What type of publication is a 'thesis' or 'dissertation'?

[Smashingdude]

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Hey everyone,

As a european IMG, we are required to complete a thesis at the end of 6 year for our degree. I did research and then compiled a thesis over a period of 7 months or so. I have included my involvement in the Experience section under Research. However, I don't know what kind of publication my thesis really is.

My thesis was reviewed by a panel of University judges, and then gets a score, and incorporated in the library (and I think gets an abstract in a University journal). For now I included it as a 'Scientific Monograph'. Is this correct, or should I include it as some other type of publication. I also gave an oral presentation for it, and I have listed that as a separate entity.

Thanks

 

[Smashingdude]

Anyone please????

 

[gutonc]

It's not a publication. Just include it in your research section and call it good.

 

[Smashingdude]

I've included it as research. But doesnt it qualify to be a 'Scientific Monograph' and I could list it as publications as well?

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it.

 

[gutonc]

Is it listed in PubMed? If so, list it as a publication.

I didn't list my PhD thesis as a publication because that's just stupid. Do whatever you want.

 

[AMEHigh]

Was it published in an academic peer-reviewed journal outside of your university?

If not, then I wouldn't list it under publications and I've never heard my friends talk about putting their Masters or PhD thesis there either.

 

[Smashingdude]

Thanks for your input.

Our thesis does get a tracking/catalogue number, but I guess you are right. It isn't published for peer-review so doesn't qualify as such.

What about articles/project that I wrote/worked on for coursework that didn't get published? I included them as 'Other Articles', so as not to upsell myself. Do you think that's alright?

Thanks once again.

 

[Winged Scapula]

What about articles/project that I wrote/worked on for coursework that didn't get published? I included them as 'Other Articles', so as not to upsell myself. Do you think that's alright?

Thanks once again.

No.

If it hasn't been published, it's not an "article".

 

[Smashingdude]

No.

If it hasn't been published, it's not an "article".

[/QUOTE]

They did get published in the local/regional/university journals, but not in pubmed or similar entity. Still not appropriate to list it as 'Other Article'?

And do the PD's actually go and try to search the publication online to verify?

Thanks once again.

 

[Dermione Granger]

They might check. I have had interviewers print out copies of my articles for discussion during interview.

And please list it as your publication... It looks too desperate...did u present any poster or talk?

 

[Winged Scapula]

They did get published in the local/regional/university journals, but not in pubmed or similar entity. Still not appropriate to list it as 'Other Article'?

And do the PD's actually go and try to search the publication online to verify?

Thanks once again.

I'm confused:

I was responding to your question about "articles I wrote for coursework" which "didn't get published". If it wasn't published, you can't list it as a publication,

When someone lists a medical publication, I assume it's something I can find on PubMed or similar entity, not a school newsletter/journal that isn't distributed to the outside world.

You should expect that some interviewers will do a lit search for your pubs.

FWIW, I think you are overthinking this.

 

[Smashingdude]

Thank you all for your input. Its heartwarming to have some help in this anxiety-provoking crazy application process!

They might check. I have had interviewers print out copies of my articles for discussion during interview.

And please list it as your publication... It looks too desperate...did u present any poster or talk?

I did an oral presentation for my thesis. That said, I am going to list my thesis as "Oral Presentation", and mention it in "Research Experience". It wasn't published in an online journal, so I think its not appropriate to list it as "Other Articles" or "Scintific Monograph", though I would have loved to put it as a publication. My publications are only 'Oral Presentations' that I gave in some scientific committies.

I'm confused:

I was responding to your question about "articles I wrote for coursework" which "didn't get published". If it wasn't published, you can't list it as a publication,

When someone lists a publication, I assume it's something I can find on PubMed, not a school newsletter/journal that isn't distributed to the outside world.

You should expect that some interviewers will do a lot search for your pubs.

FWIW, I think you are overthinking this.

Yes, I wrote many articles (Case Studies, Descriptive Studies, Observational studies), but all of them for University coursework, and they get published in local journals. As such you cant find them online, though I can probably get an index number for them. They didnt get published in PubMed or other known journals. Thats why I was listing them as 'Other Articles' and putting the publication name as the name of the discipline it was intended for, e.g 'The dilemma with vaccines', Public Health, 2009 . So you guys think this isnt really appropriate, and the PD will kick my ass for it?
As I concluded from your discussion Winged Scapula, (btw love the name ) I shouldn't include these as publications. I so wanted to, but . Should I put them under Research Experience, under the title as "Articles for University coursework", and list them separately? The only issue will be the time slot, I'll have to assign an entire time period of 3-4 years of med school.

Yes, I am overthinking, but being an IMG, we have to give our best shot! Anything can catch a PD's eyes, and will be our safe haven, or a trip to Hades underworld

 

[Winged Scapula]

I suspect that what you are calling "catching the PDs eye" will be seen as fraudulent.

You can't put work you did for a course under Research. That's not the intent. Doing literature searches for papers you've written for a course is not what is typically considered research.

Similarly, while you can list articles you've written that have appeared in a university journal, it should be clear that those were done as part of your course work and are not public domain. IMHO including papers you wrote for a medical school course as publication is pretty weak sauce.

All of this stuff is far down the line in terms of what US PDs are looking for. Your Step 1 and visa status and far and way much more important.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Include only stuff published in peer reviewed journals, not monographs.

And there are excellent journals that don't get indexed into medline/pubmed, so it is OK to list papers published in them.

 

[Law2Doc]

While i dont disagree with the advice givn here, i strongly disgree with the reasoning. PubMed is NOT the standard that determines what constitutes a Publication. Those of us who came from other fields often were extensively published and peer reviewed, yet may not have ever had anything listed in pubmed. Why? Because the "med" part of pub med means it's a very finite subset of "publications" out there. So to those saying it has to be in pubmed to be listed as a publication, that just silly. I agree with mercaptovizadeh above, there are tons if excellent peer reviewed journals out there that aren't in pubmed. In fact some of those indexed in pubmed are pretty lousy by comparison. And yes, PDs were impressed by them, notwithstanding. But I agree, papers written for school and theses, unless sent to a Peer reviewed journal and published, don't belong in the publications section. But not because they don't have a Pubmed number.

 

[Smashingdude]

Thank you all for clarifying the doubts. I am more oriented on what to do, and what not to.

I am going to utilize the privilege you guys have given me one last time, if you don't mind. I have done couple of Oral Presentations, and have listed them accordingly in the Publication section. Should I also mention what I did that resulted in that presentation in "Experience->Research" section? For e.g, I did a research on a new genetic analysis technique, then gave a presentation. Is it ok to list it under Research in the Experience section, and then as Oral Presentation in publication?

Thanks once again!

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of an Oral Presentation. Your "event" is only an Oral Presentation if you submitted it to some outside group, it was peer reviewed, and then selected for presentation. If you mean that you orally presented your thesis work to your committee, that isn't an oral presentation the way we mean it in the Publication section. Nor is "giving a presentation to your colleagues" an oral presentation.

I will agree with L2D, PubMed isn't "everything". Obviously someone applying from another field (like Law, Engineering, Education, or Business) might have plenty of academic work in those fields, published in respectable journals, that would count. But if were talking about medical / biological research, if the journal is not listed in PubMed it's pretty far down the totem pole.

 

[Smashingdude]

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of an Oral Presentation. Your "event" is only an Oral Presentation if you submitted it to some outside group, it was peer reviewed, and then selected for presentation. If you mean that you orally presented your thesis work to your committee, that isn't an oral presentation the way we mean it in the Publication section. Nor is "giving a presentation to your colleagues" an oral presentation.

I will agree with L2D, PubMed isn't "everything". Obviously someone applying from another field (like Law, Engineering, Education, or Business) might have plenty of academic work in those fields, published in respectable journals, that would count. But if were talking about medical / biological research, if the journal is not listed in PubMed it's pretty far down the totem pole.

Thanks for the insight.

Well, my presentations were first submitted as abstracts and then articles, then peer-reviewed and accepted by the organizing committee of the event, and then I was eligible to do an Oral Presentation. The only problem i that the committee was regional/local, and is listed as one of the main Societies/journals of the country. But its not listed in Pubmed as such. However, they were peer-reviewed, and I even won prizes for them. So that doesnt count to anything?

Also, lets say giving presentation as part of teaching med-students (sort of like Grand Rounds that you have in US), does that count as Oral Presentation?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

In the first case, that's totally fine. (Mostly) only full articles published in a journal are in PubMed. All of the meeting abstracts / posters / oral presentations are not. If you had to submit something for peer review and it was competitively selected, then that's an Oral Presentation and should absolutely be listed as such. Just because it was a regional meeting, it still counts. And if you won prizes for it, you should list that (usually under the awards/honors section).

Presenting things to medical students can be listed as an activity only.

Grand Rounds is an invited presentation -- would be listed. But then the audience is not just medical students.