What to do if medicine does not work out?

[Dral]

DJ
Chef
Photographer/Designer/Artist
Construction worker/builder
Mechanic/Auto restoration

Those are things I would do. Maybe all at the same time.

Medicine's working out for me. Culinary school would be totally cool though.

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[Strigon]

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-management-consultants-make-so-much-2013-11

Your pedigree matters dude. The big firms hire people from Ivies because their clients know their junior consultants do the bulk of the work, so they want to give the impression of hiring the best and the brightest. Can you become a junior consultant from a no-name undergrad? Yeah, after years of work experience or obtaining a top MBA. You ain't doing it out of undergrad from Podunk U, or after an MBA from Nowhere State.

Yeah, I'll agree with Mad Jack. I'm at the University of Arizona, and there's only one (repeat: ONE) guy that the business school ever sent to McKinsey. The catch? This guy did a triple major in Math, MIS, and Finance, had a 4.0, and was insanely driven. The things this guy did while in undergrad was unbelievable, and certainly exceeded the workload of pre-med undergrads and pretty much any other student at the U of A. McKinsey took this guy because he had the drive to exceed all possible expectations and made as many opportunities for himself as he could. For the mortal students, it's highly unlikely that one makes it into a top firm without copious amounts of work experience or an MBA from a top-tier program. Consulting for smaller firms is more within reason, especially if one has knowledge and a skill set within a specific niche that is not prevalent in that firm's pool of consultants.

Part of selling a service is the appeal that is associated with it by consumers. Being able to say they take the best and the brightest makes these firms exceptionally attractive to high profile clients, and so at top firms, there is a profusion of consultants from top business schools, and typically only one or two like my U of A guy.

 

[Petrichor1]

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-management-consultants-make-so-much-2013-11

Your pedigree matters dude. The big firms hire people from Ivies because their clients know their junior consultants do the bulk of the work, so they want to give the impression of hiring the best and the brightest. Can you become a junior consultant from a no-name undergrad? Yeah, after years of work experience or obtaining a top MBA. You ain't doing it out of undergrad from Podunk U, or after an MBA from Nowhere State.

yea I see your point, the connections offered to have people gearing early for these positions certainly becomes common practice at well-known unis.

 

[Petrichor1]

Yeah, I'll agree with Mad Jack. I'm at the University of Arizona, and there's only one (repeat: ONE) guy that the business school ever sent to McKinsey. The catch? This guy did a triple major in Math, MIS, and Finance, had a 4.0, and was insanely driven. The things this guy did while in undergrad was unbelievable, and certainly exceeded the workload of pre-med undergrads and pretty much any other student at the U of A. McKinsey took this guy because he had the drive to exceed all possible expectations and made as many opportunities for himself as he could. For the mortal students, it's highly unlikely that one makes it into a top firm without copious amounts of work experience or an MBA from a top-tier program. Consulting for smaller firms is more within reason, especially if one has knowledge and a skill set within a specific niche that is not prevalent in that firm's pool of consultants.

Part of selling a service is the appeal that is associated with it by consumers. Being able to say they take the best and the brightest makes these firms exceptionally attractive to high profile clients, and so at top firms, there is a profusion of consultants from top business schools, and typically only one or two like my U of A guy.

well I must have not known this disparity had you not pointed this out. I think a lot of people I know from my uni have gone onto McKinsey and even Sachs, so there must be a huge connection. Guess my advice would only apply to top unis that have have great business programs then and I was under this impression that being a consultant isn't terribly too hard if you put the right effort in.

 

[Mad Jack]

well I must have not known this disparity had you not pointed this out. I think a lot of people I know from my uni have gone onto McKinsey and even Sachs, so there must be a huge connection. Guess my advice would only apply to top unis that have have great business programs then and I was under this impression that being a consultant isn't terribly too hard if you put the right effort in.

Yeah- at the end of the day, being a consultant isn't a viable path for 99.99% of undergrads.

 

[Ad2b]

Yeah- at the end of the day, being a consultant isn't a viable path for 99.99% of undergrads.

Deloitte
KPMG
Cap Gemini
Gartner
Forrester
PwC
EY

There's also a bunch of middle tier firms. Salaries for grads with decent GPAs, depending on region: $65k+ to $225+ for sr manager; partner $300k+ - our entering associates (lowest level) were paid on average about $65 to 75k, not in the NE but middle of country.

McKinsey has the name as does Bain but, the bulk of consulting is NOT done by those two, it is done by the others.

 

[Dr. Bob Doe]

Keep trying to get into med school....unless you get like a 1.5 GPA you'll eventually get in.

Will you eventually get in though?

 

[efle]

Didn't check if this has already been thrown out there, but podiatry seems to be some kind of well kept secret. Yeah, feet are gross, but so is a lot of what MDs deal with.

Median income $121,000

median entering MCAT of ~22 and median sGPA of 3.1

Absolutely crazy! How that field is not a lot more competitive is beyond me

 

[Mad Jack]

Didn't check if this has already been thrown out there, but podiatry seems to be some kind of well kept secret. Yeah, feet are gross, but so is a lot of what MDs deal with.

Median income $121,000

median entering MCAT of ~22 and median sGPA of 3.1

Absolutely crazy! How that field is not a lot more competitive is beyond me

Lack of residencies, lack of jobs, etc.

 

[Petrichor1]

Yeah- at the end of the day, being a consultant isn't a viable path for 99.99% of undergrads.

I wouldn't make it feel impossible though...my undergrad isn't even an ivy let alone top 10.

 

[Mad Jack]

I wouldn't make it feel impossible though...my undergrad isn't even an ivy let alone top 10.

It's far more unlikely than becoming a physician for most people was kind of my point.

 

[efle]

Lack of residencies, lack of jobs, etc.

Don't like 7/8 people match? And bls says 3.4% unemployment. I mean seriously, a 30th percentile MCAT is competitive?? It should at least be more competitive than it is

 

[GrapesofRath]

Didn't check if this has already been thrown out there, but podiatry seems to be some kind of well kept secret. Yeah, feet are gross, but so is a lot of what MDs deal with.

Median income $121,000

median entering MCAT of ~22 and median sGPA of 3.1

Absolutely crazy! How that field is not a lot more competitive is beyond me

The attrition rates are also absurdly high in these programs. Almost Caribbean level.

Pharmacy IMO despite all the recent qualms about not finding jobs is a far more secure job with a far lower attrition rate and relatively similar salary prospects.

 

[efle]

The attrition rates are also absurdly high in these programs. Almost Caribbean level.

Pharmacy IMO despite all the recent qualms about not finding jobs is a far more secure job with a far lower attrition rate and relatively similar salary prospects.

Did not consider attrition! And that's going to be impossible to find data on I bet :/

 

[GrapesofRath]

Did not consider attrition! And that's going to be impossible to find data on I bet :/

I remember googling it and finding it around 30-40% attrition rates at a number of programs.

Honestly if medicine doesn't work out the top few options in the science fields for many people are
a) pharmacy school. 120k, jobs are getting more saturated but if you are on top of things and don't just wait until you graduate to try to get your first work experience, you should still be mostly fine.
b) optometry school. Similar things as what I said to pharmacy apply here.
c) PA school: work for a couple years in health related fields, get in and its 2 year program and then you get to work in a clinical setting making 95k working with physicians every day.
d) anesthesia assistant school: very solid pay, only 2 years of training I believe. Get to work with physicians everyday.
e) Pathology Assistant: 75k I believe is the median salary, work with physicians everyday.

 

[efle]

I remember googling it and finding it around 30-40% attrition rates at a number of programs.

Honestly if medicine doesn't work out the top few options in the science fields for many people are
a) pharmacy school. 120k, jobs are getting more saturated but if you are on top of things and don't just wait until you graduate to try to get your first work experience, you should still be mostly fine.
b) optometry school. Similar things as what I said to pharmacy apply here.
c) PA school: work for a couple years in health related fields, get in and its 2 year program and then you get to work in a clinical setting making 95k working with physicians every day.
d) anesthesia assistant school: very solid pay, only 2 years of training I believe. Get to work with physicians everyday.
e) Pathology Assistant: 75k I believe is the median salary, work with physicians everyday.

I think for a lot of people the biggest alternative science option is PhD/research! And then maybe down for f) stuff like radio tech

 

[GrapesofRath]

I think for a lot of people the biggest alternative science option is PhD/research! And then maybe down for f) stuff like radio tech

True although with research again your talking about a particularly significant attrition rate.

 

[Strigon]

I'm thinking of getting a team together to rob banks in case med school doesn't pan out. Still looking for a wheelman.

 

[Mad Jack]

Don't like 7/8 people match? And bls says 3.4% unemployment. I mean seriously, a 30th percentile MCAT is competitive?? It should at least be more competitive than it is

That still leaves 12.5% of graduates with no residency and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Also, feet are groce.

 

[p0gono]

True although with research again your talking about a particularly significant attrition rate.

And the pay is pretty darn low for 10+ years unless you go industry.

 

[StudyLater]

Didn't check if this has already been thrown out there, but podiatry seems to be some kind of well kept secret. Yeah, feet are gross, but so is a lot of what MDs deal with.

Median income $121,000

median entering MCAT of ~22 and median sGPA of 3.1

Absolutely crazy! How that field is not a lot more competitive is beyond me

The road can be just as long as being a doc; residencies 2-4 years. I don't see the angle. Yeah sure you could start a pp and do pretty darn well but you can too as a doc and you don't have to start out @ 100k.

 

[StudyLater]

I'm thinking of getting a team together to rob banks in case med school doesn't pan out. Still looking for a wheelman.

I'll buy the nun masks and bleach the bullets.

 

[efle]

The road can be just as long as being a doc; residencies 2-4 years. I don't see the angle. Yeah sure you could start a pp and do pretty darn well but you can too as a doc and you don't have to start out @ 100k.

Hah, the angle is "I have a 3.1 GPA and a 22 MCAT, no real shot at DO or MD". I don't think anyone in their right mind would choose it over doc unless they have a foot fetish

 

[StudyLater]

Hah, the angle is "I have a 3.1 GPA and a 22 MCAT, no real shot at DO or MD". I don't think anyone in their right mind would choose it over doc unless they have a foot fetish

Ah right. But PA maybe? That'd be much shorter. And if you could do better on the GRE then CRNA/AA may not be out of the question.

And do pods compete with ortho? Or does no one else in the physician ranks really do feet?

 

[efle]

I think it's mostly stuff like severely ingrown toenail surgery that's not near the level of stuff orthos spend their time on
I'm sure a lot of it overlaps with what an informed GP could help with too, recommending treatments for plantar fasciitis or bunion etc, and then the more extreme treatments for these like surgery would be best handled by a pod

 

[Spinach Dip]

Can't believe no one's mentioned DVM yet.

 

[efle]

Can't believe no one's mentioned DVM yet.

I feel like switching from animals to people or vice versa is HUGE though. Like there a lot of things I would do before looking at animal based careers

 

[Spinach Dip]

I feel like switching from animals to people or vice versa is HUGE though. Like there a lot of things I would do before looking at animal based careers

Seems to me it would be an easier change to make than dentistry or podiatry. But maybe my view is different than others'.