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Gaseous Clay

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WOW! Shame on the person who "performed" the spinal. Hopefully he/she is no longer in practice. We all make mistakes and as tough as it is to admit it, you gotta come clean.
 
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nimbus

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the part I find most fascinating is that the needle is in the vertebral body, not the spinous process. How the hell did they bury it that deep?

That is probably why it broke off too, because it was embedded deep in bone.
 
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Newtwo

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Must have been a day 1 resident doing it.
They must have actually used a hammer to embed it that deep. How did the spinal ever work?

On the flip side everyone involved is culpable from anesthesia to OB to neuro to the needle manufacturers!
 
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This is unbelievable (if true).

The fact that the person didn't feel the Dural pop (on EITHER side) with a 17 gauge Tuohy is unreal.

And then to not notice the needle when you take it out??? Oh wait, my 9 cm needle is now only 4cm. What happened?

Also agree with above comments about taking 14 years to get imaging to find out source of back pain.

At least she didn't get an MRI............

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chocomorsel

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This is unbelievable (if true).

The fact that the person didn't feel the Dural pop (on EITHER side) with a 17 gauge Tuohy is unreal.

And then to not notice the needle when you take it out??? Oh wait, my 9 cm needle is now only 4cm. What happened?

Also agree with above comments about taking 14 years to get imaging to find out source of back pain.

At least she didn't get an MRI............

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Maybe the MRI would have helped by sucking it out! Totally trying to read about medicine but so bored. I am on here way too much.
 

pgg

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BS: between 2003 and 2017 nobody took an x-ray of her spine while she was supposedly having invalidating back pain? Please...
This is unbelievable (if true).

The fact that the person didn't feel the Dural pop (on EITHER side) with a 17 gauge Tuohy is unreal.

And then to not notice the needle when you take it out??? Oh wait, my 9 cm needle is now only 4cm. What happened?

Also agree with above comments about taking 14 years to get imaging to find out source of back pain.

At least she didn't get an MRI............
It's an odd story. Other news articles suggest there was a failed spinal attempt (presumably followed by GA for the section?) so probably not a Tuohy, despite the word "epidural" in the linked article's title.

If it's a spinal needle, it's hard to imagine how it would be possible to embed one of those flimsy 25 g things that far into a vertebral body. I wouldn't expect a fragment to migrate into a bone.

No imaging done for 14 years? Also odd. I'm surprised anybody could get through any appointment or ER visit anywhere without getting at least plain films done. And with her neurologic symptoms, you'd think she'd have had an MRI done pretty early on.

I would think surgical removal would be a high priority, given the needle fragment's location and potential to cause more damage. But another article reported on a news conference at which she stated her doctors told her it could not be removed.

I wonder if she had a PDPH.


(My .sig applies more than ever; I have no knowledge of this case beyond what has been reported in the news.)
 

epidural man

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Do you think that it is possible that the needle got wedged in further over the years? That with motion, the needle worked its way deeper into the bone?

I also wonder if it isn't in bone - but somehow is right at the endplate (so between bone/disc).

I can't imagine why surgery couldn't be done. I have seen tumors wrapped around nerve roots successfully removed without neurological issues. I bet it would pull right out (with a little tug).

I'm so curious to know the rest of this story. It is so very odd.
 
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dr doze

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It is not credible that this wasn't appreciated by the person doing the procedure at the time. They simply didn't have the stones to admit what happened and demonstrated total disregard for the patient by not speaking up. They "got away with it" for at least 14 years. It is even possible that the event took place at one of her earlier deliveries. Nothing about the anesthetic history listed.
 

pgg

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Do you think that it is possible that the needle got wedged in further over the years? That with motion, the needle worked its way deeper into the bone?

I also wonder if it isn't in bone - but somehow is right at the endplate (so between bone/disc).
Again, I would doubt migration INTO bone is a possibility. Not exactly the path of least resistance. And she's young with presumably healthy, dense bone.

The cartoon illustration (worth noting - the artist was surely commissioned by her attorney) shows the needle in the vertebral body, but it's hard to tell exactly where the needle is from the two CT slices in the tiny down-rez'd thumbnails. It could be just above the vertebral body, which makes more sense if this is a spinal needle. Because I just can't believe that a 25 g spinal needle could be driven into bone like that. Maybe a 22 g Quincke / cutter? Still hard to believe.

Breaking one of those needles is a feat in and of itself. I wonder if they sheared it at the end of the introducer? I sometimes see people try to redirect the introducer without completely pulling the spinal needle back into it. I can easily imagine damaging and weakening the needle by doing that a few times.

I can't imagine why surgery couldn't be done. I have seen tumors wrapped around nerve roots successfully removed without neurological issues. I bet it would pull right out (with a little tug).

I'm so curious to know the rest of this story. It is so very odd.
Well, they went straight to a press conference (also odd) so it seems likely they'll keep the media updated.
 

dannyboy1

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It is not credible that this wasn't appreciated by the person doing the procedure at the time. They simply didn't have the stones to admit what happened and demonstrated total disregard for the patient by not speaking up. They "got away with it" for at least 14 years. It is even possible that the event took place at one of her earlier deliveries. Nothing about the anesthetic history listed.
This. If she has ever had more than one neuraxial everyone involved will be pointing fingers. Also the statute will have most definitely expired
 

dr doze

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This. If she has ever had more than one neuraxial everyone involved will be pointing fingers. Also the statute will have most definitely expired


Actually no. Statute of limitations usually starts when there is a cognizable event. I.e., when a patient should have known there was a problem. The statute almost certainly STARTED the day that the patient found out that there was a broken needle in her back. Not the day the needle broke off in her back.
 
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