 as a present to myself.

2007 - my associate buys half the practice in July for quite a bit more than I paid for the practice originally and I do a little dance (My contract has a non-disclosure clause about what he paid)

2008 - my partner starts giving me grief and I spend more and more time away from the office, something is going to have to change

2009 - In March I tell my partner to buy my other half out. He does and I "retire" to teach. My old office manager calls and tells me in October that the production is off by 54% and still going down. Oh well

I hope that this helps. If I can do it ANYONE can do it. I was not a particularly good student in dental school. I didn't have amazing hands or speed when I graduated. I just worked very hard and did the things that I said that I did in my previous post
 
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Very inspiring, Hammer! Great post!
 
hammer, that's really inspiring. you're story some what resembles the dentist i use to work for when i was a dental assistant...he started working with barely any loans to pay off( since he was a foreign trained dentist)...by his early thirties he was grossing over 1Mil in his practice...
 
Hammer,

Your partner bought the practice for roughly 1.4 to maybe 1.5 million and the practice is now grossing less than 700 k per year? Ouch!! Sucks to be him!

What was your overhead percentage at your peak? Were you putting away a lot of money for retirement during your building phase of the practice? How did you set up the retirement plan of your practice to maximize your contributions? Thanks for sharing your success story.
 
Thanks Hammer! I love reading stuff like this.
 
I read a great quote from Napoleon Hill's book "Think and Grow Rich". It is "Whatever you want O' discontented man, step up pay the price and take it" in other words "if you want something nut up, take the lumps, tough it out and get it. Otherwise shut up and quit your whining."

I don't believe that there is anything that you can't have or do if you are willing to pay the price to get it. If you want something you have to be willing to pay the "price" in time, money, personal sacrifice, pain (physical, emotional, mental) and overcoming the fear to act and face your own shortcomings. If you can do that there is nothing that can stop you but the vast majority of people do not want to be made "uncomfortable." They would rather wallow in the misery that is familiar to them than to venture out into the unknown and possibly make their lives much better.:thumbup:

Hows the teaching coming along? What exactly do you do?
 
Hows the teaching coming along? What exactly do you do?

Lol, what's your name so we can Google you? (sarcasm...) Seriously, great post and I appreciate the time you took to write it. It gives us aspiring dentists some hope and good advice for what we can look forward to achieving if we work hard.

On a side note, you should change your status from Pre-Dental to Dentist (or maybe retired?) I didn't give you any respect at first because I thought you were just in high school, lol.
 
Hows the teaching coming along? What exactly do you do?

It's awesome working with the guy. I think i should start a "Hammerism of the Day" where i post some of his pearls of wisdom from everyday learnin's.

Today's Hammerism:

"When it comes to managing people, a lot of dentists use the "carrott on a stick" method for employee motivation but I have found that the stick alone works just fine!" :rofl:
 
It's awesome working with the guy. I think i should start a "Hammerism of the Day" where i post some of his pearls of wisdom from everyday learnin's.

Today's Hammerism:

"When it comes to managing people, a lot of dentists use the "carrott on a stick" method for employee motivation but I have found that the stick alone works just fine!" :rofl:

So dentists can just go back and teach if they choose to? Is it really that simple?

When I started considering dentistry, I always liked the idea of retiring and going back to teach and share the wisdom I would have collected over the years.
 
Hows the teaching coming along? What exactly do you do?

The teaching is AWESOME!!!!! I have really really great motivated students like Oracle (who is actually a pretty funny guy in real life) and I am a full time clinical instructor.
 
Lol, what's your name so we can Google you? (sarcasm...) Seriously, great post and I appreciate the time you took to write it. It gives us aspiring dentists some hope and good advice for what we can look forward to achieving if we work hard.

On a side note, you should change your status from Pre-Dental to Dentist (or maybe retired?) I didn't give you any respect at first because I thought you were just in high school, lol.

Believe it or not I am still listed as working at my old practice:laugh:
 
Yes it was but I really like my M5 more.


(Right now my "retirement" is from one of my earliest investments. It will pay me a really really good salary every year until I turn 65,


can you be more descriptive? is this some kind of annuity?
 
can you be more descriptive? is this some kind of annuity?

Yes. It started as a real estate investment that sold at the height of the real estate bubble in Cali. I'm getting the interest right now and eventually I will work my way into the principle until it is tapped out in 22 years. It was truly a freak thing to have pay off. I just wish that I had had more money at the time to invest but I would say that my $18,000 did pretty well.
 
:hijacked:

Can anyone say - Hijacked?!?!

Great job of taking over someone else's thread.
 
Yes. It started as a real estate investment that sold at the height of the real estate bubble in Cali. I'm getting the interest right now and eventually I will work my way into the principle until it is tapped out in 22 years. It was truly a freak thing to have pay off. I just wish that I had had more money at the time to invest but I would say that my $18,000 did pretty well.

wow The Hammer you could be a motivational speaker! i am sure most school would pay to have you speak to their student body. You can also write a book. i love reading stories like yours man. i'm hooked. pls continue to share your wisdom. God bless you man
 
The hammer you sound like the dentist i shadowed in Knoxville. This guy has been practicing since the early 90s. Graduate of Meharry, has had 2 successful practices, has ZERO debt. his current practice is worth over 1.5mill. when i shadowed him over a 3 month period he showed me how much they were collecting each month. numbers looked like this 125k, 130k, 150k. He told me the recession has been good to him. people keep coming through his doors. He tells me to hurry up and get into DS and finish because he needs help. i didn't understand his true worth until i noticed he was planning on buying a freaking gulfstream V because he loves to travel. :laugh:
 
The hammer you sound like the dentist i shadowed in Knoxville. This guy has been practicing since the early 90s. Graduate of Meharry, has had 2 successful practices, has ZERO debt. his current practice is worth over 1.5mill. when i shadowed him over a 3 month period he showed me how much they were collecting each month. numbers looked like this 125k, 130k, 150k. He told me the recession has been good to him. people keep coming through his doors. He tells me to hurry up and get into DS and finish because he needs help. i didn't understand his true worth until i noticed he was planning on buying a freaking gulfstream V because he loves to travel. :laugh:

If he was in Knoxville I know him. I practiced in Tennessee
 
Hey Hammer, if you don't mind me asking, what school do you teach at?
 
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