What went wrong? Help!

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NegiGenerationZ

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Hi all
I am currently nearing the end of my cycle with minimal hope for admittance. I have asked medical students and doctors for help in what went wrong and they are baffled. I am hoping for some help. I apologize for the information overload in advance, but at this point I need to scrutinize absolutely everything.

2016-2017 cycle (What I submitted going in)

Race: Asian
CA resident
Sci GPA: 3.88 (This is my cum GPA, my Sci GPA is 3.98)
MCAT: 520
Graduated July 2016

EC
ER volunteering=150 hours
Radiology Volunteering=150 hours
Radiology shadowing= 100 hours
Insect Research=2000 hours + 1st author paper (recently rejected and revised for resubmission)
Biology TA= 300 hours for 3 quarters
Raising animal hobby=unknown but exceeds 9999 hours
Various outdoor hobbies= 1500 hours during college

I had my PS evaluated by several medical students and the consensus was that it was good. It is highly unlikely to be the deal breaker. Because of this, I do not think my secondaries were particularly bad as I did not have to do extensive revisions on my PS.

School List (This is particularily long, 34 schools total.)
Einstein, Boston U, Case Western, Columbia, Drexel, Duke, Geisel, Harvard, Hofstra, Sinai, Buffalo, Hopkins, Keck, Mayo, NYU, Feinberg, U Penn, Stanford, U Vermont, ALL UC SOM, Pritzker, U Colorado, U Mich, U Pitts, U Rochester, U Wisc, Wash U, Cornell, Yale

Interviews
I interviewed at Keck early in the cycle but was waitlisted. I then interviewed at Wash U in October and have not heard back. Given the trend indicated in the WashU thread, I don't think I will get accepted. I recently interviewed at Case and was rejected. I plan to ask for feedback if possible.

Suspicions: I don't think my interview skills are a major issue as some of my interviewers gave great responses. Furthermore, I expected more interviews to be honest, which points to something else as the issue. Nevertheless, I will work on them for the upcoming cycle. At this point, I am suspecting a LOR sunk me but I don't think my writers are that cruel. I don't know what to believe. It could be the lack of nonclinical volunteering, but I did not think it would impact me this much. I am working on this currently.

Current Status
Miserable, but working to improve my app.
Volunteering at a food distribution organization (expected to have 40 hours before I move back home)
Volunteering as a nature observer (basically I note and report changes in local wildlife areas, expected 30 hours)
Volunteering as an English tutor for foreign visitors (expected 40 hours before I move)
Increased insect research hours (3100+ total currently, expected 3500+ by June)
Radiology Volunteering (ended during app cycle, total 190 hours)
ER Volunteering (180 currently, expected 300~400 before June)

Once I move back, I will look for a more permanent non clinical volunteering and a job to help pay back loans. I plan to apply both DO and MD schools for the upcoming cycle.

Any help or suggestions for improvements would be highly appreciated. Thank you for the help. If there's any crucial information I missed, let me know I will gladly add it.
 
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your stats were definitely not the problem and your school list seems reasonable enough. However, I think nowadays, Adcoms are a bit careful about accepting high stats students. Why? I'm guessing because they're afraid Of what these stats might imply about that applicant's personality. I think you'll get in this cycle, I really do. But if you don't, next time around, I'd go out of my way to flaunt how much I care about helping others and how great my interpersonal skills are.
 
Luka75 said:
your stats were definitely not the problem and your school list seems reasonable enough. However, I think nowadays, Adcoms are a bit careful about accepting high stats students. Why? I'm guessing because they're afraid Of what these stats might imply about that applicant's personality. I think you'll get in this cycle, I really do. But if you don't, next time around, I'd go out of my way to flaunt how much I care about helping others and how great my interpersonal skills are.
Click to expand...
There's no way adcoms are all being turned off by OP's 3.88 and 520
 
Just to be really picky....10000+ hrs of animal husbandry? That's 5 yrs of 8hrs a day. Just saying it sounds like a "generous" recollection

Also, no DO apps? It seems like you were really confident and swung top heavy. I'm sorry bro/sis, this might have cost you a year
 
sb247 said:
Just to be really picky....10000+ hrs of animal husbandry? That's 5 yrs of 8hrs a day. Just saying it sounds like a "generous" recollection

Also, no DO apps? It seems like you were really confident and swung top heavy. I'm sorry bro/sis, this might have cost you a year
Click to expand...

OP may have applied top heavy but there is no reason to apply DO with a 3.9/37.
 
walloobi said:
There's no way adcoms are all being turned off by OP's 3.88 and 520
Click to expand...
Oh I don't think they are, that's not what I meant to say. I'm saying that when an applicant has stats like these, all the Adcom is likely to focus on during the interview is how personable of a Dr. he can be.
 
sb247 said:
Just to be really picky....10000+ hrs of animal husbandry? That's 5 yrs of 8hrs a day. Just saying it sounds like a "generous" recollection

Also, no DO apps? It seems like you were really confident and swung top heavy. I'm sorry bro/sis, this might have cost you a year
Click to expand...

Ack should have clarified better. It's been a hobby long before college that I continue to this day.
 
walloobi said:
Very top-heavy school list, and I'm guessing weak primary/secondary essays, weak LOR's, and weak interview skills. Everything else on your app looks extremely solid so I don't know what else it could be.
Click to expand...

It could be my interview skills, but I expected more than just 3 interviews with my stats and ECs, which lead me to believe it's something on my app since I'm primarily rejected pre-interview.
 
NegiGenerationZ said:
Ack should have clarified better. It's been a hobby long before college that I continue to this day.
Click to expand...
Honestly dude, If your interviews went as well and your LORs were as fine as you say, There's no reason why you shouldn't be sitting on 5 acceptances right now.
 
NegiGenerationZ said:
It could be my interview skills, but I expected more than just 3 interviews with my stats and ECs, which lead me to believe it's something on my app since I'm primarily rejected pre-interview.
Click to expand...
Well almost everyone is primarily rejected pre-interview, that's just how med school admissions work. Problems arise when 3 II's aren't successfully converted into at least one acceptance. Getting 3 II's means your application was relatively successful, especially since you got interviews at some great schools. I probably would have predicted closer to 5-8 II's for you based on your app, maybe even 10-12, which is why I think your essays and LOR's were probably pretty weak, but the fact that you got some II's means that nothing in your app was a deal breaker.
 
Lawper said:
OP may have applied top heavy but there is no reason to apply DO with a 3.9/37.
Click to expand...
No reason except the chance of going through an entire cycle and not matching....just saying cover your bases, you can always turn your nose up at DO once you hold an MD acceptance if that's how you roll
 
sb247 said:
No reason except the chance of going through an entire cycle and not matching....just saying cover your bases, you can always turn your nose up at DO once you hold an MD acceptance if that's how you roll
Click to expand...

State schools and reasonable mid and low tiers are good options. Having a good school list matters to maximize success, but that doesn't really justify applying in a separate application cycle with its own rules altogether. Long-term career goals also matter and the differences within MD schools are less significant than differences between MD vs DO.

If OP were a borderline applicant, i would agree to the suggestion of applying DO but they are not.
 
Luka75 said:
your stats were definitely not the problem and your school list seems reasonable enough. However, I think nowadays, Adcoms are a bit careful about accepting high stats students. Why? I'm guessing because they're afraid Of what these stats might imply about that applicant's personality. I think you'll get in this cycle, I really do. But if you don't, next time around, I'd go out of my way to flaunt how much I care about helping others and how great my interpersonal skills are.
Click to expand...

You're right. His MCAT and GPA are too high for medical school. OP go fail a semester and bring that down to a 3.7 if possible. Retake that MCAT and don't study at all.
 
LizzyM said:
I think that a LOR and/or lack of non-clinical volunteer service were the culprits here. I recommend waiting until 2018 to apply. Meanwhile, get a job and spend at least 2 hours/wk for 52 weeks on a community service activity that is not clinical.
Click to expand...

Many medical schools offer specific pages of advice for reapplicants, something I find few students look into. This would be true whether or not you are a specific reapplicant to that school. Below are links to a few and please note most say the most common mistake among reapplicants is applying again too soon

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ear-wamc-advice-please.1191695/#post-17595427
 
Top heavy list,
possible torpedo LOR,
poor interviewing skills if you are getting straight rejected post interviews.
Also your writing style seems to make you sound like a person who has no insight into their own short comings.

See if you can get assurances for the letters.
Practice interviewing
Do some extensive volunteering at a soup kitchen or with underserved populations.
Rewrite everything.

I would reapply after checking all the boxes. Don't let that MCAT expire though.
 
Along with the non medical volunteering I suggest shadowing more specialties. Get 3 or 4 more. And make sure your primary and secondary essays are good. Get someone to look at them.
 
Anyone who applies to Vermont and Buffalo and interviews at Keck and WashU did not fail to gain admission for applying too top heavy. The numbers here are good for any school in America. Once adcom's get past that, everything else comes into play and that's where things have gone wrong. To interview 3 times and have no waitlists suggests that the applicant is giving a poor impression. Something else is going on to get 3 top schools to offer interviews and the other 31 to offer nada.
 
Your volunteering looks weak
That's about the only mediocre part of your application. Otherwise you got a killer application..
Wow
This scenario gives me nightmares.. 0_0
 
LizzyM said:
Anyone who applies to Vermont and Buffalo and interviews at Keck and WashU did not fail to gain admission for applying too top heavy. The numbers here are good for any school in America. Once adcom's get past that, everything else comes into play and that's where things have gone wrong. To interview 3 times and have no waitlists suggests that the applicant is giving a poor impression. Something else is going on to get 3 top schools to offer interviews and the other 31 to offer nada.
Click to expand...
Correct me if I am wrong is it possible that op is getting lost in the sea of 518+3.8+ applicants to these schools and OP has no x-factor that would interest these schools plus no non clinical volunteering or volunteering with populations that are underserved . Wouldn't those deficiencies mean that OPs list is too top heavy.
 
libertyyne said:
Correct me if I am wrong is it possible that op is getting lost in the sea of 518+3.8+ applicants to these schools and OP has no x-factor that would interest these schools plus no non clinical volunteering or volunteering with populations that are underserved . Wouldn't those deficiencies mean that OPs list is too top heavy.
Click to expand...

OP is also an ORM
That probably also influenced admissions..
 
Am I the only one who picked up on the mega hours of insect research? Or just the only one blunt enough to point out that it could easily make you seem weird...

Clearly you're a very bright applicant, but you know how some of the stereotypes about extremely bright applicants who are interested in bugs play out -- to be blunt, poor social skills and a 'creepy' vibe. If your application did not make it clear that this is not who you are, then you may be paying the price for other people's assumptions.

My suggestion - spend your time doing activities that develop your social skills and demonstrate your humanity. Work with the elderly, children, disabled, veterans, etc. Go for compassion and human warmth since your intelligence is beyond question.
 
libertyyne said:
Not really. The impact of being ORM is overblown. It's something like half to a full MCAT point difference.and at OPs stats it doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
Sure it's a bit overblown on places like SDN, but the impact is undeniably significantly larger than 1 MCAT point. At OP's stats and his generally reasonable school list, yes it probably didn't matter though.

Inb4 this turns into another ORM debate.
 
md-2020 said:
Sure it's a bit overblown on places like SDN, but the impact is undeniably significantly larger than 1 MCAT point. At OP's stats and his generally reasonable school list, yes it probably didn't matter though.

Inb4 this turns into another ORM debate.
Click to expand...
The increase in acceptance rate for Asians with 3.8+/519 --> 3.8+/520 is actually quite close to the increase in acceptance rate from Asians with 3.8+/520 --> Blacks/Hispanics/Latinos with 3.8+/520 (it's around a 3-5% increase in both cases). Definitely not "undeniably significantly larger than 1 MCAT point." ORM & 520 is almost identical in acceptance rate to URM & 519 (low-mid 90's).
 
walloobi said:
The increase in acceptance rate for Asians with 3.8+/519 --> 3.8+/520 is actually quite close to the increase in acceptance rate from Asians with 3.8+/520 --> Blacks/Hispanics/Latinos with 3.8+/520 (it's around a 3-5% increase in both cases). Definitely not "undeniably significantly larger than 1 MCAT point." ORM & 520 is almost identical in acceptance rate to URM & 519 (low-mid 90's).
Click to expand...
Just looked it up
OP had a 4% higher chance if he was African American, 5% if hispanic, and had a .9% advantage over white applicants

What does this mean though? Absolutely nothing
I think those who get rejected at that level have other factors, maybe ECs, maybe poor interviews, etc

Also in one of the data samples ORMs were more likely to get in than Hispanic students at the highest possible stat.
(Outlier in data trends I guess)
 
Super judgmental person here!

What is your cGPA? You seem to spend lots of time with animals and love nature. How did you frame your PS? Are you a member of any animal right group? PETA? Activism? Are you vegan? How do you feel about animal research? Why was you paper rejected?
If you are one of those eco people, research centric schools have many reasons to reject you.
 
DokterMom said:
Am I the only one who picked up on the mega hours of insect research? Or just the only one blunt enough to point out that it could easily make you seem weird...

Clearly you're a very bright applicant, but you know how some of the stereotypes about extremely bright applicants who are interested in bugs play out -- to be blunt, poor social skills and a 'creepy' vibe. If your application did not make it clear that this is not who you are, then you may be paying the price for other people's assumptions.

My suggestion - spend your time doing activities that develop your social skills and demonstrate your humanity. Work with the elderly, children, disabled, veterans, etc. Go for compassion and human warmth since your intelligence is beyond question.
Click to expand...

I picked it up but I didn't want to post something along those lines
 
libertyyne said:
I did as well, but research is research right ?
Click to expand...

I mean, my current research is in organic chemistry, and chemists have a reputation for being insane. I don't know if it made a difference that my research is at least somewhat applicable to humans; versus insect research which is esoteric. I doubt that this one particular component of OP's app made a huge difference.

Perhaps it was a combination of perceived anti-social behavior throughout the app. Insect research, Writing Style, Maybe lukewarm LORs and Poor Interview Skills. Going 0 for 3 in interviews (not even a waitlist) indicates the applicant may have sub-par interviewing skills. Maybe the applicant gave off the impression they were just "riding" their high stats into med school. In the same vein, poor reasoning for wanting medicine and lack of demonstration of a desire to serve (marked by little non-clinical volunteering)

It seems likely that all the work in bio/animal sciences would give off the impression OP is a better fit for Veterinary School than Medical.

Or the commonly dreaded possibility is that this one applicant is just super unlucky.
 
Dr.Sticks said:
Maybe OP loves entomology..
Nothing weird about entomology...
Click to expand...

When was the last time you saw a flattering or even 'non-weird' portrayal of an entomologist on TV?
NOT that TV portrayals are fair or accurate, but they do shape the public perception...
(Or did I miss the sarcasm? I was raised by two physicists, so...)


Edited to combine:

"Perhaps it was a combination of perceived anti-social behavior throughout the app. Insect research, Writing Style, Maybe lukewarm LORs and Poor Interview Skills. Going 0 for 3 in interviews (not even a waitlist) indicates the applicant may have sub-par interviewing skills."

That's what I was thinking. Insect-triggered initial prejudice reinforced by high-stat 'robot?' bias not countered sufficiently by in-person warmth, charm and approachability.
 
DokterMom said:
When was the last time you saw a flattering or even 'non-weird' portrayal of an entomologist on TV?
NOT that TV portrayals are fair or accurate, but they do shape the public perception...
(Or did I miss the sarcasm? I was raised by two physicists, so...)


Edited to combine:

"Perhaps it was a combination of perceived anti-social behavior throughout the app. Insect research, Writing Style, Maybe lukewarm LORs and Poor Interview Skills. Going 0 for 3 in interviews (not even a waitlist) indicates the applicant may have sub-par interviewing skills."

That's what I was thinking. Insect-triggered initial prejudice reinforced by high-stat 'robot?' bias not countered sufficiently by in-person warmth, charm and approachability.
Click to expand...
I think it has more to do with lack of EC volunteering than being an Entomology nerd.
 
I'm still a bit hung up on the raising animals part. If you started raising these animals when you were 10, you're 23 now (not sure if that's accurate but guessing based on date of graduation), and you spent the same amount of time on these animals every single day for thirteen years (through middle school, high school, and now) it would be a bit over 1.5 hours/day. If that's the case, then I'd second the possibility that they thought you were more of the pre-vet type.
 
libertyyne said:
Correct me if I am wrong is it possible that op is getting lost in the sea of 518+3.8+ applicants to these schools and OP has no x-factor that would interest these schools plus no non clinical volunteering or volunteering with populations that are underserved . Wouldn't those deficiencies mean that OPs list is too top heavy.
Click to expand...

The applicant wasn't too top heavy, he was completely unprepared to apply. The application had a fatal deficiency that even the lower tier schools could not overlook. Volunteer service of a non-clinical nature is VERY important and its absence is a deal breaker.
 
Did you apply late in the cycle?
Also, nothing wrong with doing what you love - but you do need clinical volunteering experience
 
walloobi said:
There's no way adcoms are all being turned off by OP's 3.88 and 520
Click to expand...
She may come off as overly perfectionist. It's kinda the " 4.0 gpa's are a bit scary"
 
LizzyM said:
I think that a LOR and/or lack of non-clinical volunteer service were the culprits here. I recommend waiting until 2018 to apply. Meanwhile, get a job and spend at least 2 hours/wk for 52 weeks on a community service activity that is not clinical.
Click to expand...
Isn't the consensus that if you have clinical volunteering ( not work or shadowing) , then not having non clinical volunteering isn't a deal breaker? That seems soooo nitpicky of the AdComs...
 
mwsapphire said:
She may come off as overly perfectionist. It's kinda the " 4.0 gpa's are a bit scary"
Click to expand...

I don't think it's necessarily that. It is that PLUS a ton of research hours paired with mediocre clinical experiences and no nonclinical volunteering at all. It kind of speaks more to "lab rat" than doctor. The application being largely animal based can raise some eyebrows, I'm sure, but more the lack of experience with people did OP in.
 
Dr.Sticks said:
Your volunteering looks weak
That's about the only mediocre part of your application. Otherwise you got a killer application..
Wow
This scenario gives me nightmares.. 0_0
Click to expand...
YES! I made a thread about this! Situations like this freak me out.
 
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